Heisman Race

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Famboo28

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I don't understand this, how is Troy Smith higher than Brady in the heisman race. Brady has put up better stats and has played much harder opponents. Other than Texas and Penn State, Ohio State has been playing mid-majors.
 

NDFan78

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ESPN is IN LOVE with the buckeyes, it makes me sick. When he threw for less the 150 against Penn St them made it sound like it was the best performance they had ever seen. I agree I don't understand how he can be the front runner exept that he is undefeated.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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I don't understand this, how is Troy Smith higher than Brady in the heisman race. Brady has put up better stats and has played much harder opponents. Other than Texas and Penn State, Ohio State has been playing mid-majors.

Smith looks better.

The better question would be this:
Why is Smith rated above Garrett Wolfe?

Wolfe is by far and away the player that is "most outstanding college football player". Smith is on a winning team, so he gets points for that. Wolfe is the real deal...and truly different level of player.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=138215
 
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Indydomer

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Damn 353 against Ball State. I don't care who you play that is amazing.
 

leppycole

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ESPN is IN LOVE with the buckeyes, it makes me sick. When he threw for less the 150 against Penn St them made it sound like it was the best performance they had ever seen. I agree I don't understand how he can be the front runner exept that he is undefeated.


OSU will have 4 ESPN game days. TX,PSU,Iowa,Mich - that's not biased. It is the constant reward system for having a corrupt program. OSU + USC = ESPN Love.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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I don't understand this, how is Troy Smith higher than Brady in the heisman race. Brady has put up better stats and has played much harder opponents. Other than Texas and Penn State, Ohio State has been playing mid-majors.

Ummm...by the way, Brady has WORSE stats than Smith.

Troy Smith
101-148 = 68.2% cmp
1261 yards
8.52 average
15 TD
2 INT
7 sacks
Rating = 170.55

Brady Quinn
148-223 = 63.5% cmp
1634 yards
7.01 average
16 TD
4 INT
15 sacks
Rating = 141.66

More yards, does NOT equal better. If you want more yards there are more than a couple of guys with more than BQ.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Damn 353 against Ball State. I don't care who you play that is amazing.

People complain that he plays against crappy competition.

OK...how about those 171 yards against OSU??? 6.6 yard average...
Don't forget he ALSO got 114 yards receiving against the Suckeyes.
5 rec for 114 yards.

Now...tell me... Who is the REAL Heisman???
 

KMac151993

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The bottom line is in Troy Smith's biggest game this year he stepped up big and lead his team to victory in Brady's biggest game he turned the ball over and helped his team get pounded by Michigan.
 

marv81s

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not too mention a 70+ yard play called back on a holding call, and another 50+ yarder called back on a holding call, or he would have crushed LT's rushing record in a single game in NIU's game against Balll State.
 
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jerseyborn1971

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Brady has a rushing touchdown as well, so his total is actually 17 TD. I've seen his % slightly higher at over 64%. Passer rating? Nobody really understands how that is calculated anyway. If you go by that, Jamarcus Russel is the Heisman frontrunner. Sacks are more of a reflection of the o-line imo.

Smith has a better completion %
Brady has more TD's.
Brady has more yards.
Smith has more wins.
Brady has played 4 big ten schools, an ACC school and a Pac-10 school.
Smith has played Texas, Iowa, Penn St, NIU, Cincinatti & Bowling Green.

Bottom line: It's too early to tell anything. Both have had good games, both had a bad one. They are nearly identical in stats. One has 1 more win against lesser opposition. The Heisman isn't like the BCS. It doesn't matter where they rank now. That has no bearing on the final vote. We'll see who wins after the OSU-UM & ND-USC games at the end of the year. Those games may determine who wins.

Wolfe has no shot regardless what he does. And that's a shame.
 

jiggafini19

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Right now, it is Troy Smith's to win or lose.

Should he falter, Brady has the numbers to take it.

They should vote for this thing AFTER the bowl games.
 

jiggafini19

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Wolfe gets to play Iowa on national TV too.

He puts up some rushing yards on them, look out.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Wolfe is by far and away the player that is "most outstanding college football player". Smith is on a winning team, so he gets points for that. Wolfe is the real deal...and truly different level of player.

Reminds me of Warrick Dunn.
Watch out for the lil' uns. You can't SEE 'em !
See Arkansas' trick play against Auburn to confirm this fact for yourself.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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Wolfe gets to play Iowa on national TV too.

He puts up some rushing yards on them, look out.

Yup... NIU may be an average MAC team...but this kid Wolfe, he's amazing.

I have no doubt that he could torch Iowa for 200 yards. Iowa is a solid team, but Wolfe...man he is fast and shifty.

If Quinn does not get it, I want Wolfe to get it. He works his butt off and carries his team. And just imagine how cool it would be for a kid like that and his family. Everyone figures that you will never get noticed on a team like NIU...yet he's getting national attention. You can't help but be happy for him in that regard.
 
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NDAlumSon

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Watched his post-game interview.
What a nice, humble, young man he seems to be, too.
I wish him all the best.
 

BGIF

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The bottom line is in Troy Smith's biggest game this year he stepped up big and lead his team to victory in Brady's biggest game he turned the ball over and helped his team get pounded by Michigan.

And that's what Heisman voters remember as they ponder their ballots.

Smith is remembered leading his team to victory. Quinn is remembered dropping the ball from his hand untouched, jumping on the ball on the ground and it squirting free, scooped up by a defender and returned for a TD. A pick six would have been less damning as twice on the same play he didn't protect the ball.

Plays like that happen to great players but it's the kind of negative memory that sticks in people's minds.

There's still half a season to go and things can change but it the vote was taken today, I'd vote Smith over Quinn.
 

jiggafini19

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Garrett Wolfe went to Holy Cross High School here in Chicago (now known as Guerin Prep). He started out at Fenwick but wasn't fitting in, so transferred to Holy Cross. He really got his act together after having a rough go as a younger man.

More or less, the Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa types all thought he was too small.

Should Smith win games at Texas and Iowa, then defeat an unbeaten scUM for the Big Ten title and a BCS title birth, he's winning it. Quinn would have to surpass his numbers by leaps and bounds to get it.
 
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nthompson

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Interesting thread! Unfortunately, I sit and work with a Buckeye everyday! And I have to hear the Troy Smith crap and how he will win the Heisman. It would have been interesting to see if Troy could have pulled out the Michigan State win. I don't think he could and that is what makes a Heisman. You can mention Michigan all you want and it is certainly said a lot on this thread; however, America loves the “come-back, Rocky and Rudy” story – and that is what is great about ND, Weiss and Brady!

I am sure this year, the Heisman committee will be very careful to select a Heisman winner that is not involved with a corrupt program, like USC. Remember that the Heisman should be someone that not only is great on the field, but is also a respectable human being!

If Brady continues to rack-up the stats and pulls out the win at USC - he will win the Heisman! Because he is the true American story/spirit – one that works hard and never gives up!
 

nshope

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Wolfe has no shot regardless what he does. And that's a shame.

I disagree...if he breaks Barry Sanders' single season rushing record, his team wins the MAC, and makes a decent bowl game...I think he has a great shot. I don't see Troy Smith or Brady Quinn toppling ANY major NCAA records like that one this year.

Now, from an Irish fan standpoint...I don't see Wolfe breaking the record. His Iowa game will probably help to sway voters the most on his performance. If he puts up huge numbers on Iowa and comes close to the record, I still think he has a shot. However, I think Troy Smith is DUE to stumble and have a 3 interception game where Ohio State loses and thus, opens the door for Brady to walk up and snatch the Heisman after a crushing defeat of USC (in which Brady throws 5 TD's and 0 INT's).
 
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jerseyborn1971

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Too bad voters don't seem to remember the 2 int's and 78 yards Troy threw for against PSU until his "creative" 37 yard highlight. It's called a desperation pass. The receiver who got that open and stayed with the play should get most of the credit. Almost as bad as Flutie getting all of the credit for that heave he had against Miami. Does anyone ever mention the receiver who made that miracle happen?

tOSU defense carried Troy against PSU. He was garbage that day. If only ND's defense could have done the same for Brady with Michigan. Coming up big in big games doesn't make a Heisman Trophy winner. Coming up big in EVERY game does. That's why Wolfe should get more credit, consideration and attention.
 

marv81s

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if i had a vote, i would say, at this point, 1) garrett wolfe 2) Calvin Johnson 3) Adrian Petersen 4) Robert Meachem 5) Brady Quinn
 

BGIF

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Too bad voters don't seem to remember the 2 int's and 78 yards Troy threw for against PSU until his "creative" 37 yard highlight. It's called a desperation pass. The receiver who got that open and stayed with the play should get most of the credit. Almost as bad as Flutie getting all of the credit for that heave he had against Miami. Does anyone ever mention the receiver who made that miracle happen? ...

His name was Phelan. Gerry Phelan. I saw the game. "It's called a desperation pass." Actually is was a play in BC Coach Bicknell's playbook. One BC had run 3 times before that season, once successfully.

"The receiver who got that open and stayed with the play should get most of the credit." The play was designed for all the receivers to flood one area of the end zone AND for Phelan to be the primary receiver. He's the guy that was supposed to go up for the ball. If he couldn't catch it, he was supposed to tip it to one of the other receivers situated strategically as they had PRACTICED throughout the season.

Miami had the play scouted but they underestimated the ability of Flutie to throw the ball long INTO a 30 mph wind. The Cane defenders bunched up where they expected the ball could be thrown - short of the endzone.

The fact that it was the last play of the game, that Flutie was being chased around the backfield by an All-American defender, that he was back at his 37, in a 30 mph wind, and he threw a strike, not a "heave" 60 yards downfield to the designated receiver - not just any receiver was remarkable. Flutie executed the play as they practiced it, only this time under great duress, adverse conditions, and time pressure. That was excellence. That was the quintessential Heisman moment!

If Phelan had dropped the ball more people would remember him, like ND fans remember the interception Bercich didn't make in the '93 BC game, or FSU fans with "Wide Right".
 

sonomairishfan

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I don't understand this, how is Troy Smith higher than Brady in the heisman race. Brady has put up better stats and has played much harder opponents. Other than Texas and Penn State, Ohio State has been playing mid-majors.

the big difference is that Troy Smith won against Texas. Brady has not beat a great team this year. PSU is decent but by no means good. GT is hopefully going to end up getting respect, but the rest of our schedule hasn't been all that challenging. UM is one of the best teams in the nation but look what he did against them, he stunk up the field. Against MSU he was very bad in the 1st half, that is a strike against him as well.

he needs to keep playing the way he has the last two weeks for the rest of the season. he also needs a huge game agains an unbeaten USC. it wouldn't hurt if Troy Smith would lose once or twice as well.
 

LOVEMYIRISH

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With or without Manningham, the constant is Lloyd Carr.

I don't think scUM goes into Columbus and wins. I just don't see it. The Buckeye defense is too good and Troy Smith has matured into a very good passer and leader.

Should tOSU win that game, Smith wins.

Normally, I would think Tressel would kill Carr. But i don't see that this year. Look in the eyes of the UM players. They are hungry, mad, and on a mission. They play with poise and power. They are dreaming every day about going into the Horseshoe and exacting revenge. They EXPECT to win.

UM is one tough team this year. I honestly don't expect OSU to win...
 

BGIF

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... he needs to keep playing the way he has the last two weeks for the rest of the season. he also needs a huge game agains an unbeaten USC. it wouldn't hurt if Troy Smith would lose once or twice as well.


All of the above.
 

jiggafini19

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Troy Smith is not getting the rushing yards this year because he's staying back in the pocket and throwing the ball. This, too, could prevent him from winning the Heisman should everything else be equal.

That horrible day against Michigan is going to stick out in a lot of people's minds. Maybe Michigan will belt Troy Smith around a little bit, too. That could open the door for Quinn should ND run the table.
 

sonomairishfan

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Troy Smith is not getting the rushing yards this year because he's staying back in the pocket and throwing the ball. This, too, could prevent him from winning the Heisman should everything else be equal.

That horrible day against Michigan is going to stick out in a lot of people's minds. Maybe Michigan will belt Troy Smith around a little bit, too. That could open the door for Quinn should ND run the table.

i would agree that the UM game will stick in voters minds. i know that i won't forget about it until we beat them up a little.

i wouldn't be surprised if UM gives tOSU all they can handle. i would say they will win until their reciever went under the knife. that takes alot of power from the UM offense now.
 

jiggafini19

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With or without Manningham, the constant is Lloyd Carr.

I don't think scUM goes into Columbus and wins. I just don't see it. The Buckeye defense is too good and Troy Smith has matured into a very good passer and leader.

Should tOSU win that game, Smith wins.
 
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