George Zimmerman Trial

[irishpat183]

Because one minute he was walking home to eat his skittles and a few short minutes later he was dead in the street? Seems like the kind of bad break that would elicit some sympathy from most people.

If the kid was robbing a store and got shot I could understand the apathy. He wasn't, though.

Also, you seem to have some things backwards. For instance, a person wouldn't not believe Zimmerman's story because they are outraged that he was acquitted. That makes zero sense. People are outraged he was acquitted because they find his story implausible.

He was walking home, high as kite, eating his skittles and sippin on some lean, casing houses to rob,....See how I can change the feel of this as well to suit GZ's side?

And there is nothing "implausible" about GZ's story. You just don't believe him because of your poltical affliation and what the news has been telling you. The same news that was proven to be irresponsible from the begining. Sorry if you're the one with the crediblity issue now.

And that's what it breaks down too.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

...He was doing nothing wrong...

Well, he did keep punching someone in the face.

 

[GoIrish41]

What does whether or not Zimmerman knew he was staying there have to do with anything? I said he should have gone home and gone inside, you said that you would not have led him back to the place where you were staying, with only a 12 year old boy at home. Yet Martin did just that. If he was really concerned about his safety, why stay outside? Why not put a locked door between you and the guy following you? And people think Zimmerman's words don't make sense?

Are you saying that he should have walked to Miami from Sandord? Miami is where his home was, his father's girlfriend lived in Sanford and he was visiting or "staying". You said he was right in front of the house, but did Zimmerman know that? He didn't know Trayvon and that, presumably, was why he was following him so how could Zimmerman know he was right in front of the house where "he was staying?" Again, I wouldn't let a creep know where I "was staying." Unless of course you believe that he stood in front of the house and yelled, "I'm staying here!"

 

[irishpat183]

Well, he did keep punching someone in the face.

They just don't get it......Nothing else matters once the fists started flying.

It's just stupidity.

 

[GoIrish41]

Edit: Guh, I can't get an image to work. I hate the interweb.

The gun. So you think they struggled over a gun with such a small surface area to grab without another shot being fired?

Why is that so difficult to believe? The fight didn't last very long before the fatal shot.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

I don't get all this "should" talk. A lot of people "should" do a lot of stuff differently. As far as I'm concerned Martin "should" have done whatever he wanted to.

Martin's only mistake was not knowing that when you start throwing haymakers on someone's face, they might shoot you.

 

[Woneone]

Are you saying that he should have walked to Miami from Sandord? Miami is where his home was, his father's girlfriend lived in Sanford and he was visiting or "staying". You said he was right in front of the house, but did Zimmerman know that? He didn't know Trayvon and that, presumably, was why he was following him so how could Zimmerman know he was right in front of the house where "he was staying?" Again, I wouldn't let a creep know where I "was staying."

So what was the plan? To knock him unconcious, right outside the house he's staying, and then stroll inside? Why confront him there?

You're right, Zimmerman didn't know where he lived, which makes it even more odd that he didn't just lose Zimmerman (remember, there were 4 minutes) and get to the house. It's not like he knew where he was going.

But he waited at the location that "Zimmerman didn't know" and confronted him there.

That makes no sense what-so-ever.

 

[connor_in]

The outrage here was that the police knew the identity of the shooter and appeared content to take him at his word and not investigate the incident.

Wait...the police did not investigate the incident? How did they ever get around to charging GZ or gathering any evidence. No wonder no one brought charges for a while until Angela Corey went around the SOP way to do it.

 

[GoIrish41]

So what was the plan? To knock him unconcious, right outside the house he's staying, and then stroll inside? Why confront him there?

You're right, Zimmerman didn't know where he lived, which makes it even more odd that he didn't just lose Zimmerman (remember, there were 4 minutes) and get to the house. It's not like he knew where he was going.

But he waited at the location that "Zimmerman didn't know" and confronted him there.

That makes no sense what-so-ever.

The plan was likely to get the gun away from him.

 

[kmoose]

You wan an answer for your question? He shouldn't have had to go into the house. He was doing nothing wrong. You want to place blame on a 17yo for making a questionable decision ( that he never should have been put in a place to make) but you seem to be giving a pass to the horrible decision making of an adult. That makes no sense.

No. I want people to realize that Zimmerman is not the only person who could have handled this situation differently. He certainly could have. But he wasn't the only one guilty of poor decision making.

 

[GoIrish41]

So what was the plan? To knock him unconcious, right outside the house he's staying, and then stroll inside? Why confront him there?

You're right, Zimmerman didn't know where he lived, which makes it even more odd that he didn't just lose Zimmerman (remember, there were 4 minutes) and get to the house. It's not like he knew where he was going.

But he waited at the location that "Zimmerman didn't know" and confronted him there.

That makes no sense what-so-ever.

And, I just looked at the map. He was several condo units away from right outside the house he's staying at. Interactive: Map of Trayvon Martin shooting death | MiamiHerald.com

 

[irishpat183]

The plan was likely to get the gun away from him.

Then his a$$ deserved to get shot. Because that's idiotic.

 

[GoIrish41]

Then his a$$ deserved to get shot. Because that's idiotic.

What is the smart thing to do, stand there and let someone shoot you? Run and let someone shoot you? The guy was stalking him and Martin assumed bad intentions when a gun was drawn ... go figure.

 

[kmoose]

And, I just looked at the map. He was several condo units away from right outside the house he's staying at. Interactive: Map of Trayvon Martin shooting death | MiamiHerald.com

His girlfriend testified that Martin was right outside of his dad's fiancée's condo, at one point, and she told him to just go in, but he said he wasn't going to go in.

 

[connor_in]

The plan was likely to get the gun away from him.

So GZ had his gun out in front of him while stalking TM throughout the neighborhood...I must have missed where that was stated as fact somewhere

 

[Cackalacky]

I don't get all this "should" talk. A lot of people "should" do a lot of stuff differently. As far as I'm concerned Martin "should" have done whatever he wanted to.

Martin's only mistake was not knowing that when you start throwing haymakers on someone's face, they might shoot you.

Yes according to the NRA, had Martin had a gun, all of this could have been avoided because only a good guy with a gun can stop a bad guy with a gun.

 

[irishpat183]

What is the smart thing to do, stand there and let someone shoot you? Run and let someone shoot you? The guy was stalking him and Martin assumed bad intentions when a gun was drawn ... go figure.

So now we're assuming that GZ was waiving the gun at TM? Again...you have nothing. You're just throwing **** against the wall. It's dumb.

TM reached for the gun during the fight. I guarantee that had GZ pulled the gun on him prior, there would've NEVER been a fight. Unless TM was a moron, and if that's the case, he got shoot for being an idiot and going after someone with a gun pointed at him.

TM could've run. I'm willign to bet that if TM ran, GZ wasn't going to shoot him. This isn't the streets of Chicago.

 

[kmoose]

Are you saying that he should have walked to Miami from Sandord? Miami is where his home was, his father's girlfriend lived in Sanford and he was visiting or "staying". You said he was right in front of the house, but did Zimmerman know that? He didn't know Trayvon and that, presumably, was why he was following him so how could Zimmerman know he was right in front of the house where "he was staying?" Again, I wouldn't let a creep know where I "was staying." Unless of course you believe that he stood in front of the house and yelled, "I'm staying here!"

It's funny how assuming an unknown kid slowly passing through your neighborhood, wearing the same kind of attire as it has been reported that some robbers have worn, is flat out racist and crazy. But assuming that some middle-aged guy who appears to be following you is up to no good is just fine, and perfectly normal?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Wait...the police did not investigate the incident? How did they ever get around to charging GZ or gathering any evidence. No wonder no one brought charges for a while until Angela Corey went around the SOP way to do it.

I don't get the sarcasm font here. This is pretty much what I'm saying. I'm not even making inferences about why the case was handled the way it was (although those are there to be made and many people have made them). I'm just sticking to the facts that a kid was shot and they knew who the shooter was, and without conducting a rigorous investigation - which they couldn't have possibly done the night of the shooting - they decided and not to arrest Zimmerman, or even take him into custody and question him for the allowed period of time prior to filing formal charges. There is no escaping the appearance of impropriety there. To then look at a weak State's case as proof that the police acted properly is doubly insulting and infuriating, because if they had handled the case better from the jump the prosecution would have had an easier case to make.

No. I want people to realize that Zimmerman is not the only person who could have handled this situation differently. He certainly could have. But he wasn't the only one guilty of poor decision making.

We can agree on this point about both parties could have made better decisions, but it does sound like an awful lot of people on your side of this discussion are engaging in what amounts to victim blaming, based both on his actions that night and clearly irrelevant information about the kid that has nothing to do with what happened that night (school suspensions, facebook photos, etc.).

 

[Irish Houstonian]

What is the smart thing to do, stand there and let someone shoot you? Run and let someone shoot you? The guy was stalking him and Martin assumed bad intentions when a gun was drawn ... go figure.

It's uncanny how your theory of the case just happens to be the scenario that most favors Martin, lack of evidence be damned.

Are you sure he wasn't carrying a puppy too? Now that we know Zimmerman made everything up, who's to say Martin wasn't?

 

[Cackalacky]

It's funny how assuming an unknown kid slowly passing through your neighborhood, wearing the same kind of attire as it has been reported that some robbers have worn, is flat out racist and crazy. But assuming that some middle-aged guy who is following you is up to no good is just fine, and perfectly normal?

FIFY. You do see the irony in this post don't you. Perception is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[irishpat183]

It's uncanny how your theory of the case just happens to be the scenario that most favors Martin, lack of evidence be damned.

Are you sure he wasn't carrying a puppy too? Now that we know Zimmerman made everything up, who's to say Martin wasn't?

GZ, a WHITE hispanic 250lb, ex-hells angels hitman, known racist, and generally just a "bad guy" according to Jet magazine.....Hunted down and killed in cold blood, 12-17 yr old Trayvon Martin. At the time, Martin was returing from a grocery store as he found a wallet full of money that belonged to one of the employees. Martin then made plans with the employee later that evening to deliever skittles and iced tea to a local homeless man that frequented the area....

 

[Cackalacky]

GZ, a WHITE hispanic 250lb, ex-hells angels hitman, known racist, and generally just a "bad guy" according to Jet magazine.....Hunted down and killed in cold blood, 12-17 yr old Trayvon Martin. At the time, Martin was returing from a grocery store as he found a wallet full of money that belonged to one of the employees. Martin then made plans with the employee later that evening to deliever skittles and iced tea to a local homeless man that frequented the area....

And now its ok for Rush Limbaugh to call anyone "n***a".......

 

[kmoose]

FIFY. You do see the irony in this post don't you. Perception is in the eye of the beholder.

I see that what you did was inject facts that were unknown at the time, into situation. It's known as Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

Fact: Zimmerman saw a person who fit the general description of robbers that had been active in the neighborhood, entering the neighborhood through a hedgerow. Zimmerman didn't know that the kid was staying there. He naturally followed him, to see what he was up to. That's the watch part of Neighborhood Watch. He assumed that Martin was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake, but the "watch" part was reasonable.

Fact: Martin noticed a guy who appeared to be following him. Martin assumed that the guy was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake.

So both parties made the mistake of assuming the worst of the other. THAT'S where, I believe, the racial aspect comes into play. I believe that they made their assumptions based largely on skin color. Or, more specifically, the contrast of the other person's skin color, in comparison to their own.

Had it been a white kid, Zimmerman probably still would have kept an eye on them, but maybe not followed them as far as he did.

Had Zimmerman been black, Martin probably would not have thought anything about the guy appearing to possibly be following him.

 

[Cackalacky]

I see that what you did was inject facts that were unknown at the time, into situation. It's known as Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

Fact: Zimmerman saw a person who fit the general description of robbers that had been active in the neighborhood, entering the neighborhood through a hedgerow. Zimmerman didn't know that the kid was staying there. He naturally followed him, to see what he was up to. That's the watch part of Neighborhood Watch. He assumed that Martin was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake, but the "watch" part was reasonable.

Fact: Martin noticed a guy who appeared to be following him. Martin assumed that the guy was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake.

So both parties made the mistake of assuming the worst of the other. THAT'S where, I believe, the racial aspect comes into play. I believe that they made their assumptions based largely on skin color. Or, more specifically, the contrast of the other person's skin color, in comparison to their own.

Had it been a white kid, Zimmerman probably still would have kept an eye on them, but maybe not followed them as far as he did.

Had Zimmerman been black, Martin probably would not have thought anything about the guy appearing to possibly be following him.

LOL. It was always known he followed so no i did not inject anything. Your "Fact" is a testament to that. So you think race was used to profile him and assume worse of a person? Again you support my post. Perception is in the eye of the beholder. I am glad we agree although you tried to disagree.

 

[GoIrish41]

It's funny how assuming an unknown kid slowly passing through your neighborhood, wearing the same kind of attire as it has been reported that some robbers have worn, is flat out racist and crazy. But assuming that some middle-aged guy who appears to be following you is up to no good is just fine, and perfectly normal?

Last year during Halloween a bunch of teens through TP in my tree and ran away. They did the same to several of our neighbors. If I followed every teen that walked though my neighborhood that I didn't know because of the vandalims that took place in october, I'd be considered the neighborhood lunatic and insanely creepy. Are you saying that Zimmerman is the neighborhood lunatic or just creepy? If I did it enough, I'd expect to be in a confrontation. Maybe I should go buy a gun like Zimmerman's. It was a real pain in the *** getting that toilet paper out of that tree. Oh, and he didn't appear to be following Martin -- he was following him.

 

[irishpat183]

Last year during Halloween a bunch of teens through TP in my tree and ran away. They did the same to several of our neighbors. If I followed every teen that walked though my neighborhood that I didn't know because of the vandalims that took place in october, I'd be considered the neighborhood lunatic and insanely creepy. Are you saying that Zimmerman is the neighborhood lunatic or just creepy? If I did it enough, I'd expect to be in a confrontation. Maybe I should go buy a gun like Zimmerman's. It was a real pain in the *** getting that toilet paper out of that tree. Oh, and he didn't appear to be following Martin -- he was following him.

There are no words......

Solid comparasion, GoIrish, solid.

 

[connor_in]

I don't get the sarcasm font here. This is pretty much what I'm saying. I'm not even making inferences about why the case was handled the way it was (although those are there to be made and many people have made them). I'm just sticking to the facts that a kid was shot and they knew who the shooter was, and without conducting a rigorous investigation - which they couldn't have possibly done the night of the shooting - they decided and not to arrest Zimmerman, or even take him into custody and question him for the allowed period of time prior to filing formal charges. There is no escaping the appearance of impropriety there. To then look at a weak State's case as proof that the police acted properly is doubly insulting and infuriating, because if they had handled the case better from the jump the prosecution would have had an easier case to make.



We can agree on this point about both parties could have made better decisions, but it does sound like an awful lot of people on your side of this discussion are engaging in what amounts to victim blaming, based both on his actions that night and clearly irrelevant information about the kid that has nothing to do with what happened that night (school suspensions, facebook photos, etc.).

OK so we have gone from not investigating (which no one believes thus the sarcasm font) to not rigorously investigating and making references to inferences of the police who now investigated but not rigorously?

 

[phgreek]

I see that what you did was inject facts that were unknown at the time, into situation. It's known as Monday Morning Quarterbacking.

Fact: Zimmerman saw a person who fit the general description of robbers that had been active in the neighborhood, entering the neighborhood through a hedgerow. Zimmerman didn't know that the kid was staying there. He naturally followed him, to see what he was up to. That's the watch part of Neighborhood Watch. He assumed that Martin was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake, but the "watch" part was reasonable.

Fact: Martin noticed a guy who appeared to be following him. Martin assumed that the guy was up to no good. The assumption was a mistake.

So both parties made the mistake of assuming the worst of the other. THAT'S where, I believe, the racial aspect comes into play. I believe that they made their assumptions based largely on skin color. Or, more specifically, the contrast of the other person's skin color, in comparison to their own.

Had it been a white kid, Zimmerman probably still would have kept an eye on them, but maybe not followed them as far as he did.

Had Zimmerman been black, Martin probably would not have thought anything about the guy appearing to possibly be following him.

I think your depiction of events still alludes to some "bad" racial component to Zimmerman's actions...Insomuch as descriptions of previous thieves in the neighborhood included "black", it immediately offers serious doubt about any "bad" racial motivation, and lends itself to being another component one would use to decide if the person in front of them merited attention based on previous thieves' appearance. I believe we must assume if thieves were white and Martin was white, Zimmerman follows just the same until someone can show me evidence to the contrary. I cannot cede the assumption that Zimmerman's actions belie ANY racial motivation in the insane Chris Mathews sense.

 

[GoIrish41]

It's uncanny how your theory of the case just happens to be the scenario that most favors Martin, lack of evidence be damned.

Are you sure he wasn't carrying a puppy too? Now that we know Zimmerman made everything up, who's to say Martin wasn't?

I believe that it is more appropriate to try to figure out what happened (through scenarios and discussion) than it is to simply believe an unbelievable story from a guy with everything to gain if we all buy it. Your implication that I am supporting Martin because I really, really want to is absurd. I listened to Zimmerman's story, thought it threw and determined that it made no sense to me. Who's to say Martin wasn't? What? Martin is dead. What was he making up?