Fair catch fumble

[Irishnuke]

If you think this one play would have changed the outcome of the game, you clearly didn't watch the whole game. We were outmatched on offense and defense. They were so much better in all aspects of the game that even if we scored a TD there, we would have still gotten our asses kicked. Stop pretending otherwise.

 

[Al H.]

Best angle I've seen. Looks like a block in the back, too. Is this a bad call or not?

Exceptionally bad. The only one worse was the play before when Tyler actually caught that ball for a big first down. Ruling him out of bounds killed the drive and forced the punt. The fair catch signal was late!!! Those ref's were out of their depth. Might have lost to that awesome 'Bama team anyway, but maybe 35-21 or something along those lines.

 

[Al H.]

I F*@#ING hate bad referring!!!! Especially against the IRISH. Athletes works so hard and then blown calls change the complexion of everything. Can't wait for the day it can be handled in the booth electronically and the ref's can just manage the ball position and announcements. It's coming.

 

[Al H.]

The missed holds p1ss me off more than the punt call. The whole "battle to watch" in the weeks leading up to the game was Nix vs. Jones. Jones took Nix and pulled his jersey up his back (almost hockey-style) play after play after play and no call. I can't bear to go back and watch it, but I'd be interested to see just how many times Nix bullrushed and Jones pulled his jersey and held his head down like that. It was atrocious. Considering this was where the "game would be won," it's startling that somehow the refs couldn't see any of this. Or just intentionally disregarded it.

This is a good point. Holding calls against the Tide were non existent and should have been enforced. BAD REFEREEING, no matter how you look at it.

 

[Sherm Sticky]

No, would not have affected the outcome of the game.

Yes, it was definitely the wrong call.

Yes, if we had scored there, the appearance of a blowout would have at least been tempered a little bit. Assuming everything else stays the same we probably eat up about 2 minutes on that drive and head into half down 21-7... and eventually lose 35-21. Would look better in a box score but the game never would've actually been close.

I told a friend on Tuesday "thank God Alabama was so much better than us because if we had lost by 3-7 points after that call I might've lost my mind." It's kinda nice that it was completely irrelevant.

Word

 

[Sherm Sticky]

From my interpretations of the rules and watching the replays, there are multiple penalties on the play, from both teams.

Block in the back on Bama #13
Kick-Catch interference on ND #8 Moore

The rule states that if the punt returner signals for a fair catch, and muffs the punt, he is allowed an unmolested opportunity to recover the ball until it touches the ground. There was contact made and Moore touches the ball before the returner has the opportunity to recover it.

Now, I dont know how these two penalties would interact. Id assume it would just become Bama ball since the kick-catch interference illegally allowed ND to recover the football. But they wouldnt move back from the block in the back because the penalties cancel out. Again, just my interpretation and assumptions.

The problem with the entire play is the late fair catch signal. I think they need to amend the rules so that the returner has to give more time for the signal. We are talking a matter of seconds here of reaction timing running at full speed. Farley was literally ~3 yards away when he makes the signal yet he still makes the appropriate adjustment given the timing and side steps him to avoid contact. Theres no way he shouldve been flagged.

Who cares

 

[C!C!4oND]

Who cares

 

[irishtrinity]

It does matter, the game started with three bad calls. That will really take the wind out of your sails.
Not saying in the end we would have won, but momentum is a hell of a thing.

Totally.

 

[NDhoosier]

It changes the momentum of the game and the flow of it in the 1st quarter. We would still have lost, but that play might have shifted the score some. Hard to tell how much of an impact it would have had.

exactly, too many naysayers who slide this under the table too easily. I dont think we would have won, but the game would have been totally different if it started out 7-7 or 7-3 instead of 21-0. This BLOWN call ruined the championship game.

 

[irishtrinity]

exactly, too many naysayers who slide this under the table too easily. I dont think we would have won, but the game would have been totally different if it started out 7-7 or 7-3 instead of 21-0. This BLOWN call ruined the championship game.

Amen.. Amen Brother that is the truth.. I give Bama all the respect they were the better team that night..
Now we get that fumble, Golson on 2nd down doesn't throw that crazy int. at the 30 or so.. Thats two TD's or at least 6.

 

[BGIF]

exactly, too many naysayers who slide this under the table too easily. I dont think we would have won, but the game would have been totally different if it started out 7-7 or 7-3 instead of 21-0. This BLOWN call ruined the championship game.

I had to check that I was on IE, this post is typical of the Michigan board after a loss.

Yes, undoubtedly ALL those missed tackles would have been turned into classic wraps had the ref made the right call.

Golson's long rainbows down the sideline suddenly would have been thrown with zip and to the receivers outside shoulder (like McCarron's) if the refs hadn't erred.

Bama's OLine would not have put on a blocking clinic on our DLine and LBs without that call.

Lacy would never have gotten to the line of scrimmage.

No UA receiver would have been wide open in the game.

ND would not have muffed a punt nor fielded one inside the 5.


It would have been one of the +3 or +4 turnovers ND would have needed. Instead ND was -1.

 

[Irish YJ]

I had to check that I was on IE, this post is typical of the Michigan board after a loss.

Yes, undoubtedly ALL those missed tackles would have been turned into classic wraps had the ref made the right call.

Golson's long rainbows down the sideline suddenly would have been thrown with zip and to the receivers outside shoulder (like McCarron's) if the refs hadn't erred.

Bama's OLine would not have put on a blocking clinic on our DLine and LBs without that call.

Lacy would never have gotten to the line of scrimmage.

No UA receiver would have been wide open in the game.

ND would not have muffed a punt nor fielded one inside the 5.


It would have been one of the +3 or +4 turnovers ND would have needed. Instead ND was -1.

Troof.
Like I said above, this play was not a 28 point swing. If you say momentum is everthing, I'd challenge that great teams that are mentally strong do not let bad calls crush their spirit.

We would have had to play a perfect game, or close to perfect game + some breaks coming our way to win. PERIOD.

Unfortunately or fortunately (tend to think fortunately), we now know where we stand.

• Size, stregnth, speed: We're clearly deficient here. We are recuiting well, but we are 2 years away from the depth of teams like Bama, UGA, LSU, etc..
• Mental toughness: We were pretty darn tough all year.... But the team was intimidated from the start Monday night. If you recorded the game, take a look at the teams coming out of the tunnel. Bama was lose, rowdy, confident, chomping at the bit to get on the field. We, well we looked intimidated. Penalties, bad decisions, etc..
• Big stage experience: OK, USC, Standford, etc are big games. ESPN Game Day is a big game. But they are not NC type games on the Big Stage. It's been a while for us, so no shame in not knowing how to react. No current player, no current coach (sorry D2 doesn't count) has been there in a good while. Now we know what it's like. That the positive.
• Coaching: Preparing for the game, game plan, play calling: Deferring, throwing at an All American CB, throwing the first 3 plays, I could go on and on. Pretty sure BK is self aware, so I have every confidence he will utilize lessons learned.
  
  We had a terrific year. Overacheived. We got a lot of breaks. Be happy with that. But don't be blind to the obvious. If we stay on task, we're 2 years away from being able to go toe to toe with SEC like teams, instead of relying on perfect games and luck.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I had to check that I was on IE, this post is typical of the Michigan board after a loss.

Yes, undoubtedly ALL those missed tackles would have been turned into classic wraps had the ref made the right call.

Golson's long rainbows down the sideline suddenly would have been thrown with zip and to the receivers outside shoulder (like McCarron's) if the refs hadn't erred.

Bama's OLine would not have put on a blocking clinic on our DLine and LBs without that call.

Lacy would never have gotten to the line of scrimmage.

No UA receiver would have been wide open in the game.

ND would not have muffed a punt nor fielded one inside the 5.


It would have been one of the +3 or +4 turnovers ND would have needed. Instead ND was -1.

Is there a post where anyone says that this would have turned the game into an ND win? What almost everyone is saying is that it was a big momentum swing at a key moment and those matter in football. It could have been the difference between an loss and an embarrassing loss, which I would have appreciated down here in Birmingham! I sure like the sound of 21-7 at half and 35-21 alot better than 42-14.

The holding non-calls were more annoying for sure. My Georgia friends were warning me about those, and they came. The funniest is when they were showing Lacey (who is a beast) fly through a hole in slow motion- they must have shown the OG tackle Sprinmann from behind 7 times in a row without mentioning it.

Had this game been called evenly, I saw nothing that suggest ND would have won. But that doesn't mean bad calls don't matter.

 

[rikkitikki08]

I have actually erased that NC from my memory so this fair catch fumble is fuzzy to me

 

[Irish To The Core]

I have actually erased that NC from my memory so this fair catch fumble is fuzzy to me

Refresh my memory; what does "NC" stand for again?

 

[PLACforever]

Alabama was the better team, no doubt. But it's crazy to argue that single plays like that at crucial moments don't turn the tide of games. How many times have you seen a team been stopped in three downs, but then get their possession extended by a bad call or non-call and go down and score?

Too soon

 

[RDU Irish]

Not only do you start 7-3 to 7-7, but the time off the clock means we probably have the final play of the half instead of Bama driving for the fourth TD. 21-3 sucks at halftime but at least you are on the board and feel you are a tipped INT away from 21-10 or 21-14. We still don't win but a second half split would put the final at 35-17 or 35-21 which gives ND the over on team points and more Vbucks in my account. Great moments in gambling history...

Ifs and buts were candy and nuts, right?

What cracks me up is the comment section horribly negative on what is obvious in the replay; Farley was pushed in the back and still didn't touch him. Muffed catch, ND ball on the 25.

 

[rikkitikki08]

Refresh my memory; what does "NC" stand for again?

National championship, sorry should have said "national championship game"

 

[domerfor life]

Horrid call. Absolutely a huge momentum changer. I think without this horrid, inexplicable call we only lose 35-21...maybe 35-24.

'Bama was a well oiled machine and that blown call just turned a sound beating into a crushing.

In retrospect, I think there was one team playing who were not satisfied with their season yet and another who were wildly ecstatic about what they had achieved. Notre Dame did not fear losing like 'Bama. 'Bama was like a mother bear defending it's cub...Notre Dame was the unsuspecting tourist saying: "Get a picture of me with this cute Teddy Bear."

This is funny, but pretty much explains the whole night. One team was chomping at the bit to prove that one loss was a fluke. The other team (despite the chatter to the contrary) looked like it was just happy to get there. What I saw Monday night made me sick to my stomach. I watched guys who were solid tacklers all year consistently whiff on potential TFLs. Despite that, Bama murdered us in the trenches. I knew when we were getting absolutely no push on D that it was going to be a long night.....and it was. The inexperience showed.

 

[James_in_Utah]

Hi All,
Being a Bama fan, and not having watched the game until I could find it on YouTube last night, I paid particular attention to this play. I thought it could have gone either way. The ND defender did come within 1 yard of the punt receiver, which could draw a penalty. It did appear that he was blocked in the back into that position by the Bama player, which could have been a penalty on Bama. Also, since there was a fair catch signaled, Jones should have been allowed to catch the ball until it hit the ground, which he wasn't. Add to that the fact that the fair catch signal was very late. This wasn't the first time Jones has been accused of very late or very weak fair catch signals. It seems like the play had numerous problems. What should the result be? Probably Bama with the ball right where it was recovered, with offsetting penalties. I did notice a few questionable calls going for the Irish in the second half but the game was over by that point. By the way, for some reason Bama doesn't get called for holding. I don't know why. It's been that way for the last 3 or 4 years. Maybe they are just good at it.

 

[Crazy Balki]

It was obviously a blown call, and a critical one at that. Alabama had a ton of momentum going into that play, and them getting the ball near midfield only increased it. However, it's difficult to argue that it would've changed the result by much.

 

[PraetorianND]

Hi All,
Being a Bama fan, and not having watched the game until I could find it on YouTube last night, I paid particular attention to this play. I thought it could have gone either way. The ND defender did come within 1 yard of the punt receiver, which could draw a penalty. It did appear that he was blocked in the back into that position by the Bama player, which could have been a penalty on Bama. Also, since there was a fair catch signaled, Jones should have been allowed to catch the ball until it hit the ground, which he wasn't. Add to that the fact that the fair catch signal was very late. This wasn't the first time Jones has been accused of very late or very weak fair catch signals. It seems like the play had numerous problems. What should the result be? Probably Bama with the ball right where it was recovered, with offsetting penalties. I did notice a few questionable calls going for the Irish in the second half but the game was over by that point. By the way, for some reason Bama doesn't get called for holding. I don't know why. It's been that way for the last 3 or 4 years. Maybe they are just good at it.

It was a blown call.

You're right about holding. I was screaming at my TV throughout the game when those calls weren't made.

 

[ROLLtide]

Wonder how Pittsburgh fans might feel about a certain pass interference call that benefited ND this year?

Seem to me if you get a bad call, you can also look back and find a time when your team got away with one.

It kind of evens out for most teams.

I thought this call was iffy because the Bama player was blocking in the back on the play, they missed it.

But the ND player was right there on C. Jones when the ball got there, i guess that's what they noticed and didn't see the block in the back.

 

[Grahambo]

Wonder how Pittsburgh fans might feel about a certain pass interference call that benefited ND this year?

Seem to me if you get a bad call, you can also look back and find a time when your team got away with one.

It kind of evens out for most teams.

I thought this call was iffy because the Bama player was blocking in the back on the play, they missed it.

But the ND player was right there on C. Jones when the ball got there, i guess that's what they noticed and didn't see the block in the back.

Most of us understand that even with that call, we didn't stand a chance. Its those delusional few...bet you have some too.

 

[James_in_Utah]

I guess you could consider that Jones bobbled the ball, after making the fair catch signal, and a ND player caught it while it was still in the air. That right there warrants the penalty.