NDVirginia19
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Environmental Issues
- Thread starter Legacy
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TorontoGold
Mr. Dumb Moron
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Isn't the whole soft power thing something MAGA hates? Or is it now super duper important because China? MAGA is so fucking retarded lmao. "Tactical retreat from the world stage......also China is doing this super nefarious thing...hmmmmm........anyways!"
NDVirginia19
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Secretly funding brain dreaded NIMBY’s frivolous lawsuits is not really the soft power that USAID was funding. There is at least strategic synergy with that China is doing here. What strategic benefit is there to funding gender queer operas in Chile?
TorontoGold
Mr. Dumb Moron
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Yeah cutting out funding in Africa and letting China suck up the power vacuum in there is great foreign policy. But I guess those queers in southern america lost their production of Cats!
Old Man Mike
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I don't know anything about the "political" sounding language above, so I'll ignore most of that and just comment on the business/environment stuff.
1. Micron is a pretty normal high-tech business which promises to help out the US future in microchips (positive) and has typical technical concerns with pollutants (negative.)
2. Therefore people who want more money or security on the macroscale will be on one side and very local people will be quite scared on the other. This couldn't be more "normal." (and neither group should be automatically demonized.)
3. So ... what might actual facts contribute to our understanding?: the microchip process DOES take a LOT of Water, Energy, and some space, which because of the dangerous technical elements in its waste, is placed "out of town."
4. On Water: the "neighbors" (NIMBYers) worry, but Micron and Syracuse say that there is a good plan for the AMOUNT of water needed. NIMBYers SHOULD worry, (it's their life), but the Impact plan says this should be OK.
5. On Wetlands: The plot of country chosen for this plant has been purchased (several purchases) and sellers seem happy. The space (out-of-town remember) is LOADED with wetlands. Uncaring humans don't care about wetlands but frankly they are morons. BIG ecosystem damage occurs (often with big unpredictables) when you just obliterate wetlands. Well, Micron knows this and says it cares about it. So, in the impact statement, it claims to have accounted for wetland destruction (which {note} is clearly admittedly done by the building process) and there is replacement by ... whatever they're doing --- in Michigan it would be producing an equivalent amount of artificial wetlands. The NIMBYers are being asked to buy that this is so.
6. Water pollution: yes that's a legitimate concern. But the remedies are theoretically known scientifically and in "best practice." Micron claims that it will use "best practice" here, as health lawsuits are murderous to business money lines and reputation and, depending upon ownership, morality. (I don't know the owner well, but I've heard him talk several times and he is Uber-intelligent and seems NOT to be a monster or uncaring sociopath. Plus to my knowledge his other plants are OK on dangerous pollution.)
7. Some plants, particularly High-Teckkers, come in and don't really hire the struggling local workers, but bus in "outsiders with skills." The agreement with the governments (Syracuse, New York, and, I believe even Feds) states that Micron will hire 80% local. NIMBYers are skeptical of that and want some enforcement of things like that written into the agreements.
.................
And there's more on other scales. The point is that this behavior is American-Normal on both sides when the business is a business with a decent previous track record and the public is reasonably well informed. "China" is a red herring here. The NUT of current contention is that SO MUCH depends upon what's really written into the Impact Statement and How it's written. The people's side of this is saying that this was so unanimously popular with politicians (Note that HIGH LEVEL personages of BOTH parties are in that ground-breaking shot), that it was whizzed through the approval process giving the NIMBYers very little time to vet it and comment.
My current opinion is this:
A. This dust-up is America; China may spend some money but if so they are stupid;
B. The company in this case is a decent one with a decent top man; they'll try to do what they promise;
C. The "science" is OK and understood; this will not be a human health issue once built and settled down;
D. The Wetlands concern is a legit concern; Hopefully NY has good laws about replacing the acreage;
E. This is what the "Chips Act" (signed by Biden by the way) was trying to encourage -- I write Joe's name because people of profound stupidity try to turn EVERYTHING into divisive politics. This was just the majority of the country realizing that we had to reduce dependence on China everywhere.
F. Give the NIMBYers a little more time to read the document. It's a big project. The local person with the nearby house will never like the tearing up of the neighborhood and the construction traffic --- we can't blame them. We should feel some sympathy for them, even though sometimes their statements about other matters do not turn out to be as reasonable.
When I was chairman of the Kalamazoo County Solid Waste Management Committee, I saw this drama played out in both ways as to who was "more right."
1. Micron is a pretty normal high-tech business which promises to help out the US future in microchips (positive) and has typical technical concerns with pollutants (negative.)
2. Therefore people who want more money or security on the macroscale will be on one side and very local people will be quite scared on the other. This couldn't be more "normal." (and neither group should be automatically demonized.)
3. So ... what might actual facts contribute to our understanding?: the microchip process DOES take a LOT of Water, Energy, and some space, which because of the dangerous technical elements in its waste, is placed "out of town."
4. On Water: the "neighbors" (NIMBYers) worry, but Micron and Syracuse say that there is a good plan for the AMOUNT of water needed. NIMBYers SHOULD worry, (it's their life), but the Impact plan says this should be OK.
5. On Wetlands: The plot of country chosen for this plant has been purchased (several purchases) and sellers seem happy. The space (out-of-town remember) is LOADED with wetlands. Uncaring humans don't care about wetlands but frankly they are morons. BIG ecosystem damage occurs (often with big unpredictables) when you just obliterate wetlands. Well, Micron knows this and says it cares about it. So, in the impact statement, it claims to have accounted for wetland destruction (which {note} is clearly admittedly done by the building process) and there is replacement by ... whatever they're doing --- in Michigan it would be producing an equivalent amount of artificial wetlands. The NIMBYers are being asked to buy that this is so.
6. Water pollution: yes that's a legitimate concern. But the remedies are theoretically known scientifically and in "best practice." Micron claims that it will use "best practice" here, as health lawsuits are murderous to business money lines and reputation and, depending upon ownership, morality. (I don't know the owner well, but I've heard him talk several times and he is Uber-intelligent and seems NOT to be a monster or uncaring sociopath. Plus to my knowledge his other plants are OK on dangerous pollution.)
7. Some plants, particularly High-Teckkers, come in and don't really hire the struggling local workers, but bus in "outsiders with skills." The agreement with the governments (Syracuse, New York, and, I believe even Feds) states that Micron will hire 80% local. NIMBYers are skeptical of that and want some enforcement of things like that written into the agreements.
.................
And there's more on other scales. The point is that this behavior is American-Normal on both sides when the business is a business with a decent previous track record and the public is reasonably well informed. "China" is a red herring here. The NUT of current contention is that SO MUCH depends upon what's really written into the Impact Statement and How it's written. The people's side of this is saying that this was so unanimously popular with politicians (Note that HIGH LEVEL personages of BOTH parties are in that ground-breaking shot), that it was whizzed through the approval process giving the NIMBYers very little time to vet it and comment.
My current opinion is this:
A. This dust-up is America; China may spend some money but if so they are stupid;
B. The company in this case is a decent one with a decent top man; they'll try to do what they promise;
C. The "science" is OK and understood; this will not be a human health issue once built and settled down;
D. The Wetlands concern is a legit concern; Hopefully NY has good laws about replacing the acreage;
E. This is what the "Chips Act" (signed by Biden by the way) was trying to encourage -- I write Joe's name because people of profound stupidity try to turn EVERYTHING into divisive politics. This was just the majority of the country realizing that we had to reduce dependence on China everywhere.
F. Give the NIMBYers a little more time to read the document. It's a big project. The local person with the nearby house will never like the tearing up of the neighborhood and the construction traffic --- we can't blame them. We should feel some sympathy for them, even though sometimes their statements about other matters do not turn out to be as reasonable.
When I was chairman of the Kalamazoo County Solid Waste Management Committee, I saw this drama played out in both ways as to who was "more right."
IRISHDODGER
Blue Chip Recruit
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Sea Turtle
Slow and steady wins the race
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I worry about sub-sahara Africa. Nigeria inviting US troops is at least a positive development.
Sometimes you need to be humble. If another nation has to take care of a problem for you, invite them in and ask them how to deal with it.
Old Man Mike
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Remarkably shallow look at the systemic planning and time frames by all futurist thinking which really dives deeply into this.
Such systemics take all of these babbled-bits of topics into account, assume that progress will be tough, but that things like the ocean impact and the violence of storms, and the chance of a "strange attractor" shift will be avoided or at least more workable. With the intelligent data-oriented system builders, NONE of this is disregarded.
But this is a free country, so shallow reactionary (almost babbling) assertions are "honored". (Unhelpful but "honored").
Such systemics take all of these babbled-bits of topics into account, assume that progress will be tough, but that things like the ocean impact and the violence of storms, and the chance of a "strange attractor" shift will be avoided or at least more workable. With the intelligent data-oriented system builders, NONE of this is disregarded.
But this is a free country, so shallow reactionary (almost babbling) assertions are "honored". (Unhelpful but "honored").