Difference Between ND and the Elite Programs

[Polish Leppy 22]

I don't like Pat Forde but he spits truth here. Plain and simple. Numbers don't lie. We have one of the best offenses in the country but we can't stop anyone. Offense brings crowds and defense wins games. Nuff said. This 2009 team is officially the Dallas Mavericks of the NCAA. I hope to God it changes next year.

I'd rather have a 12-0 team than a 9-3 team with a Heisman trophy winner.

The best evidence of the half-year that Defenses are Winning (31):

A. Texas leads the nation in scoring at 42 points per game. Last year through six games Texas was fifth nationally in scoring at 46.8 points per game.

B. Four of the top five teams in the country in total defense rank in the top 15 of the BCS standings. Zero of the top five teams in the country in total offense rank in the top 15.

C. Sixteen teams are averaging at least three sacks per game. Last year the number was seven.

Dash answer: B.

 

[Master Guns]

I don't like Pat Forde but he spits truth here. Plain and simple. Numbers don't lie. We have one of the best offenses in the country but we can't stop anyone. Offense brings crowds and defense wins games. Nuff said. This 2009 team is officially the Dallas Mavericks of the NCAA. I hope to God it changes next year.

I'd rather have a 12-0 team than a 9-3 team with a Heisman trophy winner.

The best evidence of the half-year that Defenses are Winning (31):

A. Texas leads the nation in scoring at 42 points per game. Last year through six games Texas was fifth nationally in scoring at 46.8 points per game.

B. Four of the top five teams in the country in total defense rank in the top 15 of the BCS standings. Zero of the top five teams in the country in total offense rank in the top 15.

C. Sixteen teams are averaging at least three sacks per game. Last year the number was seven.

Dash answer: B.

Any link to his column?

 

[Brown]

Most BCS teams have anywhere from 1-3 losses in the 21st century -- the pre '74 Ara days are long gone.

I'd be happy with a 9-3 season, and ecstatic with a 10-2 season which would likely put us in a quality BCS bowl ... and land us a handful of quality recruits.

This team is looking to be very competitive for the foreseeable future with all the talent stacked over the last several seasons.

 

[phork]

Its been a long standing truth that Defense wins championships.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

Offense wins games, Defense wins championships.

That statement can kind of contradict itself sometimes, but for the most part, I agree. If you have a solid defense and a piss poor offense then you can definitely still compete, but can easily get beat (Insert Nebraska Cornhuskers). But, if you look at the dominating programs for the past 15 years, each and every one have one thing in common, excellent defenses year after year.

Having a great defense doesn’t give you a little advantage, it gives you a HUGE advantage. Take USC's game for example... If we started clicking better on offense in the first half we might have won, but the defense was able to throttle us down JUST enough to pull out the win. Add to the fact that our defense was absolutely shredded, and it makes for a difficult scenario to win. On the flip side, say our defense was just as good as our offense, but our offense stunk.... We can keep opponents scoring less, and give our offense opportunities to get gimmie TD's or scores. The 2007 team showed this in alot of cases. Now I’m not saying the 07 defense was great by any means, but the offense STUNK, and STUNK bad, but we were in many games because our defense put us in positions to succeed.

We need to concentrate on the defensive side of the ball. We had had 3 schemes in 3 years, and that has obviously taken a toll on the players. Keep it simple, get back to the basics, and recruit speed.

The other equation is the lines. DAMN, the lines are so damn important its ridiculous. Just look what happened with USC. That line is the best in the country , and they definitely showed it against us on Saturday. You could have put a high school senior QB back there and he would have lit us up, dude had ALL DAY to throw. Barkley make some great passes, don't get me wrong, but its a helluva lot easier throwing an accurate ball when your behind a wall like that....

We build on these two fundamentals and we build a competitive program again. We will always get athletes for the backfield, and some 4-5 start QB will want to go to ND, but to start pulling the Seantrel and Martin's out of the field makes a HUGE difference!!!!

 

[jason_h537]

well yeah. thats pretty obvious. I wouldnt consider us an elite team but we are on the way

 

[AlumniHall98]

Do I really need Pat Forde and his obscenely large forehead (you could show movies on that thing!) to tell me that what seperates us from the "elite" teams is DEFENSE??? Oh....really Pat??? Wow, thanks for shedding light on this!! All these weeks this season I've been sitting around thinking, "man, if only our offense could score some points, if only our QB could sling it around, if only we had some guys who could catch and run....wow, THEN we'd be unstoppable!!"

Give me a break....hey, Pat Forde, do us all a favor and stop insulting our intelligence. We are all fully aware of our collective achilles heel, but our defense is showing steady improvement, save for the secondary, and we are a corner and safety away from being "elite" once again.

Now, please, "Dash" away little Pat.

 

[Riddickulous]

This is actually true.

With a good defense, the Irish could have been in the national championship game in 2005 and 2006.

And the only thing keeping us from being 6-0 and on the right track for a title appearance is a bad defense.

 

[IrishAddiction]

difference....# of wins?

 

[The Polish Irishman]

I would say we are elite on offense and will be for at least 3 more years.

We are missing a playmaking safety and pass rushing DEs.

I do like KLM alot. He has a great motor.

 

[Brown]

Ethan Johnson and KLM should be fantastic as defensive ends next year with Stockton and Ian Williams both holding down the inside at DT.

The defense is a year behind the offense right now, but has the potential to take a similar step forward (from '09 to '10) that the offense did from '08 to '09.

 

[BGIF]

...We have one of the best offenses in the country but we can't stop anyone. ...

Ah, Leppy that was discussed at length since last season. Did you miss 9 months of those discussions? Can ND win Shootouts was a common topic.

Did you really need Pat Forde's grasp of the obvious to point that out to you after 6 weeks of games?

It was hoped that Tenuta's blitzes would offset the DLine's youth, lack of strength, depth, experience, the lack of a pass rush, and the propensity to give up large chunks of rushing yardage. It hasn't worked.

Against Nevada, the defense kept them between the 20's, everbody else has frequented the Red Zone. Sometimes like with UW the defense made a series of plays, more often it was an individual play making the difference. Too often they didn't make plays - as was the concern preseason.

 

[devolg]

sorry what was the topic, fell out of my chair laughing @ jason_h537's signature. That's absolutely outstanding.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

I wasn't praising Pat Forde or beating the same drum over again with discussions we've had about the defense.

I was trying to highlight the stats and numbers that show the best teams in the country have superb defenses

 

[mick2]

the difference between us and elite is about four yards and seven points.

We beat sc(even by the narrowest of margins) and we are "elite" according to the "experts"

but we lost (by a narrow margin) and we arent "elite" and never will be according to the "experts"

 

[phork]

the difference between us and elite is about four yards and seven points.

We beat sc(even by the narrowest of margins) and we are "elite" according to the "experts"

but we lost (by a narrow margin) and we arent "elite" and never will be according to the "experts"

You must be kidding, right? Our offense is elite being that we can run and pass on anyone at will. Our defense is probably the opposite of elite, and since we have concluded that defense wins championships its going to be a while.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

The fortunate thing is we have talent on defense. Are we the most talented? No, of course not. But how man times have you sat and watched on television the ND player in the perfect position to make a tackle, and laid a good hit on the opposing player and not wrap up, only to have the opposing player get free and run for 12 yards on 3rd and 9. Or playing a loose coverage on 3rd and twelve and give up a 15 yard pass. Now no defense is perfect, but just think for a moment, if what I am saying happens 6 times in a game, how good would we be if we reduced that to 3. That stops 3 more drives, if these 3 drives combined to range from yielding 9-21 points. How would our defense rank if we gave up say 14 less points per game?

If these players had fundementals stressed on defense to wrap up and gang tackle and not just around the line of scrimmage, but everywhere on the field. IMO bad defensive scheme and lack of fundementals not necessarily a lack of talent. If the def player who only hits a guy and the guys breaks free, the ND player ends up with a missed tackle, But if he wraps up and makes the tackle thus increasing his tackles from 6 pg to 9 pg then on of a sudden people say he is talented instead of average.

Watch Alabama, or any of the teams known for a good defense they seem to have 2 or 3 players around the ball one guy hits and 2 other guys are there. Yes, this does require speed, but it also requires attitude. What we need is a defense with an attitude. We used to have this under Alvarez.

 

[mick2]

You must be kidding, right? Our offense is elite being that we can run and pass on anyone at will. Our defense is probably the opposite of elite, and since we have concluded that defense wins championships its going to be a while.

no i am not kidding, what would these forums be like if we had gotten that touchdown, went to overtime and won?

everybody would be saying "WE'RE BACK"

defense hasnt been the best in the world but they've played good enough for us to have a chance to win every game.

am i saying we are elite? maybe, maybe not. but the difference is between winning and losing.

listen to what everybody on the radio/tv is saying. I mean sc escaped with a win in ND stadium and everybody says they are playing the best football out of anyone in the country.

while we fall 4 yards short and we are just terrible in everybodys eyes and will never be elite.

I dont understand how the radio personalities can say we are mediocre, but then rave about sc for beating a supposed mediocre team. you cant have it both ways.

either it was a good victory over a quality irish team or it was business as usual you cant thump your chest saying we won but then say well the irish are mediocre at best.

Does that make any sense?

 

[JefMaj]

One difference - you play on a 9-3 (10-3, or 9-4) ND team (Hell, any record) and people will say about you: He played football at ND. Most other elite schools - 10-2 or better (10-3) unless you stay in the college town you played in - or, win it ALL - people years later will point out that you played Div I ball. You have to go back to Ann Arbor, Gainesville (in the last 25 years - no where on the map previously), to get the same recognition. Point: a team that has struggled for a decade and open any site - ESPN, etc... and you see ND headlines. Any other school in the country goes 3-9, 6-6, then 4-2 and scores 27 on USC and the other loss is to UM (with 6 to go in what is considered (NOW) a top 25 schedule (only 7 ranked BCS teams have tougher schedules:

Elkhart Truth (10/21/09)

NOT SO SOFT

Notre Dame's schedule, which many figured would be easy this season, continues to look better with each passing week.

Purdue's victory over Ohio State last weekend helped Irish opponents raise their combined 2009 record to 47-33 and give Notre Dame the 23rd-most difficult schedule in the country, according to the NCAA. Only seven of the 25 teams ranked in the first Bowl Championship Series standings have played a tougher schedule than the Irish, and only seven have a tougher schedule left to play than Notre Dame, whose remaining opponents are 25-15.


)).


any other school and the headlines are all about the strides... not the question of revellence.

I guess, when ND returns, and I say here daily (actually everytime I post) which will be shortly - if not already - we are and will be elite. We ARE the story. We ARE expected to dominate. Or who would read the daily stories that we do dominate. People are not reading about Tennessee, UCLA, Fla. St - - NOW THAT'S A STORY!!!!!

We are the elite. We are ND. We've never gone as LSU recently has - 45 years without a championship, 49 years for UM, 31 years for USC, OSU - 33, Tenn - 31, Georgia - 29, Nebraska 23 - Penn. St. - 23, Florida - watched us from the sidelines for over a century...

Okay - - I lost my train of thought - too many phone calls and multi-tasking - - but I hope I had a point.

We win out and we are the elite. Next year we are feared.

 

[weisbank4]

That little Weis "haters gonna hate" campbells soup kid thing is probably the best thing Ive ever seen in my life.

 

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

One difference - you play on a 9-3 (10-3, or 9-4) ND team (Hell, any record) and people will say about you: He played football at ND. Most other elite schools - 10-2 or better (10-3) unless you stay in the college town you played in - or, win it ALL - people years later will point out that you played Div I ball. You have to go back to Ann Arbor, Gainesville (in the last 25 years - no where on the map previously), to get the same recognition. Point: a team that has struggled for a decade and open any site - ESPN, etc... and you see ND headlines. Any other school in the country goes 3-9, 6-6, then 4-2 and scores 27 on USC and the other loss is to UM (with 6 to go in what is considered (NOW) a top 25 schedule (only 7 ranked BCS teams have tougher schedules:

Elkhart Truth (10/21/09)

NOT SO SOFT

Notre Dame's schedule, which many figured would be easy this season, continues to look better with each passing week.

Purdue's victory over Ohio State last weekend helped Irish opponents raise their combined 2009 record to 47-33 and give Notre Dame the 23rd-most difficult schedule in the country, according to the NCAA. Only seven of the 25 teams ranked in the first Bowl Championship Series standings have played a tougher schedule than the Irish, and only seven have a tougher schedule left to play than Notre Dame, whose remaining opponents are 25-15.


)).


any other school and the headlines are all about the strides... not the question of revellence.

I guess, when ND returns, and I say here daily (actually everytime I post) which will be shortly - if not already - we are and will be elite. We ARE the story. We ARE expected to dominate. Or who would read the daily stories that we do dominate. People are not reading about Tennessee, UCLA, Fla. St - - NOW THAT'S A STORY!!!!!

We are the elite. We are ND. We've never gone as LSU recently has - 45 years without a championship, 49 years for UM, 31 years for USC, OSU - 33, Tenn - 31, Georgia - 29, Nebraska 23 - Penn. St. - 23, Florida - watched us from the sidelines for over a century...

Okay - - I lost my train of thought - too many phone calls and multi-tasking - - but I hope I had a point.

We win out and we are the elite. Next year we are feared.

DAMN!!!! that made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. ONE HELL OF A POST!!!!!!!

 

[phork]

no i am not kidding, what would these forums be like if we had gotten that touchdown, went to overtime and won?

everybody would be saying "WE'RE BACK"

defense hasnt been the best in the world but they've played good enough for us to have a chance to win every game.

am i saying we are elite? maybe, maybe not. but the difference is between winning and losing.

listen to what everybody on the radio/tv is saying. I mean sc escaped with a win in ND stadium and everybody says they are playing the best football out of anyone in the country.

while we fall 4 yards short and we are just terrible in everybodys eyes and will never be elite.

I dont understand how the radio personalities can say we are mediocre, but then rave about sc for beating a supposed mediocre team. you cant have it both ways.

either it was a good victory over a quality irish team or it was business as usual you cant thump your chest saying we won but then say well the irish are mediocre at best.

Does that make any sense?

It makes a lot of sense, but tv and radio people are talking heads and I discount a good portion of anything they have to say. SC escaped, yes they did. I still find it impossible to believe that at the 4 yard ND didn't punch it in. Saying that, I don't believe that USC is an elite team, against a stout defense I think they would lose. Are they a top10 team? I think so, mostly because of their defense.

Sadly whatifs don't count. Scoreboard is the final vote, and until the defense shores up more than it has then ND is not an elite team by any stretch.

 

[irishtrain]

my thoughts

my thoughts

Ironic that this thread was started and here's my two cents. Notre Dames defense has the athletes except on d line. And I'm not sure that we dont have the atletes there just that they havent played to that level that must happen if we are to dominate a game. Notre Dame reminds me of the Cowboys of the '70s when they played the Stillers ( I'm from Pitts ) a great offense that got attention but couldnt handle the Steelers and the Steel Curtain D. Pittsburgh short circuited the computer and won. My buddies used to say what does the computer say when you get hit in the mouth? Notre Dame with Charlie will score, and put points on the board, you can see that by the southern cal game. He will find a way to score-enough said. The problem is the D ( which I am convinced they have the players ). They're just not getting it done either by scheme or performance. When Notre Dame has won championships the D did it. We ask for O line excellance and it is here. The new cry should be D line, D line, D line. The coaches are in place for this to happen, they are very good. I believe the D line coaches are excellent. Now the players have to step up and we need to get more talent in while they hold the fort. This will be ever so hard as these players dont grow on trees and right now they are going to other schools. 27 points should have been enough to beat southern cal. Its not all the secondarys issue, Hayseed and McCarthy have their hands full out on an island. This last piece of the puzzle will be D line and when that is filled this team will be what you all want-dominant. My eyeball test fron the southern cal game told me that except for D line we are their equal if not more. Barkley would have been 'bagged' if the D had the ability to play it straight, they didnt have that option and paid the price.

 

[mick2]

It makes a lot of sense, but tv and radio people are talking heads and I discount a good portion of anything they have to say. SC escaped, yes they did. I still find it impossible to believe that at the 4 yard ND didn't punch it in. Saying that, I don't believe that USC is an elite team, against a stout defense I think they would lose. Are they a top10 team? I think so, mostly because of their defense.

Sadly whatifs don't count. Scoreboard is the final vote, and until the defense shores up more than it has then ND is not an elite team by any stretch.

i believe sc is a top 10 team as well and you dont get much more elite than the top 10.

But after watching the game between sc and ND you have to see that we are right there.

and outside of florida and bama i would say that we would give the rest of the top 10 a hell of a game.

so the ball bounced the wrong way a couple of times, that happens in cfb now.

But some fans and mostly all media are too hasty to write teams off as pretenders, and prop teams up as contenders.

 

[jason_h537]

With the exception of Bama. Every team looks like a pretender this year.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

With the exception of Bama. Every team looks like a pretender this year.

Bingo. Florida could give them a run for their money, but I'm with you and Mike Golic here. Best team in football.

 

[Irish52]

I beleive the kids we have on defense are talented to play their positions....ie, they have the basic skills. What they lack is strong, competent coaching. Get rid of Tenuta now and put Corrine Brown in complete control. We need the coaching to win the NC in 2010.

 

[JefMaj]

Top 10 great "elite" players.

CFB - Photo Gallery - FOX Sports on MSN FOOTBALL&photo=10252880

 

[kmoose]

I beleive the kids we have on defense are talented to play their positions....ie, they have the basic skills. What they lack is strong, competent coaching. Get rid of Tenuta now and put Corrine Brown in complete control. We need the coaching to win the NC in 2010.

You mean Corwin Brown, the guy who coaches the DBs, who looked like High Schoolers against USC, and not much better than that, against Purdue and Michigan State? Let's be honest here. Corwin Brown is young and exuberant, but based on the performance of the secondary (his primary responsibility), he is nowhere near ready to take over an entire defense.

 

[CuerVo0220]

You mean Corwin Brown, the guy who coaches the DBs, who looked like High Schoolers against USC, and not much better than that, against Purdue and Michigan State? Let's be honest here. Corwin Brown is young and exuberant, but based on the performance of the secondary (his primary responsibility), he is nowhere near ready to take over an entire defense.

Are you seriously saying the the DBs are the worst part of the D. With Tenuta sending everyone at the QB, the secondary has to try and pick up the slack even when they don't enough DBs to cover all of the recievers. Now, I'm not saying the DBs are problem free but you can't put all of the blame on them or Corwin Brown. I honestly don't know what needs to be done, if I did, I would probably be on the ND sideline getting paid bookoo bucks to solve the problem. What I do know, is there is definately is a problem. I agree that coaching has a lot to do with it, because the kids have talent. Hopefully the guys that are getting paid figure it out and quickly!



GO IRISH!!!