COVID-19

[RDU Irish]

The vaccines have more evidence than any prior approved vaccine. We had our 1st dead healthy teen last month in Seattle. This kills and maims the old and young alike with mortality being higher in everyone over the age of 4 than the seasonal flu.

Suicide and drug overdoses are up dramatically more than one teen per month, not to mention the non-lethal addiction and abuse increases. Nobody cares about the collateral damage though.

 

[PerthDomer]

Suicide and drug overdoses are up dramatically more than one teen per month, not to mention the non-lethal addition and abuse increases. Nobody cares about the collateral damage though.

So get everyone vaccinated and end the pandemic. I'd also note the secular trend was increasing teen mental health and suicides before the pandemic. This may continue to worsen after pandemic resolution for other reasons.

 

[PerthDomer]

You are more concerned than the hospital - they perform transplants on covid postiive patients and they have covid patients on the same floor as transplant patients, so she routinely provides care for both covid and transplant patients on the same shift.

It's one of the leading transplant hospitals in the nation and she works with some brilliant doctors. I assume they know what they're doing but I'm merely a mechanic who isn't going to tell the ballerinas how to dance.

I'd be far more worried about a provider or nurse shedding virus and getting a patient sick than another patient. You don't put an active covid patient in a room with a non covid patient.

 

[Armyirish47]

Suicide and drug overdoses are up dramatically more than one teen per month, not to mention the non-lethal addition and abuse increases. Nobody cares about the collateral damage though.

I've been assured repeatedly that as long as you don't die from something it is apparently not a big deal. I've been assured of this.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Which is why young, healthy folks are totally valid in waiting for more data before getting vaccinated. Why take an action if no action has statistically zero chance of harm? First and foremost a person should have the right not to harm themselves.

So wait, you're saying COVID does less harm to young, healthy folks than the vaccine? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[Wild Bill]

I'd be far more worried about a provider or nurse shedding virus and getting a patient sick than another patient. You don't put an active covid patient in a room with a non covid patient.

Yes but you can carry the virus whether you're vaccinated or not, correct? If that's the case, it seems odd that nurses would be treating covid patients and transplant patients simulataneously. As you mentioned, they could quite literally kill their patient.

So wait, you're saying COVID does less harm to young, healthy folks than the vaccine? Am I understanding you correctly?

I think he's saying waiting for more data may be in their best interest.

We have to trust the science.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I think he's saying waiting for more data may be in their best interest.

We have to trust the science.

Really, how so? COVID is worse, you know, scientifically. So those are the two options; even if someone happens to be a young, non-socializing person. You will get it and you are betting contracting it is better than vaccinating against it. Is there a 3rd door I'm unaware of?

 

[Wild Bill]

Really, how so? COVID is worse, you know, scientifically. So those are the two options; even if someone happens to be a young, non-socializing person. You will get it and you are betting contracting it is better than vaccinating against it. Is there a 3rd door I'm unaware of?

More data. It's right there in his post.

Trust the science.

 

[PerthDomer]

Yes but you can carry the virus whether you're vaccinated or not, correct? If that's the case, it seems odd that nurses would be treating covid patients and transplant patients simulataneously. As you mentioned, they could quite literally kill their patient.



I think he's saying waiting for more data may be in their best interest.

We have to trust the science.

We had the data to show the vaccine was better than the disease for teens and 20 something months ago. The risk benefit isn't even close. Those vaccinated can get infected but they have good protection vs that. They also shed virus for a much shorter period of time. The difference in spread for vaccinated and nonvaccinated is large than the reduction mask wearing confers.

 

[tussin]

Here is a study published in Nature on the safety and immune response to Moderna boosters. This is a fairly limited study given the design and sample size, but can serve as an initial indication of safety as it relates to boosters.

 

[RDU Irish]

So wait, you're saying COVID does less harm to young, healthy folks than the vaccine? Am I understanding you correctly?

I am saying we don't know yet. We DO know the risk to healthy youngsters is miniscule so the bar is much higher for the vaccine than the 90 year old COPD crowd. Specifically, kids.

 

[TorontoGold]

I am saying we don't know yet. We DO know the risk to healthy youngsters is miniscule so the bar is much higher for the vaccine than the 90 year old COPD crowd. Specifically, kids.

Your position is that - from the data of infected people there's enough data to make a determination on long term effects, but for a vaccine there isn't enough data?

 

[NorthDakota]

Your position is that - from the data of infected people there's enough data to make a determination on long term effects, but for a vaccine there isn't enough data?

The armchair scientists crack me up.

90% of medical shit goes over my head so I just text my buddy from Mayo who is an anesthesia doctor. He said get the shot so I did lmaooo

 

[RDU Irish]

Your position is that - from the data of infected people there's enough data to make a determination on long term effects, but for a vaccine there isn't enough data?

"I am saying we don't know yet." In regards to long term issues with either. The vax has a one year shorter evaluation period than the virus FFS. I don't consider two years to be "long term" and I don't consider 12 to be the same as 22 from a physical development standpoint. I also don't think taking your chances with Covid is unreasonable for people contemplating getting pregnant now or in the near future. If I am 300 pounds at any of those ages or situations I am getting the shot though.

Are you denying that risk decreases with age or that co-morbidities substantially increase risk? Those seem to be known issues at this point.

Seriously some folks won't be happy until everyone is scared shitless of this thing. Make your choices and move on with your lives already.

 

[Valpodoc85]

As I have said earlier in this tread, covid is endemic. You will come in contact with the virus at some point. The facts support the risks associated with the vaccine are minuscule compared to the risks associated with the virus. Arguing we don’t know all the risks associated with virus or vaccine ignores this fact

 

[RDU Irish]

As I have said earlier in this tread, covid is endemic. You will come in contact with the virus at some point. The facts support the risks associated with the vaccine are minuscule compared to the risks associated with the virus. Arguing we don’t know all the risks associated with virus or vaccine ignores this fact

Inability to admit risk is not uniform depreciates your valid point.

 

[TorontoGold]

"I am saying we don't know yet." In regards to long term issues with either. The vax has a one year shorter evaluation period than the virus FFS. I don't consider two years to be "long term" and I don't consider 12 to be the same as 22 from a physical development standpoint. I also don't think taking your chances with Covid is unreasonable for people contemplating getting pregnant now or in the near future. If I am 300 pounds at any of those ages or situations I am getting the shot though.

Are you denying that risk decreases with age or that co-morbidities substantially increase risk? Those seem to be known issues at this point.

Seriously some folks won't be happy until everyone is scared shitless of this thing. Make your choices and move on with your lives already.

Which vaccines have shown to have negative long term side effects? What data is there that supports the stance of not vaccinating a child?

At what point is there enough data for you to be comfortable with a vaccine?

Where did I say anything that denies risk? Show me.

 

[RDU Irish]

Which vaccines have shown to have negative long term side effects? What data is there that supports the stance of not vaccinating a child?

At what point is there enough data for you to be comfortable with a vaccine?

Where did I say anything that denies risk? Show me.

You see - when I clarify my position and ask you to clarify yours you get defensive rather than every answering a clear and direct question. You think admitting something will discredit you where reality is - your inability to admit the obvious completely discredits you.

Are you denying that risk decreases with age or that co-morbidities substantially increase risk?

I'll wait.

 

[TorontoGold]

You see - when I clarify my position and ask you to clarify yours you get defensive rather than every answering a clear and direct question. You think admitting something will discredit you where reality is - your inability to admit the obvious completely discredits you.

Are you denying that risk decreases with age or that co-morbidities substantially increase risk?

I'll wait.

I never disagreed with you on risk increases with age or that co-morbs increase risk. That's obvious. Can't believe I have to type that out, but here we are.

So, now that I did 2+2:

Which vaccines have shown to have negative long term side effects? What data is there that supports the stance of not vaccinating a child?

At what point is there enough data for you to be comfortable with a vaccine?

 

[Wild Bill]

I never disagreed with you on risk increases with age or that co-morbs increase risk. That's obvious. Can't believe I have to type that out, but here we are.

So, now that I did 2+2:

Which vaccines have shown to have negative long term side effects? What data is there that supports the stance of not vaccinating a child?

At what point is there enough data for you to be comfortable with a vaccine?

Fda approval and eliminating the blanket immunity the feds gave pharmaceutical companies is a good start.

It's hard to believe the level of trust the public still has in pharmaceutical companies given their history. Never underestimate good propaganda

 

[ab2cmiller]

If I had a kid in elementary school, no way would I be vaccinating them if/when they become available. Almost zero risk.

Yes I understand that there are currently no vaccines that have been demonstrated to have negative long term side effects, but the bottom line is it hasn't been around long enough to really know for sure and certainly hasn't been for children.

Would have to be approaching 5 years of history for me to make that leap given the minute amount of risk. If the risk shows to increase substantially, then my view would be altered.

 

[Trait Expectations]

Inability to admit risk is not uniform depreciates your valid point.

Is this what you are saying? "See, by you not admitting there is risk on your side you prove your argument is insufficient".

Risk AntiVaxx >>> Risk Vaxx ; this is evaluated across all possible permutations of age, demographic, comorbidities and any other stupid factor you want to add for consideration.

Does that fucking compute?

 

[Trait Expectations]

More data. It's right there in his post.

Trust the science.

You keep using that phrase...

 

[RDU Irish]

I never disagreed with you on risk increases with age or that co-morbs increase risk. That's obvious. Can't believe I have to type that out, but here we are.

So, now that I did 2+2:

Which vaccines have shown to have negative long term side effects? What data is there that supports the stance of not vaccinating a child?

At what point is there enough data for you to be comfortable with a vaccine?

LOL - so petulant. Not disagreeing is not the same as agreeing. You can never concede anything to your opposition. Really impressive - even more impressive that you think it builds credibility.

I have natural immunity and I am comfortable with my level of immunity being adequate - my immunity is superior to the vaccine, why is my vaccination non-negotiable? I have little concern about my children being exposed to covid and see no reason to take action. They have probably had it and shook it off like any other virus. We will all get flu shots. I am more compelled to track down a shingles vax for myself than a covid jab.

 

[Greenore]

My friend's daughter was involved in a serious motorcycle accident (driver killed on impact) 12 days ago. It happened at approximately 10:00 p.m. She was in a coma and in critical condition. He was notified about an hour after the accident. He was unable to be with her due to Covid protocols. After almost 20 hours and confirmed negative tests, he and his wife were finally allowed to visit their daughter.

This past Monday they were able to remove the breathing tube. She smiled at him and was trying to process what had happened. The extent of her injuries is still undetermined. Within minutes it was released that the Calgary hospital was undergoing a Covid shutdown due to a number of cases on her floor.

My friend and his wife were told they would have to leave and it would likely be at least three or four days before they would be granted permission to access. Shitty, but fair enough.

As they walked out of the hospital, tears in their eyes, they were met by a large group of anti-mask/anti-vax protesters at the entrance.

Can you imagine?

Be safe and be respectful.

Cheers and Go Irish!!

 

[TorontoGold]

LOL - so petulant. Not disagreeing is not the same as agreeing. You can never concede anything to your opposition. Really impressive - even more impressive that you think it builds credibility.

I have natural immunity and I am comfortable with my level of immunity being adequate - my immunity is superior to the vaccine, why is my vaccination non-negotiable? I have little concern about my children being exposed to covid and see no reason to take action. They have probably had it and shook it off like any other virus. We will all get flu shots. I am more compelled to track down a shingles vax for myself than a covid jab.

Curious to see if those that admonish my tone, will do something similar here? Or that's only saved for me lol guess we'll see!

I'm glad you have some form of immunity and are willing to get other vaccines.

Essentially what I'm gathering is you/Bill/Miller have determined that a COVID vaccine for a child poses more risk than contracting it?

 

[ab2cmiller]

Curious to see if those that admonish my tone, will do something similar here? Or that's only saved for me lol guess we'll see!

I'm glad you have some form of immunity and are willing to get other vaccines.

Essentially what I'm gathering is you/Bill/Miller have determined that a COVID vaccine for a child poses more risk than contracting it?

For elementary age kids with no comorbidities, yes.

 

[PerthDomer]

For elementary age kids with no comorbidities, yes.

We don't have studies on elementary aged kids. We do for middle schoolers and it's clear risk of disease > risk of vaccine.

 

[Irish#1]

If I had a kid in elementary school, no way would I be vaccinating them if/when they become available. Almost zero risk.

Yes I understand that there are currently no vaccines that have been demonstrated to have negative long term side effects, but the bottom line is it hasn't been around long enough to really know for sure and certainly hasn't been for children.

Would have to be approaching 5 years of history for me to make that leap given the minute amount of risk. If the risk shows to increase substantially, then my view would be altered.

I've mentioned before that I got the vaccines, but this is spot on. It's only been a year and a half. Hard to tell what the effects will be. Could be nil, or could be some long term side effects. Is five years long enough? I have no idea, but it's better than 1 1/2 years.

 

[TorontoGold]

Interesting article by UAB

https://www.uab.edu/reporter/resour...de-effects-of-covid-vaccines-3-things-to-know

Essentially shows why there isn't a long term risk, as it would present it's self within the first few weeks. As well, the science behind mrna is designed to degrade quickly.