COVID-19

[Circa]

Oh heck, I´ll just paste your post again because I really think it´s worth getting read, not covered over.

Uhhhggghhh.


Such a hard read after the first sentence is "I work for"
My mom never taught me to cough in an elbow either... Maybe I'm just behind the ball.

I have no idea why. It is what it is.

 

[JurDocDuLac]

It's important to recognize that we use a lot of masks in this country! One hospital system (about 50 hospitals) that we supply uses 700,000 per day. For perspective, the reason this crisis was coming and everyone knew it is that there were and are mostly all produced in Wuhan. Whether the virus ever came to our shores or not, we were going to have a crisis. Manufacturers are very slow to make changes in process and distribution patterns.

This is what really scares me.
I just had no idea how fragile our situation is.

As a country, no matter who the President is, we really need to get our act together on access to essential manufacturing and distribution, with a big "hurry up" in medical and pharmaceutical.

 

[TorontoGold]

<iframe src="https://videos.utahgunexchange.com/embed/OM3YYMzo9Iy8p6S" frameborder="0" width="700" height="400" allowfullscreen></iframe>

LOL. IDK. It's a mess out there.



The weirdness Is not held to our Continent...


<iframe src="https://videos.utahgunexchange.com/embed/ZiHOLL9qSVqKaiT" frameborder="0" width="700" height="400" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lmao a video from Gab - Wiki's description of Gab "Gab is an English-language social media website known for its far-right userbase. The site has been widely described as a safe haven for extremists including neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and the alt-right."

Have we checked in with Jacob Wohl? Mike Cernovich?

 

[ACamp1900]

Wait, we are now using Wikipedia to discredit other sources?? 2020 is Vegas at midnight lit,...

 

[Legacy]

I don't post here much, but I'd like to share the following. Just a general response to the group.

I work for a big distributor of Medical devices and supplies. We absolutely knew that there was going to be a PPE shortage back in January. We began putting customers on what is called "allocation" which means all customers were permitted to buy only a percentage (70% at the start I believe) of their normal amount. Customers not previously having us as a vendor were not allowed to purchase at all. By April, we had staffed up and innovated a way to decontaminate the disposable facial coverings and N95 masks., and we sold hundreds of thousands We were blocked from being able to label these masks as anything more than "facial coverings" by the FDA. Perhaps there was a good reason for this, and perhaps it was political. I will also say have to say that Project Airbridge was valuable in cutting the timeline of the delivery of millions of masks. It's important to recognize that we use a lot of masks in this country! One hospital system (about 50 hospitals) that we supply uses 700,000 per day. For perspective, the reason this crisis was coming and everyone knew it is that there were and are mostly all produced in Wuhan. Whether the virus ever came to our shores or not, we were going to have a crisis. Manufacturers are very slow to make changes in process and distribution patterns. The Defense Production Act would have forced them to act and perhaps protected their losses that would have been incurred, but it was never used.

The reason that the message changed over time IMHO is obvious and it's unfortunate that it became politicized or still serves to confuse people. The PPE crisis was so acute when it started that the CDC and others were hesitant to recommend their widespread use because we didn't know how bad this shortage would get. Don't get me wrong, it got bad - and has recovered quite a bit, and I guess now it's coming back a bit - although I don't here as much about it internally. It's easy to look back now and see where the 'high water' mark of the shortage was, but in February, there was no way to predict that. They simply had to prioritize the most resources to those with the most acute demand. And if you don't believe that, you're really not gonna like it when you learn how a free market medical system works.

Of course a facial covering works. Mostly to protect others. The CDC was never confused about this, but leaders had to prioritize needs.

Masks work.
Anything works.
Some things work better than others.
Coughing into your elbow works.
Your mom taught you this.
But masks work.

Don't get confused by the politics. Even pre-Covid you would never consider a surgeon who doesn't use a mask. Think about that for a minute.

A distributor's perspective in these situations is appreciated with insight that they (and assumably the Admin) needed to restrict supply. Then, prior to HHS Secretary declaring a Health Emergency on Jan 31, would have been a good time to review the supplies in the National Stockpile or to invoke the Defense Production Act while working with manufacturers to provide these life-saving protective equipment. DPA was invoked on April 2. How many times did some blowhard say that states and hospitals had all the PPE they needed? It all came down to politics and image and, frankly, ignorance of basic medicine and public health.

We've talked before on this thread about the Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and of the necessity of wearing n95 respirators for single use only in negative pressure environments for patient care, disposing of all afterwards.
Using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)

In the current situation of aerosol-based transmission with rooms filled with COVID patients and without air circulation control, at least provide PPE dedicated for each room/patient. We've had months to ramp up production with the CDC projections for infections with various scenarios of reopenings.

We were told by Pence on March 19th briefing that Honeywell alone is repurposing a factory that was destined for Mexico to produce another 120 million masks per year. When asked when the N95 masks would be ready, Pence said, "3M is increasing their output to 420 million a year. At production in January, they made 35 million per month at that facility." FEMA has either delivered or is sending 9.4 million N95 respirators and 20 million surgical masks to areas most impacted by the coronavirus pandemic, President Trump said.

Almost three months later and states and hospitals have learned they are on their own. To help fill some of the need when the fed gov fell short of its responsibilities taking a political tract, a non-profit clearinghouse was established - Project n95

Project N95 is the National Clearinghouse for critical personal protective equipment (PPE) and medical supplies. We protect healthcare and frontline workers by matching procurement teams with vetted suppliers.

Why the DPA has not been used more fully is a mystery but the prevailing messaging seems to be "All is Well" and denying facts.

 

[Legacy]

.

 

[Legacy]

Good article.

America still doesn’t have enough N95 masks

 

[Irish#1]

A distributor's perspective in these situations is appreciated with insight that they (and assumably the Admin) needed to determine supply and demand - and to act to increase production. Then, prior to HHS Secretary declaring a Health Emergency on Jan 31, would have been a good time to review the supplies in the National Stockpile or to invoke the Defense Production Act while working with manufacturers to provide these life-saving protective equipment. DPA was invoked on April 2. How many times did some blowhard say that states and hospitals had all the PPE they needed? It all came down to politics and image and, frankly, ignorance of basic medicine and public health.

I am talking specifically about n95 respirators, not to be confused with homemade masks, facial coverings or surgical masks, etc. (No hospital system uses 700k n95 masks per day. Probably less than 1,00 per day prior to COVID) We've talked before on this thread about the Airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 and of the necessity of wearing n95 respirators for single use only in negative pressure environments for patient care, disposing of all afterwards.
Using Personal Protective Equipment (PPE)

In the current situation of aerosol-based transmission with rooms filled with COVID patients and without air circulation control, at least provide PPE dedicated for each room/patient. We've had months to ramp up production with the CDC projections for infections with various scenarios of reopenings.

We were told by Pence on March 19th briefing that Honeywell alone is repurposing a factory that was destined for Mexico to produce another 120 million masks per year. When asked when the N95 masks would be ready, Pence said, "3M is increasing their output to 420 million a year. At production in January, they made 35 million per month at that facility." FEMA has either delivered or is sending 9.4 million N95 respirators and 20 million surgical masks to areas most impacted by the coronavirus pandemic, President Trump said.

Almost three months later and states and hospitals have learned they are on their own. To help fill some of the need when the fed gov fell short of its responsibilities taking a political tract, a non-profit clearinghouse was established - Project n95


Why the DPA has not been used more fully is a mystery - but maybe that's to preserve a free market medical system. Mostly, these clowns have no clue

I work for an industrial distributor. We have a safety division that sells PPE. We took the same approach as JTLA's company in selling to our current customers first and rationing so all get some.

More to your point, we buy a ton of 3M product including N95 and all other kinds of masks/face protection. Having dealt with 3M for years, I wouldn't trust anything 3M says.

 

[Irishize]

I work for an industrial distributor. We have a safety division that sells PPE. We took the same approach as JTLA's company in selling to our current customers first and rationing so all get some.

More to your point, we buy a ton of 3M product including N95 and all other kinds of masks/face protection. Having dealt with 3M for years, I wouldn't trust anything 3M says.

Not a good year for Minnesota

 

[JurDocDuLac]

Wait, we are now using Wikipedia to discredit other sources?? 2020 is Vegas at midnight lit,...

With all most deserved due respect ACamp, it comes from frustration.

No doubt the honorable member that Toronto Gold referenced is a nice person, and given the patience shown him, a friend of many.

Still, objectively, this style of posting not only frustrates others, it inhibits a more inclusive discussion of an important topic.

For example: JTLA contributed valuable and insightful comments.
The honorable member then proceeded to put up five consecutive unrelated, in-your-face, dominating posts with no comment on JTLA´s insights. Only later did he comment on JTLA´s insights: "Uhhhggghhh. Such a hard read after the first sentence…"

In fact, 9 of 12 posts after JTL´s comments were by this honorable member, all of this disruptive design, before Legacy, Irish#1 and Irishize stepped in to get JTLA´s valuable comments back in the picture.

 

[Legacy]

I work for an industrial distributor. We have a safety division that sells PPE. We took the same approach as JTLA's company in selling to our current customers first and rationing so all get some.

More to your point, we buy a ton of 3M product including N95 and all other kinds of masks/face protection. Having dealt with 3M for years, I wouldn't trust anything 3M says.

Generally, an ICU has only one negative pressure room out of fifteen or so. Filling an ICU, ER and other floors for those less critical as well as nursing homes, etc. creates an overwhelming demand for n95s due to the aerosolizing of the virus. Distributors like JTLA and Irish#1 as well as HC professionals give us insights into the problems. Reopenings, large group gathering, refusal to observe mitigation measures adding to the surge plus the shortages. NH groups and doctors' offices are also advocating for more PPE because prioritizing is putting them second to hospitals. Not hard to understand. Certainly feedback would have been given to the feds as well as those HC professionals within the executive branch.

 

[Circa]

<iframe src="https://videos.utahgunexchange.com/embed/MhRkNjeUEZKKkvl" frameborder="0" width="700" height="400" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Copy and paste the code. As I have said. They....(who they are is obvious) want to stop communications to the truth.


Thank God for censorship!

 

[Circa]

What happened to the phrase that us Americans once used as a mantra. "The Customer is always right"?

I really want to know.

 

[Irishize]

What happened to the phrase that us Americans once used as a mantra. "The Customer is always right"?

I really want to know.

For better or for worse, eBay still abides by that mantra.

 

[SonofOahu]

I listen to a lot of sports radio and a lot of these guys, especially in college sports media, are pushing for spring football being the "safe idea." Effin stupid.

It's safer than Fall. Holding large events when both influenza and COVID are circulating will be absolutely crazy.

You would acknowledge that you're talking about identified cases which for the US is largely a function of the testing capacity ramping up, right? If you had the same testing capacity back in March, the picture would be vastly different. More testing is good, but just want there to be some transparency around what is driving those numbers.

No, I don't think this is true. The spread was definitely much lower in March, save for NY, Seattle and SF. You would have seen many more hospitals at capacity. The numbers are going up because the numbers are going up.

# of cases is a meaningless stat on it's own. Most of the MSM is focusing only # of cases for their Panic Porn.

# of cases in relation to % positive is a little better stat

# of hospitalizations is a better stat

# of deaths is the best stat as long as the methodology of what is deemed a Covid death doesn't change over time.

This is a false narrative. Yes, the # of hospitalizations and deaths are important, but the total number of cases is important because of two reasons:

1. To drive public behavior in the direction you need it to go
2. To lower the vector risks

 

[SonofOahu]

In the early stages of this illness, we were checking the CDC site 3x a day because guidance changes were occurring so frequently. Also, some of those directives were purposely misleading to prevent panic and anarchy. The mask guidance, in particular, was purposely misleading.

I believe most, if not all; on these threads are compliant in wearing a mask in public. That stated, I can see why there’s so many citizens who are not. The mixed messaging from Trump, the media, the CDC, the medical community, state/federal leaders has been a shit show and littered w/ enough misinformation that there’s no shortage of conspiracy theories & arguments over wearing a mask.

THREAD:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The CDC didn’t change their recommendations about face masks until early April. <a href="https://t.co/chq5Aqnfwx">https://t.co/chq5Aqnfwx</a></p>— Elias Atienza (@AtienzaElias) <a href="https://twitter.com/AtienzaElias/status/1282112170667528193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 12, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And dumb ass Dr. Fauci himself went back and forth like a ping pong ball about the mask.

I bet half the mask don’t work. Those sleeves people wear are trash. I have seen 3 different kind and th print they have on them bleeds right through the inside of them. Some of the surgical mask that companies are selling aren’t even rated.

Look, I wrote my self-quoted post months ago: The mask guidance was purposely misleading because panic was going to cause an even greater shortage for the front-line professionals who need those items. We were up shit's creek, in February and March; we're just slightly better off, now. We'll be really fucked, come December/January when both influenza and Sars-CoV-2 are hitting.

The masks the general public have access to are not meant to protect you, they are to protect everyone else from whatever you may spread. If each person wears a mask, it's mutual protection. That's the problem, some Americans are too selfish and stupid to look out for the common good.

 

[phork]

Look, I wrote my self-quoted post months ago: The mask guidance was purposely misleading because panic was going to cause an even greater shortage for the front-line professionals who need those items. We were up shit's creek, in February and March; we're just slightly better off, now. We'll be really fucked, come December/January when both influenza and Sars-CoV-2 are hitting.

The masks the general public have access to are not meant to protect you, they are to protect everyone else from whatever you may spread. If each person wears a mask, it's mutual protection. That's the problem, some Americans are too selfish and stupid to look out for the common good.

This is what most people arent grasping. If I see another meme about "If wearing a mask protects you then why do I have to wear one" I am going to scream. They are to stop droplets from exiting you and going to other places.
The other problem is that people are ignoring actual science and letting their high school buddy, who probably failed chem and bio, feed them information.

 

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by Polish Leppy 22 View Post
I listen to a lot of sports radio and a lot of these guys, especially in college sports media, are pushing for spring football being the "safe idea." Effin stupid.

It's safer than Fall. Holding large events when both influenza and COVID are circulating will be absolutely crazy.

Originally Posted by Legacy93 View Post
You would acknowledge that you're talking about identified cases which for the US is largely a function of the testing capacity ramping up, right? If you had the same testing capacity back in March, the picture would be vastly different. More testing is good, but just want there to be some transparency around what is driving those numbers.

No, I don't think this is true. The spread was definitely much lower in March, save for NY, Seattle and SF. You would have seen many more hospitals at capacity. The numbers are going up because the numbers are going up.

Originally Posted by ab2cmiller View Post
# of cases is a meaningless stat on it's own. Most of the MSM is focusing only # of cases for their Panic Porn.

# of cases in relation to % positive is a little better stat

# of hospitalizations is a better stat

# of deaths is the best stat as long as the methodology of what is deemed a Covid death doesn't change over time.

This is a false narrative. Yes, the # of hospitalizations and deaths are important, but the total number of cases is important because of two reasons:

1. To drive public behavior in the direction you need it to go
2. To lower the vector risks

I have a family member who got COVID in Seattle while it raged there. From their description of symptoms and diagnosis in the ER, I'm sure they met normal criteria for admission but were not, probably because the ER docs needed to save beds for even sicker patients. She got a call from the physician the next morning to check on her. Fortunately, she improved with Zithromax for her pneumonia. She came back COVID positive.

You've previously posted about the "hard decisions" that needed to be made during this pandemic. I can imagine this may be the situation in those states now seeing their surge. Without point of care testing, there's the chance a patient without COVID is admitted to a hospital full of those patients.

I think scaling back the RNC Convention in Jax to just the 2,500 delegates is a great move.

As far as masks,
Here are the states requiring masks in public


The other two factors to consider for the fall in Florida are their long term care facilities - if COVID hits there - and hurricane season.
Facts About Long Term Care In Florida (Florida Dept of Health)

Key Facts
- There are 691 licensed nursing homes in Florida, representing approximately 84,448 beds (Source: Agency for Health Care Administration)
- The estimated number of residents is 71,000 (roughly 85% occupancy at any given time)
(cont)

Consideinrg those not admitted who would have been based on standards and diminishing bed availability does affect the hospitalization stats may make those difficult to compare.

 

[Irishize]

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/herd-immunity-coronavirus/614035/

 

[Legacy93]

No, I don't think this is true. The spread was definitely much lower in March, save for NY, Seattle and SF. You would have seen many more hospitals at capacity. The numbers are going up because the numbers are going up.

Hospital capacity isn't as good of an indicator of spread as you're implying. Many states shut down elective surgeries in March/April to create extra space to treat COVID-patients. That helped keep hospitals from hitting capacity.

Look at the testing levels right now - ~750,000 tests per day, 65,000 positive (positivity rate of 8.5%) vs. End of April - 275,000 test, 36,000 positive (positivity rate of 14.2%)
Source: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/testing/individual-states

I'm not saying it's not spreading - but its very important to note that when a testing increases three-fold there is naturally going to be an increase in cases (only two-fold in this case). If you assume (1) the disease spreads indiscriminately and (2) the testing distribution has been consistent over time, then the case positivity rate is the relevant metric - which had been declining over time (and is now increasing). I'm interested to understand your perspective a bit more.

 

[Circa]

This video Is great. It tends to go to the Trump campaign at the end, but It explains things that are very easy to see, and understand.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kqlmMld3IJA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If nothing else comes out of this video... It's showing the divide our politicians and media has wanted for a long time.
It's not left or right. It's us.

 

[TorontoGold]

This video Is great. It tends to go to the Trump campaign at the end, but It explains things that are very easy to see, and understand.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kqlmMld3IJA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Serious question - do you believe that the Obama admin sent funding to the Wuhan lab to work on a coronavirus to kill American citizens?

On the rally point made in the video - The Trump campaign cancelled the rallies - https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...ls-rally-in-alabama-as-coronavirus-cases-rise

 

[Circa]

This 25 minute video might be the difference between you staying healthy and getting sick. Stay healthy my friends. Do more thinking too....



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XFnUGSr3fw0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In the history of our fight against the flu, and them telling the restaurant owners to post handwashing techniques. We still fight the flu every day of our lives. Wonder why this virus Is different?

 

[Circa]

Serious question - do you believe that the Obama admin sent funding to the Wuhan lab to work on a coronavirus to kill American citizens?

On the rally point made in the video - The Trump campaign cancelled the rallies - https://www.usnews.com/news/politic...ls-rally-in-alabama-as-coronavirus-cases-rise

I'm not completely sure about anything., and I don't think Obama did anything on purpose to hurt us as The American people.
BTW. Why don't you talk about Trudeau more.... LOL..
He's got medicare for all. Tell me how good that is up there.

I'm currently on board for it here. When I ask average everyday guys that just watch mainstream, they tell me we'll all be dead because the dr's won't get paid....?

I'm honestly curious.

 

[Circa]

It's safer than Fall. Holding large events when both influenza and COVID are circulating will be absolutely crazy.



No, I don't think this is true. The spread was definitely much lower in March, save for NY, Seattle and SF. You would have seen many more hospitals at capacity. The numbers are going up because the numbers are going up.



This is a false narrative. Yes, the # of hospitalizations and deaths are important, but the total number of cases is important because of two reasons:

1. To drive public behavior in the direction you need it to go
2. To lower the vector risks

Finally. I'm seeing retractions from dr's that say they know.

We are all starting to see that we didn't know all along and the information that doctors where given was Class Consciously Criminal. The CCC; I just made that up. Prove me wrong.

 

[TorontoGold]

I'm not completely sure about anything., and I don't think Obama did anything on purpose to hurt us as The American people.
BTW. Why don't you talk about Trudeau more.... LOL..
He's got medicare for all. Tell me how good that is up there.

I'm currently on board for it here. When I ask average everyday guys that just watch mainstream, they tell me we'll all be dead because the dr's won't get paid....?

I'm honestly curious.

You don't want to wear a mask to help someone for a nominal cost, yet are onboard for subsidizing someones health care costs.

 

[Circa]

You don't want to wear a mask to help someone for a nominal cost, yet are onboard for subsidizing someones health care costs.

I didn't say that. Masks are the new union pension plan and your accusation isn't worth the time.... Especially since you can't explain medicare for all in Canada.

We are being forced to wear dirty masks. Of course I feel abused already.

 

[TorontoGold]

I didn't say that. Masks are the new union pension plan and your accusation isn't worth the time.... Especially since you can't explain medicare for all in Canada.

We are being forced to wear dirty masks. Of course I feel abused already.

I was just pointing out it's a huge step to go from a discussion on wearing masks to M4A, that's all.

 

[Circa]

I was just pointing out it's a huge step to go from a discussion on wearing masks to M4A, that's all.

Ok. In our miniature world of talking about things that are for the best.
M4A couldn't be any closer to the reality of the politicians that have created our current delima.

I think we agree. On 1 aspect.

 

[317Irish]

Ok. In our miniature world of talking about things that are for the best.
M4A couldn't be any closer to the reality of the politicians that have created our current delima.

I think we agree. On 1 aspect.

Props to Toronto for responding to some of these posts. You seriously just throw out a bunch of fecal residue hoping for something that sticks, backed by nothing other than another conspiracy theorists social media posting? You try to come off as the unbiased, unaltered, intellectual that sees through all the mainstream talking points (in theory something I would get on board with), but in reality you are essentially just another bot feeding doubt to every single story that exists. Use your head for once to cipher through the data/statistics. You go far to the extreme that it’s hard to understand why you debate the legitimacy of EVERYTHING just for the sake of it and with your only evidence being taking points that were mysteriously blackballed by social media outlets. We all know what the MSM is driven by..... doesn’t mean every detail that comes about is wrong. Do yourself a favor.. think more, post less. Or maybe, bizarrely, think less... Idk man.