College Athlete Unions?

[FearTheBeard]

If you walk into Walmart and buy a 60 inch television, you still have to pay for it even if you get home and shoot it with a 12-guage. "Value" is based on what the University is giving up, regardless of whether the player chooses to use it or not.

Yep. You cant keep blaming schools for guys that go there and only want to play football. They can get a quality education if they want to, guys at ND do it all the time. Yeah scholarships should be 4 years but in no way are players at a disadvantage. Its not a job, if they want a job they can leave school and work. Theyre rewarded with TONS of benefits for playing football. Im in college now and i guarantee that theres many others who would gladly put up with all the training and practices in exchange for free food, tuition, housing, and clothes

 

[wizards8507]

Aren't you the one that posted the reading levels of players?

Players taking "football" classes and having "tutors"?

Does your analogy work for that?

The problem isn't with the system itself. The problem is with execution and enforcement. i.e. "You come play for us and you get an education" is a valid philosophy, but it needs to be carried out by educators and administrators. The problems we have now with illiterate kids and cheating aren't problems with the rules, but the lack of enforcement.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

The problem isn't with the system itself. The problem is with execution and enforcement. i.e. "You come play for us and you get an education" is a valid philosophy, but it needs to be carried out by educators and administrators. The problems we have now with illiterate kids and cheating aren't problems with the rules, but the lack of enforcement.

And that isn't a systematic problem?

 

[wizards8507]

And that isn't a systematic problem?

Sure it is. But the solution is "enforce the rules," not "pay players."

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

Sure it is. But the solution is "enforce the rules," not "pay players."

I'm getting lost here.

So, are we now agreeing that there is a problem with the system?

 

[wizards8507]

I'm getting lost here.

So, are we now agreeing that there is a problem with the system?

It's like a building with sound archetectural design but no routine maintenance. It ends up collapsing. Is it a problem with the "building"? Yes, in the sense that it's broken. No, in the sense that it should have been just fine if maintained properly.

The written down, by-the-book "system" is fine. But good rules are useless if nobody follows them.

 

[GowerND11]

And that isn't a systematic problem?

It's a systemic problem through our education programs to be honest. We've had plenty of education discussions on this board, and most boils down to the ineffective NCLB Act that forced schools to essentially dumb down to the lowest kid in class so he/she can have the proper test scores. Unfortunately schools are manipulating tests, passing students they shouldn't, not challenging other students, implementing far too many IEPs, and overall lacking the programs and quality American education had prior when it was left up to state and local enforcement and implementation.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

It's like a building with sound archetectural design but no routine maintenance. It ends up collapsing. Is it a problem with the "building"? Yes, in the sense that it's broken. No, in the sense that it should have been just fine if maintained properly.

The written down, by-the-book "system" is fine. But good rules are useless if nobody follows them.

I don't think the lack of "routine maintenance" is the source of the problem. When educational institutions aren't trying to educate their students then it goes way beyond "maintenance"

Secondly, the fact that nobody is following the rules should hint that something is going verrry wrong.

 

[wizards8507]

I don't think the lack of "routine maintenance" is the source of the problem. When educational institutions aren't trying to educate their students then it goes way beyond "maintenance"

Secondly, the fact that nobody is following the rules should hint that something is going verrry wrong.

I think we agree with our diagnosis but we disagree with the solution. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I say: People aren't following the rules. Make them.

You say: People aren't following the rules. Change the rules or make new ones.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

I think we agree with our diagnosis but we disagree with the solution. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I say: People aren't following the rules. Make them.

You say: People aren't following the rules and the people helping/encouraging/turning a blind eye to this are authority figures. So, who is going to "make them" follow the rules?

In bold.

 

[wizards8507]

In bold.

And therein lies the rub, eh? My guess is that the tipping point won't come until the NDs, Stanfords, and Northwesterns of the world get sick enough that they demand change from within.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

And therein lies the rub, eh? My guess is that the tipping point won't come until the NDs, Stanfords, and Northwesterns of the world get sick enough that they demand change from within.

But I thought even ND had "football majors" and "tutors"?

Where are all the outraged students at universities across the nation that see the cheating? fake classes? Low grad rates?

Outraged professors? Administrators?

 

[stlnd01]

And therein lies the rub, eh? My guess is that the tipping point won't come until the NDs, Stanfords, and Northwesterns of the world get sick enough that they demand change from within.

Or the players demand change from within. By organizing and demanding reasonable things like a four-year scholarship, which, coupled with real enforcement of things like APR standards, would at least compel the worst actors to clean up their game and give players the quality education that is supposed to be their side of this bargain.

I've got no problem with unpaid players (though boosting the stipend would seem reasonable) as long as they're actually getting a valuable degree (which, yes, costs easily north of $100,000 for the rest of us). But too many schools boot kids early or push them into useless majors or whatever.

You can say that's on the kids to take advantage of the opportunity provided, and to some degree that's true. But it's also on the schools to be serious about letting them. Notre Dame and Northwestern do (though even we've occasionally had issues over the years). Too many schools don't bother with that as long as they can play on Saturday.