"Clear Red Line" on Iran's Nuclear Program?

[domerfreak]

Another cry for the "holy war" let them fight each other. If they cannot play nice thats not our problem. Support from a distance i understand that, but we do not need to be neck deep in this conflict.

 

[NDFan4Life]

People seem to omit the fact that Iran is being backed by China & Russia. If war with Iran were to come about, there's a very distinct possibility that China & Russia would get involved also. I'm not exactly keen on witnessing WW3 in my lifetime.

 

[Irish YJ]

I agree to an extent with Bluto. Very, very long history here. Not jumping on either side, as both have done their share to embrace conflict. I'm not saying that the Jewish population does not deserve their own nation, but also not saying I agree with the UK making the decision in 1917 to support a National Home.

As a US citizen, on the surface I weigh simple risks, and draw from recent experience. That said, I prefer peaceful resolution, but if pushed would ultimatley support Israel. Not because I believe in the Jewish cause and their right to Israel, but because of possible alternatives of inaction.

Just very sad that religion still pushes the world to the brink. I'm not saying Christianity or Catholicism is perfect (we have done our share of atrocities in the name of religion to both Islam and Judaism in the past). We have however for the most part separated church and state, which IMO is fundamental to any long term world peace.

 

[ND NYC]

oh how i wish the price of oil was near $30 a gallon and not $100 a gallon.

there is no way AT ALL that Ahmadinijad and also the religious leaders in Iran are still, or would remain in power had it not been for the price of oil running up over last decade and giving them the $$ (read: control and power) they need to keep the Iraninan masses tamped down.

the Iranian people are bubbling under the surface out there to join the modern world. in fact their persian society is MUCH more MODERN than the great majority of the Arab workd and the Middle east.
it wouldnt surpise me in the least to see a "Persian Spring" at some point (remember the Green Revolution couple years ago).

keep in mind the real reason we "won" the cold war was because we spent and gave signals for continued military spending at historical levels all whilst the Soviet Union saw the price of oil from $40 a barrel in 1980s dollars all the way below $10 a barrel. the oil money was all they had. Iran--same thing.

 

[Irish YJ]

People seem to omit the fact that Iran is being backed by China & Russia. If war with Iran were to come about, there's a very distinct possibility that China & Russia would get involved also. I'm not exactly keen on witnessing WW3 in my lifetime.

I think both Russia and China find convenient reasons to back away, primarily for economic reasons. If the West cut off $ to either one, both countries would suffer. I'd lay dollars that the US and Russia form a back room deal, and China decides to supply arms but refrains from any other support at the end of the day.

Russia, although supportive in the past, simply does not trust Iran. If it becomes inconvenient for Russia, they will bail in a minute. China's primary interest is oil. 10% of China's oil comes from Iran. Again though, in the long run, China weighs the financial impacts and ultimately bails on Iran. Likely another backroom deal (hey, support us, level Iran, and take the 10% free for the next 20 years...).

 

[Irish YJ]

the Iranian people are bubbling under the surface out there to join the modern world. in fact their persian society is MUCH more MODERN than the great majority of the Arab workd and the Middle east.
it wouldnt surpise me in the least to see a "Persian Spring" at some point (remember the Green Revolution couple years ago).

I would not be shocked at all to see some type of revolution in the next 5 years. I do believe however that even the modern thinking individuals still have hatred for the state of Irael. My cousin married a progressive Persian. Great guy, modern, and accepted that his Italian wife is Catholic (and raising his 3 kids Catholic). He however, is still no fan of Israel. Not in a fundamental way, but a more historical way. If that makes since.....

 

[WaveDomer]

Come one. This statement insinuates that the Iranian leaders are completely insane and seek their own self destruction and the destruction of the entire state of Iran.

Here's an interesting op ed on this subject. The most interesting point being that "if" Iran ever gained nukes and launched a nuclear attack on Israel it would kill a huge number of Muslims and the fallout would kill and effect populations in Egypt, Syria, Lebenon... ect.

James Zogby: Dealing With Iran

Anyhow, off to work. Enjoy the bye weekend. What is up with Stanford's offense? Haha

It's not necessarily sanity, but motive as well. Look, leaders in Iran have acted a certain way with support for Hezbollah, making highly aggressive statements, etc. So I think it's fair to question whether or not Mutually Assured Destruction or containment would work the same way it did in the past. Plus, it's a cruddy threat to live under, so there's that. And again, our differences with the Soviet Union were largely ideological. That's not what's going on with Iran / Israel. We also had fairly open communications and dealings with the Soviet Union during the Cold War. And despite that, it almost came to a head during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We don't have that communication with Iran.

The other thing to think about is that if Iran did launch against Israel, the United States could not lawfully retaliate for them. Israel could do it if they were being attacked, but there's a question as to whether they would do that. One of the things that was said when they attacked the reactor in Iraq was that they didn't want M.A.D. because the citizens of Baghdad weren't their enemies. A preventative attack can be targeted against a military installation. Mutually Assured Destruction means that you kill everyone, which in truth is saying that everyone is insane.

All of that taken in, I think it's fair to question if containment would work.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

Haha that is a very funny photo.

Although this website will expose the myth that is Australia's crazy dangerous wildlife.

Australia’s Dangerous Animals: The Truth About Deaths.

(Note: No one has died from a spider bite since 1979.)

 

[ND NYC]

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[Redbar]

The Arabs aren't interested in a compromise. Never have been.

The consequence is their elimination. Extinction. The first battle the Israelis lose is the last battle they lose.


Who have we "taken out" on their behalf?

I don't recall American Military being involved in 1948 when the Arab nation collectively attacked.

Don't recall American Military in Six Day War or Yom Kipper either.

And didn't they take out a nuclear reactor under construction with an air raid a generation ago?

Are you saying we took out Saddam, Bin *****, or even Qaddafi for Israel!

Neither are the Israeli's.

 

[Redbar]

Netenyahu is a warmonger just like Ahmadinejad. Both of these are horrible states interested in genocide of the other side and neither should be getting support from the United States. This country will have failed if we let Israel drag us into a war because they are power-crazy.

Reps!

 

[Redbar]

Another cry for the "holy war" let them fight each other. If they cannot play nice thats not our problem. Support from a distance i understand that, but we do not need to be neck deep in this conflict.

and...Reps!

 

[IrishLax]

Haha that is a very funny photo.

Although this website will expose the myth that is Australia's crazy dangerous wildlife.

Australia’s Dangerous Animals: The Truth About Deaths.

(Note: No one has died from a spider bite since 1979.)

haha just because people don't die doesn't mean their critters aren't scary....

For instance, no one dies from tarantula wasps in Arizona.... but those things scared the hell out of me when I was on the border.

 

[IrishLax]

I fail to see how this is "not our problem" when:

1. You're talking about a Muslim theocracy developing nuclear technology.
2. The only people that f*ck with us in the modern era are Muslim

To those saying this isn't a big deal or we should stay out of it... how do you not see the logical conclusion from Iran developing nuclear technology? First they get the technology... next they get weapons... next some radical with an "in" gets suitcase nukes... next they try to smuggle them into our country... next eventually one gets through and they blow up DC/NYC.

Iran cannot be allowed to progress down this path as long as they have this sham of a government. Period.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Neither are the Israeli's.

The Israelis don't want to annihilate every Muslim in the world. They want to be left alone.

If you really think the Israelis and Iranians are on equal footing, you are an anti-Semite.

 

[RallySonsOfND]

The Israelis don't want to annihilate every Muslim in the world. They want to be left alone.

If you really think the Israelis and Iranians are on equal footing, you are an anti-Semite.

REPS

 

[PraetorianND]

If someone said they would kill you, would you take it seriously, or would you shrug it off? Now what if they said that they not only wanted to kill you, but they would also go after everyone that you knew and loved and all that you hold dear, to literally wipe you off the face of the map? Now what if they told you that not only did they want to, but they also thought it was the will of God? At what point would it register that they mean what they said?

As for Mr. Obama, he sent the Churchill bust back to England, told Russia to wait until after the election to screw our allies- when he has more flexibility, and won't even recognize the capital of Israel as Jerusalem.

Mr. Obama's "bumps in the road" were living, breathing people, serving their country. Instead of acting on a warning that they had days in advance, when their death could have been avoided, instead of serving the people he served them up as a sacrifice. To blame this on a video is moronic and laughable.

The only thing I would count on Mr. Obama for is to nearly double our national debt, endear himself and endanger the people of our great nation by associating with known anarchists and the Muslim Brotherhood, work on his golf game, try to fundraise and try to get elected again.

I hate to say this, but I genuinely fear for Israel. This runs much deeper than politics, and we do not have he right President to answer the call for help.

Israel is our only true ally in the middle east. It would be reprehensible for us to stand by and do nothing in the name of political correctness. It would shame me as an American.

God protect them please. In Jesus's Name, Amen.

So...what would you do if you were in their shoes?

Just need white out!

 

[Grimm]

The Israelis don't want to annihilate every Muslim in the world. They want to be left alone.

If you really think the Israelis and Iranians are on equal footing, you are an anti-Semite.

wow, you are on a roll tonight. Guess it feels good to log in and correct people's spelling, call posts idiotic ... and then finish it off with suggesting somebody is an anti-semite.

Negative reps.

 

[luckyfc]

YouTube - Absolutely Uncertain

Must see video on the subject. "Absolutely Uncertain."

 

[Redbar]

The Israelis don't want to annihilate every Muslim in the world. They want to be left alone.

If you really think the Israelis and Iranians are on equal footing, you are an anti-Semite.

No the Israeli's don't want to annihilate every Muslim. They just want to be left alone with Israel and the parts of Palestine that they want to develop, err I mean need to defend themselves. I am not anti-ANYONE including Palestinians and if you think what the Israeli's are doing to the Palestinians is totally different than what the Nazi's did to Jews by placing them in Polish ghetto's then I am all ears. Granted there are no gas chambers but there are generations being raised in the equivalent of the polish ghetto's. The Israeli's, I am sure understand, that much of the anger directed to them including much of the crazy rhetoric from Iran is linked to the Palestinian issue. Israel is a country populated by mostly European and Asian people with some Jewish lineage, and not agreeing 100% with their NATION's policies towards their fairly new neighbors, or the incredible influence they wield on our foreign policy does not make one anti-semitic. Semitic means briefly a : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs. b : a descendant of these ...Which in a way makes Israel seem like they are the anti-semites, ironic huh.

I am in favor of peace, and who has the most influence when it comes to making peace, the powerful or the weak? I am not saying Israel and Iran are on equal footing, because no one is on equal footing with Israel in the Middle East, they are the most powerful nation in that region by far. Like I said in my earlier post I know they are in a tough spot, but they have to find a way to engage their present foes. I refuse to believe that constant war and build up to war is the best we can do. Further, I don't like the thought of a nuclear al queda or nuclear Iran, but in the end it is simply SCIENCE. How long do you think you can keep everyone who is not your ally from achieving this technology. It would be like saying, "We will not allow the Visigoth's to make or use the wheel" or "fire". Eventually, they'll get it.

The approach that we are taking now will lead us on a futile path of trying to constantly keep technology out of developing nations hands because we are afraid of what they will do with it. That will mean a lot of money, a lot of war, a lot more hatred and ill will and ultimately we will FAIL. You cannot stop time, you can't put the genie back in the bottle. I don't know what the answer is but we need to find a different way. We could start right here by not throwing around careless statements about racial bias, inaccurately,if that is what you were implying.