Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[Dale]

The DC just logistically cannot both call the play and make all unilateral personnel decisions.

It’s just a dumb parent ranting as he’s done for years on Twitter.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Anyone seriously thinking Ash is getting fired after 3 games is living in fantasy land. It's not a serious thing a serious program does. Even Bama doesnt do that sort of shit.

I don't think he's getting fired now, but I do think he probably lost his play calling duties.

That 2nd half looked so different from what we've seen from the previous 2.5 games.

I think Freeman realizes that Ash was killing this team and he's taking over.

 

[mrmcgrail]

I think it would be pretty obvious if he was calling plays you know with him being the one with the call sheet sending in the plays in the second half and I don't recall seeing that at all

 

[KMac151993]

I don't think he's getting fired now, but I do think he probably lost his play calling duties.

That 2nd half looked so different from what we've seen from the previous 2.5 games.

I think Freeman realizes that Ash was killing this team and he's taking over.

Purdue quit. ND's was scoring at will...if they had wanted to they score 70+...

 

[Dale]

I don't think he's getting fired now, but I do think he probably lost his play calling duties.

That 2nd half looked so different from what we've seen from the previous 2.5 games.

I think Freeman realizes that Ash was killing this team and he's taking over.

Think you’re kinda wishcasting here

 

[irishff1014]

The DC just logistically cannot both call the play and make all unilateral personnel decisions.

It’s just a dumb parent ranting as he’s done for years on Twitter.

Micromanager and Ash looks like that.

 

[IrishLax]

And if so, that’s the biggest issue I have with Freeman so far. If Ash isn’t trusting his staff to make personnel decisions, MF needs to overrule him. There’s something very rotten going on

I just think the whole situation is more complex than we all treat it. Like if we take a step back and get to the root of the issues it's a combination of:

* There is whiplash moving from a guy who had more of a mentor/teacher style of coaching in Golden to a guy who is a lot more dogmatic.

* You lost two great lead by example / high IQ guys in Watts and Kiser

* I do believe there is a big kernel of truth to the fact that it's Ash's operation so everything flows downhill from him. Specifically, I do not think some of the baffling decisions with how playing time is distributed at safety happen with Golden at the helm. Position coaches do not operate in a vacuum. For example, Gino doesn't pick the QB. Lineups / gameplan is collectively set during the week and then managed by the position coaches throughout the game.

* The lack of pass rush is because of how we are blitzing and who we are using to get after the QB. Purdue has a terrible OL and we barely got any pressure today. Golden continually confused offenses and got free rushers, we are getting none of that... in fact it looks like we are the ones having trouble getting lined up.

* From a mental standpoint, I think you're going to play worse / play slower if you have a lack of confidence. And I also think the guys just don't like Ash. We don't see practice so we have no idea what is being coached / how it's being coached. The "how" is extremely important. This was a major issue with BVG and why Elko was such an immediate upgrade.

 

[INLaw]

Should he be fired maybe
Will he no
Could he lose play calling and Mickens be elevated?
Hard to imagine it being worse and I want to see if Mickens has the chops before he moves to another P4 coordinator job in the offseason

 

[ThePiombino]

NBC did not disappoint

 

[Bane]

We've given up 97 points. It took 8 games to give up 97 points last year. Fire Chris Ash.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Think you’re kinda wishcasting here

Nah. There was absolutely a difference in playcalling compared to what we've seen.

Not to say for sure that MF took over, but either that or he told Ash to abandon the vanilla crap that hadn't been working and start mixing things up in the front 7.

 

[SportsingHard]

My OSU friend is saying give Ash half a season as the 2014 team took half a season to get the D right. I’m not buying it.

In terms of points per game, they did not improve, but they started with 7 wins vs 8 unranked opponents before defeating:
#8 MSU
#25 Minnesota
UR Indiana
UR Michigan
#13 Wisconsin (59-0)
#1 Alabama
#2 Oregon

 

[ulukinatme]

My OSU friend is saying give Ash half a season as the 2014 team took half a season to get the D right. I’m not buying it.

In terms of points per game, they did not improve, but they started with 7 wins vs 8 unranked opponents before defeating:
#8 MSU
#25 Minnesota
UR Indiana
UR Michigan
#13 Wisconsin (59-0)
#1 Alabama
#2 Oregon

Lets not forget that Ash was also "CO-DC" with Fickell that 2014 season...and who's to say that the first half of the season wasn't Ash making boneheaded decisions? Fickell may be a questionable HC, but as a DC I think he's been better than Ash.

BTW, I still like "Ass." Trash just isn't as fitting.

 

[ulukinatme]

 

[SportsingHard]

Lets not forget that Ash was also "CO-DC" with Fickell that 2014 season...and who's to say that the first half of the season wasn't Ash making boneheaded decisions? Fickell may be a questionable HC, but as a DC I think he's been better than Ash.

BTW, I still like "Ass." Trash just isn't as fitting.

Sure, that's a possibility, just like the possibility that Fickell fucked everything up to begin the season before Ash corrected it.

 

[ulukinatme]

Sure, that's a possibility, just like the possibility that Fickell fucked everything up to begin the season before Ash corrected it.

Sure, but Luke Fickell actually has long stretches of success as DC. Ass does not.

Fickell was DC/Co-DC at OSU basically from '05-'16, save for the one year he was interim HC and OSU went 6-7 under him (Their offense was bad that year, defense was still good). OSU's defenses were pretty stout most of these years, and they won 11 games or more every year he was DC except 2 seasons. The other two years they won 10 games still.

In fact, almost every year Fickell was DC the OSU defenses held their opponents to under 200 points for the season and were usually around a Top 25 defense more or less in PPG. There was one season OSU gave up 330 points though...I'll let you guess who was CO-DC with him that year.

 

[SportsingHard]

Sure, but Luke Fickell actually has long stretches of success as DC. Ass does not.

Fickell was DC/Co-DC at OSU basically from '05-'16, save for the one year he was interim HC and OSU went 6-7 under him (Their offense was bad that year, defense was still good). OSU's defenses were pretty stout most of these years, and they won 11 games or more every year he was DC except 2 seasons. The other two years they won 10 games still.

In fact, almost every year Fickell was DC the OSU defenses held their opponents to under 200 points for the season and were usually around a Top 25 defense more or less in PPG. There was one season OSU gave up 330 points though...I'll let you guess who was CO-DC with him that year.

To the best of my understanding, Luke Fickell has never coached a game of football as a DC, though he was co-DC at Ohio State and Ohio State only. He had two stretches there in that capacity, interrupted by 2011, when he was interim HC. I'm not inclined to look up stats for every season, but I do know Fickell's co-DC years were the late-Tressell, early-Urban era. In that time, from 2005 to 2016, the Ohio State program was elite every year except the year Fickell was in charge, when they were utter garbage, giving the most consistent program in CFB history an extremely rare losing season between Top 5 finishes the year before and after.

It's probably worth pointing out that Ohio State is (or was at the time) the easiest place in the country to dominate considering recruiting advantages relative to competition, so either Fickell or Ash should've been expected to field elite defenses there, but in Fickell's 12 years as co-DC or iHC at OSU, they only won the National Championship once, and that was the year Urban decided to bring in Chris Ash, who only had three years of experience as a DC, because obviously Urban saw something in him he liked very much. After winning the NC in 2014, Ash helped the defense improve in 2015.

Since then, Ash has coached only one season as a DC anywhere--in 2020 on one of Tom Herman's mediocre Texas teams. Subsequent NFL draft results suggest Ash had little to work with--three middle rounders in 2021 and nobody in 2022.

I may not be a fan of Chris Ash, but I am a fan of good analysis.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Sure, but Luke Fickell actually has long stretches of success as DC. Ass does not.

Fickell was DC/Co-DC at OSU basically from '05-'16, save for the one year he was interim HC and OSU went 6-7 under him (Their offense was bad that year, defense was still good). OSU's defenses were pretty stout most of these years, and they won 11 games or more every year he was DC except 2 seasons. The other two years they won 10 games still.

In fact, almost every year Fickell was DC the OSU defenses held their opponents to under 200 points for the season and were usually around a Top 25 defense more or less in PPG. There was one season OSU gave up 330 points though...I'll let you guess who was CO-DC with him that year.

Problem is that Fickell wasn't the play caller on defense from '05 to '10. That was Jim Heacock's defense.

He took the reigns in 2012 and 2013, and the results were....mixed.

Then Ash came in and mixed things up and they saw immediate improvement in '14 and '15.

That isn't to knock Fickell, but Urban clearly saw him as not worthy of taking over the defense full time and felt necessary to bring Ash on.

Now, whatever happened between now and then, Ash has clearly lost his touch for the college game, similar to how BVG was once a great college DC, but that was a good decade prior to him landing in South Bend.

 

[Irish Norseman]

I am by no means pleased with this defense, and I have zero difficulty imagining the possibility of Ash getting canned eventually for poor performance. However, I'm cognizant of a number of things:

* The last DC brought in who tasted immediate success was Brian Fucking Van Gorder, and there's always an adjustment to the new process/communication/scheme.

* Our top 3 cover guys have missed tons of time and/or played very gimpy.

* Our current top 3 are two true freshmen and a gimp.

* Our top 2 DEs are still getting back to full speed following ACLs and the third hasn't learned to football yet.

* Our captain DT looks adorable at a hundred-and-nuthin' pounds.

* Our captain LB is constantly reviled for his pass rush/coverage abilities.

* Our captain S has been reviled when he's not been forced to sit out 4 quarters for some bullshit.

* Nearly all of our defensive players have been put on blast directly or indirectly for playing like shit, and absolutely zero players have been routinely cited as playing well.

* There is zero reason to believe any of the assistants, including the hallowed Mike Mickens, are doing their jobs at a competent level.

* We've played easily the toughest schedule in the country, especially from standpoint of opponent OLs, and 2 of 3 QBs have been difficult to gameplan for for differing reasons.

* Ash won a NC as co-DC.

I'm also aware some of the most vile criticism of Ash occurred when:

* ND hadn't surrendered a point all season.

* ND held Miami to 27, even with a gift from our first-time QB.

* Purdue scored on a halfback pass.

* Purdue scored a FG following a fake punt.

* Purdue scored a FG after a one-yard drive.

At some point, all of the Ass/Trash bashing just gets a little stupid.

P.S. ND drives vs. Purdue included:

* 0 plays (kick return TD)

* 1 play (TD)

* 1 play (fumble)

* 1 play (half)

* 3 plays (TD)

* 3 plays (game)

* 4 plays (downs)

* 5 plays (TD)

* 5 plays (TD)

Are you Chris Ass’s mom? If so can you put him in time out and never let him out.

 

[irishff1014]

You all keep saying that we can’t fire him mid season.

Yes yes you can and you have too. The players are only going to continue to learn his bad habits, his terrible concepts, and his relationships with the players and other defensive staff.

You have to make a change. This defense is going to set the team back years on the field and recruiting.

And then the next step is ND will be looking for another new coach.

 

[IrishLax]

I dunno guys, this seems not great

 

[KPENN]

Did he call the defense in the 2nd half?

 

[CoachB]

Did he call the defense in the 2nd half?

Good question. It did seems to look different. Finally a little less vanilla.

 

[DomeFieldAdvantage]

One change I think we can make is to add another DB coach. I never liked having only one coach for DBs and that is even more true now when we are trying to teach so many new things and its to so many young players. There is an assistant DB coach on staff, but he's a young guy without much experience. I would want someone who has actually coached the position at the highest level.

Surprisingly, there might actually be a perfect candidate. It looks like Kerry Coombs isn't coaching anywhere right now after being let go from Cincy last year and he already has experience with both Mickens (as DB coach when Mickens was a player and a GA) and Ash (as CB coach at OSU when Ash was DC).

 

[KPENN]

Good question. It did seems to look different. Finally a little less vanilla.

If my math is correct before the garbage time TD they gave up 35 yards in the second half. With the TD it was 93 yards. Big difference from the 1st half

 

[IrishWayDomer]

Politely tell Ash his option is either week 3 firing, or he rides it out this year, gets paid, plays nicely while Mickens calls the defense.

You test run Mickens, have a message to the incoming 2026/2027 class (zero chance the best won't contemplate leaving if they know it's Ash), send a jolt into the defense.

This fixes the immediate cloud, fixes the future recruiting, and gives you the glimpse if Mickens is ready or not.

I dont see the downside or risk. The risk is Ash, this team does not respond to him.

 

[FOTY977]

F

I dunno guys, this seems not great

Time to empty the ash tray.

 

[Bane]

 

[MacIrish75]

I still cannot get over how bewildered he always looks on the sidelines. Just stick him in the booth and give him a headset and iPad to make it appear that he’s coaching, but really he can just sit there and watch Squid Game.

 

[StPaul_Irish]

I dunno guys, this seems not great

So BVG > Ass

That tracks