Chicago White Sox... The thread.

[Rogue219]

Eh, I'd say he isn't really blackballed, but it's like what happened with Colin Kaepernick.

Both claim that the leagues they once worked under "black balled" them, but in reality, their antics and dialogue aren't worth gambling on guys who haven't been successful in years.

Ozzie was once a very good manager, but has since let the game pass him by and there is no reason a team will be willing to take a chance on him, especially given his lightning rod mouth for controversy.

He managed a Marlins team that lost 90+ games last time anyone saw him. He was there for a year. I believe he made comments about how he loved Fidel Castro and that was the end of him. Considering he was employed in Miami at the time, this was probably a really bad look for the team.

I'm willing to bet a mortgage payment Ozzie Guillen wouldn't touch analytics and would be a huge pain in the ass for any front office, Chicago or otherwise, because of it.

It is my understanding that Ken Williams wanted to hire Cito Gaston and Jerry Reinsdorf pushed Ozzie Guillen? By Year Two they won a WS but otherwise won a Division title in 2008 and nothing else. I'm not entirely fond of how Ken Williams ran the team, but he's still around and Guillen is not. Mr. Jerry is typically very loyal to his people and the best Guillen can do is be on TV at the moment.

He can't even get a gig as a bench coach or third base coach? Come on. Something is up.

 

[Irishize]

I swear if they higher Tony Larussa I will quit watching them .

Horrible hire. This isn’t 1983. Luckily, he’s a part of an investment group trying to secure an expansion franchise in Charlotte or Nashville. You know MLB will be warm to the fact that LaRussa is involved in the ownership.

 

[Irishize]

He managed a Marlins team that lost 90+ games last time anyone saw him. He was there for a year. I believe he made comments about how he loved Fidel Castro and that was the end of him. Considering he was employed in Miami at the time, this was probably a really bad look for the team.

I'm willing to bet a mortgage payment Ozzie Guillen wouldn't touch analytics and would be a huge pain in the ass for any front office, Chicago or otherwise, because of it.

It is my understanding that Ken Williams wanted to hire Cito Gaston and Jerry Reinsdorf pushed Ozzie Guillen? By Year Two they won a WS but otherwise won a Division title in 2008 and nothing else. I'm not entirely fond of how Ken Williams ran the team, but he's still around and Guillen is not. Mr. Jerry is typically very loyal to his people and the best Guillen can do is be on TV at the moment.

He can't even get a gig as a bench coach or third base coach? Come on. Something is up.

I never understood Kenny Williams getting the GM gig. When I heard he was hired, all i could recall of him is that he was a middling player for some bad White Sox teams.

 

[zelezo vlk]

So my buddy is a huge White Sox fan and every participates in an online thing where Sox fans map out the offseason, planning free agents, extensions, arbitration etc. The below is his writeup, and I think it's pretty good. What would y'all think?

https://www.soxmachine.com/2020/10/19/armchairs-offseason-plan-2/

 

[Southside Sully]

So my buddy is a huge White Sox fan and every participates in an online thing where Sox fans map out the offseason, planning free agents, extensions, arbitration etc. The below is his writeup, and I think it's pretty good. What would y'all think?

https://www.soxmachine.com/2020/10/19/armchairs-offseason-plan-2/

Regarding the current team, I agree with his players you tender on arbitration. Giolito may get an extension, so will be interesting to see how that works.

Club Options - you take Leury for that low $3.5m. He can play anywhere, and when he actually does play he is good to have. Maybe you can get him lower but I don' think so.

Impending Free Agents - I think you try to resign Colome and McCann.. McCann should be getting paid as a starter his next contract but in the Covid world we will see what the market brings him. Colome, no sense not to try and bring him back.

None of his trade scenarios are going to happen. Mets aren't giving up Thor without a minimum of 3 A+++ prospects that are MLB ready.

Free Agents outside of the Sox org.. Quintana is a possibility but not unless he is healthy.. Sox are going to throw money at Bauer, hopefully Springer, Tanaka. They need at least one proven starter, and an everyday right fielder. Engel could be that guy, but you need a proven guy, and Springer is who they will go for, has won a WS and has that veteran experience. Maybe they take a flier on other starters like Stroman, Archer, Odorizzi (tried to sign him last year)

I don't think you need to go out and break the bank on a DH.. you have enough options on the current squad to do so.

 

[Rogue219]

Horrible hire. This isn’t 1983. Luckily, he’s a part of an investment group trying to secure an expansion franchise in Charlotte or Nashville. You know MLB will be warm to the fact that LaRussa is involved in the ownership.

It makes absolutely zero sense, on top of the fact that he had some of the biggest juicers known to man in his clubhouses in both Oakland and St. Louis. I also think Bob Nightengale is a useful idiot in this instance.

I never understood Kenny Williams getting the GM gig. When I heard he was hired, all i could recall of him is that he was a middling player for some bad White Sox teams.

Danny Evans got passed over for Williams. I remember that well. Then Danny Evans went to the Dodgers and laid some groundwork there. Paul DePodesta came next, then Ned Colletti for the Dodgers.

For a Stanford guy, Williams never struck me as very smart. He seemed to do things out of anger and was obsessed with getting certain players to the point that he'd often get them many years too late. He was also a football player at Stanford and just seemed to have way more of a football mentality for baseball even for 20 years ago at the beginning of the Moneyball Era.

Loved in Moneyball how Beane got Chad Bradford from Williams in a trade. Then later he sent him broken Billy Koch for Keith Foulke. Foulke rebooted with Oakland and wound up on Boston's 2004 WS club.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Regarding the current team, I agree with his players you tender on arbitration. Giolito may get an extension, so will be interesting to see how that works.

Club Options - you take Leury for that low $3.5m. He can play anywhere, and when he actually does play he is good to have. Maybe you can get him lower but I don' think so.

Impending Free Agents - I think you try to resign Colome and McCann.. McCann should be getting paid as a starter his next contract but in the Covid world we will see what the market brings him. Colome, no sense not to try and bring him back.

None of his trade scenarios are going to happen. Mets aren't giving up Thor without a minimum of 3 A+++ prospects that are MLB ready.

Free Agents outside of the Sox org.. Quintana is a possibility but not unless he is healthy.. Sox are going to throw money at Bauer, hopefully Springer, Tanaka. They need at least one proven starter, and an everyday right fielder. Engel could be that guy, but you need a proven guy, and Springer is who they will go for, has won a WS and has that veteran experience. Maybe they take a flier on other starters like Stroman, Archer, Odorizzi (tried to sign him last year)

I don't think you need to go out and break the bank on a DH.. you have enough options on the current squad to do so.

Ah but I actually like his reasoning here. Not only is he essentially a midseason pickup due to recovering from TJ, he's only under contract for next year. Why would the Mets with a new owner, who's probably willing to be patient to rebuild, want to let Syndergaard leave for nothing?

 

[Rogue219]

So my buddy is a huge White Sox fan and every participates in an online thing where Sox fans map out the offseason, planning free agents, extensions, arbitration etc. The below is his writeup, and I think it's pretty good. What would y'all think?

https://www.soxmachine.com/2020/10/19/armchairs-offseason-plan-2/

You know, I like having Sam Fuld's name in there for a managerial candidate. He's got Bruce Bochy in there, which is the only name he should omit.

Doe James Shields want to be a pitching coach? The manager should ultimately get to pick his staff. They saddled every manager of this millenium with Don Cooper. Let the manager decide but ask the questions during the interviewing process.

That's an awful lot of trade activity for an offseason, let alone one during a pandemic. This would make AJ Preller look lazy.

Absolutely should sign Cespedes in the International market.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This is 100% fact with Kap.The league settled his case to about $10 mill, because they knew they were going to lose the collusion case. He was blackballed, he didn't have antics, he kneeled during the national anthem, which is his right to do so under the 1st amendment, and consulted a former Navy Seal to be respectful. All reports were that Kap was a great teammate
"Kaepernick’s teammates voted him as the winner of the Len Eshmont Award as the 49ers player who best exemplifies the inspirational and courageous play of Len Eshmont. The award is considered the most prestigious team honor on which players vote."

Ozzie is more just no one throwing him a bone, Kap was cut and held out.

Kap wasn't cut. He opted out of his contract and had opportunities to sign with other teams. Baltimore offered him, but his girlfriend decided to be a racist POS and compare the Ravens ownership to Candieland from Django. He had multiple opportunities to join a team on a backup level contract, but he believed he was a starter.

It's not even just about the kneeling, it's his other off-field comments and antics, such as wearing a shirt depicting Fidel Castro...to an interview in Miami. Wearing pig cop socks. Claiming the 4th of July is a celebration of white supremacy. Telling Nike to not release their Betsy Ross design shoes.

All of this makes many teams more than justified to not want to sign a backup level QB and carry all the baggage he has from his antics, for little return.

The fact that they settled is irrelevant. They settled with Eric Reid, and he wasn't blackballed. Because Eric Reid played up to his value. If Kap actually managed to take the backup level salary his value warranted, he may have stuck with a team. Of course, fiscally, why would he do that when he makes more money as a social media figure?

 

[Rogue219]

Sounds like Sam Fuld is a candidate.

 

[Southside Sully]

Sounds like Sam Fuld is a candidate.

Where did you see that?

 

[Rogue219]

Where did you see that?

James Fox on Twitter.

He mentioed Bob Geren and John Farrell as well.

 

[Rogue219]

Saw Mets bench coach Hensley Meuelens and Cubs bench coach Andy Green mentioned as possible candidates here as well.

AJ Hinch seems to be the favorite but no one can talk to him until the World Series is over. Series is 1-1.

 

[Crazy Balki]

He managed a Marlins team that lost 90+ games last time anyone saw him. He was there for a year. I believe he made comments about how he loved Fidel Castro and that was the end of him. Considering he was employed in Miami at the time, this was probably a really bad look for the team.

I'm willing to bet a mortgage payment Ozzie Guillen wouldn't touch analytics and would be a huge pain in the ass for any front office, Chicago or otherwise, because of it.

It is my understanding that Ken Williams wanted to hire Cito Gaston and Jerry Reinsdorf pushed Ozzie Guillen? By Year Two they won a WS but otherwise won a Division title in 2008 and nothing else. I'm not entirely fond of how Ken Williams ran the team, but he's still around and Guillen is not. Mr. Jerry is typically very loyal to his people and the best Guillen can do is be on TV at the moment.

He can't even get a gig as a bench coach or third base coach? Come on. Something is up.

Here's the thing.

Why would a team decide to hire Ozzie as an assistant coach? You are essentially taking on all the baggage and potential for disaster, while limiting the potential returns.

I have a hard time believing a guy with Ozzie's ego is willing to play second fiddle in a clubhouse at this point to another manager. I can see a litany of issues where Ozzie steps on the toes of the head honcho or he says some more idiotic tripe that generates negative media attention.

The Castro take was easily one of his worst moments, but it was FAR from his only black mark.

 

[Rogue219]

Here's the thing.

Why would a team decide to hire Ozzie as an assistant coach? You are essentially taking on all the baggage and potential for disaster, while limiting the potential returns.

I have a hard time believing a guy with Ozzie's ego is willing to play second fiddle in a clubhouse at this point to another manager. I can see a litany of issues where Ozzie steps on the toes of the head honcho or he says some more idiotic tripe that generates negative media attention.

The Castro take was easily one of his worst moments, but it was FAR from his only black mark.

I don't disagree. He can do local TV pre and post game until he fucks up again.

The names like Guillen, Bochy, LaRussa are not the ones you would want to be hearing right now if you had any sense of where the game is and where it is going.

 

[Rogue219]

Sources confirm Tony La Russa has talked to close associates about possible coaching and baseball support system positions if he is named the White Sox manager.

I don't understand this.

Rumor is he asked Dave Duncan if he was interested and Duncan declined.

This stinks of malfeasance on the part of their chairman, and why Rick Hahn is on board with this is beyond me.

 

[Rogue219]

It sounds like they are hiring LaRussa without having talked to anyone else and as a result, the Chairman gets his manager but will lose his GM.

I would not blame Rick Hahn for leaving if his hand was forced here. Frankly, if that's how this went down, he'd have zero balls or dignity if he stayed.

Tony LaRussa with a team full of twenty somethings who are black and brown. Okay. Tell Tim Anderson to keep his head and eyes down while he's rounding the bases after a home run. See how that goes.

This would be malpractice unlike any hire I can recall. I thought being a Pirates fan was tough, but my goodness why would they do this other than complete ignorance?

 

[BobbyMac]

It sounds like they are hiring LaRussa without having talked to anyone else and as a result, the Chairman gets his manager but will lose his GM.

I would not blame Rick Hahn for leaving if his hand was forced here. Frankly, if that's how this went down, he'd have zero balls or dignity if he stayed.

Tony LaRussa with a team full of twenty somethings who are black and brown. Okay. Tell Tim Anderson to keep his head and eyes down while he's rounding the bases after a home run. See how that goes.

This would be malpractice unlike any hire I can recall. I thought being a Pirates fan was tough, but my goodness why would they do this other than complete ignorance?

I always hoped there would be a reunion of the '83 staff on the Southside . . .

I didn't think they'd have to dig their corpses up 40 years later to do it.

Who knows, maybe he hands out needles and speeders like he did with the A's? I was looking forward to 3 WS crowns out of this group but as a Sox fan I honestly need just one to get me through the next 20 years.

 

[Rogue219]

I always hoped there would be a reunion of the '83 staff on the Southside . . .

I didn't think they'd have to dig their corpses up 40 years later to do it.

Who knows, maybe he hands out needles and speeders like he did with the A's? I was looking forward to 3 WS crowns out of this group but as a Sox fan I honestly need just one to get me through the next 20 years.

They have been so interesting since they started this rebuild. They have a GM with a degree from Harvard and and MBA from Kellogg (Michigan undergrad. Eww). Great talent and a rebuilt farm. All that was missing was the field staff to tie it all together.

Look at the Padres. Similar trajectory, and they have the Dodgers standing in their way in that division. This is there for the taking and they're about to do this?

It's really sad and it's actually something not even the Pirates would do. I know. Believe me.

 

[Rogue219]

LaRussa announced.

They never interviewed Hinch. Or anyone else from the sounds of things.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Oof

 

[Wild Bill]

LaRussa announced.

They never interviewed Hinch. Or anyone else from the sounds of things.

Sounds like we're well on our way to wasting a pile of young talent.

 

[Rogue219]

Sounds like we're well on our way to wasting a pile of young talent.

Yeah.

I never thought many teams had it worse than Pittsburgh, but this chairman of yours is really something else. The Pirates embraced analytics before the White Sox did.

This is sad. Such an interesting team.

 

[Southside Sully]

Lot of smoke going around that Hahn wants out.

 

[Rogue219]

Lot of smoke going around that Hahn wants out.

He can do anything he wants. Phillies and Angels are open. I'm sure they'd love to interview him.

They did not interview anyone else. This is terrible.

 

[Southside Sully]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The hiring of Tony La Russa has ruffled feathers in the White Sox organization. A number of employees have concerns about his ability to connect with younger players and how he will adapt to the field after being away 9 years.<br><br>This was a Jerry Reinsdorf decision. Simple as that.</p>— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) <a href="https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/1321876262240030720?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Southside Sully]

Multi year deal? He's 76 WTF is that!!!!

Also, I hope they talked to free agent targets, agents to see if any of them would want to play for him. Stroman liked a tweet that pretty much said he wouldn't want to play for him.

 

[Rogue219]

The modern day players WANT the stats and data to make them better. So Bauer, Stroman, Springer, won't come. The White Sox have been behind the curve for a long time and were just now starting to get modern. This is a massive step back for them.

Rick Hahn needs to leave, unless he's fine with being in an organization like this and actually wanted this move. Angels and Phillies have openings.

 

[Rogue219]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/08/22/baseball-unwritten-rules-fernando-tatis-jr/

LaRussa is an unwritten rules guy. For this team?

Just not smart.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Possibly the weirdest sports hire, ever?

lol