Chicago White Sox... The thread.

Rogue219

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There is no doubt in my mind that was KW

That's what I'm thinking too.

At that point, when it all blew up again, Rick Hahn became the actual GM of the team. Every move since the Tatis for Shields trade began this version of the rebuild.
 

Rogue219

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That kid is awesome.

They gave him, what, $26M to sign? They're going to wait until April to bring this guy up. It's insane.

This needs sorted in the next CBA.

Dylan Cease is getting destroyed by the Twins right now. This team needs to go out and pay for starters this winter. Period. Not Ivan Nova starters either.
 

Southside Sully

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That kid is awesome.

They gave him, what, $26M to sign? They're going to wait until April to bring this guy up. It's insane.

This needs sorted in the next CBA.

Dylan Cease is getting destroyed by the Twins right now. This team needs to go out and pay for starters this winter. Period. Not Ivan Nova starters either.


No doubt the next CBA is going to be very hot. This will one hundred percent be one of the main talking points. I have a feeling a strike is coming.

Cease did get lit up.. He needs to find his way around that once a game massive inning.. Gotta learn how to not let each pitch snowball and also to get more focused from the drop. Good thing he has a teammate in Gio he can relate to.
 

Rogue219

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Danny Mendick and Zack Collins have been called up.

No Robert, No Madrigal as expected.
 

Rogue219

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Also Palka and Covey.. My buddy said, Covey must be sleeping with Hahn.. It is crazy this dude is still on the team.

Covey is garbage.

Give Palka those at bats. Period. They should be thankful Jon Jay needs to go under the knife. Complete waste.

This is going to be an even more entertaining winter than the last one for this team. Very curious to see who they wind up signing.
 

Southside Sully

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Covey is garbage.

Give Palka those at bats. Period. They should be thankful Jon Jay needs to go under the knife. Complete waste.

This is going to be an even more entertaining winter than the last one for this team. Very curious to see who they wind up signing.

I said this to a friend today.. Sox will try to extend Gio and Moncada, and will give a deal to Robert to give the optics to fans they are making moves, in case they strike out on FA's. If they can't ink anyone they will need to get creative with trades. Hahn claims they are going to spend that money offered to Machado... Now make it happen.

Madrigal will break camp at starting 2B. They need to do these things also to keep fans involved. I think Sox fans will be very loud this offseason about Coop and Ricky.
 

Rogue219

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It seems this fan base has been very patient considering when their last playoff appearance was and when their last season with a winning record was. The current front office was allowed to scrap a rebuild and start another. You just don't see that very often, and with the way some of their trades turned out back in the day prior/up to James Shields you have to be a tad skeptical.

You have a chairman who has a very sweet stadium deal and isn't known for spending money on players but they're saying that's what is going to happen this winter. When was the last time this club gave a starting pitcher a long term, money contract? How did that go?

Seeing what the Astros have done for their players, I'm having a hard time seeing how many teams are going to impress Cole when he hits the market, especially the White Sox. You'd think Cole and the Astros would figure out a way to stay together.

I think the guy from the Giants is right up their alley. Apart from that, I'll wait to see how it goes.
 

Crazy Balki

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It seems this fan base has been very patient considering when their last playoff appearance was and when their last season with a winning record was. The current front office was allowed to scrap a rebuild and start another. You just don't see that very often, and with the way some of their trades turned out back in the day prior/up to James Shields you have to be a tad skeptical.

You have a chairman who has a very sweet stadium deal and isn't known for spending money on players but they're saying that's what is going to happen this winter. When was the last time this club gave a starting pitcher a long term, money contract? How did that go?

Seeing what the Astros have done for their players, I'm having a hard time seeing how many teams are going to impress Cole when he hits the market, especially the White Sox. You'd think Cole and the Astros would figure out a way to stay together.

I think the guy from the Giants is right up their alley. Apart from that, I'll wait to see how it goes.

There was no rebuild prior to winter 2016. The Sox went all in on their core of players that got them a World Series in 2005. Then once the players started dropping off, they just acquired some free agents or trade targets to fill the gaps. You traded Jim Thome for Adam Dunn for Adam LaRoche. Jermaine Dye for Carlos Quentin for Alex Rios. Aaron Rowand for Brian Anderson for Juan Pierre (WTF) for Alejandro DeAza, and so on. Meanwhile, this tactic of retooling absolutely decimated our farm system.

There was no home grown talent to rebuild off of outside of Chris Sale and Jose Quintana. This is a full rebuild, from ground zero. Not some patchwork bs like they did for most of the early 2010's.

Sox fans should have their expectations set high, just not Cole high. I think he's destined to make a ridiculous amount of money with a big market team. But guys like Bumgarner, Wheeler and Strasburg are definitely in the White Sox realistic wheelhouse.
 
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Rogue219

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Yolmer Sánchez is tied for 117th in baseball with 38 walks. He has the most walks on the White Sox.

AL rank in walk rate by season:
2012: 11th (of 14)
2013: 15th
2014: 12th
2015: 14th
2016: 12th
2017: 13th
2018: 14th
2019: 15th
 

Rogue219

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There was no rebuild prior to winter 2016. The Sox went all in on their core of players that got them a World Series in 2005. Then once the players started dropping off, they just acquired some free agents or trade targets to fill the gaps. You traded Jim Thome for Adam Dunn for Adam LaRoche. Jermaine Dye for Carlos Quentin for Alex Rios. Aaron Rowand for Brian Anderson for Juan Pierre (WTF) for Alejandro DeAza, and so on. Meanwhile, this tactic of retooling absolutely decimated our farm system.

There was no home grown talent to rebuild off of outside of Chris Sale and Jose Quintana. This is a full rebuild, from ground zero. Not some patchwork bs like they did for most of the early 2010's.

Sox fans should have their expectations set high, just not Cole high. I think he's destined to make a ridiculous amount of money with a big market team. But guys like Bumgarner, Wheeler and Strasburg are definitely in the White Sox realistic wheelhouse.

If that's so, you're in even more need of a change than you can ever realize.

There doesn't seem to be accountability here. Everyone has a job because the Chairman likes you. Renteria will probably take the fall, and he's bad no doubt, but this goes systemically deeper than just the manager. See above. How is the hitting coach still employed?
 

Southside Sully

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If that's so, you're in even more need of a change than you can ever realize.

There doesn't seem to be accountability here. Everyone has a job because the Chairman likes you. Renteria will probably take the fall, and he's bad no doubt, but this goes systemically deeper than just the manager. See above. How is the hitting coach still employed?

Yes.. this.. No accountability. I think they keep Rick on some capacity in the org, I'd be willing to say.

Nice game by Cease, nice come back win. 74 had a hell of a game at the dish.
 

Crazy Balki

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If that's so, you're in even more need of a change than you can ever realize.

There doesn't seem to be accountability here. Everyone has a job because the Chairman likes you. Renteria will probably take the fall, and he's bad no doubt, but this goes systemically deeper than just the manager. See above. How is the hitting coach still employed?

I'm all for getting rid of KW. His leadership is a big reason why everything from 2009-2016 was a competitive disaster.

I'm not for getting rid of Hahn, because Jerry promoted him to GM in a very unwinnable situation. 2012 was the last gasp of life from the old guard. 2013 came around, and now the Sox are devoid of talent in the big league roster with very few exceptions and the farm system is still bad.

So even if Hahn wanted to rebuild back in 2013, I doubt he'd have a good case to do so, and instead work with Kenny to patch together a competitive squad.

Bad idea in hindsight, but I get the feeling they were screwed either way because Kenny allowed the farm system to bottom out like it did. For that, he should've been fired.

Now 2016 comes to a close, and all the patching together and acquiring of aging vets to fill more holes than a fine Swiss cheese leaves them empty handed to no one's surprise. It was at that point that Jerry was likely fed up, told Kenny that if he wants to keep his job, butt out of draft affairs, let Hahn shape his roster and told Hahn he has the green light to blow it up and start over from scratch, the way he deserved to. The dynamic in the FO has clearly changed.
 

Rogue219

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Before last night's game

White Sox RF hitting:
.214/.273/.274

White Sox DH hitting:
.191/.271/.318

Lucas Giolito has hits than Daniel Palka.
 

Rogue219

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I'm all for getting rid of KW. His leadership is a big reason why everything from 2009-2016 was a competitive disaster.

Agreed. Too old school. For a Stanford guy, I'm surprised he's not embracing how to run an MLB team as we head into 2020. The war is long over. The Dave Stewarts lost.

I'm not for getting rid of Hahn, because Jerry promoted him to GM in a very unwinnable situation. 2012 was the last gasp of life from the old guard. 2013 came around, and now the Sox are devoid of talent in the big league roster with very few exceptions and the farm system is still bad.

They made some very poor moves once Hahn got promoted. Who was behind those moves might be a mystery. They still have work to do and I have a hard time seeing an outsider coming into the situation based on the club's reputation. They seem to stick to their own.

Seems like Hahn hung around when he had other teams interested in him. Jerry is known for being loyal to a fault. Certainly appears like none of these guys are going anywhere. If Rick Hahn is being hamstrung by his bosses, he should go somewhere else.

So even if Hahn wanted to rebuild back in 2013, I doubt he'd have a good case to do so, and instead work with Kenny to patch together a competitive squad.

Other clubs wanted to interview him. Why'd she stay?

Bad idea in hindsight, but I get the feeling they were screwed either way because Kenny allowed the farm system to bottom out like it did. For that, he should've been fired.

Instead, they created a job for him to be promoted into. That's dysfunctional.

Now 2016 comes to a close, and all the patching together and acquiring of aging vets to fill more holes than a fine Swiss cheese leaves them empty handed to no one's surprise. It was at that point that Jerry was likely fed up, told Kenny that if he wants to keep his job, butt out of draft affairs, let Hahn shape his roster and told Hahn he has the green light to blow it up and start over from scratch, the way he deserved to. The dynamic in the FO has clearly changed.

I still don't think they're going to give him money to spend. They have it, but so what? Their draft philosophy has changed big time, and I think part of what you're saying is right. Kenny wanted Brady Singer bad. They took Madrigal. Singer dropped into the mid first round.

The changes they need are larger, structural, dynamic changes. It may require a new chairman who won't limit his GM.
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Rogue219

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The Phillies have an opening for scouting director, as theirs just resigned. They're going to be casting a wide net to search.

White Sox have the same opening. They are expected to search internally.
 

Rogue219

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With Dealer Dave being available, would the White Sox get him in to do a quick fix winner like he did in Boston?

He dealt prospects, spent money, won a World Series. Chicago is in position to do those first two things. He worked his way up with the White Sox years ago and Ken Harrelson fired him, so he must be good at what he does if that idiot canned him.

Not the guy you hire at 63 for a long term project, but if you're ready to win he might be worth looking at.

Hahn and Kenny's current regime is six years without a 500 team.
 

Rogue219

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The Phillies have an opening for scouting director, as theirs just resigned. They're going to be casting a wide net to search.

White Sox have the same opening. They are expected to search internally.

They hired from within as it turns out. Nothing to see here.

Weird organization. They're not much for looking for help from the outside.
 

Southside Sully

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Which is an absolute joke.. Why isn't Collins getting every day ABs btw?? Nice Sept by 74. 27 shut down, and for good reason. Keep him healthy.
 
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