Chicago White Sox... The thread.

[Irish2155]

Come on out to Iowa next summer. Watch a game, stay for the sweet corn.

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/White-Sox-Yankees-to-play-at-Field-of-Dreams-in-2020-527758351.html

This is pretty cool. I'm interested to see what the outfield "wall" looks like. Only 8,000 seats as well...this is going to be a tough ticket to come across.

 

[Rogue219]

The dead 1919 White Sox could have probably scored more than 2 runs this weekend, yes?

"Ease their pain."

 

[Southside Sully]

The dead 1919 White Sox could have probably scored more than 2 runs this weekend, yes?

"Ease their pain."

What a gem by Gio yesterday too. He has bounced back from a few shaky July outings. Lopez trending up post break. Keep it going.. And lets get 2 more healthy arms back. Keep Nova for 6th starter, long reliever.

Need that hitting coach you've been preaching about. It has to be getting noticed that the run differential this season is absurd.

 

[Crazy Balki]

The hitting isn't going to get any better.

Series with the Stros impending, including a double-header vs. Cole and Greinke.

Ugh.

 

[Rogue219]

https://theathletic.com/1134546/201...a-new-data-driven-approach-in-the-low-minors/

This is tremendously alarming.

When Rick Hahn says this is a 5-7 year process, you can see why after reading this. This club doesn't know how to get the information yet let alone use it. It's basic stuff now.

Having read the book MVP Machine and seeing how teams are using data for player development, it comes as no surprise this franchise is behind the curve. Maybe if Mr. Reinsdorf buys a heat map company or something?

Jose Abreu was showing Eloy Jimenez film of at bats on a tablet. They should have people for this, shouldn't they?

Their highest payroll ever was 2011 at $127M. That was 7th in MLB at the time. Right now it would be 17th around where the Brewers are, and the Brewers have former Astros people running their front office.

So many things are going to have to go right here without room for error and a tremendous amount of luck is needed, and with all the injures they've had this year in both the Majors and Minors, they're not exactly off to a roaring start.

 

[Rogue219]

What a gem by Gio yesterday too. He has bounced back from a few shaky July outings. Lopez trending up post break. Keep it going.. And lets get 2 more healthy arms back. Keep Nova for 6th starter, long reliever.

Need that hitting coach you've been preaching about. It has to be getting noticed that the run differential this season is absurd.

Didn't this staff all get extensions from the front office/chairman? You know Cooper isn't going anywhere regardless.

I feel like their organizational staff is littered with former White Sox and Royals from recent years. That's not exactly a good thing.

 

[Southside Sully]

Didn't this staff all get extensions from the front office/chairman? You know Cooper isn't going anywhere regardless.

I feel like their organizational staff is littered with former White Sox and Royals from recent years. That's not exactly a good thing.

I agree.. I would not be opposed to cleaning house. And if i never have to see Ron Kittle again, i will be ok with it.

 

[Rogue219]

I agree.. I would not be opposed to cleaning house. And if i never have to see Ron Kittle again, i will be ok with it.

So they started their rebuild, likely at least two years late, AFTER trading Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields. They created a position that allowed Kenny Williams to fall up into and gave Rick Hahn ( a loyal solider) the GM Chair.

Started tearing down, cleaned out some of the front office staff, with Kenny and Rick still there as the main decision makers. They are just now starting to provide minor league players with statistical information to help prepare them and make them better.

There was a reason this team has been so poor at player development over the years, and these recent articles are confirming what many assumed about that. They're behind, significantly, compared to the other teams.

If you know anything about what the Astros do for their players, you have to realize as a Sox fan the monumental sale job it will take for the Sox to sign Cole in free agency. Everything he is going to see from these other clubs will be a down grade in terms of development, preparation and information provided.

It isn't hopeless, but it is going to take this club a very long time to catch up to the pack. Meanwhile, the pack is innovating and improving along.

 

[Southside Sully]

So they started their rebuild, likely at least two years late, AFTER trading Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields. They created a position that allowed Kenny Williams to fall up into and gave Rick Hahn ( a loyal solider) the GM Chair.

Started tearing down, cleaned out some of the front office staff, with Kenny and Rick still there as the main decision makers. They are just now starting to provide minor league players with statistical information to help prepare them and make them better.

There was a reason this team has been so poor at player development over the years, and these recent articles are confirming what many assumed about that. They're behind, significantly, compared to the other teams.

If you know anything about what the Astros do for their players, you have to realize as a Sox fan the monumental sale job it will take for the Sox to sign Cole in free agency. Everything he is going to see from these other clubs will be a down grade in terms of development, preparation and information provided.

It isn't hopeless, but it is going to take this club a very long time to catch up to the pack. Meanwhile, the pack is innovating and improving along.

I have a buddy who is a scout for the Sox.. I am going to ask him about Analytics.. He is young enough and I am sure gets it.. Ill see if its top down or the younger guys are pining for it.

One encouraging link and hope shes the answer..
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/html-page/845891

One not encouraging link...
https://twitter.com/SoxMachine/status/1047895039077232641

 

[Rogue219]

The Astros, Cubs and Braves all started their rebuilds with new front offices. Astros and Cubs under new ownership. Red Sox won under Cherington after Theo and then with Dealer Dave. Virtually everyone has started under a new front office regime in recent years.

Kenny and Rick had the benefit of getting to stay and start a rebuild. Just like the Bulls, who are now on Rebuild II.

Huge difference here.

 

[Southside Sully]

The Astros, Cubs and Braves all started their rebuilds with new front offices. Astros and Cubs under new ownership. Red Sox won under Cherington after Theo and then with Dealer Dave. Virtually everyone has started under a new front office regime in recent years.

Kenny and Rick had the benefit of getting to stay and start a rebuild. Just like the Bulls, who are now on Rebuild II.

Huge difference here.

yes big difference for JR when it comes to the Sox vs. Bulls, is that he is hands on with the Sox. Bulls he is not.. Bulls Michael oversees now and is his business. You will see more moves there before you do the Sox. Considering many fans are not renewing seasons for the Bulls, will lead to some changes one can hope. Hit the bulls in the pocket book, JR will change his tune. Sox, is too close to his heart that he is too loyal of an owner. Which unfortunately is a bad thing when you are overly loyal for many many years too long. Since 2011, no one should be on this front office.. Should have been gutted.

 

[Crazy Balki]

yes big difference for JR when it comes to the Sox vs. Bulls, is that he is hands on with the Sox. Bulls he is not.. Bulls Michael oversees now and is his business. You will see more moves there before you do the Sox. Considering many fans are not renewing seasons for the Bulls, will lead to some changes one can hope. Hit the bulls in the pocket book, JR will change his tune. Sox, is too close to his heart that he is too loyal of an owner. Which unfortunately is a bad thing when you are overly loyal for many many years too long. Since 2011, no one should be on this front office.. Should have been gutted.

Disagree.

I think the proof is in the pudding. Same management on the surface, but completely different approach in almost every facet of personnel development and acquisition. It became extremely obvious that after 2016, Jerry told KW to move over and Hahn is in charge of the rebuild.

When Hahn took over in 2012, nothing changed, which told me that KW was still the man calling the shots. After 2016, JR had enough of the status quo and wanted a complete rebuild, but wanted Hahn as the guy to take over. It wouldn't be the first time Jerry made changes to support a rebuild. See 2000 when he moved from Ron Schueler, who had been GM for a full decade prior in favor of the upstart Kenny Williams.

I just wished they decided to blow it up before making the horrible trade for Shields that cost them Tatis. I get that Tatis wasn't nearly as huge a prospect, but still a young talent with a lot of upside. That, to me, was the swan song of KW as a phantom GM.

 

[Southside Sully]

Again, i think the Sox should resign Nova for a possible 5th/6th starter. Based on all the arm injuries he could be a good long reliever, or a spot starter. Since July 7th, he has throw 44 1/3ip, 5-2 record, 24ks, 12bbs, and 14 runs. Hes throwing so much better. Not to mention 2nd complete game in 3 weeks, and just missed one last start with 8ip. Hes only 31.. Sign him to a 2 year deal $10mil total. He can eat innings and his control is much much better.

Also, as i have said many times. DFA Wellington. He had 3 passed balls today. Ricky has the balls to keep marching him out in the clean up spot, where he is hitting .194. How about giving Mercedes or Collins a solid look now in August to see what you have for the offseason. Castillo is not part of the future, why do we keep playing him???
Mercedes between Birmingham and Charlotte is slashing .319/.387/.562 .949 OPS!!! DH him. 17 homers, 62RBI's, 33bbs, 155TB. WTF Rick!

 

[Crazy Balki]

Nova has been absolutely ridiculous in his last 7 starts.

Cease was also good in the first game of the DH. Not amazing, but only 2 runs surrendered in 6 innings of play. Not bad.

I think it's a good idea to keep him around. A low risk end of the rotation arm.

 

[Rogue219]

Anyone should take pause knowing Williams and Hahn are still around. This fan base has not had a winning season since 2012 or a playoff appearance since 2008. For Hahn to give interviews and do podcasts calling what little fan base he has left "negative" might not have been the best idea as they've been in a free fall now for about a month.

Everything being what it is, Sox fans should not be comparing their team to the Astros, Braves, etc. It isn't realistic.

 

[Rogue219]

Luis Robert hit a 443 foot home run yesterday.

I think he has conquered the minors at this point. I don't think they're going to call him up, though.

 

[Southside Sully]

Tonights lineup in charlotte goes
1. Madrigal
2. Moncada
3. Robert

A look of things to come

 

[Southside Sully]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Nick Madrigal is one of two <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MLB?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#MLB</a> prospects with a 65+ hit tool & 60+ run tool (the other is <a href="https://twitter.com/MLB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MLB</a>'s No. 1 prospect). Here he is showing off both tools.<br><br>The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WhiteSox?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WhiteSox</a> No. 5 prospect is batting .296 with <a href="https://twitter.com/KnightsBaseball?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KnightsBaseball</a>.<br><br>More: <a href="https://t.co/aG46Y0calQ">https://t.co/aG46Y0calQ</a><br> <a href="https://t.co/37lZzZohxY">pic.twitter.com/37lZzZohxY</a></p>— MLB Pipeline (@MLBPipeline) <a href="https://twitter.com/MLBPipeline/status/1162429784665858049?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 16, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Crazy Balki]

Anyone should take pause knowing Williams and Hahn are still around. This fan base has not had a winning season since 2012 or a playoff appearance since 2008. For Hahn to give interviews and do podcasts calling what little fan base he has left "negative" might not have been the best idea as they've been in a free fall now for about a month.

Everything being what it is, Sox fans should not be comparing their team to the Astros, Braves, etc. It isn't realistic.

The White Sox are projected to finish somewhere around 70-77 wins, despite mass amounts of key injuries to the rotation and basically relying on space-fillers for a majority of the season. Bogged down by porous pitching from 2-5 for most of the season, Cease needing to get his feet wet, Moncada being out during the free-fall and Jimenez getting off to a slow start and then hurt after that.

Bear in mind, the Braves, Astros and Cubs all had seasons with similar finishes prior to hitting their competitive stride that they are currently riding.

No pause necessary. The expectations are that the Sox are going to pursue several key free agents to fill the gaps, plus the additions of Madrigal and Robert soon and the return of Kopech and potentially Rodon. Hard to imagine that doesn't yield a hefty boost in wins.

There is no reason to not feel optimistic about the White Sox moving forward. I won't argue about the management of the franchise. It's irrelevant when the trajectory speaks for itself.

The trajectory of the Braves and Astros isn't unrealistic. It's quite realistic. That's what happens when you acquire a bevy of young talent and it develops. What isn't realistic is expecting to win immediately, especially when you have so many holes. Rarely does it happen that way. Rarely do you have guys like Acuna who start dominating the way he has at the major league level at such a young age.

 

[Rogue219]

The White Sox are projected to finish somewhere around 70-77 wins, despite mass amounts of key injuries to the rotation and basically relying on space-fillers for a majority of the season. Bogged down by porous pitching from 2-5 for most of the season, Cease needing to get his feet wet, Moncada being out during the free-fall and Jimenez getting off to a slow start and then hurt after that.

All teams have injuries.

Bear in mind, the Braves, Astros and Cubs all had seasons with similar finishes prior to hitting their competitive stride that they are currently riding.

They changed owners AND front offices for their rebuild. The White Sox have the same two guys running their team. Same chairman, too.

No pause necessary. The expectations are that the Sox are going to pursue several key free agents to fill the gaps, plus the additions of Madrigal and Robert soon and the return of Kopech and potentially Rodon. Hard to imagine that doesn't yield a hefty boost in wins.

They can pursue all they want. Doesn't mean they're going to sign anyone.

There is no reason to not feel optimistic about the White Sox moving forward. I won't argue about the management of the franchise. It's irrelevant when the trajectory speaks for itself.

Wow. Your glass is beyond half full.

The trajectory of the Braves and Astros isn't unrealistic. It's quite realistic. That's what happens when you acquire a bevy of young talent and it develops. What isn't realistic is expecting to win immediately, especially when you have so many holes. Rarely does it happen that way. Rarely do you have guys like Acuna who start dominating the way he has at the major league level at such a young age.

You're ignoring the significant changes that took place in ownership and management with those teams. Which is fine if that's how you choose to consume sports, but it doesn't make it cease to be.

According to today's Chicago Tribune, Mr. Hahn has a rogue Twitter account. He blocks and ignores people.

 

[Rogue219]

Tonights lineup in charlotte goes
1. Madrigal
2. Moncada
3. Robert

A look of things to come

Their Triple A lineups lately look better than the one in the Majors on paper.

 

[Rogue219]

Two free agents I see the White Sox bidding on and landing: Abreu and Marcell Ozuna.

I can't see how Cole, Rendon and Wheeler would take them seriously. They'll all command full market value. If the Mets make the playoffs, Wheeler's price goes up for sure. Rendon is represented by The Boras Corporation, who deals pretty well with the Rangers. Rangers need a third baseman. Cole going home to the Angels seems viable. Wheeler could end up there too.

Ryu likely staying with Dodgers, Bumgarner maybe staying with Giants?

Rendon likely leaves the Nationals. The Nationals probably dive in on Josh Donaldson at third. You have Moncada there anyway, so that's not all that pressing of a need.

I think bringing up the kids and making some creative trades is truly their best bet at this point. There is nothing wrong with that either. Both are better paths to contention than free agency and both save Mr. Reinsdorf a lot of money.

Further investment in scouting and development are needed in the minors. It sounds like Hahn is working on that, but based on some recent stories that have come out, they're behind the rest of the Majors. Or at the very least, they've behind the Astros/Cubs/Braves bar everyone seems to be pointing to.

They seem to have a surplus of minor league OF that are pretty good. Maybe some good trade chips in there.

The concerns here are relievers who can't throw strikes, horrendous defense and base running blunders on a weekly basis in the Majors. Those things are glaring week after week, rebuild or not. It makes the fan base frustrated and therefore not as optimistic when you're on pace to lose 90 plus games again.

 

[Rogue219]

Nova has been absolutely ridiculous in his last 7 starts.

Cease was also good in the first game of the DH. Not amazing, but only 2 runs surrendered in 6 innings of play. Not bad.

I think it's a good idea to keep him around. A low risk end of the rotation arm.

Nova will probably get a very nice 1-2 year deal this winter. Yankees return?

 

[Rogue219]

This Luis Robert fellow is pretty good at baseball.

 

[Rogue219]

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=664901#/career/R/hitting/2019/ALL

I would hope they'd bring this guy up September 1st. Feels like he should be up already. He's 25 years old and not getting any younger.

 

[Southside Sully]

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?player_id=664901#/career/R/hitting/2019/ALL

I would hope they'd bring this guy up September 1st. Feels like he should be up already. He's 25 years old and not getting any younger.

Him and Mercedes need a call up. Collins is hitting the piss off ball since being sent back down too. Get these kids some ABs.. Especially these minor leaguers such as Mendick who has no future in this organization, make them attractive for off season trades.

 

[Rogue219]

Him and Mercedes need a call up. Collins is hitting the piss off ball since being sent back down too. Get these kids some ABs.. Especially these minor leaguers such as Mendick who has no future in this organization, make them attractive for off season trades.

Agreed. And have the hitting coach leave them the fuck alone once they arrive.

 

[Rogue219]

“I don’t discount numbers. Never did, never will. I’m not going to appeal to the sabermetrician ... If they don’t like it, I don’t give a shit. I do things because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If that puts me on the outs that’s fine ... but I know my guys.” -- Rick Renteria

Willful ignorance. You can know your guys and still do your homework, still attempt to be the best manager you can be by using the information that is at your disposal. This is lazy and stupid, full stop, and explains his asinine lineups every day.

If I'm a White Sox fan, my hope is he's saying this because he knows he's not going to be around next year, otherwise you have no prayer once this group of players is ready to be good. Renteria should not be managing in the Majors.

This MLB coaching staff should be gone. Their hitting coach is the second longest tenured in the Majors. FOR WHAT? If this team's time is coming soon, they can't have this staff facilitating the contention when it happens.

 

[Rogue219]

Pitching coach Don Cooper often talks about trying to build another rotation led by four workhorses like in 2005, but trotting out the same lineup for every game like the Sox did in the playoffs that year looks like the real relic of the past.

This is from James Fegan's article in The Athletic today.

I'm totally speechless.

I could see the Pirates firing Clint Hurdle and the White Sox running to the front of the line to snag him this winter.

 

[Southside Sully]

“I don’t discount numbers. Never did, never will. I’m not going to appeal to the sabermetrician ... If they don’t like it, I don’t give a shit. I do things because I believe it’s the right thing to do. If that puts me on the outs that’s fine ... but I know my guys.” -- Rick Renteria

Willful ignorance. You can know your guys and still do your homework, still attempt to be the best manager you can be by using the information that is at your disposal. This is lazy and stupid, full stop, and explains his asinine lineups every day.

If I'm a White Sox fan, my hope is he's saying this because he knows he's not going to be around next year, otherwise you have no prayer once this group of players is ready to be good. Renteria should not be managing in the Majors.

This MLB coaching staff should be gone. Their hitting coach is the second longest tenured in the Majors. FOR WHAT? If this team's time is coming soon, they can't have this staff facilitating the contention when it happens.

This got a lot of people up in arms in Chicago and in Baseball.. I think Ricky's future is in limbo.. he may be with the org but it wont be as manager hopefully.