Chicago White Sox... The thread.

[Rogue219]

Their starting pitch is shit. Look at the RD. Third worst in the Majors. Too many injuries and those holes have not been filled with anyone worthy of getting MLB innings. It's really bad.

Lopez looks like he's made some adjustments. That needs to continue. Dylan Covey sucks and has no place in the Majors. Cease is finding his way still. They just called Carson Fulmer back up, which likely means more of the same.

They need to make some moves in the next 24 hours. Right now they're slotted at 8th in the 2020 MLB Draft. They may not lose 100 games, but they're on pace to lose 90+ now. They are definitely not "buyers."

I really think their MLB coaching staff are a bunch of slap dicks. Renteria loves to bunt for some reason, Don Cooper has a lifetime job for whatever other reason and whenever the hitting coach speaks he seems to sound like a complete goof. If this is the group they expect to be around when this team is ready, good luck with that. If your theory is "do no harm" regarding your managerial staff, this group is gasoline on a fire.

It sounds like Mr. Reinsdorf is having Mr. Hahn keep them all around, however, which is not really a good thing. It seems like they're still a step behind the smart teams like Houston, Boston, Tampa, etc.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Their starting pitch is shit. Look at the RD. Third worst in the Majors. Too many injuries and those holes have not been filled with anyone worthy of getting MLB innings. It's really bad.

Lopez looks like he's made some adjustments. That needs to continue. Dylan Covey sucks and has no place in the Majors. Cease is finding his way still. They just called Carson Fulmer back up, which likely means more of the same.

They need to make some moves in the next 24 hours. Right now they're slotted at 8th in the 2020 MLB Draft. They may not lose 100 games, but they're on pace to lose 90+ now. They are definitely not "buyers."

I really think their MLB coaching staff are a bunch of slap dicks. Renteria loves to bunt for some reason, Don Cooper has a lifetime job for whatever other reason and whenever the hitting coach speaks he seems to sound like a complete goof. If this is the group they expect to be around when this team is ready, good luck with that. If your theory is "do no harm" regarding your managerial staff, this group is gasoline on a fire.

It sounds like Mr. Reinsdorf is having Mr. Hahn keep them all around, however, which is not really a good thing. It seems like they're still a step behind the smart teams like Houston, Boston, Tampa, etc.

I mean, what other choice do they have at this point?

Even when the pitching had somewhat stabilized for a brief time, they were still not a playoff team.

The progress from Lopez has been very reassuring. Sadly Giolito has come down to Earth a bit, getting shelled by the Twins his last outing. The injuries to Kopech, Rodon and Dunning have been complete death knells to this rotation. 1 injury is enough to overcome, but not 3. No team can overcome that. That's why the Sox have had to basically scramble to muster up just about anything of substance from mostly scrubs. Their remaining minor arms are either not ready and they're not in position to pony up assets for legit arms. So that's why they're essentially scraping the bargain bin.

As for Renteria and Cooper, I can take or leave them at this point. I don't think Renteria is the manager of the future, but I think he has his benefits. He's a good stabilizing locker room manager, so for a rebuilding roster, he's good to keep around for now. But he's also frustratingly married to small ball in a long ball game with a lot of long ball players in a long ball park. That being said, Renteria isn't really being given a fair shake here. His rosters have been awful for the better part of the last 3 seasons. Even now with some major pieces of the rebuild on roster, there's still a ton of holes and guys keep getting hurt.

With Cooper, much of the same. I just can't rag on him because he's essentially being asked to make chicken salad with chicken sh*t. The pitching staff is awful, but that's because it's comprised mostly of awful pitchers with little to no ceiling.

Bear in mind, Houston was in a similar position to this, but they were A LOT worse than even the Sox are right now. They had something like 3 or 4 seasons where they finished with less than 60 wins. It was downright embarrassing. Of course, the Astros cut ties with Bo Porter after year 2.

Time to kick the Girardi tires, but I get the feeling that Omar Vizquel is the manager of the future.

 

[Rogue219]

I mean, what other choice do they have at this point?

With their infrastructure at the top? None.

Even when the pitching had somewhat stabilized for a brief time, they were still not a playoff team.

No, but they're looking to progress and improve. Individual players have done that but as a whole they are still on pace to lose 90+ games. Not what you want.

The progress from Lopez has been very reassuring. Sadly Giolito has come down to Earth a bit, getting shelled by the Twins his last outing. The injuries to Kopech, Rodon and Dunning have been complete death knells to this rotation. 1 injury is enough to overcome, but not 3. No team can overcome that. That's why the Sox have had to basically scramble to muster up just about anything of substance from mostly scrubs. Their remaining minor arms are either not ready and they're not in position to pony up assets for legit arms. So that's why they're essentially scraping the bargain bin.

As for Renteria and Cooper, I can take or leave them at this point. I don't think Renteria is the manager of the future, but I think he has his benefits. He's a good stabilizing locker room manager, so for a rebuilding roster, he's good to keep around for now. But he's also frustratingly married to small ball in a long ball game with a lot of long ball players in a long ball park. That being said, Renteria isn't really being given a fair shake here. His rosters have been awful for the better part of the last 3 seasons. Even now with some major pieces of the rebuild on roster, there's still a ton of holes and guys keep getting hurt.

Renteria has perhaps found a niche as a guy who manages rebuilds, then when it's time to be good, he's out.

With Cooper, much of the same. I just can't rag on him because he's essentially being asked to make chicken salad with chicken sh*t. The pitching staff is awful, but that's because it's comprised mostly of awful pitchers with little to no ceiling.

All of Giolito's improvements were on his own during the offseason. James McCann and Ivan Nova have done more for the kids than Cooper. He's super old school in a completely new age of development and coaching. He's survived multiple managers and GMs with this club. Why?

Bear in mind, Houston was in a similar position to this, but they were A LOT worse than even the Sox are right now. They had something like 3 or 4 seasons where they finished with less than 60 wins. It was downright embarrassing. Of course, the Astros cut ties with Bo Porter after year 2.

They were also tanking on purpose. The White Sox had some bad years prior to the rebuild where they were TRYING and still turned out horrendous. That's embarrassing.

Time to kick the Girardi tires, but I get the feeling that Omar Vizquel is the manager of the future.

Joe Girardi is more of the same. He's a name. He's going backwards vs where the game is headed. I agree that they're probably looking at Vizquel so assume the seat at some point, but if they were smart they'd be looking a little further outside of their comfort zone. This franchise doesn't seem to like that, though.

If you want a former catcher or former Cleveland Indian to manage your team, Sandy Alomar Jr. should be getting looks.

.

 

[Southside Sully]

I have no idea how Sandy Alomar Jr., still hasn't landed a job managing. I do agree I think Vizquel is on the fast track to the bench, but i don't know if it will be by next year or year after.

Ricky's managing of the pen, and bunting driving me insane.

 

[Rogue219]

The bunting is terrible.

Nate Jones was traded to the Rangers for a couple of minor league arms. Sox also included international pool money and cash, which seems odd to me.

Madrigal got promoted to AAA.

 

[Rogue219]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2019/07/white-sox-trade-nate-jones-rangers.html

As for the ChiSox, they’ll bid adieu to one of the organization’s longest-tenured players. While they’re including some cash in the deal, Grant implies that the buyout on the option would be the Rangers’ responsibility, so the Sox are still saving a bit of money. They’re also adding a pair of young righties who’ve spent the season pitching in Rookie ball.

Jarneski, 19, was the Rangers’ 12th-round pick in 2017 and has returned to the field in 2019 after missing the ’18 season due to injury. He’s made 10 appearances and posted a 1.62 ERA with a 16-to-11 K/BB ratio in 16 2/3 innings in the Arizona League. Castro, 22, is in his second season with the Dominican Summer League, having pitched to a 2.02 ERA with 7.1 K/9 and 3.8 BB/9 in 35 1/3 innings. He’s old for the level at which he’s currently pitching, though. Neither is considered to be among the Rangers’ best farmhands.

Interesting.

 

[Crazy Balki]

.

The point of this season was for integral core pieces to make progress. That's happened. In terms of the team, I don't know what to tell you. A team with a few major core pieces and a bunch of garbage around it isn't going anywhere. Nobody should be surprised. I was surprised they managed to hang around the .500 mark as long as they did, but when your pitching rotation consists of Giolito, a rookie Dylan Cease fresh out of the minors, a struggling Reynaldo Lopez, the sometimes decent but mostly terrible Ivan Nova, then a game of musical chairs of incompetent arms like Banuelos, Covey, DeSpaigne, Detweiler, etc. Throw in a bunch of injuries, that's a recipe for a 90+ loss season more often than not.

I'm ready to move on from Renteria and Cooper. Renteria's obsession with bunts and his oftentimes idiotic assembly of the lineup has driven me up a wall. Though with a lineup with more holes in it than a fine Swiss cheese, there's only so many decent orderings that work. Cooper has been such a polarizing figure for the Sox the last decade, but I can't help but look at the sheer vapid amount of talent he's had at his disposal and think, how can he be gauged when he's given nothing to work with? Giolito did go outside to improve his approach, but on the flip side, Lopez struggled mightily out of the gate, but he's worked with Cooper to fix his approach and the results show.

I don't get what you mean by "they were tanking on purpose". Do you mean they purposefully traded their best players and started from the ground up? If so, then that's what the White Sox are doing right now. Keep in mind, the White Sox did try to compete for years and were awful at it. However, the Astros were worse than the White Sox have ever been for several years in succession. Keep in mind, the Astros are only one of 2 franchises to have back-to-back-to-back 100+ loss seasons in the last 40 years (other being the Royals). That is beyond embarrassing. And it's not like the Astros were setting the world on fire prior to that either. From 2006 to 2010, they didn't make the playoffs once and had win totals of 82, 73, 86, 74 and 76. 2 winning seasons and 3 losing ones, followed by 3 historically bad seasons. I'd say that's worse than the White Sox.

I don't get the Girardi hate. He comes from a winning franchise and was successful with the Yankees. His problems were similar to that of Joel Quenneville with the Hawks. After a while, your voice stops resonating in the clubhouse and players stop listening. He would have a new outlook and an opportunity to start fresh with the White Sox.

But I'd like going with Alomar and honestly Vizquel too (which is who I expect them to go with). Those guys at least have coaching experience, unlike Ventura who had none at all, though that doesn't seem to be hurting Aaron Boone with the Yankees.

 

[Rogue219]

The point of this season was for integral core pieces to make progress. That's happened. In terms of the team, I don't know what to tell you. A team with a few major core pieces and a bunch of garbage around it isn't going anywhere. Nobody should be surprised. I was surprised they managed to hang around the .500 mark as long as they did, but when your pitching rotation consists of Giolito, a rookie Dylan Cease fresh out of the minors, a struggling Reynaldo Lopez, the sometimes decent but mostly terrible Ivan Nova, then a game of musical chairs of incompetent arms like Banuelos, Covey, DeSpaigne, Detweiler, etc. Throw in a bunch of injuries, that's a recipe for a 90+ loss season more often than not.

They could be drafting in the Top Five again. That's not progress.

I'm ready to move on from Renteria and Cooper. Renteria's obsession with bunts and his oftentimes idiotic assembly of the lineup has driven me up a wall. Though with a lineup with more holes in it than a fine Swiss cheese, there's only so many decent orderings that work. Cooper has been such a polarizing figure for the Sox the last decade, but I can't help but look at the sheer vapid amount of talent he's had at his disposal and think, how can he be gauged when he's given nothing to work with? Giolito did go outside to improve his approach, but on the flip side, Lopez struggled mightily out of the gate, but he's worked with Cooper to fix his approach and the results show.

Start from right now and go back to their last winning season. Look at everything in between. What's he done? There's roster construction, yes, but the lack of results are alarming if you look at the numbers. Consider they had Sale and Quitana during that time as well. The guy might be past his prime yet he's a staple there and still has a job.

I don't get what you mean by "they were tanking on purpose". Do you mean they purposefully traded their best players and started from the ground up? If so, then that's what the White Sox are doing right now. Keep in mind, the White Sox did try to compete for years and were awful at it. However, the Astros were worse than the White Sox have ever been for several years in succession. Keep in mind, the Astros are only one of 2 franchises to have back-to-back-to-back 100+ loss seasons in the last 40 years (other being the Royals). That is beyond embarrassing. And it's not like the Astros were setting the world on fire prior to that either. From 2006 to 2010, they didn't make the playoffs once and had win totals of 82, 73, 86, 74 and 76. 2 winning seasons and 3 losing ones, followed by 3 historically bad seasons. I'd say that's worse than the White Sox.

You want to know the main difference between the White Sox and Astros? The Astros hired new front office personnel for their teardown. So did the Cubs. They were transparently trying to lose. The Sox were TRYING to win and had horrible seasons while doing so before their rebuild started. Hence trading Fernando Tatis Jr. for James Shields. A few moths later they began their rebuild. Astros and White Sox? No comparison.

I don't get the Girardi hate. He comes from a winning franchise and was successful with the Yankees. His problems were similar to that of Joel Quenneville with the Hawks. After a while, your voice stops resonating in the clubhouse and players stop listening. He would have a new outlook and an opportunity to start fresh with the White Sox.

I never said I hated him. He's old school and not what they should be looking for in today's game. If he's so great, why isn't he working? Several teams had openings this past winter. He filled none of those. The Yankees are pretty far away from the White Sox when it comes to resources, front office, ownership, tradition. It's not the same. He had one year with the Marlins. Not enough of a sample size. People know him. Listen to interviews with him. Not the most open minded when it comes to using the resources today's front offices are capable of providing him.

But I'd like going with Alomar and honestly Vizquel too (which is who I expect them to go with). Those guys at least have coaching experience, unlike Ventura who had none at all, though that doesn't seem to be hurting Aaron Boone with the Yankees.

This starts with ownership and front office. At this moment, this feels like Kenny Williams is running the show again. I could be completely wrong, but they're batting AJ Reed clean up last night while telling everyone yesterday they're done with talent acquisition and will be aggressive in the off season? There are some red flags here this fan base should be taking notice of now. They probably should have been more active yesterday than just moving Nate Jones. They weren't. I'd be a bit concerned with where the help is going to come from, especially if they're talking 2020 as the time to contend, which is sounds like they are.

The bottom line here is yesterday this team gave up international pool money and Nate Jones but did nothing else. It's strange to say the least, especially with the flux of Cuban talent on the way. You should be hoarding whatever INTL pool dollars you have, especially if you're in the position this franchise is in. They have a pretty bare payroll as it is.

My guess is Abreu (and Jones for that matter) are going to be back. They're not going to get Cole this winter. Bet your ass on that. We still don't know what Lopez is. Rodon can't stay healthy. No one knows what Kopech will look like. Cease is struggling more than anyone thought. There are still questions in the lineup as well. When they say they're going to be aggressive this winter, should they be trusted? Again, we all saw what happened with Machado. Are they a destination for free agents (like Cole) of that caliber?

The questions here lie more with ownership and the front office. Dumping the salary of their longest tenured player and giving up international money seems odd given their current status.

 

[Crazy Balki]

The bottom line here is yesterday this team gave up international pool money and Nate Jones but did nothing else. It's strange to say the least, especially with the flux of Cuban talent on the way. You should be hoarding whatever INTL pool dollars you have, especially if you're in the position this franchise is in. They have a pretty bare payroll as it is.

My guess is Abreu (and Jones for that matter) are going to be back. They're not going to get Cole this winter. Bet your ass on that. We still don't know what Lopez is. Rodon can't stay healthy. No one knows what Kopech will look like. Cease is struggling more than anyone thought. There are still questions in the lineup as well. When they say they're going to be aggressive this winter, should they be trusted? Again, we all saw what happened with Machado. Are they a destination for free agents (like Cole) of that caliber?

The questions here lie more with ownership and the front office. Dumping the salary of their longest tenured player and giving up international money seems odd given their current status.

You mention that it feels like KW is running the show again. Couldn't disagree more. It felt that way from 2012 to 2016, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was calling the shots during that time. The second they committed to rebuilding, it was Hahn's roster and his calls. Since 2017, the whole organization has conducted business in an entirely different way.

It is apparent just by looking how the team operates, how they draft and how they are going about the rebuild that it's not KW calling shots. Something that wasn't apparent even in 2016.

What did you expect the team to do? They are basically standing pat until FA to add around their core. Trading assets only hinders their rebuild. Again, this is what teams in the White Sox position do. They're not buyers, so why would they buy?

Dumping salary and trading their longest tenured player is odd right before an active and vibrant FA period? How exactly? The Sox are looking to free up as much space as remotely possible so they can attack FA like Hahn says they plan on.

What are the red flags? That's about as clear cut as it can get. They're done acquiring players to try to compete this year and are focusing on FA in 2020. That's where the help is coming from, plus you have to factor in that Robert and Madrigal will be up from AAA, Kopech and Rodon will be back in the rotation. That's where the help is coming from. Rodon is a question mark, but he's a luxury at this point. A guy who will likely be at best a 3, more than likely an end of the rotation guy. Cease is throwing as expected. He's had his lapses but he's still getting his feet wet. Not worried there or with Kopech. He'll be just fine.

 

[Southside Sully]

You mention that it feels like KW is running the show again. Couldn't disagree more. It felt that way from 2012 to 2016, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was calling the shots during that time. The second they committed to rebuilding, it was Hahn's roster and his calls. Since 2017, the whole organization has conducted business in an entirely different way.

It is apparent just by looking how the team operates, how they draft and how they are going about the rebuild that it's not KW calling shots. Something that wasn't apparent even in 2016.

What did you expect the team to do? They are basically standing pat until FA to add around their core. Trading assets only hinders their rebuild. Again, this is what teams in the White Sox position do. They're not buyers, so why would they buy?

Dumping salary and trading their longest tenured player is odd right before an active and vibrant FA period? How exactly? The Sox are looking to free up as much space as remotely possible so they can attack FA like Hahn says they plan on.

What are the red flags? That's about as clear cut as it can get. They're done acquiring players to try to compete this year and are focusing on FA in 2020. That's where the help is coming from, plus you have to factor in that Robert and Madrigal will be up from AAA, Kopech and Rodon will be back in the rotation. That's where the help is coming from. Rodon is a question mark, but he's a luxury at this point. A guy who will likely be at best a 3, more than likely an end of the rotation guy. Cease is throwing as expected. He's had his lapses but he's still getting his feet wet. Not worried there or with Kopech. He'll be just fine.

This years deadline was way different to me than any other years.. Besides Greinke it didn't seem like teams were giving up their future for players being added. I think that is why the Sox didn't move many as the return didn't outweigh what they had/have. If Colome has another year of control and wasn't getting you back at least an A prospect, then keep him. Same with Abreu, as we know he will be back. I think the Sox could have made a swing at Syndegaard, and also Greinke. If they miss on starting pitching in this offseason, I'll be more critical of this deadline. The international pool money to me was too high.. Could have prob got same results for $500k.

 

[Rogue219]

You mention that it feels like KW is running the show again. Couldn't disagree more. It felt that way from 2012 to 2016, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he was calling the shots during that time. The second they committed to rebuilding, it was Hahn's roster and his calls. Since 2017, the whole organization has conducted business in an entirely different way.

He was. The last shot he called was James Shields. I'm willing to bet Hahn took over when they traded Duke for Charlie Tilson. Hanging onto Colome, however, doesn't strike me as something Hahn would do. They could've gotten something for him.

It is apparent just by looking how the team operates, how they draft and how they are going about the rebuild that it's not KW calling shots. Something that wasn't apparent even in 2016.

I think they have him as far away from the draft room as possible, and that's a good thing, but the draft and the MLB roster are two different things.

What did you expect the team to do? They are basically standing pat until FA to add around their core. Trading assets only hinders their rebuild. Again, this is what teams in the White Sox position do. They're not buyers, so why would they buy?

Fucking sell maybe? They have a few assets. An owner that doesn't spend is going to add to the core via FA? Their fan base has seen this before, yes?

Dumping salary and trading their longest tenured player is odd right before an active and vibrant FA period? How exactly? The Sox are looking to free up as much space as remotely possible so they can attack FA like Hahn says they plan on.

Vibrant FA period? Last winter Harper and Machado sat unsigned for months. There isn't anyone near their caliber of talent set to be on this upcoming market. How is is vibrant? And again, this owner is known for spending money?

They have Cuban players on board now and there are more coming down the pike. Why not hold onto the international pool money to spend it on that talent? This was a Jones salary dump to make the bottom line look nicer.

What are the red flags? That's about as clear cut as it can get. They're done acquiring players to try to compete this year and are focusing on FA in 2020. That's where the help is coming from, plus you have to factor in that Robert and Madrigal will be up from AAA, Kopech and Rodon will be back in the rotation. That's where the help is coming from. Rodon is a question mark, but he's a luxury at this point. A guy who will likely be at best a 3, more than likely an end of the rotation guy. Cease is throwing as expected. He's had his lapses but he's still getting his feet wet. Not worried there or with Kopech. He'll be just fine.

The red flag is the front office forfeited the right to spend $1 million of their own money today in order to save money and clear a 40-man roster spot in the off-season. It's Jerry Reinsdorf as you know him, and it isn't good. This organization should not be giving up this international money, they should be trying to get more. They should not be holding onto commodities like Colome and Bummer if there were any takers.

Rodon can't stay healthy, whatever anyone thinks he is. Can't be counted on at this point after five years. You don't know what Kopech is going to look like once he's rehabbed from Tommy John. If Cease is throwing as expected, with no command and no fastball carry, maybe he shouldn't have been called up. Perhaps another reason to not be completely trusting of the front office.

.

 

[Crazy Balki]

This years deadline was way different to me than any other years.. Besides Greinke it didn't seem like teams were giving up their future for players being added. I think that is why the Sox didn't move many as the return didn't outweigh what they had/have. If Colome has another year of control and wasn't getting you back at least an A prospect, then keep him. Same with Abreu, as we know he will be back. I think the Sox could have made a swing at Syndegaard, and also Greinke. If they miss on starting pitching in this offseason, I'll be more critical of this deadline. The international pool money to me was too high.. Could have prob got same results for $500k.

Pretty much this.

The Sox didn't really have much to deal outside of Colome anyways. Maybe Sanchez or Garcia. Abreu just isn't something competing teams are looking for.

I don't know how the Sox can deal for Thor or Greinke now without giving up some quality assets. The Stros had to give up a lot for Greinke, and I don't think the Sox would be willing to deal one of their core pieces for him. Between Thor, Bumgarner, Cole, Strasberg and Wood, there's no shortage of quality arms in 2020 FA.

The ideal pickup is Cole, but I'd be shocked if the Sox ended up with him. There'll be a ton of teams after him. But pair a tandem of say Strasberg and Wood with Giolito, Cease and Kopech, you are making a once thin and ineffective rotation insanely better, which will turn is key to turning this roster into a competitive one.

 

[Crazy Balki]

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- It's patently obvious that if a team was willing to deal quality assets for Colome, he wouldn't be on the team currently. Hahn did exactly the same with Robertson before.

- Drafting is often a crapshoot, but when KW was calling the shots, they had a specific model of athlete they were going after. Now seems more like they are going after high-tool hitters and technicians, more so than high level athletes.

- What is there to sell? Other than Colome, the Sox aren't getting jack for anything on roster that isn't part of the long-term competing roster. And again, if Colome was going to land them quality assets, he'd be on another roster right now, absolutely 100% certain of that. And if you're referring to 2019's FA, then I'm gonna have to stop you there. This team was not ready to compete and it was foolish to start investing heavy money and waste a year of control when they don't have to. Hahn is clearly giving priority to financial flexibility moving forward to maintain as many core pieces as possible in the future.

- Harper and Machado were sitting because their value was steadily rising to criminally insane levels. There isn't anyone near that level this year, but the Sox don't need guys that level. They need a few quality FA signings to fill gaps.

- The Sox need to think moving forward and saving money where they can, because there's gonna be money spent in 2020, and moving forward there's long-term core pieces that will need to be signed. Bottom line, schmottom line. This was about setting up FA and long-term signings for core pieces.

- The time to compete is drawing near, so no. Now is not the time to conserve international money. Now's the time to free up all the room to best position themselves to acquire FA talent.

- Rodon is a luxury arm. If they attack FA as aggressive as they say they are going to, then he's likely not going to be relied upon but anything he provides will be gravy. As for Kopech and TJS, I'd be very shocked if he didn't bounce back from it without little to no hitch. TJS is nowhere close to being the career derailer it once was and Kopech is a notoriously hard worker.

 

[Rogue219]

- It's patently obvious that if a team was willing to deal quality assets for Colome, he wouldn't be on the team currently. Hahn did exactly the same with Robertson before.

There were teams who had interest. Instead they traded an often injured reliever to dump his money and nothing else. It stunk of sending a second round draft pick to Golden State in 2017.

- Drafting is often a crapshoot, but when KW was calling the shots, they had a specific model of athlete they were going after. Now seems more like they are going after high-tool hitters and technicians, more so than high level athletes.

I'm not disagreeing. Again, 40 man roster management and the draft are two different things.

- What is there to sell? Other than Colome, the Sox aren't getting jack for anything on roster that isn't part of the long-term competing roster. And again, if Colome was going to land them quality assets, he'd be on another roster right now, absolutely 100% certain of that. And if you're referring to 2019's FA, then I'm gonna have to stop you there. This team was not ready to compete and it was foolish to start investing heavy money and waste a year of control when they don't have to. Hahn is clearly giving priority to financial flexibility moving forward to maintain as many core pieces as possible in the future.

Colome. Bummer. Garcia. The 1B/DH guy doesn't have a great deal of value, true, but a couple of AL contenders put feelers on Abreu. Alas, Abreu is most valuable for being in the clubhouse to play on the iPad with the younger Sox players. They're going to resign him, which will likely be a mistake. They probably should have traded him already when his value was higher. He's a talisman for the franchise, though, and if Mr Reinsdorf likes you, you're around for life.

- Harper and Machado were sitting because their value was steadily rising to criminally insane levels. There isn't anyone near that level this year, but the Sox don't need guys that level. They need a few quality FA signings to fill gaps.

All of these teams are flush with cash. Everyone should have been in on them. It came down to a few teams that made serious bids for both. They sat around because free agency is going the way of the Kennedys.

- The Sox need to think moving forward and saving money where they can, because there's gonna be money spent in 2020, and moving forward there's long-term core pieces that will need to be signed. Bottom line, schmottom line. This was about setting up FA and long-term signings for core pieces.

They practically have a bare bones payroll already, and there will be more coming off of the books after this year. I'm not sure what you're talking about here. The player who was moved has been injured for the better part of three years. Just now they decide to dump him for a couple of fringe prospects when they have two valued commodities in their bullpen they could have gotten more for?

- The time to compete is drawing near, so no. Now is not the time to conserve international money. Now's the time to free up all the room to best position themselves to acquire FA talent.

Okay, at the risk of sounding like a jerk, what the hell are you talking about? Your MLB payroll and the International Pool Money allotted you are two different things. They gave up some of one, and quite a lot of it, to dump more of the other. It was a stupid move. They have plenty of money available right now as it is. They didn't need to throw away money they didn't have to just to dump Nate Jones.

- Rodon is a luxury arm. If they attack FA as aggressive as they say they are going to, then he's likely not going to be relied upon but anything he provides will be gravy. As for Kopech and TJS, I'd be very shocked if he didn't bounce back from it without little to no hitch. TJS is nowhere close to being the career derailer it once was and Kopech is a notoriously hard worker.

Rodon was a first round draft pick. They've been waiting on the guy for years. Wasn't he their Opening Day starter? I don't understand how he's now a luxury because you assume that a team led by a man who notoriously doesn't spend money is suddenly going to start spending money. They have to make Gerrit Cole a legitimate offer, then he has to WANT to play for them. Who was the last free agent this franchise signed that turned anyone's head?

I hope Kopech is the same or better than he was. It would be a shame if he ended up being damaged goods.

.

 

[Rogue219]

This years deadline was way different to me than any other years.. Besides Greinke it didn't seem like teams were giving up their future for players being added. I think that is why the Sox didn't move many as the return didn't outweigh what they had/have. If Colome has another year of control and wasn't getting you back at least an A prospect, then keep him. Same with Abreu, as we know he will be back. I think the Sox could have made a swing at Syndegaard, and also Greinke. If they miss on starting pitching in this offseason, I'll be more critical of this deadline. The international pool money to me was too high.. Could have prob got same results for $500k.

Yesterday's lineup by wRC+ (100 is league average)

1. 93
2. 173
3. 99
4. 20
5. 97
6. 57
7. 114
8. 72
9. 87

Just how aggressive is this winter going to be for them? Moncada, Jimenez and Anderson are their solidified MLB players. Robert, Madrigal and Vaughn are on the move. Even if all of them are up in 2020, is a team that young going to contend for a Division? A lot can happen between now and Opening Day 2020, but I find it very curious that this is all going to be solved by spending money in the free agency.

They kept Colome and Bummer because they think they're going to be good next year or at least hope they will be. They could have found takers and probably had interest for both.

Last night was Dylan Cease's best outing so far. Keep throwing him. Might want to consider getting Collins back up and getting him at bats.

Sending down AJ Reed was a no brainer.

 

[Rogue219]

Also, why not call up this Danny Mendick kid. I don't understand wasting valuable MLB at bats on guys who are bad, but that's the route they seem to be taking.

 

[Rogue219]

When I look at the White Sox, I look at what teams in comparable positions did at the trade dead line: Tigers, Padres, even the Marlins. All did well for themselves.

Was hoping they'd stay the course and continue to flip whatever assets they had to continue moving toward contention.

Now to be fair, a lot of teams are not really "going for it" anymore and are playing it safe. Plenty of contenders could have used Abreu's bat or Colome or Bummer in the pen. The Pirates held on to Vazquez and he was coveted too. Ultimately, front offices are a lot smarter now and not gamblers anymore. They play the odds and most don't want to screw up.

I like what the White Sox have done to this point. I was disappointed they didn't continue with it, especially with the month they had.

 

[Southside Sully]

Please DFA Wellington, and AJ Reed - at least he is now in AAA.. But i agree.. Why not give these kids a shot like Mendick, Collins etc. Why do you keep trotting out some of these guys, they aren't going to bring you back major assets if you trade them. Goins and John Jay, thanks but no thanks.

 

[Rogue219]

Please DFA Wellington, and AJ Reed - at least he is now in AAA.. But i agree.. Why not give these kids a shot like Mendick, Collins etc. Why do you keep trotting out some of these guys, they aren't going to bring you back major assets if you trade them. Goins and John Jay, thanks but no thanks.

This.

Castillo went on family leave list just this morning.

 

[Rogue219]

https://www.soxmachine.com/2018/07/20/white-sox-obp-woes-continue/

Again, if you're looking to take the next step and make changes, this is a great area to lock into.

 

[Southside Sully]

Matt Skoke and Seby Zavala back up.. Hope they give Seby a legit chance for AB's and catching this time around.

https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/1157350824743526400?s=20

 

[Rogue219]

Matt Skoke and Seby Zavala back up.. Hope they give Seby a legit chance for AB's and catching this time around.

https://twitter.com/whitesox/status/1157350824743526400?s=20

Matt Skole just turned 30 this week.

Utterly pointless.

Zavala on the other hand should get some at bats. Especially with McCann coming back down to Earth as of late.

 

[Rogue219]

https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/08/02/tim-anderson-doesnt-cure-what-ails-white-sox/

The Sox haven’t struggled to score runs because of output at shortstop. They’re struggling to score runs because their batting order lacks a heart. Jiménez got hurt, Jose Abreu‘s OBP also ducked under .300, James McCann lost nearly 50 points of batting average during July, and A.J. Reed wandered into the lineup and stayed there until somebody finally asked to see ID. The White Sox are struggling to score runs not because they’re unclutch, but because so few of their players are able to keep the line moving to create regular pressure. The White Sox are struggling to score runs because they have the American League’s worst walk rate, second-worst strikeout rate, and worst isolated power number (corrected).

Ugh.

 

[Crazy Balki]

https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/08/02/tim-anderson-doesnt-cure-what-ails-white-sox/



Ugh.

Your two best hitters are hurt (Jimenez and Moncada), your next best hitter (Anderson) is playing hurt, Abreu is the consumate all or nothing batter.

McCann also needs to get back to hitting like he was in April-June, not July.

The rest of the lineup is littered with placeholders. The addition of Robert, Madrigal, a quality FA right fielder that isn't Tilson, Vaughn into 1B in 2021. You do a lot to vastly improve the offensive consistency in that lineup.

 

[Rogue219]

I'm looking forward to seeing all of the young men mentioned above bunting in the foreseeable future. This Renteria fellow thinks it's 1982.

Joe Sheehan summed up this franchise yesterday in his latest newsletter:

You can be the 2010s Pirates, or you can be the 2010s Astros, Jerry. Pick a lane.

They aren't even close to being what the Astros were before they became what they are now. The Astros have become THE data franchise and few are doing things as good or better than they are.

The White Sox on base and hitting problems are organizational. They've been problems for a long time now, too.

 

[Southside Sully]

I'm looking forward to seeing all of the young men mentioned above bunting in the foreseeable future. This Renteria fellow thinks it's 1982.

Joe Sheehan summed up this franchise yesterday in his latest newsletter:



They aren't even close to being what the Astros were before they became what they are now. The Astros have become THE data franchise and few are doing things as good or better than they are.

The White Sox on base and hitting problems are organizational. They've been problems for a long time now, too.

Yep i agree.. Will be interesting to see if they make some internal changes specifically in analytics and in hitting coaches.

Good to see Eloy and TA get that feel for the homer back yesterday. Also gotta appreciate the season Leury is having though it isn't talked about much. Will he be part of this team for the next year or two? Moncada #10 in MLB at 3B for WAR.. Nice season for him.

 

[Rogue219]

Andrew Vaughn is really coming out in Winston Salem. The boy can hit. Have to hope that they don't mess with him, Collins and Madrigal. Their plate approaches are just about opposite of what this organization seems to crank out.

The Sox have a pitching coach with the Dash named Matt Zaleski who is a Trackman guy and they also hired Danny Farquhar as a pitching coach. Farquhar embraces baseball intelligence.

 

[Southside Sully]

Andrew Vaughn is really coming out in Winston Salem. The boy can hit. Have to hope that they don't mess with him, Collins and Madrigal. Their plate approaches are just about opposite of what this organization seems to crank out.

The Sox have a pitching coach with the Dash named Matt Zaleski who is a Trackman guy and they also hired Danny Farquhar as a pitching coach. Farquhar embraces baseball intelligence.

Ya we are going to see him up in a Sox Uniform by September next year if not sooner if he keeps it up. Madrigal will be your starting 2b in 2020 when he gets the call up. Luis Robert - CF.

 

[pumpdog20]

Come on out to Iowa next summer. Watch a game, stay for the sweet corn.

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/White-Sox-Yankees-to-play-at-Field-of-Dreams-in-2020-527758351.html

 

[Southside Sully]

Come on out to Iowa next summer. Watch a game, stay for the sweet corn.

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/White-Sox-Yankees-to-play-at-Field-of-Dreams-in-2020-527758351.html

These tickets are going to be pricey! Great concept by MLB.

Also, how about TA just on a terror right now. Him, Abreu, Moncada, Eloys bat gets going next year, bring up madrigal and Robert. Starting to resemble a major league lineup. Lot of pitchers on the market this year too. Wheeler, Strasburg (don't want) MadBum, Cole and so on.

Keep Nova as a 6th man and long reliever.