Chicago White Sox... The thread.

Crazy Balki

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We needed stellar outings from our 4 starters.

Pretty much all of them got shelled.

We can blame TLR (and I'd say he definitely deserves blame for Game 2), but you're not going to win any games with our rotation getting worked like they have.

Such a disappointing series from what was suppose to be the strength of the team.
 

Wild Bill

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We needed stellar outings from our 4 starters.

Pretty much all of them got shelled.

We can blame TLR (and I'd say he definitely deserves blame for Game 2), but you're not going to win any games with our rotation getting worked like they have.

Such a disappointing series from what was suppose to be the strength of the team.

They deserve some blame but they could have pitched gems and still lost 2-1 in game 1 and game 4, at least for now.

The Astros lineup deserves some credit here too. They're clutch and they're not just capitalizing on the staff's mistakes - they have hit some decent pitches. They're aggressive on the base paths, and make us pay for every mistake.

The better team is winning.

Actually, these were decisions being questioned in real time right from the get go. Play the numbers. Even if the goofy old white guys on the broadcasts can't wait to tell you how much they hate analytics, go with the numbers. That was Tony's super power when it came to using his bullpen.

The goofy old white guys actually agreed with us, if I'm not mistaken, and criticized TL again today for not pulling Rodon sooner. I'm pretty sure goofy old white guys are behind the whole analytics thing. Could be wrong.
 
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BobbyMac

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Houston's the last team we wanted to face from either league. It was gonna take an '05 like performance from the starters to get to the ALCS.

The Bulls had to wait 3 years for the Pistons to get old. Sometimes you gotta be patient.
 

Crazy Balki

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They deserve some blame but they could have pitched gems and still lost 2-1 in game 1 and game 4, at least for now.

The Astros lineup deserves some credit here too. They're clutch and they're not just capitalizing on the staff's mistakes - they have hit some decent pitches. They're aggressive on the base paths, and make us pay for every mistake.

The better team is winning.



The goofy old white guys actually agreed with us, if I'm not mistaken, and criticized TL again today for not pulling Rodon sooner. I'm pretty sure goofy old white guys are behind the whole analytics thing. Could be wrong.

Unfortunately true.

I really had hoped that the momentum the Sox had going into the postseason would carry. It just hasn't. It was much of the same we saw since the ASB.

The big hitters just disappearing and mishandling the pen. I was absolutely disappointed in the rotation this series. None of them did well.

Bad situation with Lynn struggling as much as he has to end the year, Rodon throwing hurt and Cease's lack of experience. Gio didn't have his best either and was left out too long.

Just not a winnable situation when all four of your starters don't pitch gems.

I was really disappointed in this team's near complete lack of fight.

They lost games 1 and 2 by 5 runs each. And game 3 was trending that way too until Baker botched the pitching decision and thankfully we took full advantage. Then we go right back to lacking fight and are looking at another blowout loss.

This was the least competitive division series by a wide margin. I'm not mad we were outplayed. I'm mad at how badly we were outplayed.
 
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Rogue219

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The goofy old white guys actually agreed with us, if I'm not mistaken, and criticized TL again today for not pulling Rodon sooner. I'm pretty sure goofy old white guys are behind the whole analytics thing. Could be wrong.

The people behind analytics were complete outsiders with Ivy League degrees, little to no MLB playing experience and there is still a contingent of veteran broacasters that absolutely go out of their way to make snide remarks about it. It's been happening on broadcasts in the last week during the playoffs. Interesting way to market their product, having commentators go out of their way to remark how much they don't like the way the game looks and how analytics are bad, but to each their own I suppose.

As far as the baseball goes, This series was between two teams that were light years apart from each other in terms of their approach upstairs, in the dugout, on the mound and at the plate. Home field would not have made a difference. Houston is relentless and was out to destroy Chicago, which they did. Chicago hit the ball right to Astro fielders, and the Astros hit the ball where Chicago fielders were not. That's using the information that is readily available. LaRussa's defensive shifts proved costly. Chicago has the analysts. They must not be using them.

It's probably time that people move on from the whole "cheaters" bit, too. They're good. If people don't like how Houston was punished, that's one thing, but most of those guys are gone now with the exception of a few on this current team. Dusty Baker wasn't there. This isn't just Chicago fans during a short series either. This is everywhere Houston goes now.

I hope Houston beats Boston. I hope Chicago comes back next year. They're fun.
 

Wild Bill

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The people behind analytics were complete outsiders with Ivy League degrees, little to no MLB playing experience and there is still a contingent of veteran broacasters that absolutely go out of their way to make snide remarks about it. It's been happening on broadcasts in the last week during the playoffs. Interesting way to market their product, having commentators go out of their way to remark how much they don't like the way the game looks and how analytics are bad, but to each their own I suppose.

As far as the baseball goes, This series was between two teams that were light years apart from each other in terms of their approach upstairs, in the dugout, on the mound and at the plate. Home field would not have made a difference. Houston is relentless and was out to destroy Chicago, which they did. Chicago hit the ball right to Astro fielders, and the Astros hit the ball where Chicago fielders were not. That's using the information that is readily available. LaRussa's defensive shifts proved costly. Chicago has the analysts. They must not be using them.

It's probably time that people move on from the whole "cheaters" bit, too. They're good. If people don't like how Houston was punished, that's one thing, but most of those guys are gone now with the exception of a few on this current team. Dusty Baker wasn't there. This isn't just Chicago fans during a short series either. This is everywhere Houston goes now.

I hope Houston beats Boston. I hope Chicago comes back next year. They're fun.

They cheated and kept their title so who gives a shit if they catch some grief. It's not why they beat the Sox but it's well earned.

Analytics are important but you seem obsessed. We could have packed the stands with nerds crunching numbers and it wouldn't have mattered a bit. They got smoked in the three losses, and it wasn't bc some nerd taught altuve how to slide really well. They were just a better team. If they built a better team bc of analysts, that's a fair point. But the fact that they had 20 analysts to the Sox 10 here is irrelevant. We got our asses kicked.

I would have done a few things different if I were Larussa and maybe I would have kept the losses within a half dozen runs.
 

Rogue219

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They cheated and kept their title so who gives a shit if they catch some grief. It's not why they beat the Sox but it's well earned.

Analytics are important but you seem obsessed. We could have packed the stands with nerds crunching numbers and it wouldn't have mattered a bit. They got smoked in the three losses, and it wasn't bc some nerd taught altuve how to slide really well. They were just a better team. If they built a better team bc of analysts, that's a fair point. But the fact that they had 20 analysts to the Sox 10 here is irrelevant. We got our asses kicked.

I would have done a few things different if I were Larussa and maybe I would have kept the losses within a half dozen runs.

The people running this team should be obsessed with having the information everyone else does and using it. Sure, Houston was better, but at least put yourself in the proper situations and give yourself a shot.

Multiple things can be true at the same time: Houston was the better team, Chicago players didn't execute, the manager made poor choices in real time not in hindsight and one team was clearly in the correct defensive positioning and the other one wasn't.

Chicago made great strides with their pitch lab. Plate discipline and defensive positioning should be next. That's how you go further.

The White Sox had at bats in this series that looked like a Sunday game in June on getaway day. Tim Anderson had 551 plate appearances and 22 walks as a leadoff hitter? If they go as he goes, that's an issue. He's 28 years old and I don't think he's going to change that approach and they must not seem to want him to. Moncada made great strides with working counts. They need to instill this in Jimenez, Robert, Vaughn, Sheets, etc. That's how you become Houston.

Fun team to watch. Some minor tweaks in how they do things and a couple of roster changes, they're right there again. Looking forward to seeing what is next.

I suggest picking up Kimbrel's option and trading him.
 

Wild Bill

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The people running this team should be obsessed with having the information everyone else does and using it. Sure, Houston was better, but at least put yourself in the proper situations and give yourself a shot.

Multiple things can be true at the same time: Houston was the better team, Chicago players didn't execute, the manager made poor choices in real time not in hindsight and one team was clearly in the correct defensive positioning and the other one wasn't.

Chicago made great strides with their pitch lab. Plate discipline and defensive positioning should be next. That's how you go further.

The White Sox had at bats in this series that looked like a Sunday game in June on getaway day. Tim Anderson had 551 plate appearances and 22 walks as a leadoff hitter? If they go as he goes, that's an issue. He's 28 years old and I don't think he's going to change that approach and they must not seem to want him to. Moncada made great strides with working counts. They need to instill this in Jimenez, Robert, Vaughn, Sheets, etc. That's how you become Houston.

Fun team to watch. Some minor tweaks in how they do things and a couple of roster changes, they're right there again. Looking forward to seeing what is next.

I suggest picking up Kimbrel's option and trading him.

Sure, TA could take more walks and data can help everyone improve. He hit about 500 this series and outside of Robert he was the last person to blame.

How many nerds do they have to hire to ensure our starting pitchers will have an ERA under 10 next year? Advance stats and defensive alignment are nice but how do you win a series when your four starters barely pitched 9 innings collecitvely and had an ERA around 12?

I already said I would have pulled Gio earlier in game 2, and I'm sure they would have liked to pull Rodon out sooner in game 4 but Cease got pulled in game 3 after 1.2 innings, the pen was overworked and LaRussa rolled the dice thinking he could get more than 2.2 innings out of Rodon, as crazy as that would seem.
 

Southside Sully

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We need, another SP, a 2nd baseman, another OF, and having Yas, learn how to hold runners on. Besides that the team got another taste and need to make it happen next year. Whoever was in charge of defensive alignments on 2 outs, or, double play balls, also was atrocious
 

Rogue219

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Sure, TA could take more walks and data can help everyone improve. He hit about 500 this series and outside of Robert he was the last person to blame.

How many nerds do they have to hire to ensure our starting pitchers will have an ERA under 10 next year? Advance stats and defensive alignment are nice but how do you win a series when your four starters barely pitched 9 innings collecitvely and had an ERA around 12?

I already said I would have pulled Gio earlier in game 2, and I'm sure they would have liked to pull Rodon out sooner in game 4 but Cease got pulled in game 3 after 1.2 innings, the pen was overworked and LaRussa rolled the dice thinking he could get more than 2.2 innings out of Rodon, as crazy as that would seem.

Blame? Maybe not. His slash line was 368/368/368. 5K, no walks, 7 hits all of them singles. It has to be better.
Robert is 23. He had all singles but drew a couple of walks. 467/556/467.

None of them hit the ball in the air the entire series. It was a singles festival. Very odd. Everything they were hitting was not only not in the air, but it was being hit directly at Houston infielders who were in position to be where the ball was going to go.

Yes, the starters got beat up because Houston is just really scary 1-7. You can still prevent runs and get outs by doing things to help them, especially when there are two outs and you're looking to get out of an inning with less damage. Multiple parts moving at once, right? If the goal is winning a World Series, use what is at your disposal to get there. Putting the infield in the right shift prevents ground balls from getting through as hits, which leads to outs, which leads to helping your starters.

LaRussa was supposed to be the master bullpen whisperer. On that, I cannot help to determine what information he was or wasn't using. He went to Crochet at one point back to back for the first time all season. It was odd. Certain situations he should have gone to that lefty Bummer guy and didn't.
 

Rogue219

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We need, another SP, a 2nd baseman, another OF, and having Yas, learn how to hold runners on. Besides that the team got another taste and need to make it happen next year. Whoever was in charge of defensive alignments on 2 outs, or, double play balls, also was atrocious

More outs, less runs, lower pitch counts. Easy. They fired the last guy because he mismanaged the Covid playoff with Oakland. What you just got in four games looked like a lateral move.

A backup catcher will help you tremendously. Grandal is an on base machine. He's being paid for that part of his game. Pirates could trade them Jacob Stallings. Would love a couple of these White Sox fringe prospects.

I would say second base and right field should be priorities. Preferably on base guys who do the little things. The power is there.

The rotation is going to be interesting. Doubtful Rodon comes back right? Keuchel looks like his best days are behind him. If they stretch out Kopech, they'd better teach him to get movement on that fastball. 100 MPH is great, but if it is straight as an arrow the big boys in October are going to be able to hit that.

Again, some tweaking. Not a big overhaul needed. Not a team that tends to spend big, but maybe if Tony stays his buddy the Chairman will open up the checkbook again if they really want to win together.
 

Dale

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Never heard of La Russa as a bullpen whisperer but wherever that came from didn’t account or credit it was because he had Dave Duncan, Duncan was with him from 1983 - 2011
 

Rogue219

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Never heard of La Russa as a bullpen whisperer but wherever that came from didn’t account or credit it was because he had Dave Duncan, Duncan was with him from 1983 - 2011

TLR is credited for revolutionizing pitcher usage, the bullpen in particular. Dennis Eckerlsly? You see his name attached to it way more than Duncan's. Slam dunk Google Search.

Duncan the pitching coach was known for preaching getting all the groundball outs you can. The strategy of using and changing pitchers is attached to TLR, right or wrong.
 

Dale

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TLR is credited for revolutionizing pitcher usage, the bullpen in particular. Dennis Eckerlsly? You see his name attached to it way more than Duncan's. Slam dunk Google Search.

Duncan the pitching coach was known for preaching getting all the groundball outs you can. The strategy of using and changing pitchers is attached to TLR, right or wrong.

Duncan literally was analytics before analytics. He had binders and binders and binders of his own information. To the point some have even suggested the Cardinals dominance receding a bit is because a computer for any team can do some of the things Duncan was doing himself now. That’s pitch selection, positioning with his pitchers, usage, everything. Most Cardinal fans I think would agree anything in the pitching realm, you credit Duncan.

Ron Darling I believed said in his book that Duncan would do these type of things without even telling La Russa why lol.
 

Rogue219

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Duncan literally was analytics before analytics. He had binders and binders and binders of his own information. To the point some have even suggested the Cardinals dominance receding a bit is because a computer for any team can do some of the things Duncan was doing himself now. That’s pitch selection, positioning with his pitchers, usage, everything. Most Cardinal fans I think would agree anything in the pitching realm, you credit Duncan.

Ron Darling I believed said in his book that Duncan would do these type of things without even telling La Russa why lol.

He's not getting the credit.
 

Southside Sully

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Very interesting thread here again about Sox GB%
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/everything_sox/status/1448146361430548483?s=20[/TWEET]
 

Rogue219

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Very interesting thread here again about Sox GB%
[TWEET]https://twitter.com/everything_sox/status/1448146361430548483?s=20[/TWEET]

All good teams this year. Interesting.

Hit the ball in the damn air. Ball go far, team go far.

Noticed that TLR said something about him coming back being up to the front office. Then today Tim Anderson said he hopes TLR is back but it's up to the front office.

Strange. Maybe reading too much into it but wondering if there is some doubt about TLR in 2022? His contract goes to next year.
 

Southside Sully

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All good teams this year. Interesting.

Hit the ball in the damn air. Ball go far, team go far.

Noticed that TLR said something about him coming back being up to the front office. Then today Tim Anderson said he hopes TLR is back but it's up to the front office.

Strange. Maybe reading too much into it but wondering if there is some doubt about TLR in 2022? His contract goes to next year.

Hes 77.. I bet he learned that the Grind at this age is not worth it anymore, and he moved up the all times win list... I bet he's gone, but they hire someone (Miguel Cairo or Joe McEwing)
 

Rogue219

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Hes 77.. I bet he learned that the Grind at this age is not worth it anymore, and he moved up the all times win list... I bet he's gone, but they hire someone (Miguel Cairo or Joe McEwing)

Sounds like he's coming back. Speculation over.

Your GM wanted AJ Hinch. Something tells me when TLR leaves, if he has the choice, the GM isn't going in house for this one.

Joe Espada, Houston bench coach maybe?
 

Rogue219

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Would Mr. Reinsdorf go for it this winter? Simien and Castellanos are two guys who fill holes on this very talented team. Conforto is out there too.

Javy Baez is not a good idea. Eduardo Escobar seemed to have their interest. He, like Simien, were once with the CWS organization.

Andrew McCutcheon would provide leadership. He's got a year or two left.
 

Southside Sully

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Would Mr. Reinsdorf go for it this winter? Simien and Castellanos are two guys who fill holes on this very talented team. Conforto is out there too.

Javy Baez is not a good idea. Eduardo Escobar seemed to have their interest. He, like Simien, were once with the CWS organization.

Andrew McCutcheon would provide leadership. He's got a year or two left.

They need another SP, 2B, and outfielder.. Here is an interview with Tony yesterday

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-...r-tony-la-russa-geared-up-for-spring-training
 

Wild Bill

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They need another SP, 2B, and outfielder.. Here is an interview with Tony yesterday

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-...r-tony-la-russa-geared-up-for-spring-training

I'll take Castallanos over Semien. Semien crushed the ball this year but he's 31 and his career numbers do not suggest you'll get 35-45 HRs from him over next three or four years. I'd prefer Castellanos who is 29 and/or a pitcher. Someone has to hit 9th in the order, and that may as well be Hernandez.
 

Southside Sully

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I'll take Castallanos over Semien. Semien crushed the ball this year but he's 31 and his career numbers do not suggest you'll get 35-45 HRs from him over next three or four years. I'd prefer Castellanos who is 29 and/or a pitcher. Someone has to hit 9th in the order, and that may as well be Hernandez.

Disagree.. Sox need someone to just get on base at 2B and play great defense.. They don't need another home run hitter for that position. Need someone competent and above average OBP, and Fielding %
 

Rogue219

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Disagree.. Sox need someone to just get on base at 2B and play great defense.. They don't need another home run hitter for that position. Need someone competent and above average OBP, and Fielding %

Why wouldn't you want a guy that hits home runs at every position? Chicago was 19th in the Majors in Home Runs in the regular season but 10th in Total Bases. Granted, the boppers spent a lot of time injured last season, but even with that they hit 190 as a team. With that squad healthy plus two more bats at 2B and RF you're looking like an even greater force.

The bottom five in HR: Ranger, Royals, Marlins, Diamondbacks, Pirates. That's toilet bad.

Simien just picked up Scott Boras as his agent. So I'm guessing Chicago has no chance there now if they ever would have to begin with. Second base might have to be a trade.

Your right fielder would look like Castellanos or Conforto. Either of those on the FA market would put them in great position. Chicago has quite the hitter friendly ballpark as I understand it.
 

Rogue219

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So who do you get?

Ketel Marte from the D Backs if you can trade for him. He hit 14 HR in 374 PA last year. 2019 he hit 32 HR in 628 PA. If you get him 500 PA for the White Sox in that lineup he hits you 20 HR as a safe bet. He played in a postseason with Arizona at age 23.

He can also play short and center. He's going to be 28 years old. He made $6M last year.

This is an upgrade from both Madrigal and the two months of Hernandez, who really didn't hit much for them after the trade.
 
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