BVG Fired

[dang227]

Actually, ND's #8 ranking in 3rd down defense indicates that scoring from anywhere on the field is no "auto Magic TD".

Ha ha! Damn typos. Still doesn't explain the fact we don't force turnovers, give up long drives and aren't forcing teams into FGs in the red zone. That's fine if you think they have played well this year. I don't and think it's a product of the system not the players. I think there is enough to talent on this defense to perform well above what they are. Hope they play well this week and hope to hell the feeling I have that the defense is going to get gashed is wrong.


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[irishff1014]

Just a guess but I think he will take a NFL DC job over staying here.

 

[kmoose]

That's fine if you think they have played well this year.

I don't think they have played well, nor have I ever said that. There is a HUGE difference between playing well and playing well enough. I think they have played well enough, and their 10-1 record indicates that there is little doubt about that.

They are Top 30 in Scoring Defense
They are #8 on 3rd Down Defense
They are #10 in Red Zone Defense
They are a better First Downs Defense than LSU and Michigan State.

Those statistics indicate that this defense, in the second year of his system, is improving leaps and bounds over what it was when he arrived. So one guy's tweet, without any context to it, doesn't sway me away from the position that VanGorder has been a net positive, so far, and I believe he will continue to improve the defense.

 

[dang227]

I don't think they have played well, nor have I ever said that. There is a HUGE difference between playing well and playing well enough. I think they have played well enough, and their 10-1 record indicates that there is little doubt about that.



They are Top 30 in Scoring Defense

They are #8 on 3rd Down Defense

They are #10 in Red Zone Defense

They are a better First Downs Defense than LSU and Michigan State.



Those statistics indicate that this defense, in the second year of his system, is improving leaps and bounds over what it was when he arrived. So one guy's tweet, without any context to it, doesn't sway me away from the position that VanGorder has been a net positive, so far, and I believe he will continue to improve the defense.

"Well enough" is an interesting use of words. It is true they have played well enough to go 10-1 in an injury plagued season. I can t argue with that. I did look up the stats and saw they are much higher rated in numerous categories than I anticipated. I wasn't expecting that. For some reason it just doesn't match what I see. The tweet does have context to me when in 2012 we gave up 0 drives of 75 yards or more.

Again, I would love nothing more than if they played lights out on Saturday. It would be great to see Day, Smith, Schmidt and Shumate take this team to the playoffs. I look forward to seeing what kind of adjustments BVG makes vs Stanford.


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[kmoose]

Again, I would love nothing more than if they played lights out on Saturday. It would be great to see Day, Smith, Schmidt and Shumate take this team to the playoffs. I look forward to seeing what kind of adjustments BVG makes vs Stanford.

I wouldn't count on it. They just aren't THAT good. As it stands, this is a defense that can shut you down, if you have to become one-dimensional. But they are not likely to shut down a balanced offense. Stanford appears to be pretty balanced: rushing offense (#10 @ 228.3 yds/game, 5.21/carry, 29 TDs) passing offense(#79 passing offense at 210.7 yds/game, 13.32 yds/comp, 21 TDs, 7INTs). I expect that Stanford will move the ball well against us, similar to what USC did. But we beat USC fairly handily, so there's no reason we can't do the same to Stanford. Just hope the offense plays well.............. enough!

 

[kmoose]

The tweet does have context to me when in 2012 we gave up 0 drives of 75 yards or more.

Actually, they gave up almost 6:

Navy had a 74 yard TD drive in the opener.

USC had a 75 yard TD drive in the regular season finale.

Alabama had TD drives of 82, 80, 97, and 86 yards.

 

[Grahambo]

He's going nowhere unless he accepts a position elsewhere.

 

[IrishLax]

Actually, they gave up almost 6:

Navy had a 74 yard TD drive in the opener.

USC had a 75 yard TD drive in the regular season finale.

Alabama had TD drives of 82, 80, 97, and 86 yards.

That Bama game was so brutal. I remember when we stuffed them on their first run and I was like "OH YEAH! WE GOT THIS! JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME!"

... and then the first time they threw over the top to Amari Cooper I was like "oh well, uh, hmm... that's different"

 

[phillyirish]

I don't think they have played well, nor have I ever said that. There is a HUGE difference between playing well and playing well enough. I think they have played well enough, and their 10-1 record indicates that there is little doubt about that.

They are Top 30 in Scoring Defense
They are #8 on 3rd Down Defense
They are #10 in Red Zone Defense
They are a better First Downs Defense than LSU and Michigan State.

Those statistics indicate that this defense, in the second year of his system, is improving leaps and bounds over what it was when he arrived. So one guy's tweet, without any context to it, doesn't sway me away from the position that VanGorder has been a net positive, so far, and I believe he will continue to improve the defense.

Considering this and all the injuries he has had to deal with, I'm starting to change my opinion of BVG. Most of the complaints on him are all based on people on this boards own presumptions. You know, assuming Nyles Morgan should be playing more instead of schmidtstain because he was a top 50 prospect; well maybe he's Steve Filer 2.0 ( I don't believe that but i also don't think he may be good enough to start as a sophomore on nat'l title competing defense). Or people say that his defense is too complicated that it prevents Max Redfield from playing up to his potential. Maybe he reached his potential and its just very average??

 

[CTIDANDREW]

I ask anyone on the board to provide me with a synopsis of how touted BVG has been on the recruiting trail for the Irish? I follow recruiting as close as I can, but completely understand most of you know much more...so just wondering if anyone can provide me with a quick article or write up of how BVG is faring as a recruiter in his two years here now? I ask this because I feel Diaco was at times under valued by the fans as an effective recruiter.

 

[irishff1014]

I ask anyone on the board to provide me with a synopsis of how touted BVG has been on the recruiting trail for the Irish? I follow recruiting as close as I can, but completely understand most of you know much more...so just wondering if anyone can provide me with a quick article or write up of how BVG is faring as a recruiter in his two years here now? I ask this because I feel Diaco was at times under valued by the fans as an effective recruiter.

If I recall he doesnt do a lot of recruiting from the articles I have read.

 

[dang227]

I wouldn't count on it. They just aren't THAT good. As it stands, this is a defense that can shut you down, if you have to become one-dimensional. But they are not likely to shut down a balanced offense. Stanford appears to be pretty balanced: rushing offense (#10 @ 228.3 yds/game, 5.21/carry, 29 TDs) passing offense(#79 passing offense at 210.7 yds/game, 13.32 yds/comp, 21 TDs, 7INTs). I expect that Stanford will move the ball well against us, similar to what USC did. But we beat USC fairly handily, so there's no reason we can't do the same to Stanford. Just hope the offense plays well.............. enough!

Agree about the offense. They are going to have to play well, not turn the ball over and score in the 30's to win.


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[dang227]

Actually, they gave up almost 6:



Navy had a 74 yard TD drive in the opener.



USC had a 75 yard TD drive in the regular season finale.



Alabama had TD drives of 82, 80, 97, and 86 yards.

I just pretend the Bama game didn't happen. I still haven't watched that whole thing.


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[pumpdog20]

Are we assuming Van Gorder picks up a head coaching gig this offseason? Because even though I have my qualms with this d, firing him would be a crazy, crazy decision.

Well, it's apparently easier to learn Chinese than to learn BVG's defense, so I don't think a change is all that out there.

 

[kmoose]

I ask anyone on the board to provide me with a synopsis of how touted BVG has been on the recruiting trail for the Irish? I follow recruiting as close as I can, but completely understand most of you know much more...so just wondering if anyone can provide me with a quick article or write up of how BVG is faring as a recruiter in his two years here now? I ask this because I feel Diaco was at times under valued by the fans as an effective recruiter.

According to Rivals, he has recruited:

Jay Hayes
Pete Mokwuah
Nile Sykes
Brandon Tiassum
Jalen Elliot
and Jamir Jones

I don't follow recruiting all that closely, so I can't tell you how that stacks up against other assistants....

 

[Irish#1]

That Bama game was so brutal. I remember when we stuffed them on their first run and I was like "OH YEAH! WE GOT THIS! JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER GAME!"

... and then the first time they threw over the top to Amari Cooper I was like "oh well, uh, hmm... that's different"

Not to derail the thread, but your comment reminded me of the Pitt game in '76. When I get into the stadium, the grass is really long. First play from scrimmage, Tony Dorsett is held for about a 1 yard gain and I'm thinking to myself, "OH YEAH! WE GOT THIS!". Next play Dorsett goes off RT for a 75-76yd TD. lol

 

[IrishLax]

I ask anyone on the board to provide me with a synopsis of how touted BVG has been on the recruiting trail for the Irish? I follow recruiting as close as I can, but completely understand most of you know much more...so just wondering if anyone can provide me with a quick article or write up of how BVG is faring as a recruiter in his two years here now? I ask this because I feel Diaco was at times under valued by the fans as an effective recruiter.

He doesn't really do much recruiting, and is far from an ace recruiter. He's a lot better than Diaco (and by that I mean post-2011 Diaco) in two ways:
1. Diaco refused to not only put in any work, but to be remotely responsive when it came to recruiting such that we pretty much didn't even have a target board on defense outside of a few blue chippers.
2. Diaco's lack of direction, organization, effort, and weird player profiles lead to serious holes at linebacker. We pretty much didn't recruit any ILBs in 2012 or 2013 and that has directly lead to the biggest shortcoming of our defense this year.

So BVG isn't really a net positive recruiting, but with the exception of the secondary (where Cooks dropped the ball last year because he knew he was leaving) there has been a lot of better numbers on that side of the ball since BVG and Elston have been at the helm than when it was Diaco and Alford.

 

[TheTurningPoint]

He doesn't really do much recruiting, and is far from an ace recruiter. He's a lot better than Diaco (and by that I mean post-2011 Diaco) in two ways:
1. Diaco refused to not only put in any work, but to be remotely responsive when it came to recruiting such that we pretty much didn't even have a target board on defense outside of a few blue chippers.
2. Diaco's lack of direction, organization, effort, and weird player profiles lead to serious holes at linebacker. We pretty much didn't recruit any ILBs in 2012 or 2013 and that has directly lead to the biggest shortcoming of our defense this year.

So BVG isn't really a net positive recruiting, but with the exception of the secondary (where Cooks dropped the ball last year because he knew he was leaving) there has been a lot of better numbers on that side of the ball since BVG and Elston have been at the helm than when it was Diaco and Alford.

I would disagree very much on the premise that BVG doesn't do a lot of recruiting. I agree isn't an Ace recruiter and kids aren't knock down the door to play for him like say Kirby Smart or Jeremy Pruitt, but he is very active in what Notre Dame does recruiting wise.

He might not have specific targets other than top guys, but he and Denbrock are the drifters. That is why their "area" for recruiting is so small. BVG locked down Robert Beal Jr. really early in the process and should get a ton of credit for that. Beal had Notre Dame as his number one, so it was easier, but for a potential five-star DE from that area to choose Notre Dame this early is unheard of.

BVG has put in a lot of time on the recruiting trail and developing relationships with recruits and their families. Is he Will Muschamp on the recruiting trail, definitely not, but he is a coach that is working extremely hard recruiting. All of the 2016 defensive commits, BVG has had a major hand in, including visiting DJ Morgan out in California during the spring.

 

[irishff1014]

Pack you bags. Your team can't tackle you keep sending stupid Blitz's. Just leave for the NFL.

 

[IrishLax]

Fantastic scheme in first half. Stopping McCaffrey and the run. DBs asked to do the bare minimum and can't execute.

 

[ThePiombino]

Fantastic scheme in first half. Stopping McCaffrey and the run. DBs asked to do the bare minimum and can't execute.

Yup. BVG doing his job. Our secondary isn't.

 

[IrishLax]

Blown coverage after blown coverage after blown coverage.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

Van Gorder is a gangsta....or needs to take a hike?

Van Gorder is a gangsta....or needs to take a hike?

Blown coverage after blown coverage after blown coverage.

Isn't blown coverage actually predicated on the fact that there is indeed coverage in the first place?

 

[Sherm Sticky]

I mean I don't even know what to say anymore...is it the scheme or just the players not able to execute?


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[IrishLax]

I mean I don't even know what to say anymore...is it the scheme or just the players not able to execute?


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I've seen a couple plays where the Stanford play call beats what we have called. The vast majority are just inexcusable failures to execute on good play calls.

 

[Wingman Ray]

Trash defense. There is no way this team competes in the playoff with this.

ND hast he talent. DC just sucks ass.

Not working at all. ND has the money, go get a decent DC that actually will make an effort to recruit.

 

[scUM Hater]

See ya vangorder see ya. Horribke, give me tenuta

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[TheChosen1]

@PeteSampson_: Notre Dame has now allowed 24 touchdown drives of at least 75 yards this season. Ridiculous. Allowed ONE in ’12 regular season.

 

[IrishLax]

Van Gorder going to be blamed for Redfield falling over.

 

[Irish Insanity]

@PeteSampson_: Notre Dame has now allowed 24 touchdown drives of at least 75 yards this season. Ridiculous. Allowed ONE in ’12 regular season.

While obviously unacceptable, we all knew this wasn't the 2012 D