Brian Kelly Revisited (RIP BOZO)

[gkIrish]

He is the guy who built Bosie State into what they are today. The same logic was used when Colorado hired him. "Look at the success he had at Boise State. Imagine what he could do with the talent that Colorado gets?" The result: 19-39 in 5 seasons.

There was a complete shift in competition going from Boise St.'s schedule to the Big 12. D'Antonio going to ND would be at best a slightly more difficult schedule.

 

[Irish Insanity]

So would you push out Kelly for Dantonio after this season? That's the logical conclusion of this argument. And it's actually achievable. Unlike, say, Nick Saban, Dantonio would probably come to Notre Dame. So do you swap Kelly for him? Yes or no?

I don't swap anyone for anyone at this point. After the season we can have this discussion. I don't see any problem with having a discussion about problems with our success that may include the coach. If we have another 8 or 9 win year, looking at other options is a good idea IMO. But I don't think Dantonio leaves MSU, maybe ever.

 

[kmoose]

There was a complete shift in competition going from Boise St.'s schedule to the Big 12. D'Antonio going to ND would be at best a slightly more difficult schedule.

That's a fair point, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't just assume that a guy who gets the most out of kids at a smaller school (like Cincinatti) will automatically excel at a larger program (like ND).

 

[Irish Insanity]

I don't know about II but I would cry tears of joy if D'Antonio was our coach. Only problem is he is 6 years older than BK.

I don't think he leaves MSU. But I may streak thru my neighborhood if so.

 

[Irish Insanity]

That's a fair point, but that doesn't change the fact that you can't just assume that a guy who gets the most out of kids at a smaller school (like Cincinatti) will automatically excel at a larger program (like ND).

Maybe assuming he will is a bit strong, but I'd be all for allowing the opportunity.

 

[irishff1014]

I don't swap anyone for anyone at this point. After the season we can have this discussion. I don't see any problem with having a discussion about problems with our success that may include the coach. If we have another 8 or 9 win year, looking at other options is a good idea IMO. But I don't think Dantonio leaves MSU, maybe ever.

I keep Kelly but he needs a new defensive cord. His offense is where we need it but this defense is days behind with the talent. This is Kelly's guy so if it doesn't get better Kelly pays the price.

 

[kmoose]

I keep Kelly but he needs a new defensive cord. His offense is where we need it but this defense is days behind with the talent. This is Kelly's guy so if it doesn't get better Kelly pays the price.

How much weight are you willing to put on the injuries that almost everyone agrees caused the collapse at the end of last season? Because if you take that stretch out, no one is saying VanGorder is a stud, but I don't think anyone is calling for his head either.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I keep Kelly but he needs a new defensive cord. His offense is where we need it but this defense is days behind with the talent. This is Kelly's guy so if it doesn't get better Kelly pays the price.

I think he needs to hand over the offensive play calling. Completely trust his caller.

 

[stlnd01]

I don't swap anyone for anyone at this point. After the season we can have this discussion. I don't see any problem with having a discussion about problems with our success that may include the coach. If we have another 8 or 9 win year, looking at other options is a good idea IMO. But I don't think Dantonio leaves MSU, maybe ever.

This is a thread about "revisiting" Brian Kelly, with at least some posters making the argument that he's never going to get us all the way over the hump.
If that's true, six years in, why keep him?
If we're not talking about not keeping him, we need to talk about who'd be better.
In my book, there are very few - if any - better realistic candidates that Dantonio (for the record, I don't think any of the coaches of truly elite programs - Bama, USC, Ohio State - would leave their job for Notre Dame, except maybe Charlie Strong).
So it seems a fair question. And if the answer is no, we're just talking to hear ourselves type (granted, that's the point of a message board like this). If the answer is yes, maybe we should just do it already.

As for Dantonio, I think he's a fabulous coach, and I'm not sure what more he can do at MSU, unless he wants to retire there and have the stadium named after him or something.
I agree he's a bit older than ideal, and I'm not sure he's cut out for the non-football sides of coaching at a place like Notre Dame. But he's a stand-up guy, knows the territory, won a lot of big games and great at player development.
I'm not on the "Fire Kelly" bus at this point - I think he's doing a pretty good job, actually, with some head-scratching in-game decision-making at times - but if he left for any reason, Dantonio would be high on my list.

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I think he needs to hand over the offensive play calling. Completely trust his caller.

Exactly. Let Sanford do his thing. Or quit hiring people if you aren't going to let them fully do their job.

 

[Irish Insanity]

At this point I like opening the discussion, but I'd like to wait to make my decision on firing Kelly till after this season. This season is a big measuring stick for me. We return a shit load of players. We have NFL talent at about every level.

 

[MNIrishman]

Dantonio at MSU
7-5
9-4
6-7
11-2
11-3
6-7
13-1
12-2

Kelly at ND
8-5
8-5
12-1
9-4
8-5

Just to have the stats handy

How about the stats when they were at the same school? Or the head to head?

 

[Irish Insanity]

How about the stats when they were at the same school? Or the head to head?

I don't think head to head matter. Personally I don't give a fuck if Kelly owns Dantonio. If it's only 1 of 8/9 wins that year why would it matter.

BTW, Dantonio seems to be having no issue with the triple option today. 28-7 MSU at the half. And they don't play it yearly (or multiple times a year).

 

[MNIrishman]

I don't think head to head matter. Personally I don't give a fuck if Kelly owns Dantonio. If it's only 1 of 8/9 wins that year why would it matter.

BTW, Dantonio seems to be having no issue with the triple option today. 28-7 MSU at the half. And they don't play it yearly (or multiple times a year).

I live in EL, I know the police here, and I can definitely tell you the kids are playing with different decks. So about that record when they were at the same school?

 

[irishff1014]

How much weight are you willing to put on the injuries that almost everyone agrees caused the collapse at the end of last season? Because if you take that stretch out, no one is saying VanGorder is a stud, but I don't think anyone is calling for his head either.

He had 4 good games and they were against bad teams. Texas blows and had 8 months to prepare.I am not saying injuries didn't hamper it a bit but 2nd season in and the defense looked awful against Va.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I live in EL, I know the police here, and I can definitely tell you the kids are playing with different decks. So about that record when they were at the same school?

What about it. We are talking about desiring our program to be a top 10 program again. So their record when they were at lower level schools should matter now? I'd take their comparison when they are at P5 schools all day long.

 

[kmoose]

He had 4 good games and they were against bad teams. Texas blows and had 8 months to prepare.I am not saying injuries didn't hamper it a bit but 2nd season in and the defense looked awful against Va.

What about against LSU in the bowl game?

I wouldn't say that the defense looked awful against Va. They only allowed 127 yards rushing, and they held them under 300 yards passing. They weren't great, but I would not call them awful either. Again, I think that's an emotional reaction to the defense not being able to stop them at key times.

But, also: I am not arguing that he has had great success, just that I don't think the average-to-good-to-great portion of his performance would have anyone calling for him to be fired.

 

[irishff1014]

Against LSU they were good not great but effective but again they had 4 weeks to prepare.

 

[MNIrishman]

What about it. We are talking about desiring our program to be a top 10 program again. So their record when they were at lower level schools should matter now? I'd take their comparison when they are at P5 schools all day long.

I'm saying ND and MSU play by different rules and play against different competition. So if you want to compare the coaches, you compare them when they played under the same rules against the same teams, or against each other. I'd like to win that much too. But Dantonio is not a better coach than Kelly.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I'm saying ND and MSU play by different rules and play against different competition. So if you want to compare the coaches, you compare them when they played under the same rules against the same teams, or against each other. I'd like to win that much too. But Dantonio is not a better coach than Kelly.

Sure, lets compare their time at Cinci.

Dantonio. 3 years, so none with his own players. For an average of like 6.5 wins.

Kelly. 4 years, so with Dantonio's players. For an average of 10 wins.

Looks like Kelly was fairly successful with Dantonio's players.

Now about 2012 with someone elses players.

 

[aubeirish]

Go Irish!

 

[gkIrish]

I'm saying ND and MSU play by different rules and play against different competition. So if you want to compare the coaches, you compare them when they played under the same rules against the same teams, or against each other. I'd like to win that much too. But Dantonio is not a better coach than Kelly.

Everyone in the country besides Notre Dame fans would disagree with you. It's a flat out unsupportable position. D'Antonio does so much more with so much less and none of the advantages the coach of Notre Dame has. Kelly has the head-to head record and that's it. And as I mentioned yesterday, you can't look at head to head because then you have to admit Brady Hoke is equal to BK.

 

[Fbolt]

unsupportable?

quite a word

 

[Cackalacky]

What about against LSU in the bowl game?

I wouldn't say that the defense looked awful against Va. They only allowed 127 yards rushing, and they held them under 300 yards passing. They weren't great, but I would not call them awful either. Again, I think that's an emotional reaction to the defense not being able to stop them at key times.

But, also: I am not arguing that he has had great success, just that I don't think the average-to-good-to-great portion of his performance would have anyone calling for him to be fired.

I had significant reservations about BVG when he was hired. Outside of the the first four game last year, his defense was worse than anything Weis threw out on the field IMO. It's definitely not from a lack of talent either, it's predominantly scheme. I hope I am wrong this.year but I don't want him coaching defense here if he is gonna drop Day into coverage five times a game.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I had significant reservations about BVG when he was hired. Outside of the the first four game last year, his defense was worse than anything Weis threw out on the field IMO. It's definitely not from a lack of talent either, it's predominantly scheme. I hope I am wrong this.year but I don't want him coaching defense here if he is gonna drop Day into coverage five times a game.

If he drops a lineman in to coverage at any point today, I'd be ok aith him not finishing the season.

 

[koonja]

I feel like this debate will be lop-sided after this game. Not sure which side though.

 

[gkIrish]

I feel like this debate will be lop-sided after this game. Not sure which side though.

I've been saying we have to look at this season as a whole so it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to thump my chest if they beat us even though I know people are going to try and give me shit if we win.

I'm rooting for Notre Dame guys lol

 

[Fbolt]

This Day into coverage is getting ridiculous IMO.

 

[koonja]

I've been saying we have to look at this season as a whole so it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to thump my chest if they beat us even though I know people are going to try and give me shit if we win.

I'm rooting for Notre Dame guys lol

I'm not saying it tells us exactly what BK is, I'm just saying message boards will go heavy to one side after this, lol.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I've been saying we have to look at this season as a whole so it doesn't matter to me. I'm not going to thump my chest if they beat us even though I know people are going to try and give me shit if we win.

I'm rooting for Notre Dame guys lol

.