Breaking: Boston Marathon Explosion

pkt77242

pkt77242

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Rhode Irish said:
I'm here to have a discussion, just like everybody else. I don't come here looking for things to disagree with. But some of the things that are said here discouragingly stupid. If you and I have differing world views and differing philosophies, that is fine. I have very close friends with whom I disagree on some of the same things we bang heads about. It isn't personal for me. But I do take exception to the casual way that some people here say things that I think most reasonable people would find offensive. You can say things to me about a high horse or whatever, and I've heard worse. When you're opinionated it comes with the territory. I just can't read some of this stuff without trying to interject some measure of reasonableness. If that makes me a jerk to you, so be it.



Is this is serious question? There is something wrong if you can't identify the racist elements in these posts. This is not about being overly sensitive or politically correct. The attitude expressed in this post is dangerous:



There really isn't anything that is NOT racist about this post. This is what is being said [my thoughts in bold]:

(1) I don't care about what happens to innocent people if they happen to be of a particular racial background. I don't care if they are good people, they deserve to be falsely identified as and suspected of being terrorists. [Really?? This is not racist? If admitting you discriminate against people based on their race isn't racist, what possibly could be?]

(2) All people of a certain race "have a thing" for killing people of another certain race. [That is not thinking on racial terms? Who do you think kills more white people? Arabs or white people?]

(3) I am not only scared of average people because of their race, I'm not at all ashamed to say so. And if you don't feel that way, there is something wrong with YOU. [This might as well be the definition of racist. Most people don't think this way. This is a big point of pride for most of the rest of the country right now, and especially people in Boston - that we aren't being reactionary and we realize that whoever did this doesn't speak/act for the rest of their race]

(4) I hope that people of the race I am against did this because otherwise it would really make me reconsider my racist thoughts. Luckily my skills of telling what country people are from by looking at them leads me to believe that my racist ideas will not be undermined. [There is literally no way you can say that this isn't racist.]

50miles may be a nice, charitable person and a good family man. He and I root for the same football team, probably for some of the same reasons, so he can't be totally bad. But what is quoted above is a backwards way of thinking. Calling it out isn't political correctness, it is standing up for what is right.
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HereComeTheIrish

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FDNYIrish1 said:
I think you make some good sense here. I've taken a few terrorism classes for work over the years and honestly when the information started coming in I immediately thought of two things. An anti-government domestic type (probably white) or a lone wolf type foreign student visa cell with radical Islamic beliefs more than likely middle eastern (north African) descent.
I wasn't hoping for one or the other and the race wasn't a consideration. This just seems to fit the profile for these type of attacks. If it was a well organized group instead of a faction, the results could have been far worse. The device was crude but obviously did awful damage to so many innocent people. But I stated earlier in the thread, a trunk or van or small box truck would have done much worse.
I guess I could be called racist for coming to these conclusions based on a certain profile, but I'm ok with that. I know admitting that would make me the mortal enemy of the ACLU and probably with some of you. I know people hate profiling based on race or religion, and it is a very slippery slope. But damn man, we have to be right 100% of the time, the terrorists just once. It really is a tough world we live in right now. I wish it were simpler and I don't know what's right or wrong to believe sometimes.
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Potential post of the year.... spot on, sir.
 
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Teen stunned at portrayal as Mass. bombing suspect

REVERE, Mass. (AP) — A teenager said he is scared to go outside after he was portrayed on the Internet and on the front page of the New York Post as connected to the deadly Boston Marathon bombings.

Photos of Salah Eddin Barhoum, 17, and friend Yassine Zaime were posted on websites whose users have been scouring marathon finish line photos for suspects. The two were also on the Post's front Thursday with the headline: "Bag men: Feds seek these two pictured at Boston Marathon."

The Post reported later Thursday that the pair weren't considered suspects, and the FBI has since identified two other men as suspects in Monday's bombings, which killed three people and injured more than 180.

But Barhoum, a track runner at Revere High School, said he is convinced some will blame him for the bombings, no matter what.

He said he was so fearful on Thursday that he ran back to the high school after a track meet when he saw a man in a car staring at him, talking into a phone. He said he won't feel safe until the bombers are caught.

"I'm going to be scared going to school," Barhoum said. "Workwise, my family, everything is going to be scary."

Attempts to reach Zaime were not immediately successful.

Barhoum's father, El Houssein Barhoum, who moved his family from Morocco five years ago, said he is worried his son will be shot and fears for his wife and two young daughters. He said he can't go to his job as a baker in Boston.

"Right now, we are not secure," he said. "So, the news (media), when they put something, they should be sure about the information."

In a statement, New York Post editor Col Allan said, "We stand by our story. The image was emailed to law enforcement agencies yesterday afternoon seeking information about these men, as our story reported. We did not identify them as suspects."

The photos show Barhoum with a black Nike athletic bag, wearing a blue and black track suit. Zaime is carrying a black backpack, wearing a white cap and black track clothes.

Men with bags at the marathon have been a focus of Internet scrutiny, because officials believe that's how the bombers carried in the explosives.

Barhoum said there are only two reasons he's been labeled a suspect: his bag and his brown skin.

Barhoum said he was at the marathon with Zaime, a friend from the running club, hoping to run a portion of it behind the official field. They took the subway, and Barhoum's bag was for his running gear.

But the pair got the address wrong and ended up at the finish line instead of where they wanted to start the race. Barhoum said they decided to stick around to see the top runners, then left.

Barhoum said that late Wednesday, friends started flagging the online photos and commenters started their work. He said he was so upset, he visited police early Thursday to clear his name. He said they advised him to restrict access to his Facebook account.

When the Post published the photo later Thursday, a bad situation got worse, Barhoum said.

"It hurts because the person who did it must be happy right now, looking at the people who are getting blamed," he said. "And I'm one of them."
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Rhode Irish

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FDNYIrish1 said:
I think you make some good sense here. I've taken a few terrorism classes for work over the years and honestly when the information started coming in I immediately thought of two things. An anti-government domestic type (probably white) or a lone wolf type foreign student visa cell with radical Islamic beliefs more than likely middle eastern (north African) descent.
I wasn't hoping for one or the other and the race wasn't a consideration. This just seems to fit the profile for these type of attacks. If it was a well organized group instead of a faction, the results could have been far worse. The device was crude but obviously did awful damage to so many innocent people. But I stated earlier in the thread, a trunk or van or small box truck would have done much worse.
I guess I could be called racist for coming to these conclusions based on a certain profile, but I'm ok with that. I know admitting that would make me the mortal enemy of the ACLU and probably with some of you. I know people hate profiling based on race or religion, and it is a very slippery slope. But damn man, we have to be right 100% of the time, the terrorists just once. It really is a tough world we live in right now. I wish it were simpler and I don't know what's right or wrong to believe sometimes.
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I don't think profiling is inherently racist. It can be done in a racist way, but it can also be a useful law enforcement tool. I think the thing people have a problem with is the assumption that it was one type of person or another, and then the leap to suspecting anyone that fits into that category. Would anyone deny that there is a chance that an Arab or a Muslim could have been involved in the attack? No. But does that mean that what happened to that poor Saudi Arabian kid was justified, or that the kid that runs track at Revere High School deserved to be on the front page of the freaking NY Post labeled as a suspect? Does every Arab or Muslim need to be a suspect?

My objection is not to sober and reasoned police work, it is to the mentality that we were attacked by a group of people....white people, dark people, any people. You can't make that leap.
 
irishpat183

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Zwidmanio said:
I don't disagree at all with what you started with but...

Unfortunately, the devolution of this thread began with racist and bigoted statements, not with the "name calling." Also, questioning whether or not somebody is an American is one thing, claiming that somebody does not look "American" is a display of complete ignorance as to the makeup of this country's citizenry.
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Actually, the makeup of country is overwhelmingly white...so is it really? While we're a melting pot, it's still more white than anything.

I don't think that not being comfortable sitting next to Arabs on planes makes you a racist, especially after 9/11. I also don't think that locking your car doors in a bad neighborhood is racist. If there is reason behind your fear, it's not racism. I'm sure there are minorities that feel uncomfortable in crowds of white people. And I don't see a problem with that, either. People feel comfortable around others that look and act and talk like them. It's human nature. No matter what someone tells you. And this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people go out side their comfort zone.

And yes. You can tell someone is a foreigner by looking at them. My wife, from South Africa, has certain characteristics that would lead someone to believe that she's from another country or at least of foreign descent. And the way someone dressed can also tip you off.
 
pkt77242

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irishpat183 said:
Actually, the makeup of country is overwhelmingly white...so is it really? While we're a melting pot, it's still more white than anything.

I don't think that not being comfortable sitting next to Arabs on planes makes you a racist, especially after 9/11. I also don't think that locking your car doors in a bad neighborhood is racist. If there is reason behind your fear, it's not racism. I'm sure there are minorities that feel uncomfortable in crowds of white people. And I don't see a problem with that, either. People feel comfortable around others that look and act and talk like them. It's human nature. No matter what someone tells you. And this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people go out side their comfort zone.

And yes. You can tell someone is a foreigner by looking at them. My wife, from South Africa, has certain characteristics that would lead someone to believe that she's from another country or at least of foreign descent. And the way someone dressed can also tip you off.
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I think this is funny. Yes the White are the majority here according to the most recent census (about 63% or so when it is white non hispanic) but do you know that they Census includes Arabs as White. It is racism. I don't judge people by the color of their skin, I judge them by actions. If someone is threatening (white, black, arab, hispanic, asian, etc),, that is the person of which I am scared. Could give a **** about skin color. Just so you know even if there is a reason behind your fear, it is still racism. That is one funny ****ing thought. Really. So if you see a hispanic and think they are illegal it isn't racist just because some hispanics are illegal? You must be ****ing kidding me.
 
Rhode Irish

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Not only that, but even if 90% of the country was one race, that still wouldn't mean that you could tell that someone was not from that country by looking at them. That really doesn't make ANY sense. Who cares who is the majority? There are (many) Asian, black, Hispanic, Arab, etc., people who are from here, and they are every bit as "American" as you and every white person you know.
 
Redbar

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pkt, Tom, zwid, and others, I for one appreciate your efforts, but if you spend any time in a non football related thread then you would probably realize you are charging windmills.
 
Zwidmanio

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irishpat183 said:
Actually, the makeup of country is overwhelmingly white...so is it really? While we're a melting pot, it's still more white than anything.
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Why does a white person look more American than any other person though? The racial makeup is not so overwhelmingly white that it would be unusual for a person of color to be an American is it? Do you really assume that any brown skinned, yellow skinned, or black skinned person is a foreigner? Do Northern Europeans look more American than Barack Obama? [/B]

irishpat183 said:
I don't think that not being comfortable sitting next to Arabs on planes makes you a racist, especially after 9/11. I also don't think that locking your car doors in a bad neighborhood is racist. If there is reason behind your fear, it's not racism. I'm sure there are minorities that feel uncomfortable in crowds of white people. And I don't see a problem with that, either. People feel comfortable around others that look and act and talk like them. It's human nature. No matter what someone tells you. And this doesn't apply to everyone. Some people go out side their comfort zone.
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It doesn't? Quick internet search for "racism" definition leaves me with "belief that humanity is divided into distinct biological groups called races and that members of a certain race share certain attributes which make that group as a whole less desirable...inferior..." Seems to me that you have a belief...that Arabs as a race...are more dangerous to you...and that makes it undesirable for you to be seated near them on airplanes.

No, locking your car in a bad neighborhood does not make you a racist, it's common sense. Pulling into a decent upper-middle class neighborhood, seeing a few persons of color that happen to live there, $hitting your pants because now you're really worried that your car might get broken into just might be. You say "if there's a reason behind the fear" as justification...but what is the "reason" aside from the fact that a certain person might not look "American" to you? That's not racism? Every Arab is a threat? If that's really how you feel, so be it. I'm certainly not going to be able to change your mind but don't hide it as if it's a well-reasoned and logical conclusion.

irishpat183 said:
And yes. You can tell someone is a foreigner by looking at them. My wife, from South Africa, has certain characteristics that would lead someone to believe that she's from another country or at least of foreign descent. And the way someone dressed can also tip you off.
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I just don't get it and I doubt we'll ever see eye to eye on this subject...but what visual characteristics are you talking about? Do you just equate white to American? If so, I doubt any further conversation on this subject could be fruitful. Either way, I'm happily off for the night.
 
Zwidmanio

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Redbar said:
pkt, Tom, zwid, and others, I for one appreciate your efforts, but if you spend any time in a non football related thread then you would probably realize you are charging windmills.
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Ain't that the truth? I really do try to avoid these debates, but it's hard to just let some things lie.
 
50milesSE ND

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Last post in this thread everyone sigh. I love America and those who embrace the values for what we are. Those domestic or foreign who want to cause us harm I hope you don't succeed, but if you do may you harshly be dealt with. I DO NOT CARE WHO YOU ARE, WHAT COLOR YOU MAY BE, OR WHO YOU PRAY TO. If you love this country as much as I do I would give you my shirt off my back. However my personal values as an American and who I pray to is very important. So Godbless and I hope we can defeat terrorism.
 
Andy in Sactown

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Bogtrotter07

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ACamp1900 said:
I understand they used pressure cookers... There must have been a new model that is not known to me used in this thing if they somehow fit in those back packs (if that's what the assumption is)... because every pressure cooker I have ever known is about the size of the back pack all by itself, and neither of those things are 'full' on appearance.
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Missed this one; the report is they used the thirty quart size. You ever lift a pressurecooker full of potatoes off the stove, (the old fashoned kind)? Not only large, but heavy too.
 
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Bogtrotter07

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FDNYIrish1 said:
I think you make some good sense here. I've taken a few terrorism classes for work over the years and honestly when the information started coming in I immediately thought of two things. An anti-government domestic type (probably white) or a lone wolf type foreign student visa cell with radical Islamic beliefs more than likely middle eastern (north African) descent.
I wasn't hoping for one or the other and the race wasn't a consideration. This just seems to fit the profile for these type of attacks. If it was a well organized group instead of a faction, the results could have been far worse. The device was crude but obviously did awful damage to so many innocent people. But I stated earlier in the thread, a trunk or van or small box truck would have done much worse.
I guess I could be called racist for coming to these conclusions based on a certain profile, but I'm ok with that. I know admitting that would make me the mortal enemy of the ACLU and probably with some of you. I know people hate profiling based on race or religion, and it is a very slippery slope. But damn man, we have to be right 100% of the time, the terrorists just once. It really is a tough world we live in right now. I wish it were simpler and I don't know what's right or wrong to believe sometimes.
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This post for example is a non-racist post. See how he is formulating ideas; not hashing over his belief system trying to make the facts fit his beliefs. Time will tell if he is right or wrong. But a few of you are trying to have an open and honest discussion, and a number of you are hashing over your own belief system complete with your own prejudices.

Here is the thing about hashing over your own prejudices: Since your world and your conversation must be contained within them it becomes very small. Instead of the expansive conversation that could take place with an open exchange of ideas. So it doesn't matter if you are the richest African Leprechaun out there, if you talk on that small base level, the people who think, aren't going to want to chat back and forth, because there is nothing new to cover.

Here are a few tips for those of you that have not acquired them:

Contrary to popular belief profiling isn't at the level you may think. There are a whole lot of people that can be described as white. In fact the term Caucasian came to indicate those from the region of the Caucus mountains which could include Mediterranean darker skinned, Mongol, and northern European lighter skinned peoples.

Iraqi's are not Arabs. Afghanistani are not Arabs. Berbers are not Arabs. Arabs are not Arabs. Jhadist that we have been talking about are not Arabs.

The only point of this post. The types of "organized groups" that have done bombings in the past are having a hard time getting matériels. So, I believe that this attack was more deadly. I believe the devices were more sophisticated, too. And because of that, it would be a domestic, or non traditional group. Like for instance. Most of the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay have gone on a hunger strike. Some of these men have been promised release a couple of times. They probably will never get out, because of what happened there, even though Barrack Obama promised to close that place down. This could have spawned a whole organized dedicated group that could have done something like this.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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Andy in Sactown said:
Can we refrain from allowing this conversation to deteriorate into 'false-flag' conspiracy theories from, wait for it, 4chan of all places.

That's like getting your sporting news from Bleacher Report.
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Funny and brilliant at the same time, leaving me with just a slight taste of vomit in my mouth, (not at the post).
 
F

FDNYIrish1

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Suspects reported to be of Chechnyan descent, the rebels in that place have been responsible for some heinous terrorist acts in the past. One suspect dead after shoot out. Curious to see what the logic was to their attack here. You guys probably remember the play and the schoolhouse attack. Ultra violent, sick attacks involving kids in the school case.
 
Ironman8

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Hey guys, I just woke up here in Cambridge. What is the situation for me?
 
Andy in Sactown

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Snow day. Only don't go outside. Suspect #2 is still at large in your area.

Looking for the list of neighborhoods told to stay put..

Edit: "Authorities urged residents in Watertown, Newton, Waltham, Belmont, Cambridge, Arlington and the Allston-Brighton neighborhoods of Boston to stay indoors."

Stay safe brotherman.
 
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irishpat183

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Just heard they got one of them in a shootout...the second on still at large.

Sadly, 2 police officers were shot. One killed and one critical.
 
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