Another Shooting

[drayer54]

Let's have a vote on it. More democratic.



On one point. We disagree on measures to prevent suicide and red flag laws. Suicide is two thirds (22k of 36k annually) of gun deaths in the U.S. If you have only taken guns away from other vets when they will surrender them to you and if you give them back when they request them, fine. That must be tough should you have experienced a fellow vet's subsequent suicide. More power to the work that you do and the interventions you can effect. You know your success/failure rate. Those without that kind of support have to deal with their demons with whatever support they have. Gun violence or gun deaths - whichever. Intentional or accidental. Homicide, suicide, accidental. Homicides that are justifiable as a subset. Intimate partner violence - attempts or successes.

Nearly one million women alive today have been shot or shot at by an intimate partner. In an average month, 52 American women are shot to death by an intimate partner and many more are injured. Approximately 4.5 million American women alive today have been threatened with a gun by an intimate partner. Access to a gun in a domestic violence situation makes it five times more likely that a woman will be killed.

Perhaps it would be nice if women in troubled relationships had the opportunity to defend themselves.

Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million, in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008.

The amount of firearms in this country has boomed for decades while overall crime continues to decline. Defensive firearm use is real.

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I'm fine with temporarily trying to disarm people who have demonstrated a no-s^it need. But the process must be legitimate and maintain the due process. I'm still skeptical that suicide can be prevented by eliminating one method of doing it.

Yeah, I've seen guys use guns to do it, but I've also seen them take a bottle of pills, dive off the roof, use the car, and a rope. Pills and the roof I've dealt with personally. There's a hell of a lot better ways to prevent suicide than gun control.

 

[Legacy]

Lots of good info.

Extreme Risk Laws (Everytown)

Extreme Risk laws have robust due-process protections.
Extreme Risk laws are designed to diffuse dangerous situations while also providing due process and a system of checks and balances. Those who request an ERPO must present evidence to a judge that demonstrates a person poses a significant danger of injuring themselves or others with a firearm. The person in question has the opportunity to respond to any evidence presented, and many of these laws include penalties for presenting false evidence. In a crisis situation where there is clear evidence someone poses and immediate risk, a judge can issue an emergency ERPO that would immediately suspend access to firearms until a full hearing is held, usually within 14 to 21 days. The final ERPO, generally lasting up to one year, can be issued only following a hearing of which the person is given notice and during which they have an opportunity to be heard and respond to evidence. Many of these laws also include strong provisions that deter people from misusing the ERPO process

Graham, Blumenthal announce bipartisan bill on 'red flag' laws in wake of El Paso, Dayton shootings (Fox News)

“Many of these shootings involved individuals who showed signs of violent behavior that are either ignored or not followed up. State Red Flag laws will provide the tools for law enforcement to do something about many of these situations before it’s too late,” Graham said, adding that he hopes that “Republican and Democratic colleagues will join us to finally move forward in the effort to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people.”

Feinstein introduced her own bill for extreme risk protective orders. There just should be a vote in Congress on this. That's the way our democracy should work.

 

[Irish#1]

Which of those is reasonable?

All three.

 

[NorthDakota]

All three.

Hahahaha it's a bit early for jokes.

 

[NorthDakota]

Let's have a vote on it. More democratic.

Let's protect the Constitutional right to bear arms. Less democratic, more Bill of Rights.

 

[dublinirish]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LSUPD: Reported armed intruder in Coates Hall. Run, Hide or Fight. LSUPD on scene. Monitor <a href="https://t.co/ZpdXns8r3I">https://t.co/ZpdXns8r3I</a> for further information.</p>— LSU (@LSU) <a href="https://twitter.com/LSU/status/1163902191687483393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Irish YJ]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">LSUPD: Reported armed intruder in Coates Hall. Run, Hide or Fight. LSUPD on scene. Monitor <a href="https://t.co/ZpdXns8r3I">https://t.co/ZpdXns8r3I</a> for further information.</p>— LSU (@LSU) <a href="https://twitter.com/LSU/status/1163902191687483393?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 20, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

looks to be all clear now.

evidently, some frat boy was oiling up on the lawn and said "suns out, guns out", and a few SJWs panicked.

 

[NorthDakota]

looks to be all clear now.

evidently, some frat boy was oiling up on the lawn and said "suns out, guns out", and a few SJWs panicked.

lmaooooooo

In college, the Army ROTC guys were doing some leadership exercises that involved a "bomb" and they forgot to pick one of them up. Someone came in later and saw it. We got a day of no class as a result. That was a good day.

There was also a bomb threat at a Home Depot in Kansas a few months back. You gotta watch the whole video

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[Irish YJ]

lmaooooooo

In college, the Army ROTC guys were doing some leadership exercises that involved a "bomb" and they forgot to pick one of them up. Someone came in later and saw it. We got a day of no class as a result. That was a good day.

There was also a bomb threat at a Home Depot in Kansas a few months back. You gotta watch the whole video

That's hilarious. Love that the producer had her read that. The message to the tree was priceless.

 

[Legacy]

Troubling rise of gun violence in St. Louis, Kansas City

ST. LOUIS (AP) — From huge rewards to calls for allowing Missouri cities to enact their own gun laws, leaders in St. Louis and Kansas City are grappling with a troubling rise in shooting deaths, especially those involving children.

This past weekend was especially violent. In Kansas City, four men were killed Sunday, including two in a drive-by shooting near a popular entertainment district. In St. Louis, six people were killed in shootings, including 8-year-old and 10-year-old girls and a 15-year-old boy.

Many of the victims of violence in the state's two largest cities are black, and black Missouri lawmakers are asking Republican Gov. Mike Parson to allow the House and Senate to consider during a special session next month legislation that would let cities adopt their own gun control measures. In a letter dated Saturday, state Rep. Steven Roberts Jr. a St. Louis Democrat who chairs the 19-member Missouri Black Caucus, told Parson that local leaders need the autonomy to act as they see fit on "this pressing crisis."

Kansas City - Missouri's largest city with 490,000 residents, about 30% of whom are black - has recorded 97 homicides this year, on pace to top last year's homicide rate of 143. Sixty-eight of this year's victims were black.

St. Louis has seen about 128 homicides this year, also on pace to top last year's total of 186. The vast majority those killed this year - 112 victims - were black in a city where about half of the 320,000 residents are black.

At least a dozen children have been shot to death in St. Louis since April, many of them in drive-by shootings, and the city is offering $25,000 rewards for information in five recent fatal shootings of children.

"We ask you and our rural colleagues to recognize that the slaughter of children in our state, and the hundreds of other victims of gun violence, demand immediate solutions that will produce results for our communities," Roberts wrote in his request to Parson.

Top St. Louis officials also believe Missouri's lenient gun laws are a factor in the upsurge of killings. Mayor Lyda Krewson noted that Missouri, in 2017, enacted a law allowing people to carry guns without a permit.

"Now almost anyone can carry a gun almost anywhere, anytime," Krewson said. "That makes the job for police officers particularly difficult."

St. Louis Circuit Attorney Kim Gardner blamed lax gun laws as well as a "sense of hopelessness" in many neighborhoods that has "fostered an environment where too many young people have little or no regard for their own lives or the lives of others."

An upsurge of murders when anyone can carry weapons without a license or background check and the state pre-empts any city from passing its own gun laws in response? Who would have thought?

 

[irishff1014]

Troubling rise of gun violence in St. Louis, Kansas City




An upsurge of murders when anyone can carry weapons without a license or background check and the state pre-empts any city from passing its own gun laws in response? Who would have thought?

I would wager that most of these shootings we done with someone that wasn't supposed to have a gun in the first place.

 

[Irish YJ]

Troubling rise of gun violence in St. Louis, Kansas City


An upsurge of murders when anyone can carry weapons without a license or background check and the state pre-empts any city from passing its own gun laws in response? Who would have thought?

Like stated below, I'd wager many if not most or all of these weapons were obtained illegally.

Also, St Louis has been in the top 20 (cities in the world) of homicides for a while. Highest large city in the US for a while as well. Troubling rise? It's been troubling for a long time.

Might be time to abandon the party that has been in power since 1949..... The level of corruption is pretty crazy too.

 

[drayer54]

Troubling rise of gun violence in St. Louis, Kansas City




An upsurge of murders when anyone can carry weapons without a license or background check and the state pre-empts any city from passing its own gun laws in response? Who would have thought?

This sarcasm and logic would be great if there weren't a million other factors involved here. Crime has more to do with policing than it does laws. And I think we all know what has happened with policing here.

 

[Legacy]

This sarcasm and logic would be great if there weren't a million other factors involved here. Crime has more to do with policing than it does laws. And I think we all know what has happened with policing here.

The state laws pre-empting any local gun control laws hamstring metropolitan policing enforcement.

I would wager that most of these shootings we done with someone that wasn't supposed to have a gun in the first place.

I agree that murderers shouldn't have the weapons they use. Universal background checks on all sales separate the law-abiding vs the criminals.

 

[NorthDakota]

The state laws pre-empting any local gun control laws hamstring metropolitan policing enforcement.



I agree that murderers shouldn't have the weapons they use. Universal background checks on all sales separate the law-abiding vs the criminals.

How do you plan on universally checking backgrounds chief?

 

[drayer54]

The state laws pre-empting any local gun control laws hamstring metropolitan policing enforcement.



I agree that murderers shouldn't have the weapons they use. Universal background checks on all sales separate the law-abiding vs the criminals.

Preemption is absolutely necessary to prevent patchwork gun laws that create a myriad of hoops for otherwise law-abiding citizens.

It also eliminates levels of government that can infringe on my basic liberties. I’d like preemption laws of all types.

 

[NorthDakota]

Preemption is absolutely necessary to prevent patchwork gun laws that create a myriad of hoops for otherwise law-abiding citizens.

It also eliminates levels of government that can infringe on my basic liberties. I’d like preemption laws of all types.

New York City passed some idiotic gun laws that are going to end up getting overturned and I'm going to LMAOOOOOO when it happens.

 

[Legacy]

Preemption is absolutely necessary to prevent patchwork gun laws that create a myriad of hoops for otherwise law-abiding citizens.

It also eliminates levels of government that can infringe on my basic liberties. I’d like preemption laws of all types.

If state laws preempt local laws, what do you think about counties in states who passed gun control laws declaring themselves "sanctuary"? Can you have it both ways?

 

[NorthDakota]

If state laws preempt local laws, what do you think about counties in states who passed gun control laws declaring themselves "sanctuary"? Can you have it both ways?

Sure.

Big difference between not enforcing laws and telling cities you can't pass dumb ones. That's what the libs tell me.

 

[drayer54]

New York City passed some idiotic gun laws that are going to end up getting overturned and I'm going to LMAOOOOOO when it happens.

New York knew they were wrong, that’s why they backtracked and some Dem Senators wrote a threatening brief to SCOTUS. New York was fine infringing upon their people up until SCOTUS took the case.

If state laws preempt local laws, what do you think about counties in states who passed gun control laws declaring themselves "sanctuary"? Can you have it both ways?

We shouldn’t need sanctuaries from Federal law. You can look at the Sheriffs in upstate NY or Eastern Washington that have given the finger to tight gun controls from the cities that control their county and see examples of people doing something similar to what sanctuary cities do.

I don’t support the concept of localities trying to override the government. The courts should weigh in and cause these matters to go one way or the other. I do firmly believe strict scrutiny should be applied in 1A,2A,4A,14A, and basic liberty questions for these matters.

 

[loomis41973]

..and again in Texas. 5 dead so far. 20+ injured.

 

[phork]

..and again in Texas. 5 dead so far. 20+ injured.

Thoughts and prayers to the victims and their families. (again)

 

[Legacy]

Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
Very sad. Again a disaffected white man 20-30 with antagonism towards police/government and packing who does not care about civilian deaths.

More guns will be purchased. Condolences from Trump and Gov Abbott. The President will offer thoughts on changes but say it's a mental health problem, cultural issues, MSM, social media, and that further gun laws will not help. Someone will visit the victims. Trump? McConnell will block legislation from the House and Senate Committees. Second Amendment rights. Gun control laws are socialism and Dems are socialists. Enforcement not background checks, red flag laws, etc. Thoughts and prayers. Anything I missed?

Local reporting:
Police: Shooter dead at Cinergy in Odessa; 21 people shot, 5 dead (Odessa American)

Odessa mass shooting leaves 5 dead, 21 injured (Midland Reporter-Telegram)

Trying to think of one of these which their narrative after Odessa was inaccurate.

The shooter was thirty-five, not 20-30. I didn't expect though that he would have called the FBI and local law enforcement about his intents - "multiple red flags". He had failed a background check, but got the gun from a private sale. Only Abbott visited Trump, who was occupied with Dorian while playing golf. We've all heard all these elements of their narratives before. I did forget to include video games as a major contributor to mass shootings.

 

[NorthDakota]

Very sad. Again a disaffected white man 20-30 with antagonism towards police/government and packing who does not care about civilian deaths.

More guns will be purchased. Condolences from Trump and Gov Abbott. The President will offer thoughts on changes but say it's a mental health problem, cultural issues, MSM, social media, and that further gun laws will not help. Someone will visit the victims. Trump? McConnell will block legislation from the House and Senate Committees. Second Amendment rights. Gun control laws are socialism and Dems are socialists. Enforcement not background checks, red flag laws, etc. Thoughts and prayers. Anything I missed?

Local reporting:
Police: Shooter dead at Cinergy in Odessa; 21 people shot, 5 dead (Odessa American)

Odessa mass shooting leaves 5 dead, 21 injured (Midland Reporter-Telegram)

You missed a big shooting in Mobile from Friday night and I'm genuinely curious why you didn't mention it.

 

[phork]

You missed a big shooting in Mobile from Friday night and I'm genuinely curious why you didn't mention it.

First I heard it. But thoughts and prayers!

 

[drayer54]

You missed a big shooting in Mobile from Friday night and I'm genuinely curious why you didn't mention it.

It’s more about narrative than news. But then again, I think you knew that.

 

[Irishize]

You missed a big shooting in Mobile from Friday night and I'm genuinely curious why you didn't mention it.

He heard nothing about this mass shooting b/c the perp wasn’t a white guy w/ an AR-15

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-teens-shot-high-school-football-game-alabama/story?id=65309106

 

[Irishize]

At least 25 people were shot, seven fatally, during the first half of Labor Day Weekend in Democrat-controlled Chicago.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-during-first-half-labor-day-weekend-chicago/

 

[Legacy]

Walmart plans to dramatically step back from ammunition sales after ‘horrific’ shootings (CNBC)

KEY POINTS
- Walmart is discontinuing sales of short-barrel rifle ammunition such as the .223 caliber and 5.56 caliber, discontinuing sales of handgun ammunition and discontinuing handgun sales entirely in Alaska.
- It’s also asking shoppers to no longer openly carry firearms in stores, in states where “open carry” is allowed, unless they are authorized law enforcement officers.
- CEO Doug McMillon announces the changes following two deadly shootings at Walmart stores over the summer.

 

[Irish#1]

Walmart plans to dramatically step back from ammunition sales after ‘horrific’ shootings (CNBC)

Legacy,
1. What impact do you think this will have on mass shootings?
2. Do you think tighter gun laws would have prevented the Odessa shootings?
3. Any reason you didn't comment on the shooting in chicago or Mobile?