2025 College Football Playoffs

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jprue24

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I'll simplify it.

Again the discussion is about why BYU should not be in at 11-1. I've been pushing back on "the conference is garbage" reasoning. I believe the eye test is the only consistent (lol) metric that effectively shows why they should be left out.

Everything on paper loves Utah almost as much as it loves ND and I think it's a huge stretch to say that beating Utah is inconsequential. If Utah won that game, they would be probably be ahead of ND, because they too have excellent game control.

ESPN Strength of Record rankings have BYU at #6, but we are going to use their schedule to knock them down? As ND fans?
 
Bane

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jprue24 said:
OOC is a single metric within SoS, like H2H or SoR. I don't understand why this is being used as such a definitive metric of a team's quality. It's especially odd to me that ND fans feel this way. Until this year, it has been the primary knock on ND and one that this message board has openly despised.

I agree that game control is a great metric to use, but from what I've seen, most do not understand how it's measured and ignore/discount it.
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I can only speak for myself but I don't hold it against a team that scheduled Clemson or FSU or even a team like Wisconsin a few years ago expecting a hard game only to end up with a team that is weighing down your SOS. That's altogether different to me than not scheduling any P4 teams (TT) or scheduling a known quantity bad P4 team (BYU).

Maybe I'm being overly harsh on the B12 but my impression of the B12 really is encapsulated by BYU: a good, but not great team with decent talent with a moderate schedule that could just as easily be 7-4 as 10-1. To me, that's the sort of archetypal B12 team.

Again, I can concede that maybe I'm discounting the conference too much, but I can say I would have zero hesitation with ND taking any B12 team's schedule and would feel completely confident that we would be at a minimum 10-1 with TT, BYU, Utah, etc.'s schedule. I would feel very comfortable having to play TT in the playoffs and would absolutely love to play BYU in the playoffs.
 
irishnd31

irishnd31

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jprue24 said:
Now that the HIV has been cured, herpes is the only you really have to dodge these days.
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Yeah, but that’s one hell of a bullet.
Beats the ghonnoherpesyphyilitis. I think that’s hitting for the cycle.
Someone please spell check that for me
 
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jprue24

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Bane said:
I can only speak for myself but I don't hold it against a team that scheduled Clemson or FSU or even a team like Wisconsin a few years ago expecting a hard game only to end up with a team that is weighing down your SOS. That's altogether different to me than not scheduling any P4 teams (TT) or scheduling a known quantity bad P4 team (BYU).

Maybe I'm being overly harsh on the B12 but my impression of the B12 really is encapsulated by BYU: a good, but not great team with decent talent with a moderate schedule that could just as easily be 7-4 as 10-1. To me, that's the sort of archetypal B12 team.

Again, I can concede that maybe I'm discounting the conference too much, but I can say I would have zero hesitation with ND taking any B12 team's schedule and would feel completely confident that we would be at a minimum 10-1 with TT, BYU, Utah, etc.'s schedule. I would feel very comfortable having to play TT in the playoffs and would absolutely love to play BYU in the playoffs.
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BYU announced scheduling Stanford in a series in 2013. Stanford wasn't shit Stanford, yet but BYU has already canceled 4 of the games and this year's game was moved up for 2031. Should ND be shit on for consistently scheduling the same team? Purdue when they are garbage? Scheduling MSU? Scheduling the service academies? Half of ND's schedule is against the clear poverty P4 conference and next year it looks like scheduling will work out great for ND.

I don't want to go too far into using transients, but a 1st place ACC team, which beat the consensus "best" ACC team, lost to two mid table B12 teams in separate months.
 
Bane

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jprue24 said:
BYU announced scheduling Stanford in a series in 2013. Stanford wasn't shit Stanford, yet but BYU has already canceled 4 of the games and this year's game was moved up for 2031. Should ND be shit on for consistently scheduling the same team? Purdue when they are garbage? Scheduling MSU? Scheduling the service academies? Half of ND's schedule is against the clear poverty P4 conference and next year it looks like scheduling will work out great for ND.

I don't want to go too far into using transients, but a 1st place ACC team, which beat the consensus "best" ACC team, lost to two mid table B12 teams in separate months.
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I'm sure you can harvest a lot of karma on r/cfb and get a lot of likes and retweets on Twitter with these arguments. Sorry to rattle the B12's mightiest defender.
 
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burmafrd1944

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The only way to rate a conference is to examine what they do outside of that conference

NOW a problem with that is what if you have two conferences that schedule each other

that is why analytics are very important to the Committee.

Its a complicated process no doubt about it

trying to weigh teams that do not play each other and have few opponents in common
 
irishnd31

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jprue24 said:
Shooot, the nice lady on the commercial says all I need is Valtrex
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The fat one dancing around after pointing uncontrollably at things that don’t exist? I’d find something stronger and more effective….🤣🤣🤣🤣
Don’t do as the fat dancing lady does…

And for the love of God, why does every commercial have kids skipping rope? It’s 2025. Someone tell me the last time you saw some inner city kids skipping rope and double dutching?
 
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burmafrd1944

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I remember back in the late 60's into the early 70's you had this:
Big Ten; or as many called it the Big Two (OSU, MICH) and little 8
The Pac 10 mostly had USC and UCLA but others occasionally did something
Southwest had Texas and Arkansas
Big 8 was Oklahoma and Nebraska
The SEC had Alabama and Auburn and actually probably had the most competitive history as Tennessee and Georgia were champions on occasion; Mississippi as well. Though Bear Bryant overall dominated
Notre Dame and Penn State were the Independents

I lived in the Midwest so the Big 10 and Big 8 were what I saw on TV most of the time. I noticed that while OSU and Michigan would dominate their conference quite often they got their clocks cleaned in the Rose Bowl
And there were not that many non conference big games. You pretty much only saw that in the bowls
and of course back then there were only the big 4 Rose, Cotton, Sugar and Orange and then the next tier like the Gator and Liberty bowls. Usually the Big 4 only had reps from the major conferences with Notre Dame and Penn State the only independents of note.

The Big 10 was three yards and a cloud of dust as Woody and Bo went at each other; and many times no matter which of them won the big game they got worked in the Rose Bowl because USC and UCLA had more speed

So in some respects not much has changed as you have teams that win their conference and they then get worked by non championship teams from other conferences
 
stlnd01

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burmafrd1944 said:
I remember back in the late 60's into the early 70's you had this:
Big Ten; or as many called it the Big Two (OSU, MICH) and little 8
The Pac 10 mostly had USC and UCLA but others occasionally did something
Southwest had Texas and Arkansas
Big 8 was Oklahoma and Nebraska
The SEC had Alabama and Auburn and actually probably had the most competitive history as Tennessee and Georgia were champions on occasion; Mississippi as well. Though Bear Bryant overall dominated
Notre Dame and Penn State were the Independents
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Hell, for most of the four-team CFP era, you had one team that dominated each conference:
Ohio State won the Big 10 five out of seven years.
Oklahoma won the Big 12 six straight times.
Clemson won the ACC six straight and seven out of eight
Bama won the SEC six out of eight times.
Only the Pac-12 had something approaching parity, and they barely ever made the playoffs and blew themselves to smithereens.

Point being, conferences are bullshit. Always have been, always will be. Independence is the way.
 
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jprue24

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Bane said:
I'm sure you can harvest a lot of karma on r/cfb and get a lot of likes and retweets on Twitter with these arguments. Sorry to rattle the B12's mightiest defender.
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I accept your apology!
 
T-Boone

T-Boone

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How long was Penn State independent?
(edit per A.I 1890 to 1992 so 100 plus years) interesting.
 
Irish#1

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burmafrd1944 said:
I remember back in the late 60's into the early 70's you had this:
Big Ten; or as many called it the Big Two (OSU, MICH) and little 8
The Pac 10 mostly had USC and UCLA but others occasionally did something
Southwest had Texas and Arkansas
Big 8 was Oklahoma and Nebraska
The SEC had Alabama and Auburn and actually probably had the most competitive history as Tennessee and Georgia were champions on occasion; Mississippi as well. Though Bear Bryant overall dominated
Notre Dame and Penn State were the Independents

I lived in the Midwest so the Big 10 and Big 8 were what I saw on TV most of the time. I noticed that while OSU and Michigan would dominate their conference quite often they got their clocks cleaned in the Rose Bowl
And there were not that many non conference big games. You pretty much only saw that in the bowls
and of course back then there were only the big 4 Rose, Cotton, Sugar and Orange and then the next tier like the Gator and Liberty bowls. Usually the Big 4 only had reps from the major conferences with Notre Dame and Penn State the only independents of note.

The Big 10 was three yards and a cloud of dust as Woody and Bo went at each other; and many times no matter which of them won the big game they got worked in the Rose Bowl because USC and UCLA had more speed

So in some respects not much has changed as you have teams that win their conference and they then get worked by non championship teams from other conferences
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Excuse my nitpicking but at the time you’re referencing, it was the Pac8. IMO we’d be better off going back to those conferences instead of trying to have Mega conferences.
 
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IrishinSyria

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jprue24 said:
I'll simplify it.

Again the discussion is about why BYU should not be in at 11-1. I've been pushing back on "the conference is garbage" reasoning. I believe the eye test is the only consistent (lol) metric that effectively shows why they should be left out.

Everything on paper loves Utah almost as much as it loves ND and I think it's a huge stretch to say that beating Utah is inconsequential. If Utah won that game, they would be probably be ahead of ND, because they too have excellent game control.

ESPN Strength of Record rankings have BYU at #6, but we are going to use their schedule to knock them down? As ND fans?
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I think the primary problem for BYU is that across the entire Big 12 there are so few big out of conference games that it really feels like their SOR is inflated by a bunch of mediocre teams in the conference with 7+ wins largely because they played the Portland and Kent States of the world.

Of course, it’s not ideal for us that the conference’s marquis OOC win was terrible WVU beating Pitt…
 
IrishinSyria

IrishinSyria

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jprue24 said:
Exactly.
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Don't pretend there's some sort of objective metric I'm missing. There's nowhere near a big enough overlapping sample size to objectively compare Big 12 teams to Big 10 teams or SEC teams and, yes, those conferences get the benefit of the doubt because of recent history.

Like it or not, this shouldn't be a surprise to anyone and Big 12 could have solved for this problem by booking potentially big time OOC matchups. It didn't, and BYU is either getting fucked as a result or is being accurately identified as a paper tiger that would get rolled by a legit contender.
 
HouseofPain

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Best proof is letting them in only to watch them get smashed 42-17. That tends to keep the racket down in following years.
 
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