2025-26 NFL Season

[dublinirish]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Rodgers still has quite a release.

 

[Bane]

Caleb is still ass. Still the same guy who got folded over by ND 3 years ago. At least 6 egregious misses to wide open players. Inaccurate, holding the ball too long, inability to read the field. He only excels on broken plays. That's all well and good but you're not gonna be able to live that way in the NFL. I've never been bullish on his NFL prospects and game 18 for him did nothing to make me think he's gonna be a long term starter.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Caleb is still ass. Still the same guy who got folded over by ND 3 years ago. At least 6 egregious misses to wide open players. Inaccurate, holding the ball too long, inability to read the field. He only excels on broken plays. That's all well and good but you're not gonna be able to live that way in the NFL. I've never been bullish on his NFL prospects and game 18 for him did nothing to make me think he's gonna be a long term starter.

He was leading rusher. Not great unless your name is Michael Vick.

Also not great were the four false start penalties in the first half. Revamped offensive line.

 

[Bane]

He was leading rusher. Not great unless your name is Michael Vick.

Also not great were the four false start penalties in the first half. Revamped offensive line.

Was he throwing incompletions because he was checked out, or did he check out and then start throwing incompletions?

I get being critical of him, but you're suggesting something beyond him not playing well. The low hanging tropes seem to fly when it comes to this guy. Lazy, arrogant, dumb, bad attitude. We've been hearing this since Vince Evans, Warren Moon and all of the rest.

I don't know if he's going to be any good or not, but the accusations against him when it comes to intangibles or lack thereof seem to stem from him painting his fingernails and his team having a bad season his final college season.

Cross posting here so as to not clog up the Chicago Bears thread since that's for fans of the team and I don't want to be a dick.

Williams is a guy who bought his own hype and hasn't grown as a player or a passer in any demonstrable way since he was 19. He has the same exact tendencies and shortcomings he had in college. He can't read the field from the pocket and deliver accurate throws on time and in rhythm with any consistency. He missed several easy throws because of his bad footwork, poor downfield passing, and hesitancy. Aikman called him out on the very first drive for not even noticing open receivers down the field and just checking down.

I have thought this since he played at USC and never once bought into the hype and the whole "consensus #1 generational player" bullshit was one of the strangest cases of groupthink I've ever seen. It was almost as if this narrative formed about halfway through his sophomore season and was simply fait accompli by the time he was draft eligible and no one was allowed to question the narrative.

He might end up being a good starter with more time but he is not a generational player and that label is so overused it is meaningless by now.

I'm not sure why this was made into some sort of meta commentary on race, everything I said before and said now are specific to the fact that Caleb Williams is ass. Notice I haven't made any sort of criticisms of Jayden Daniels who was drafted right after CW.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Cross posting here so as to not clog up the Chicago Bears thread since that's for fans of the team and I don't want to be a dick.

Williams is a guy who bought his own hype and hasn't grown as a player or a passer in any demonstrable way since he was 19. He has the same exact tendencies and shortcomings he had in college. He can't read the field from the pocket and deliver accurate throws on time and in rhythm with any consistency. He missed several easy throws because of his bad footwork, poor downfield passing, and hesitancy. Aikman called him out on the very first drive for not even noticing open receivers down the field and just checking down.

I have thought this since he played at USC and never once bought into the hype and the whole "consensus #1 generational player" bullshit was one of the strangest cases of groupthink I've ever seen. It was almost as if this narrative formed about halfway through his sophomore season and was simply fait accompli by the time he was draft eligible and no one was allowed to question the narrative.

He might end up being a good starter with more time but he is not a generational player and that label is so overused it is meaningless by now.

I'm not sure why this was made into some sort of meta commentary on race, everything I said before and said now are specific to the fact that Caleb Williams is ass. Notice I haven't made any sort of criticisms of Jayden Daniels who was drafted right after CW.

It would seem that a lot of people got it wrong. Ryan Poles in particular.

One thing I noticed Monday night was that Brian Flores kept it very simple in the first half. He just wanted to see what was what. Once he saw it, he started bringing it in the second half.

The football is the football, and the film won't lie. The narrative that's most irritating is all of the other stuff. If people don't like the guy, then fine.

 

[Bane]

To be clear I am a CW hater, I won't deny that. I despised him at USC. The Bears are a team that is in my Toxic Hatred group with Michigan football, UGA football, and the Mets & Phillies.

That being said, I'm not an infallible football analyst, I'm just a guy on the internet. Maybe Williams does improve and become a star but I've seen more of his games than I've ever wanted to and I've seen the same guy for 4 years now going back to his freshman season at Oklahoma.

He has those big wow moments, his throw on the run where he just launched a piss missile down the sideline Monday night was incredible. I don't take that away from him, but his problem is NFL quarterbacking is played primarily in the pocket and it seems like once he is off the scripted plays as the game wears on his play gets worse and worse.

As for Poles, that guy is a terrible GM and I do not understand how he got an extension. If the reports are true that he blew off every other QB prospect and locked in solely on Williams that is extreme executive negligence. That just fuels my belief that CW was the beneficiary of an Arch Manning level media campaign. You could still think CW was the best prospect and be reasonable, but he wasn't that good and that obviously the best that you don't at least interview the other top guys.

I don't understand the decisions made by Chicago whatsoever. Why is there constantly this mismatching of GM/HC/QB with these weird overlaps?

 

[SWirishfan]

To be clear I am a CW hater, I won't deny that. I despised him at USC. The Bears are a team that is in my Toxic Hatred group with Michigan football, UGA football, and the Mets & Phillies.

That being said, I'm not an infallible football analyst, I'm just a guy on the internet. Maybe Williams does improve and become a star but I've seen more of his games than I've ever wanted to and I've seen the same guy for 4 years now going back to his freshman season at Oklahoma.

He has those big wow moments, his throw on the run where he just launched a piss missile down the sideline Monday night was incredible. I don't take that away from him, but his problem is NFL quarterbacking is played primarily in the pocket and it seems like once he is off the scripted plays as the game wears on his play gets worse and worse.

As for Poles, that guy is a terrible GM and I do not understand how he got an extension. If the reports are true that he blew off every other QB prospect and locked in solely on Williams that is extreme executive negligence. That just fuels my belief that CW was the beneficiary of an Arch Manning level media campaign. You could still think CW was the best prospect and be reasonable, but he wasn't that good and that obviously the best that you don't at least interview the other top guys.

I don't understand the decisions made by Chicago whatsoever. Why is there constantly this mismatching of GM/HC/QB with these weird overlaps?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

To be clear I am a CW hater, I won't deny that. I despised him at USC. The Bears are a team that is in my Toxic Hatred group with Michigan football, UGA football, and the Mets & Phillies.

That being said, I'm not an infallible football analyst, I'm just a guy on the internet.

You might be the Salma Hayek of self awareness, I'll give you that.

 

[Bane]

You might be the Salma Hayek of self awareness, I'll give you that.

I’ll never deny bringing my presuppositions into a conversation, it’s how people work. I also don’t lack the ability to give due to athletes I hate. I hated Aaron Rodgers for many years but you’ll never catch me saying that he sucked. I haven’t and don’t see it with CW.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I’ll never deny bringing my presuppositions into a conversation, it’s how people work. I also don’t lack the ability to give due to athletes I hate. I hated Aaron Rodgers for many years but you’ll never catch me saying that he sucked. I haven’t and don’t see it with CW.

Could be Brian Flores and the Vikings D had something to do with it Monday, but you're right about missing the open receivers downfield. That was alarming.

 

[Bane]

 

[MKEagle]

The Bears are a team that is in my Toxic Hatred group

Hey now.... we may not like each other, but the NFC North should agree the hatred starts with the Packers

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I am glad the NFL is back. The Thursday Night product can be rough, but Commanders and Packers is nothing if not compelling.

 

[Bane]

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

There are a lot of loving parts with QB play. The private QB coach became a really big thing at the turn of the century. Then came the spread offense. The game changed very quickly at the HS and college levels. Teams are under pressure to get these guys on the field now as freshmen in college or as rookies in the NFL. A lot of that is money, a lot of that is fan bases that are hungry for championships. The external pressure is too great and too many of these guys get rushed. At some point, a program needs to take a stand and have the patience to keep a guy off the field if he truly is not ready. Easier said than done.

I think taking time to learn the technical and mental part of the game worked very well for guys like Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Chad Pennington to name a few. They sat and waited. We're not living in that era anymore, though.

Most of the rule changes in the last 30 years favor the offense. They're doing everything they can to give the masses what they want, and some of these guys are still bad. I still think it starts with balance and having as many competitive teams as possible. That ultimately probably means that as many excellent QBs as possible starting in the league helps that.

 

[Bane]

There are a lot of loving parts with QB play. The private QB coach became a really big thing at the turn of the century. Then came the spread offense. The game changed very quickly at the HS and college levels. Teams are under pressure to get these guys on the field now as freshmen in college or as rookies in the NFL. A lot of that is money, a lot of that is fan bases that are hungry for championships. The external pressure is too great and too many of these guys get rushed. At some point, a program needs to take a stand and have the patience to keep a guy off the field if he truly is not ready. Easier said than done.

I think taking time to learn the technical and mental part of the game worked very well for guys like Tony Romo, Aaron Rodgers, Chad Pennington to name a few. They sat and waited. We're not living in that era anymore, though.

Most of the rule changes in the last 30 years favor the offense. They're doing everything they can to give the masses what they want, and some of these guys are still bad. I still think it starts with balance and having as many competitive teams as possible. That ultimately probably means that as many excellent QBs as possible starting in the league helps that.

It feels like a bubble that will burst eventually. GMs and HCs aren't going to want to stake their jobs on guys like Anthony Richardson at #5 or whatever crazy number he went.

And for all of the changes to the game, QBing is still QBing and Brady was putting up better stats than basically the entire League in his age 40+ season. The best QBs playing today like Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, and Patrick Mahomes can all operate primarily from the pocket, diagnose the defense, and work their progressions. Lamar elevated his game when he became a more consistent pocket passer.

But you are right that the pipeline is broken. HS and CFB always had gimmicky offenses, but there were was also a good amount of "pro style" offenses and kids could be groomed in solid fundamentals in HS and then college. Now, since good to elite pocket passing is relatively rare and more "expensive" high schools and colleges have went all in on a more rushing based quarterback style. That works in HS and CFB where you can out athlete the defense, but that hits a roadblock when you have world class athletes playing every level of defense in the NFL and your QB is a 55M/yr investment.

I don't know how to fix this issue, but the quality of QB play is pretty mediocre compared to even 10-12 years ago. It really does feel like we used to watch gods play.

 

[Bane]

Expounding on that last point, not that long ago the NFL looked like
Tier 1- Brady, Peyton, and Rodgers
Tier 1b- Brees
Tier 2- Matt Ryan, Rivers, Eli, Big Ben
Tier 2b- Matthew Stafford, Russell Wilson
Tier 3- Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr

Everyone in Tier 2 and above is either a deadlock for the Hall, or has a very, very good case. That's 8 QBs, or 25% of the league.

The sort of production that is allowed to continue and get rewarded year over year is astounding. Trevor Lawrence got a second contract for pretty middling, uninspiring production and results, that wouldn't have happened 10 years ago. Tannehill is a pretty good comp for TL and he got run out of Miami and had to find second life in Tennessee.

Edit: Forgot about Russell Wilson.

 

[Bane]

Cincy gave up 17 points in the first half? Inexcusable, they should fire whoever their DC is...

 

[Huntr]

NFL overtime, punt twice, win.

wtf

 

[Bane]

Chiefs 0-2.

 

[GATTACA!]

JJ McCarthy stinks.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

JJ McCarthy stinks.

But if we took him over buchner....

 

[CoachB]

X is gonna take it from ya.

Miss you X.

Happy for you on your first career pick!

 

[Bane]

JJ McCarthy stinks.

Under fire all night and by the end of the game had 3 OL out. I don't really care, the kid is young and will have bad moments, but if there is blame to be laid it's moreso on KOC. He's extremely stubborn about not adjusting his offense and it's predicated on big down the field shots, but man sometimes you need to let a young guy get into a flow. The offense is always so discombobulated and inconsistent.

I also want to take time to tell Chris Collinsworth to go get fucked the way he's trying to craft a national narrative about keeping Darnold. That was just never going to happen and trying to dredge up 2-3 year old Kirk Cousins controversies is also asinine. Cousins was never worth the money and looked good in the regular seasons (sometimes) but folded in the big moments.

 

[Bane]

Just to add McCarthy was sacked maybe 6 or 7 times, often with just very little pass blocking to speak of. When he had time, he looked pretty good and promising enough for a kid making his second start. Frustrating game though overall.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

If I was a Vikings or Bears fan, and suddenly found myself having to root for JJ McCarthy or Caleb Williams, I'd probably just jump ship to the Packers or something...

 

[Bane]

JJM out 2-4 weeks. This is the Vikings with a washed QB now (Wentz will be playing), I’m ready for the heartbreaking loss on the NFCCG.

 

[Bane]

 

[Huntr]

Good God, the Lions just went on a 98 and half yard, 11 minute drive that ended in a td.

I'm not even a Lions fan, but that was absolutely masterful football.