2023 - State of the Recruiting Class

[Reaper97]

BK set the standard at 10 wins with classes ranked 7-12.
Going 8-4 with the roster ND has is what ultimately will hurt recruiting.
ND, regardless of how charming Freeman is, will recruit 8-10 ranked classes moving forward if ND goes 9-3 or 8-4 each year.

ND needed & 10-11 win season combined with Freeman’s charm to get the top 3 class everyone was expecting.

You can disagree with me, but as of right now, give me BK with three classes of 6, 7, 8 to have a better team (actual winning on the field) over Freeman with three classes of 3, 4, 5 at ND.

Winning is still the most important thing.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

BK set the standard at 10 wins with classes ranked 7-12.
Going 8-4 with the roster ND has is what ultimately will hurt recruiting.
ND, regardless of how charming Freeman is, will recruit 8-10 ranked classes moving forward if ND goes 9-3 or 8-4 each year.

ND needed & 10-11 win season combined with Freeman’s charm to get the top 3 class everyone was expecting.

You can disagree with me, but as of right now, give me BK with three classes of 6, 7, 8 to have a better team (actual winning on the field) over Freeman with three classes of 3, 4, 5 at ND.

Winning is still the most important thing.

Freeman has coached one year. Did you say the same thing after BKs first year and his recruiting class then? Would you rather have had Weis after BK's first year?

 

[NDpendent]

BK set the standard at 10 wins with classes ranked 7-12.
Going 8-4 with the roster ND has is what ultimately will hurt recruiting.
ND, regardless of how charming Freeman is, will recruit 8-10 ranked classes moving forward if ND goes 9-3 or 8-4 each year.

ND needed & 10-11 win season combined with Freeman’s charm to get the top 3 class everyone was expecting.

You can disagree with me, but as of right now, give me BK with three classes of 6, 7, 8 to have a better team (actual winning on the field) over Freeman with three classes of 3, 4, 5 at ND.

Winning is still the most important thing.

We were just a solid QB away from having a 10 plus win season. Our offense was terrible and so predictable because all we could do was run and throw to Mayer. All the opposing teams needed to do was stack the box. They didn't have to defend half the field.
Our QB room this year was Pyne, angeli and Ronny. Next year hopefully we will have A solid transfer, Buchner and Minchey.

 

[Dale]

 

[GoldenToTheGrave]

Turns out you can assemble what is currently the best recruiting class in a decade and a certain portion of the fan base is still going to bitch and complain.

 

[Bigamejames]

Oregon is offering recruits and parents. Basically Nike is getting 6 figure jobs for these parents to basically do nothing is what it sounds like.

If this is happening, then NCAA needs to return the Heisman back to Reggie Bush.

 

[Crazy Balki]

Turns out you can assemble what is currently the best recruiting class in a decade and a certain portion of the fan base is still going to bitch and complain.

Because the ultimately goal is not exceeding Kelly's classes.

The goal is landing recruits that allow us to compete with Alabama, Georgia and Ohio State on a regular basis. Those teams are stacking 5-stars on 5-stars every year, and we're lucky if we get 1 every 3 years on average.

 

[indianamouse]

Because the ultimately goal is not exceeding Kelly's classes.

The goal is landing recruits that allow us to compete with Alabama, Georgia and Ohio State on a regular basis. Those teams are stacking 5-stars on 5-stars every year, and we're lucky if we get 1 every 3 years on average.

There are teams that compete with those teams every year without multiple 5 stars. Hell, Michigan just curb stomped OSU 2 years in a row without those elite recruits.

 

[Crazy Balki]

There are teams that compete with those teams every year without multiple 5 stars. Hell, Michigan just curb stomped OSU 2 years in a row without those elite recruits.

Key words here is "regular basis".

Michigan got 2 wins on Ohio State. That's the exception. Not the rule. And that came after losing 8 straight to them. Other than that, nobody has really competed with Ohio State.

Who is regularly competing with Alabama and Georgia? Sure, Tennessee and LSU got Alabama this year. But this is easily the worst Alabama team since Saban's first year, and even then, LSU has 2 whole wins on Bama over the past 11 seasons, and that was the first time since '06 that Tennessee managed to beat Bama. Ole Miss got 2 wins in '14 and '15, but that's sandwiched between 7-game losing streaks to the Tide. Auburn is 3-9 since 2011 against Bama, and 2 of those wins were while Bama had major QB controversies (Hurts struggling in '17 and Tua getting hurt in '19).

Who is consistently competing with Georgia? Florida got them in '20, but outside of that, Kirby has dominated them. They've only lost 5 regular season games in the past 6 seasons. The only team to have competed consistently with Kirby since his 2nd season has been his old boss in Tuscaloosa.

I wouldn't consider any of those teams competing regularly with them. Perhaps if Michigan continues their run, but I feel Ohio State has cultural issues with toughness. Issues that Georgia and until recently, Alabama, don't have.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Key words here is "regular basis".

Michigan got 2 wins on Ohio State. That's the exception. Not the rule. And that came after losing 8 straight to them. Other than that, nobody has really competed with Ohio State.

Who is regularly competing with Alabama and Georgia? Sure, Tennessee and LSU got Alabama this year. But this is easily the worst Alabama team since Saban's first year, and even then, LSU has 2 whole wins on Bama over the past 11 seasons, and that was the first time since '06 that Tennessee managed to beat Bama. Ole Miss got 2 wins in '14 and '15, but that's sandwiched between 7-game losing streaks to the Tide. Auburn is 3-9 since 2011 against Bama, and 2 of those wins were while Bama had major QB controversies (Hurts struggling in '17 and Tua getting hurt in '19).

Who is consistently competing with Georgia? Florida got them in '20, but outside of that, Kirby has dominated them. They've only lost 5 regular season games in the past 6 seasons. The only team to have competed consistently with Kirby since his 2nd season has been his old boss in Tuscaloosa.

I wouldn't consider any of those teams competing regularly with them. Perhaps if Michigan continues their run, but I feel Ohio State has cultural issues with toughness. Issues that Georgia and until recently, Alabama, don't have.

I think the bigger point was that NDs recruiting under Freeman the last two years have been an upgrade of consistency, unlike what BK had failed to do. BK averaged around 11/12th best class in the country... even if we are not able to truly compete with Bama or Georgia on the recruiting trail, if Freeman's classes end up or just are outside the Top 5, it will show on the field.

 

[indianamouse]

Key words here is "regular basis".

Michigan got 2 wins on Ohio State. That's the exception. Not the rule. And that came after losing 8 straight to them. Other than that, nobody has really competed with Ohio State.

Who is regularly competing with Alabama and Georgia? Sure, Tennessee and LSU got Alabama this year. But this is easily the worst Alabama team since Saban's first year, and even then, LSU has 2 whole wins on Bama over the past 11 seasons, and that was the first time since '06 that Tennessee managed to beat Bama. Ole Miss got 2 wins in '14 and '15, but that's sandwiched between 7-game losing streaks to the Tide. Auburn is 3-9 since 2011 against Bama, and 2 of those wins were while Bama had major QB controversies (Hurts struggling in '17 and Tua getting hurt in '19).

Who is consistently competing with Georgia? Florida got them in '20, but outside of that, Kirby has dominated them. They've only lost 5 regular season games in the past 6 seasons. The only team to have competed consistently with Kirby since his 2nd season has been his old boss in Tuscaloosa.

I wouldn't consider any of those teams competing regularly with them. Perhaps if Michigan continues their run, but I feel Ohio State has cultural issues with toughness. Issues that Georgia and until recently, Alabama, don't have.

You just listed a whole bunch of losses for those “elite” teams, then made excuses for them. Notre Dame doesn’t win like they should and I don’t hear the same excuses.

 

[Domina Nostra]

I think the bigger point was that NDs recruiting under Freeman the last two years have been an upgrade of consistency, unlike what BK had failed to do. BK averaged around 11/12th best class in the country... even if we are not able to truly compete with Bama or Georgia on the recruiting trail, if Freeman's classes end up or just are outside the Top 5, it will show on the field.

I don't get this. Freeman hasn't signed two classes. This one is far from over. And the last one was recruited mostly by Kelly.

 

[Dale]

And the last one was recruited mostly by Kelly.

Are you referring to the time spent before signing day as the title of HC or actual work?

 

[tussin]

I don't get this. Freeman hasn't signed two classes. This one is far from over. And the last one was recruited mostly by Kelly.

What do you mean this one is far from over? What targets are still out there?

 

[MacIrish75]

What do you mean this one is far from over? What targets are still out there?

Nah he meant that negatively in terms of recruits we may not sign.

 

[CanadalovesND]

I don't get this. Freeman hasn't signed two classes. This one is far from over. And the last one was recruited mostly by Kelly.

The defensive class, which was the highlight of it, is all Freeman. Even with the loss of Bowen, ND has hit on all positions with the defensive classes in 2022 & 2023. And the current offensive class is almost a near gem, it's only missing the elite QB.

 

[Dale]

The thing with Kelly in terms of credit he deserves or not in recruiting, in terms of contribution to our recruiting classes overall provided a ceiling around 8th and floor around 15th. The fluctuation between ceiling and floor was usually entirely dependent on the coordinators.

I think the both will be higher under Freeman (and Bowden) and actually probably a tighter range as well since honestly anyone could be DC and still produce results on the trail with Freeman here. Offensive recruiting also will be/is held to a higher expectation then as a result.

 

[Guyjin37]

Can’t let what may transpire with Bowen cloud what is a fantastic class. And the difference between a top 2 class and what we end up with is just due to this NIL Wild West. It’s an absolute miracle that Freeman did what he has in this climate, and if he had the bags like the other top recruiting teams have then we’d be right up there.

So I think the success of future classes really depends on how much more ND is willing to adapt. Marcus Freeman can do just fine. Right now the administration has to get on top of the game. Up to now, every move they’ve made has been trumped by those big bag schools.

Assuming we have Freeman for the foreseeable future, it’s up to the administration whether we stay 5-10 in recruiting or we go for the top.

Because make no mistake, all things being equal (including money), this is ND, the blue blood of blue bloods. We’re going to win a whole lot of elite recruits if we can play on a level field.

 

[stlnd01]

Can’t let what may transpire with Bowen cloud what is a fantastic class. And the difference between a top 2 class and what we end up with is just due to this NIL Wild West. It’s an absolute miracle that Freeman did what he has in this climate, and if he had the bags like the other top recruiting teams have then we’d be right up there.

So I think the success of future classes really depends on how much more ND is willing to adapt. Marcus Freeman can do just fine. Right now the administration has to get on top of the game. Up to now, every move they’ve made has been trumped by those big bag schools.

Assuming we have Freeman for the foreseeable future, it’s up to the administration whether we stay 5-10 in recruiting or we go for the top.

Because make no mistake, all things being equal (including money), this is ND, the blue blood of blue bloods. We’re going to win a whole lot of elite recruits if we can play on a level field.

This is the thing right here. Can/will we find our way to competing on the NIL front for recruits. We don't have to hook up kids parents with jobs like Oregon is supposedly doing. We don't have to write enormous checks like A&M. But can we offer kids something up front to make it a little easier for them to justify choosing Notre Dame? If we can't, this may be the ceiling.

 

[BoredIrish]

This is Notre Dame.

There are no conference championship consolation prizes here. Its championship or bust.

Until ND wins the championship, I have no problem with anyone criticizing any aspect of the operation.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I know several five stars are still listed as uncommitted, but right now it seems like they are far more evenly distributed than ever before. I think a few teams like Bama, Ohio State and UGA each have two. Then a handful have one. This obviously changes by February but when you look at recent years previously there was some stacking going on. NIL might be spreading these cats out a bit more already.

The gap that I am more mindful of his four star to three star. Keep the classes four star heavy and fill the gaps with the threes where you need to. If the balance tips to three star away from four, that's a concern.

Above all else, QB 1 and WR need to be elite. Bama, Ohio State and UGA (along with wherever Lincoln Riley is) have led the pack there.

 

[dublinirish]

any 5 star left uncommitted is fishing for NIL money and trying to generate bidding wars

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

any 5 star left uncommitted is fishing for NIL money and trying to generate bidding wars

Wouldn't blame them if that's the case.

Traditionally, don't a lot of five star players typically make their decisions in December/January/February prior to NIL? Many of them play deep into the playoffs and in some states championships are decided into mid December. Quite often the five star players are with state championship caliber teams, aren't they?

I question whether there is really anything different happening in the case of five star players being uncommitted in mid December, even with NIL. Even with the early signing day, a lot of the highly ranked heavily publicized players would have announcements live on ESPN U in February.

 

[ACamp1900]

So I let it be known I left following recruiting daily a number of years back bc the drama/expectation/disappointment etc,… but is my understanding here fair enough?? This class’ jewels were going to be Keeley, Edwards, Bowen and Moore at one time right?? So,… what now? Is this class now really that much better than a good BK or CW class? I’m honestly asking out of partial ignorance so any solid feedback would be greatly appreciated

 

[Free Manera]

So I let it be known I left following recruiting daily a number of years back bc the drama/expectation/disappointment etc,… but is my understanding here fair enough?? This class’ jewels were going to be Keeley, Edwards, Bowen and Moore at one time right?? So,… what now? Is this class now really that much better than a good BO class? I’m honestly asking out of partial ignorance so any solid feedback would be greatly appreciated

Not Edwards so much, he was a luxury. But yeah Keeley and Bowen are the kinds of players ND needs to hit on every year to compete for real. And they were the two best players in the class.

So it’s not good. Still a better class than Kelly ever put together but also still not to the level it needs to be.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

So, I am on here most days, but don't follow it closely, no subscriptions. Here it goes:

Keeley, Moore, and Bowen were supposed to be a part of the class. All high ranked, game changers. Moore apparently silently committed, silently (ie, didn't tell anybody) he decommitted, went to Oregon. Now looking at UCLA. Keeley publically decommitted after some family members advised chasing the up front bag. Now Bowen, apparently, told ND thanks but no thanks last night.

I wouldn't say Edwards was a crown jewel, I'd take Love over him.

 

[benneboy]

So I let it be known I left following recruiting daily a number of years back bc the drama/expectation/disappointment etc,… but is my understanding here fair enough?? This class’ jewels were going to be Keeley, Edwards, Bowen and Moore at one time right?? So,… what now? Is this class now really that much better than a good BK or CW class? I’m honestly asking out of partial ignorance so any solid feedback would be greatly appreciated

I agree. Those would be my top 4. Debilitating. Moore probably less so because they found a replacement in Minchey who has a reasonable chance at matching Moores production. The other 3 losses will 100% cost us some # of games in the future. No real way around that at this point.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

So I let it be known I left following recruiting daily a number of years back bc the drama/expectation/disappointment etc,… but is my understanding here fair enough?? This class’ jewels were going to be Keeley, Edwards, Bowen and Moore at one time right?? So,… what now? Is this class now really that much better than a good BK or CW class? I’m honestly asking out of partial ignorance so any solid feedback would be greatly appreciated

ND has 21 four-star recruits to Michigan's six. That's all you need to know. Fuck Michigan.

 

[ThePiombino]

Edwards hurts, but he was a luxury. Losing potential day-1 true frosh starters tho in Keeley, Bowen, and Moore? That's the difference between ND over the past several years and the next level. So really just more of the same. It's not Freeman's fault (or even Rees's), just bad timing with "NIL". I do think the class is more complete, overall a better distribution of talent across all position groups, but the reality is as we will never be among the upper echelon so long as we keep letting other schools take our lunch.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[lcaps20]

Edwards hurts, but he was a luxury. Losing potential day-1 true frosh starters tho in Keeley, Bowen, and Moore? That's the difference between ND over the past several years and the next level. So really just more of the same. It's not Freeman's fault (or even Reese's), just bad timing with "NIL". I do think the class is more complete, overall a better distribution of talent across all position groups, but the reality is as we will never be among the upper echelon so long as we keep letting other schools take our lunch.

Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

I basically agree with all of this. The biggest thing for ND moving forward is to get the Keeley, Bowen, Moore's of the world until they figure out a more aggressive approach to transfer portal. If neither of those things happen...welp