2012

[NDPhilly]

Our QB lineup could be deadlier than the Philly's bullpen in 2012

I hope your wrong our Bullpen blows. I think you meen the combination Halladay, Leee, Oswalt, and Hamels. I need a new pair of pants thinking about that Rotation.

 

[NDPhilly]

He's got 88 speed on NCAA.

One of the reasons I mentioned it lol. I start him in that game because of his speed.

 

[GreatGolson]

I hope your wrong our Bullpen blows. I think you meen the combination Halladay, Leee, Oswalt, and Hamels. I need a new pair of pants thinking about that Rotation.

Yes that is what i mean. Sorry i only use proper baseball lingo when talking about my own team. (who will be making a WS appearance/win(?), at least we better with all the money we spent)

 

[irish1958]

Alright. Alright. I'll play

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
remember the sixth commandment;
Oh, I am sorry, you mean football!

 

[IrishInColumbus]

One of the reasons I mentioned it lol. I start him in that game because of his speed.

Same here, his accuracy is even with Crist (not a shocker Crist's accuracy is his biggest weakness) and his power is an 87 to Crist's 92. Just a better player when you take into account his 88 to 68 speed advantage.

I'm undefeated with Hendrix online in that game, hopefully it'll go that way on the field.

 

[tadman95]

Originally Posted by Irishtrain

I'm looking for a in your face lets get it done guy. Meaning a guy who isnt elected captain once a week but the teams says THAT is our leader and HE is our captain

That's what I'm talking about!

 

[IrishFBfanatic]

Why are we counting Dayne out already? I for one believe that he will be the starter in 2012, hands down (unless injury holds him out). We can sit here and judge him on one year of play, but remember how people judged Jimmy on his first year...7 TD passes, 6 INTs...he threw td's in only 3 of the 10 games he competed in. Dayne, in his first year at QB threw for 15 TDs and 7 INTs in the 8 games he competed in. Yes, the players were different around these guys. Yes, Jimmy was just a freshman. But this does help demonstrate how first year numbers can look for a kid. He made some bad decisions in his first year of real action...it happens. I just don't see him digressing any. Even in 2008 Jimmy threw 20 Tds and 17 INTs, only to finish the year in Hawaii with 5 Tds and 0 INTs...i think this just helps show that in the first year of someones career you cannot 100% judge how they will be in the future. Just like Jimmy was a freshman and new to college ball and the system in 2007, Dayne was learning a brand new playbook and getting his introduction into college FB at full time QB for Notre Dame...i still see an amazingly bright future for the kid, and in 2012 he will be the starter.

Yes, Hendrix and Golson will be used in some mop up duty, and i'm sure there will be some packages just for Golson...but look for Dayne to remain the starter.

Just my thoughts, though...

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Why are we counting Dayne out already? I for one believe that he will be the starter in 2012, hands down (unless injury holds him out). We can sit here and judge him on one year of play, but remember how people judged Jimmy on his first year...7 TD passes, 6 INTs...he threw td's in only 3 of the 10 games he competed in. Dayne, in his first year at QB threw for 15 TDs and 7 INTs in the 8 games he competed in. Yes, the players were different around these guys. Yes, Jimmy was just a freshman. But this does help demonstrate how first year numbers can look for a kid. He made some bad decisions in his first year of real action...it happens. I just don't see him digressing any. Even in 2008 Jimmy threw 20 Tds and 17 INTs, only to finish the year in Hawaii with 5 Tds and 0 INTs...i think this just helps show that in the first year of someones career you cannot 100% judge how they will be in the future. Just like Jimmy was a freshman and new to college ball and the system in 2007, Dayne was learning a brand new playbook and getting his introduction into college FB at full time QB for Notre Dame...i still see an amazingly bright future for the kid, and in 2012 he will be the starter.

Yes, Hendrix and Golson will be used in some mop up duty, and i'm sure there will be some packages just for Golson...but look for Dayne to remain the starter.

Just my thoughts, though...

While I agree that he does have a ton of potential. Here are my reasons for feeling that he's done

1. BK need's the QB to be an option to run the ball for his offense to be 100% effective. Dayne's 2 bum legs may prevent that. If he is a stiff behind center, he won't be in Kellys favor.

2. If he can practice int he spring, he's got a chance. But, from what we know at this point, he will not beable to practice during the spring workouts. Those 15 practices will hurt him, and his progression learning the concepts of the offense, and overall getting comfortable. Not only that, his competition will have roughly 30-35 more practices then him going into the spring. If Dayne can't practice in the spring, his competition will have 45-50 more practices then Dayne. He is going to be WAY WAY behind those guys in development, and understanding.

3.This is not the 2010 offseason where Dayne is the only option. Rees, Hendrix, and Massa have been with the team for a year growing with the program, and growing physically.

4. BK will play whoever gives the team the best shot at winning right away. A 1-3 start must not happen. Dayne may or may not be the most physically gifted, but that does not automatically make him the QB that gives the best shot to win, especially missing 9-10 months of football and learning. Hendrix has the skill set that may be as good, or better then Dayne's. And he will no doubt be more familiar then Dayne with the system.

Rees could be 4-0 as a starter knocking out Utah, SC, and Miami. What if he grows physically? His composure, and spread football knowledge are better then Dayne's.

Golson, the longer I think about it, the more I believe he sits this year.

5. BK didn't recruit Dayne. I don't know if this matters to BK or not, but some coaches do like using their guys.

So who's better? QB X- 8.5 games played. 2 hurt/rebuilt knees. No practice time for 9-10 months leading up to the season, and no reps learning the offense. Looked unsettled in the pocket, nervous. Recruited by former coach.

QB Z- 0 games played. Great physical skill set. Can both throw and run. Recruited by current coach. Been in the system practicing. Understands the playbook.

QB Y- 4 games played. (Beat Utah, SC, ?Miami?) Limited physical skill set. Under stands the playbook. Extremely poised and confident behind center.

Dayne could start, but he's got a lot of obstacles to climb. If he is not back for spring, I wouldn't bet on him starting against USF.

 

[NDPhilly]

While I agree that he does have a ton of potential. Here are my reasons for feeling that he's done

1. BK need's the QB to be an option to run the ball for his offense to be 100% effective. Dayne's 2 bum legs may prevent that. If he is a stiff behind center, he won't be in Kellys favor.

2. If he can practice int he spring, he's got a chance. But, from what we know at this point, he will not beable to practice during the spring workouts. Those 15 practices will hurt him, and his progression learning the concepts of the offense, and overall getting comfortable. Not only that, his competition will have roughly 30-35 more practices then him going into the spring. If Dayne can't practice in the spring, his competition will have 45-50 more practices then Dayne. He is going to be WAY WAY behind those guys in development, and understanding.

3.This is not the 2010 offseason where Dayne is the only option. Rees, Hendrix, and Massa have been with the team for a year growing with the program, and growing physically.

4. BK will play whoever gives the team the best shot at winning right away. A 1-3 start must not happen. Dayne may or may not be the most physically gifted, but that does not automatically make him the QB that gives the best shot to win, especially missing 9-10 months of football and learning. Hendrix has the skill set that may be as good, or better then Dayne's. And he will no doubt be more familiar then Dayne with the system.

Rees could be 4-0 as a starter knocking out Utah, SC, and Miami. What if he grows physically? His composure, and spread football knowledge are better then Dayne's.

Golson, the longer I think about it, the more I believe he sits this year.

5. BK didn't recruit Dayne. I don't know if this matters to BK or not, but some coaches do like using their guys.

So who's better? QB X- 8.5 games played. 2 hurt/rebuilt knees. No practice time for 9-10 months leading up to the season, and no reps learning the offense. Looked unsettled in the pocket, nervous. Recruited by former coach.

QB Z- 0 games played. Great physical skill set. Can both throw and run. Recruited by current coach. Been in the system practicing. Understands the playbook.

QB Y- 4 games played. (Beat Utah, SC, ?Miami?) Limited physical skill set. Under stands the playbook. Extremely poised and confident behind center.

Dayne could start, but he's got a lot of obstacles to climb. If he is not back for spring, I wouldn't bet on him starting against USF.

I like Z

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I like Z

I dont know who to like lol. Rees has got to grow up a lot, which he may.

Where you from in Philly? I live right over the bridge in jersey. Nice pickup for the phillies huh?

 

[lookingdeadred]

Another POV

Another POV

1. If what you say is true, Rees has little chance of starting as he is not a run option. I suspect Crist will be more of a run option than Rees even after his injuries.

2. I agree missing spring practice would be a big disadvantage, but it is not as if he does not know the offense. He also has extensive game experience, unlike Hendrix or Massa.

3. I hope this is true. Rees certainly had/has an opportunity to grow. As for Hendrix and Massa, it is hard to know what progress they have made this year.

4. I have no doubt BK will play the QB who gives the team the best chance to win right away. Crist and Rees have real time experience which gives them a big edge over the other two returnees. As for Golston, I see zero chance he wins the starting job. I am sure BK will have a package of plays for him ready to roll if they decide he plays in 2011. I suspect (and hope) he sits out 2011.

5. I am pretty certain this is a non-factor. He will let them fight it out and may the best QB win.

Who starts? I still think Crist, if healthy, is the most talented and therefore most likely to win the job. Rees looks like a solid QB but little more. I have not seen Hendrix or Massa, so I withhold judgment on them.

While I agree that he does have a ton of potential. Here are my reasons for feeling that he's done

1. BK need's the QB to be an option to run the ball for his offense to be 100% effective. Dayne's 2 bum legs may prevent that. If he is a stiff behind center, he won't be in Kellys favor.

2. If he can practice int he spring, he's got a chance. But, from what we know at this point, he will not beable to practice during the spring workouts. Those 15 practices will hurt him, and his progression learning the concepts of the offense, and overall getting comfortable. Not only that, his competition will have roughly 30-35 more practices then him going into the spring. If Dayne can't practice in the spring, his competition will have 45-50 more practices then Dayne. He is going to be WAY WAY behind those guys in development, and understanding.

3.This is not the 2010 offseason where Dayne is the only option. Rees, Hendrix, and Massa have been with the team for a year growing with the program, and growing physically.

4. BK will play whoever gives the team the best shot at winning right away. A 1-3 start must not happen. Dayne may or may not be the most physically gifted, but that does not automatically make him the QB that gives the best shot to win, especially missing 9-10 months of football and learning. Hendrix has the skill set that may be as good, or better then Dayne's. And he will no doubt be more familiar then Dayne with the system.

Rees could be 4-0 as a starter knocking out Utah, SC, and Miami. What if he grows physically? His composure, and spread football knowledge are better then Dayne's.

Golson, the longer I think about it, the more I believe he sits this year.

5. BK didn't recruit Dayne. I don't know if this matters to BK or not, but some coaches do like using their guys.

So who's better? QB X- 8.5 games played. 2 hurt/rebuilt knees. No practice time for 9-10 months leading up to the season, and no reps learning the offense. Looked unsettled in the pocket, nervous. Recruited by former coach.

QB Z- 0 games played. Great physical skill set. Can both throw and run. Recruited by current coach. Been in the system practicing. Understands the playbook.

QB Y- 4 games played. (Beat Utah, SC, ?Miami?) Limited physical skill set. Under stands the playbook. Extremely poised and confident behind center.

Dayne could start, but he's got a lot of obstacles to climb. If he is not back for spring, I wouldn't bet on him starting against USF.

 

[IrishandColts]

TE: Koyack

 

[NDPhilly]

I dont know who to like lol. Rees has got to grow up a lot, which he may.

Where you from in Philly? I live right over the bridge in jersey. Nice pickup for the phillies huh?

actually in Glen Mills its west of Philly on border of Delaware and Chester counties.

If the Phillies hit like they did when they win the World Series in 2008 this coulb be one of the best teams ever.

 

[irishtrain]

2012-----Schedule,schedule,schedule. You have to find a way to get thru Mich/MSU with 2 wins then let the rest take care of itself. Both those games were winable this year and it made the difference between a great year and a building year. Plus you have to deal with the little 12 and their refs and no way of winning without just pounding their @$$##. This mini series will always be tough and they dont want Notre Dame to get a leg up on a successfull season. I dont like the schedule playing these big (little) 12 teams back to back to back. The rest is tough but fair, this deal with the little 12 is just stupid and a pain in the @#$. Like I said the only way to get thru it is to dominate them past the refs and its just plain hard to do. Notre Dame will have a good team with fine players but playing this mini big ten schedule will always prove tough. Any SEC team would have a tough go at starting the season this way. I dont like it and if they want these teams played spread it out or tell them goodbye. Yes I know contracts have been signed.

 

[tankjeep]

aren't we talking about 2012, not 2011? by 2012 i see golson or hendrix as our main qb's, whether bk rotates them or whatever.

as for 2011, i think crist will have too much catching up to do. i'm not sure why so many are hyped about crist. the last few games before he got hurt, he looked shaky at best and couldn't sustain a drive. i believe he started the season off hot, but then fizzled out. i don't know if it was a loss of confidence or what, but he didn't look comfortable.

and when rees stepped back into the starting spot, the offense looked much better. granted he doesn't have the arm of crist, but he did a much better job of managing the offense than crist did.

to me (and i'm sure i'll get hammered for saying this), crist is overrated. i realize that it's his first season under a new system, but the hot start only to fizzle out has me thinking that he's not the qb i was hoping he'd be. i like crist & i think he's a good leader with great character, but i just don't think he's going to pan out and be the qb everybody expected. i hope i'm wrong and eat crow someday.

 

[JughedJones]

Can't we just boil it down real simple?

2011: QB battle that leaves us 9-3 with a big bowl against a Florida type team that out athletes us by a pretty big margin.

2012: Undefeated, our QB situation is settled and we have a real chance against any comers. Not saying we win the NC, but we're there.

 

[ndcoltsfan2010]

Can't we just boil it down real simple?

2011: QB battle that leaves us 9-3 with a big bowl against a Florida type team that out athletes us by a pretty big margin.

2012: Undefeated, our QB situation is settled and we have a real chance against any comers. Not saying we win the NC, but we're there.

That sounds about right to me. I think we still have a few wrinkles to iron out next year, but I am very optimistic about 2012. I think that is the year everything comes together.

 

[devolg]

Crist is a pro style QB who will never fit in BK's offense.

 

[irish1958]

Crist is a pro style QB who will never fit in BK's offense.

I agree; look at the NC game for the past ten years (or longer). The winning team was mostly dominated by a dynamic, running QB, not a pro-style QB.
College football is different from the pros (duh), and you need a different offense.
Averaging 4 yards a carry is good pro football, lousy college football and a way to have a sure looser in high school.
In the spread offense, the QB needs to pick up three or four first downs a game by scrambling, evading crashing linemen and blitzers and tucking it in instead of punting.
When the Texas QB went out against Ala, the game was over; their second string QB was (is) a prostyle QB and Texas can't win with him, except against Rice, Potato State Teachers College Prep School and the second string team from the Little Sisters of the Poor.

 

[JughedJones]

Crist is a pro style QB who will never fit in BK's offense.

That's why my easy to digest 2 year prognostication was so perfect.

 

[mick2]

Crist is a pro style QB who will never fit in BK's offense.

I agree; look at the NC game for the past ten years (or longer). The winning team was mostly dominated by a dynamic, running QB, not a pro-style QB.
College football is different from the pros (duh), and you need a different offense.
Averaging 4 yards a carry is good pro football, lousy college football and a way to have a sure looser in high school.
In the spread offense, the QB needs to pick up three or four first downs a game by scrambling, evading crashing linemen and blitzers and tucking it in instead of punting.
When the Texas QB went out against Ala, the game was over; their second string QB was (is) a prostyle QB and Texas can't win with him, except against Rice, Potato State Teachers College Prep School and the second string team from the Little Sisters of the Poor.

uhhh two words. Tony Pike

 

[lookingdeadred]

Glad I read ahead

Glad I read ahead

I was about to post the very same thing.

uhhh two words. Tony Pike

 

[devolg]

I don't see the comparison. Pike was a competitor. Crist is a stiff in the pocket

 

[lookingdeadred]

You miss the point

You miss the point

It has been said BK requires a mobile QB who can keep drives alive with his feet. But that conveniently forgets who is QB was just prior to coming to ND, Tony Pike, who has never been accused of being mobile. Just comparing mobility, Crist is almost fleet-footed compared to Pike.

I don't see the comparison. Pike was a competitor. Crist is a stiff in the pocket

 

[devolg]

I get what you're saying but I see Pike as maybe being the exception. That kid had heart. I can't see Crist playing with a broken arm, let alone throwing for 2 TD's with it? I just don't see him being that kind of competitor. Pike had an ability to adapt to the situation.

 

[mick2]

I get what you're saying but I see Pike as maybe being the exception. That kid had heart. I can't see Crist playing with a broken arm, let alone throwing for 2 TD's with it? I just don't see him being that kind of competitor. Pike had an ability to adapt to the situation.

come on brahhh, how can you say this.

i think he has caught some bad luck with injuries, and everyone is basically writing him off.

yeah i am drooling thinking about what an athlete like golson can be in this offense or even hendrix. but i gotta think realistically here. Dayne got a new offense dumped in his lap and was learning on the fly and actually playing pretty well.

boneheaded mistakes come from the most seasoned qb let alone a first year starter.

he spent his freshman and soph years learning the weis offense inside and out. kelly comes in and changes everything and he's not allowed an inch of slack?

when he gets healthy he's our best shot at winning. that is the reason he was the starter to begin with. rees has played well in a very dumbed down portion of the offense, and the defense suddenly rose from the dead. lets give crist a little more credit, shall we?

also go look at what happened to mauk before he transferred to cincy, catastrophic injuries to his throwing arm, wake wouldnt let him compete after the reconstructive surgery, kelly brought him in a proceeded to win 10 games while mauk threw for nearly 5000 yds

 

[devolg]

I mean no disrespect & I'm not trying to bash the guy. He's a good kid. I just don't think he has "it"

 

[tadman95]

I don't care who starts/plays. With that said, Crist was so inconsistent. Yea, part of that is probably the new offense, but there were some passes that were awful and that doesn't have anything to do with a new offense. He's also a 3rd year player and I would hold him to a higher standard than a true freshman. He was a 5 star recruit after all.

With that said, I hope he comes back strong, and maybe the time away allows him to absorb the offense better.

 

[tankjeep]

I don't care who starts/plays. With that said, Crist was so inconsistent. Yea, part of that is probably the new offense, but there were some passes that were awful and that doesn't have anything to do with a new offense. He's also a 3rd year player and I would hold him to a higher standard than a true freshman. He was a 5 star recruit after all.

With that said, I hope he comes back strong, and maybe the time away allows him to absorb the offense better.

that's how i feel too. yeah he was a first year starter, but it's not like it was his first time away from home. he'd been acclimated to school, so focusing on football and a new system shouldn't have been as difficult as what a new student & qb would've gone thru.

i hope he can bounce back, but as devolg said he doesn't have that "it" factor.

 

[mick2]

I don't care who starts/plays. With that said, Crist was so inconsistent. Yea, part of that is probably the new offense, but there were some passes that were awful and that doesn't have anything to do with a new offense. He's also a 3rd year player and I would hold him to a higher standard than a true freshman. He was a 5 star recruit after all.

With that said, I hope he comes back strong, and maybe the time away allows him to absorb the offense better.

more like a third year teammate. not much pt before this year.

devolg how does one actually know when another has it? im just curious. not trying to be an a-hole.