2012 NCAA Lacrosse Open Thread

[IrishLax]

Yale beating Cornell really screwed us as now Villanova sits at #21 and doesn't count as a quality win for us. St. John's sits at #22 but is getting BLASTED by Syracuse 7-0 at halftime.

All things considered though... if we make it out of a rebuilding year where we graduated 5 All-Americans and 60% of our offensive output AND then lost our attack captain and a senior starting defender for the season before the year even got started, as a seeded team hosting a home game.... that's got to be considered a huge success. We will return this entire team next year except for Max Pfeiefer and Kevin Randall.

 

[IrishLax]

Tournament seeds come out tomorrow. Right now I'm projecting ND as a #6 seed. Bucknell somehow moved ahead of Villanova into the #20 spot (Villanova's loss to Providence really screwed them) giving us one less "quality win" and giving UMASS one more "quality win." As such, I think the seeds will go:

1. Loyola
2. Duke
3. UMASS
4. Johns Hopkins
5. UVA
6. Notre Dame
7. UNC
8. Lehigh

(UNSEEDED... but basically arranged by "seed" with exceptions made for rematches, travel, etc.)
9/10. Colgate/Maryland with Maryland playing Lehigh and Colgate getting UNC.
15/16. Stony Brook/Siena

That leaves the spots from 11 to 14 open... those will be filled by, at minimum, Syracuse (Big East AQ) and the Ivy AQ (Princeton or Yale... although Princeton *might* get in as an at large with some luck). So you're likely looking at:

11. Princeton (AQ)
12/13. Denver/Penn State/Fairfield/Cornell
14. Syracuse (AQ)

I'd have to put my money on Penn State and Denver of those 4 based on Penn State's SOS and quality win over ND and Denver's quality win over Duke... neither Fairfield nor Cornell have a single top 10 win.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm hearing through sources that IF Denver gets selected they will likely be our first round matchup because of travel restrictions. While the committee likes to avoid first round rematches, no matter what whoever plays ND basically has to fly to South Bend and whoever Denver plays they will have to fly to... so rather than use up two flights (1 for ND's opponent and 1 for Denver) they'll just send Denver to South Bend. This is all "if" Denver makes the tournament though.

I'm also hearing that if Princeton wins the Ivy AQ, you might see Notre Dame get a higher seed (not that it will really matter or help us in any way) because it'll keep Maryland outside of the top 10 in RPI.... hurting Hopkins, Virginia, Duke, etc. You'll likely see Loyola as the #1 seed, Duke as the #2 seed (although this is currently up for a lot of debate), and then Notre Dame/UMASS in the #3/#4 seed range. If Villanova had stayed inside the top 20, it's possible Notre Dame would have been as high as the #2 seed... but I'm doubting that now. We need Princeton to win the AQ though for us to be in the aforementioned position.

Syracuse and Denver are definitely unseeded teams we'd like to avoid. We can definitely beat Princeton, Penn State, Fairfield, etc. if those are our draw... but Syracuse and Denver are both playing really well right now and it's always VERY hard to beat a team twice (see: last week against St. John's). If we clock in at the #4 seed we almost surely get Denver with UMASS getting Syracuse.... unless Fairfield gets in the tournament over Denver and then we'd likely get Syracuse or Penn State (pleeeeeeeease Penn State... but likely Syracuse) with Fairfield going to UMASS.

 

[IrishLax]

Newest bracketology = ND as a #3 seed hosting Denver with UNC as the looming #6 seed hosting Syracuse. This is literally a nightmare scenario for us. Sryacuse and Denver are the two unseeded teams it would SUCK to play... and UNC is our worst possible matchup of all of the latter seeds.

With that being said.... Yale is currently beating up Princeton 3-0..... this could cause some serious chaos. If Princeton drops back below Maryland look for ND to land somewhere around the #6 seed and Princeton might steal Denver's at-large or get completely left out.

 

[Downinthebend]

When do tickets for the playoff game in the bend go on sale?

 

[IrishLax]

When do tickets for the playoff game in the bend go on sale?

Probably after the game is announced.

In other news.... Princeton is getting waxed by Yale.... this is why I wanted to play them. The last two at-large spots will be a crazy debate.... also, the #3 seed actually matters some now as Yale kinda sucks compared to the rest of the field.... and they'll likely get sent to UMASS.

 

[IrishLax]

ND now projected as a #4 seed playing Denver with UMASS grabbing the #3 seed and Hopkins moving up from their projected #6 seed, as of this morning, to the #2 seed. Duke projected as a #5 seed getting Penn State. So basically, we got kinda hosed by Princeton not holding serve + travel considerations... while we'd probably be in line for a #3 seed and matchup against Yale, travel restrictions will likely mean we go to a #4 seed and have a much harder first and second round matchup against Denver and Duke respectively.

We need to hope that we drop all the way to #6 seed and keep the matchup with Denver.... such that we play UMASS in the quarterfinals. Either that or have Duke grab the #3 seed.

If things stand as projected, look for an early exit from the NCAA tournament.

 

[Wolverine1997]

Michigan's season ended in an ugly, 19-5 loss to #5 north carolina on the road.

Team One will always be remembered as the team that never quit, even when there looked to be no hope.

Very awesome that someday, when my kids have kids they can say your grandpa was at the first ever Michigan Lacrosse game, one of the first season ticket holders, was at the first Michigan-ohio game. Never know what could happen, this program could get the right guy to be the coach someday and win four straight national championships (like Yost did with Michigan Football).

Had a great time going to games and watching the team. Also was nice to get some insight and pointers from you about lacrosse, IrishLax.

Good luck to ND in the tournament.

 

[CarrollVermin]

ND now projected as a #4 seed playing Denver with UMASS grabbing the #3 seed and Hopkins moving up from their projected #6 seed, as of this morning, to the #2 seed. Duke projected as a #5 seed getting Penn State. So basically, we got kinda hosed by Princeton not holding serve + travel considerations... while we'd probably be in line for a #3 seed and matchup against Yale, travel restrictions will likely mean we go to a #4 seed and have a much harder first and second round matchup against Denver and Duke respectively.

We need to hope that we drop all the way to #6 seed and keep the matchup with Denver.... such that we play UMASS in the quarterfinals. Either that or have Duke grab the #3 seed.

If things stand as projected, look for an early exit from the NCAA tournament.

When is the announcement?

 

[IrishLax]

When is the announcement?

Just happened at 9 PM on ESPNU. All things considered, I'm THRILLED with our draw and happy the committee got things right with regards to UMASS and their joke of a schedule. Loyola and Johns Hopkins were rightly seeded #1 and #2... then there was debate between Duke and ND for the #3/#4.... we got the #4 seed but the MUCH better draw. Here's the bracket:

1. Loyola vs. Canisius -- 8. North Carolina vs. Denver

4. Notre Dame vs. Yale -- 5. Virginia vs. Princeton

3. Duke vs. Syracuse -- 6. UMASS vs. Colgate

2. Johns Hopkins vs. Stony Brook -- 7. Lehigh vs. Maryland

So Loyola, despite the first round "bye," is going to have one heck of a matchup against Denver (who just took them to overtime this past week) or UNC (who has an incredible FOGO and offense).

Duke gets completely hosed... because frankly, Syracuse is a LOT better in sheer talent than either Yale or Princeton. UMASS will have a war against Colgate who is flat out better than any team they've faced this year by a considerable margin. When/if they get past that... both Duke and Syracuse's A game will be better than any team they've played all season. This is the the only 4 team pod where every single team could honestly make a run at the championship.

Johns Hopkins, per usual, gets the easiest road to the final four. The opening round matchup against Stony Brook is basically a "bye" and then both Lehigh/Maryland are good teams... but Hopkins matches up pretty well with Lehigh and Maryland got very lucky to beat Hopkins the first time around (read: Maryland isn't very good).

Now for ND.... you have to love our matchup against Yale. The Bulldogs aren't a bad team but they're simply not as talented as the other at-large teams out there we could've been matched up with. And we're much more athletic than they are as a whole. Virginia will be a tough matchup for us... but they're very beatable if you do not slide to Steele Stanwick. They have great shooters but are not very creative... so if we limit transition and shoot well we can win the game. My main concern is with the athleticism of their defense/defensive midfielders which could pose serious issues for our offense. If somehow Princeton upsets Virginia.... well, Princeton is basically a carbon copy of Yale with a better goalie and less depth with slightly better "stars"... we should be able to run them ragged with our 3 midfield lines.

Our first round game will air Sunday on ESPNU.

 

[IrishLax]

Here's the bracket:

http://insidelacrosse.com/sites/default/files/2012_Division_I_NCAA_Bracket.pdf

 

[FDNYIrish1]

What a wide open year in Division I lax this year. I can honestly see 12 of those teams getting hot and making a run at the championship. I wouldnt be shocked to see over 30 goals in that Denver-UNC matchup this weekend! Let May madness begin!

 

[IrishLax]

What a wide open year in Division I lax this year. I can honestly see 12 of those teams getting hot and making a run at the championship. I wouldnt be shocked to see over 30 goals in that Denver-UNC matchup this weekend! Let May madness begin!

Completely agree. I don't think either Yale or Princeton has the depth/talent to make a run... but all of the other 12 teams have "get hot" potential, as you put it. If somehow Princeton upsets UVa we have a realllllllly good shot at the title. We match up very well with Denver, UNC and Loyola... and probably have, at worst, a 50/50 shot at Duke/Hopkins/whoever comes out of the other side. First things first we've got to beat Yale though and they're going to use a gameplan extremely similar to what St. John's just used to beat us.

Not bad for a rebuilding year.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

ND's defensive system gives them a shot at anyone in a one game playoff. Getting caught somewhat flat footed against the Johnnies was a surprise, but I'm sure that won't happen again in the tournament. Completely agree with the matchup potential of the Irish against Denver, UNC, and Loyola. I am honestly surprised that Tierney and Breschi teams play such poor defense.

Yale does make me a little nervous, I believe they are on a 9 game winning streak right now or close to it if I'm not mistaken. But I also believe coach Byrne is the best in the business and like you said they don't have the horses to make a real run.

So lets hear your picks for the first round. I'll take a shot.
Loyola big over Canisius. UNC over Denver in an absolute war. Irish over the Bulldogs. UVA over Princeton, but pretty close game. I think Starsia uses the zone to neutralize Screiber. Duke over Cuse, but closer than anticipated. Gorilla's over Gate. 2 of the best players in the country in that game who noone knows about. Hop over Brook, but this game could be closer than it should be. And the Mountain Hawks over the Terps. Lehigh is seeded, but I would still call it an upset.

 

[Downinthebend]

When do tickets go on sale? How many games are played at ND?

 

[IrishLax]

ND's defensive system gives them a shot at anyone in a one game playoff. Getting caught somewhat flat footed against the Johnnies was a surprise, but I'm sure that won't happen again in the tournament. Completely agree with the matchup potential of the Irish against Denver, UNC, and Loyola. I am honestly surprised that Tierney and Breschi teams play such poor defense.

Yale does make me a little nervous, I believe they are on a 9 game winning streak right now or close to it if I'm not mistaken. But I also believe coach Byrne is the best in the business and like you said they don't have the horses to make a real run.

So lets hear your picks for the first round. I'll take a shot.
Loyola big over Canisius. UNC over Denver in an absolute war. Irish over the Bulldogs. UVA over Princeton, but pretty close game. I think Starsia uses the zone to neutralize Screiber. Duke over Cuse, but closer than anticipated. Gorilla's over Gate. 2 of the best players in the country in that game who noone knows about. Hop over Brook, but this game could be closer than it should be. And the Mountain Hawks over the Terps. Lehigh is seeded, but I would still call it an upset.

By seed....

1. Loyola rolls because Canisius won't be able to slow down their offense.
2. Hopkins rolls and probably keeps on rolling right into the championship game as they are given, per usual, the best draw in the tournament.
3. UPSET! Duke drops a close one to Syracuse after falling behind early. Only reason Duke won their first matchup was that Wigrizer was hot and Syracuse still had an unsettled goalei situation. Syracuse 11 Duke 9.
4. Notre Dame might struggle to beat Yale IF they get down early because Yale plays stall ball. But I think ultimately ND wins something like 9-6 assuming Liam O'Connor has an OK day at the X.
5. Virginia gets tested by Princeton but ultimately triumphs because Princeton has no depth. This is the kind of game Virginia can lose if they get down early and allow Princeton to play slow.
6. UMASS goes down to Colgate 14-13 in probably the second most exciting game of the tournament. Baum > Manny.
7. Lehigh squeaks past Maryland because while both teams play great defense, Lehigh is a better offensive team.
8. UNC beats Denver 15-11 in a sloppy but fun game thanks to dominance from RG Keenan. Both teams score at will but UNC gets more possessions. Denver is able to mask a lack fo depth at home thanks to the high altitude, but in a track meet style game UNC's depth *should* eventually wear them down. With that being said, if turnover-prone UNC shows up OR RG Keenan has one of his off days anything is possible.

 

[IrishLax]

When do tickets go on sale? How many games are played at ND?

Really not sure. I'm trying to see if I can get up there myself right now as ESPN affiliate Inside Lacrosse wants me to live blog the game. I'll let you know if I see anything, but you probably have to buy it at the box office on campus.

Only the first round games are hosted. Quarterfinal games are played "final four" style at two neutral sites. ND's game will be in Philly.

 

[IrishLax]

Tickets!

UND.COM - University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site - Tickets

 

[Downinthebend]

9 dollar online charge is bull, thats like 40% of the price of two tickets. I'll just pick them up tomorrow, but that charge is surprising.

You going to do a preview on Yale?

 

[FDNYIrish1]

It really does annoy me how Hopkins always does seem to get a favorable path Lax, you are definitely correct. They just can't create off the attack, which makes me wonder how long they last.

As for Cuse, I just don't think they ever really had any flow to their offense this year. I expected so much more from Marasco, he just hasn't lived up to that 22 jersey yet. I do think Palasek has the skill set to take over a game, he just seems to disappear for stretches. Duke, though, is one of those teams who has supreme talent all over the field. You just never know what team is going to show up.

And your killing me buddy with my Gorilla's! LOL. I have always had a soft spot for UMASS. Coach Garber was as nice a guy as I have ever met, and Cannella was awesome as well. He recruited me at Stony Brook way back and he was just a great guy. I caught a game on Garber Hill and fell in love with the place. Does that soft schedule hurt them this week? Definitely something to be said about being battle tested during the season that helps come tourney time. We shall see.

Thanks for the chat BTW, great to talk some Lacrosse.

 

[Downinthebend]

Picked up the tickets, won't miss this one.

How many more games will be played at ND if the Irish continue to win?

 

[FDNYIrish1]

There is only one home game in NCAA lax for the seeded teams, unless you win first round and your home field is the host site of the quarterfinals. Which you can play on your home field, and be the away team!

 

[IrishLax]

It really does annoy me how Hopkins always does seem to get a favorable path Lax, you are definitely correct. They just can't create off the attack, which makes me wonder how long they last.

As for Cuse, I just don't think they ever really had any flow to their offense this year. I expected so much more from Marasco, he just hasn't lived up to that 22 jersey yet. I do think Palasek has the skill set to take over a game, he just seems to disappear for stretches. Duke, though, is one of those teams who has supreme talent all over the field. You just never know what team is going to show up.

I've got a number of friends on this current 'Cuse team... and I've been shocked at their "underperformance" this year. But I think it's explainable.... bad faceoffs + bad goaltending = losses. On top of that, their defense has only been average and their offense has been lacking all year when run through their attack. You're so right about both Palasek and Marasco. I've got renewed faith in their offense though if they run it through the midfield. Drawing dodges from up top can free up Palasek to be more aggressive... and Maltz is very underrated IMO, he's really one of the best catch-and-shoot mid-range shooters out there... and if you stretch your defense to account for Maltz/slide to midfielders it leaves open Desko inside. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Syracuse win this game IF they win faceoffs.

And your killing me buddy with my Gorilla's! LOL. I have always had a soft spot for UMASS. Coach Garber was as nice a guy as I have ever met, and Cannella was awesome as well. He recruited me at Stony Brook way back and he was just a great guy. I caught a game on Garber Hill and fell in love with the place. Does that soft schedule hurt them this week? Definitely something to be said about being battle tested during the season that helps come tourney time. We shall see.

Thanks for the chat BTW, great to talk some Lacrosse.

I would love to see UMASS get to the final four... just don't know if it's going to happen. According to my little brother, who attends Penn State, UMASS is incredibly overrated and was beyond lucky to beat PSU much less get to OT. Can Colgate stop their offense? I don't think so. But I also don't think UMASS can stop Colgate's.... so I expect a close, high scoring affair that can go etierh way. Maybe homefield advantage gives the edge to UMASS. Maybe playing tougher competition during the season gives the edge to Colgate. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Duke-Syracuse, Colgate-UMASS, and Denver-UNC are the 3 games of the first round (outside of ND, of course) that I will absolutely watch on television.

 

[IrishLax]

Duke-Syracuse about to get underway on ESPN.

 

[returnofthemack]

HOW TO PLAY LACROSSE - A Basic Guide to Playing Lax
This site explains some of the rules of lax, for those of you that don't follow the sport avidly.

First round of the championship is at 5:15PM tomorrow vs. Yale. It's televised on ESPNU and available online at espn3.com. Tune in and I promise that you'll enjoy watching. Go Irish!

 

[IrishLax]

YALE PREVIEW

YALE PREVIEW

The Bulldogs are quite the enigma of a team. After an abysmal start to the season, including a loss to Sacred Heart, Yale has rebounded to win 9 in a row including two impressive victories in the Ivy League tournament to gain entrance to the NCAAs. While on the surface the 9 game winning streak seems impressive, it becomes less so when you consider the weakness of the Ivy League and some of those wins. Yale snagged 1 goal/overtime victories over Penn, Brown, Bryant, and Stony Brook... all teams that simply aren't that good.

What Yale does well: I've had the opportunity to watch Yale only once but I know a couple people plugged into the Ivy League enough to understand what makes them tick. They're an above average faceoff team that likes to play very slow and with the ball behind the goal. They have good attackmen who can both create for themselves and also beat you with passing. If you give them a lead, it can be very hard to claw back into the game because they aren't going to give you many possessions. They also apparently play with good discipline and poise.... the opposite of a UNC.

What Yale does poorly: Simply put, they aren't very athletic and their goalie is very suspect. If there are weaknesses in this team, it is that while their defensive stats are above average... it's more of a product of playing slow and against weak competition than being a tough nut to crack.

What to watch for: If Liam O'Connor for ND can have a good day at the faceoff X and Notre Dame doesn't fall behind early... ND should be able to win the game. Look for ND's midfield depth to start making a difference in the 4th quarter. Yale will try to isolate their attack on our short stick defensive midfielders by setting picks behind the goal... and then once they have a favorable matchup, they will attack it. Yale will try to force our attackmen to beat them... so Westy Hopkins, Sean Rogers, and Conor Doyle need to play at a high level and convert the chances they get.

Prediction: Notre Dame 9 Yale 6

Game time is 5:15 on ESPNU.

 

[yankeeND]

I like lacrosse a lot. That is definetly a sport I wish we had in high school. Now I am new to the sport and am curious about ND. I now they played Duke for the championship 2 years ago but is that the most successful year they have had or have they always been contenders?

 

[BeauBenken]

Lacrosse | Lowe's Senior CLASS Award

VOTE FOR KEVIN RANDALL!

 

[returnofthemack]

He's down by 0.2% Everybody vote!

 

[AdmiralBackhand]

Just voted.