'08 Class-rate them/thoughts

[Fbolt]

Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore
WR Deion Walker
OG Trevor Robinson
RB Jonas Gray
WR Michael Floyd
MLB Steve Filer
S Dan McCarthy
DE Ethan Johnson
S Jamoris Slaughter
CB Robert Blanton
DT Brandon Newman
OG Lane Clelland
DT Hafis Williams
TE Joseph Fauria-transfer
SLB Darius Fleming
QB Dayne Crist
MLB Anthony McDonald
WLB David Posluszny
E Kyle Rudolph
DT Sean Cwynar
WR John Goodman
C Braxston Cave
OG Michael Golic

 

[jimmymac]

Trev Robinson? Rob Blanton? Idk I don't think it was the best class ever but I'd say it's a pretty solid class.

 

[Rizzophil]

I thought it was and is a solid class. Not a BCS title haul though.

 

[OCIrish]

Had a lot of * power in terms of their ranking, but that's also why the game isn't played on paper. Anywho....didn't think it was or is a disappointing class. I've been more disappointed about the coaching staffs than I have the classes brought in by them.

 

[JDAtlanta]

It was a solid class. It did have some of the biggest under achievers in recent memory. Crist, Goodman, Walker and McDonald fell well short of expectations.

 

[DomeX2 eNVy]

Overall, I'd give them a C+. I believe you need at least 8 or 9 players to be big time players from a class, and this one had 4 or 5. Not necessarily their fault, but not enough to take the program to a top level. The class of '11 will be there, '10 maybe but not likely, and '12 should definitely be there so things are looking up.

 

[IrishLax]

Huge disappointment of a class. Floyd and Rudolph lived up to their billing and so did Jonas Gray when he got the opportunity. There are others in there that turned out to be very good players like KLM, Cave, Blanton, Slaughter, Fleming, etc. that you named... but lets look at the guys who busted:

Anthony McDonald - High 4 guy, has done nothing.
David Posluszny - Has done nothing.
Deion Walker - High 4, has done nothing.
Trevor Robinson - Mega-recruit and 4 year starter, did not improve significantly during his career, major part of the OL problems in his first two years.
Dan McCarthy - Was supposed to be better than his brother Kyle (who was/is an NFL caliber player) and instead did not make much of an impact at all thanks to injuries.
Steve Filer - Hyper athletic, never put it all together into being more than just a spot player.
Ethan Johnson - Mega recruit whose career was derailed by injuries.
Brandon Newman
Lane Clelland
Hafis Williams
Joseph Fauria - transfer.
Dayne Crist - 5 QB who had his career derailed by injuries and other stuff.

So that's 12 BUSTS (like complete busts or transfers or otherwise non-factors) in a class of 23 kids.... that means over half of this consensus top 5 class didn't produce... that's unbelievable.

 

[Irish Fam]

To be fair, this class was probably the most affected by the coaching change. We switched from a pro style to a spread and from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Those are pretty drastic changes.

But, to be real, there were a serious number of busts in this class like IrishLax pointed out. Walker, Mcdonald, Filer, and Crist were all extremely sought after recruits and would be the crown jewels of many other teams classes. They did nothing, or next to nothing.

Kind of make me sick to look at this...

 

[Irish Fam]

ND had the #2 class on Rivals.

Oregon had the #18 class.
Wisconsin had the 31st.
Stanford had the 50th.


...smh

 

[CraigKrenzel]

ND had the #2 class on Rivals.

Oregon had the #18 class.
Wisconsin had the 31st.
Stanford had the 50th.


...smh

Let's hope it says more about Rivals than it says about us

 

[gkautz10]

I think these guys suffered from poor development due to the coaching staff not really developing anyone. If these players would have been freshman this year, I think we would be talking about how great this class was 4 years from now.

 

[IrishLax]

I think these guys suffered from poor development due to the coaching staff not really developing anyone. If these players would have been freshman this year, I think we would be talking about how great this class was 4 years from now.

Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.

 

[stlnd01]

Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.

Yeah. Injuries. Atrocious player development in their first two years. The coaching/system transition followed by the new/old culture clash. General over-ratedness.
What strikes me is this: Robert Blanton, who I'd put at this point in the top five players in this class, was our lowest-rated recruit that year, per ESPN. There was talent. Too much of it just never got realized.

 

[CanadalovesND]

Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore-------B: He has been a solid starter for us for three seasons
WR Deion Walker-------F: Self-Explanatory
OG Trevor Robinson-------B: Not the best OL on the team, but has been solid
RB Jonas Gray-------------C+: Senior season salvaged what was once a disappointing career
WR Michael Floyd---------A+: Holds many ND receiving records. He will be missed. Anyone disagree?
MLB Steve Filer-----------C: Didnt play as much as we though he would, but still a good special teamer
S Dan McCarthy--------D: Has not done much, if anything, with his time here
DE Ethan Johnson--------B-: For a five star recruit, he didnt have the impact he could of had. Still a good player though
S Jamoris Slaughter------B: Really emerged last season. Has got great versatility.
CB Robert Blanton--------B-: Played well, nothing spectactular besides the Michigan State game
DT Brandon Newman--------D-: Named defensive scout player of the year. THats gotta count for something.
OG Lane Clelland----------D: Didnt play much so the grade make sense
DT Hafis Williams---------C: Decent rotational player, didnt see the field that much
TE Joseph Fauria---------D: Played decent as a freshman, blocking-------transfer
SLB Darius Fleming---------B+: Seemed like his sophomore year was his best, bbut still played well since the.
QB Dayne Crist----------C: 2010 was a decent season for him. Too many knee injuries-------transfer
MLB Anthony McDonald--------C-: Saw the field only in sure win situations, not much production from a four star linebacker
WLB David Posluszny---------D+: Didnt really do anything besides special teams
E Kyle Rudolph----------A-: Quality tight End, didnt have his fair share of injuries though
DT Sean Cwynar----------C+: Did a good job filing in for Ian Williams, solid rotational player
WR John Goodman----------C-: Not much from him. Needs to make his 5th count.
C Braxston Cave---------A-: Has developed into a really great center
OG Michael Golic---------C: Didnt really do much, except for his three starts when Cave got hurt

Overall: B/B- Resulted in some stars, some busts, and some in between.

 

[NDhoosier]

Based on the available scholarships left and 5th years available. I would love for them to use the last schollie on D. Walker... WR position is really open right now and who knows, maybe he will finally show his talents...

Based on the 6 rumored 5th years getting a schollie, I think it leaves one free one, Walker will be waiting...

 

[Fbolt]

Yeah, we definitely lacked in the player development department. I think the other contributing factors were injuries, lack of right mindset, and just flat out being overrated.

Player development is key here IMO. They had potential, but required the "right" coach to get that potential out of them. Hope the coaches under Kelly can make this development happen. Not too sure I've seen that happen yet...

...but I'm hoping! This year should be key (I say this every year ).

 

[Old Man Mike]

It has been mentioned that coaching staffs are hoping for about 9 players capable of playing solid starting positions during their upperclass years. That would be deemed a "good" class. Going from good to great would require extra performance by those "good" players.

2008 had Rudolph, Floyd, Cave, KLM, Johnson, Slaughter, Robinson, Blanton, Cwynar, Fleming: to my estimation, a pretty solid "10". When I add to them an extremely valuable late contributor in Gray, and serviceable contributors in Williams, Golic, Goodman, and potential starters pre-injuries in McDonald and Crist, I am counting a VERY solid number of good D1 recruits.

Can one make an argument for "great"? Despite Rudolph, Floyd, Cave, Gray's senior year, and possibly KLM and Slaughter, probably not. Still that's a lot of talent which actually played. I'll give the class a B-B+.

 

[Monk]

Originally Posted by Fbolt
Other than the studs of Rudolph and Floyd, the solid beyond expectations of Cave, the senior season flash of Gray, and potential of Slaughter/KLM-an unspectacular class. Am I wrong?

OLB Kapron Lewis-Moore-------B: He has been a solid starter for us for three seasons
WR Deion Walker-------F: Self-Explanatory
OG Trevor Robinson-------B: Not the best OL on the team, but has been solid
RB Jonas Gray-------------C+: Senior season salvaged what was once a disappointing career
WR Michael Floyd---------A+: Holds many ND receiving records. He will be missed. Anyone disagree?
MLB Steve Filer-----------C: Didnt play as much as we though he would, but still a good special teamer
S Dan McCarthy--------D: Has not done much, if anything, with his time here
DE Ethan Johnson--------B-: For a five star recruit, he didnt have the impact he could of had. Still a good player though
S Jamoris Slaughter------B: Really emerged last season. Has got great versatility.
CB Robert Blanton--------B-: Played well, nothing spectactular besides the Michigan State game
DT Brandon Newman--------D-: Named defensive scout player of the year. THats gotta count for something.
OG Lane Clelland----------D: Didnt play much so the grade make sense
DT Hafis Williams---------C: Decent rotational player, didnt see the field that much
TE Joseph Fauria---------D: Played decent as a freshman, blocking-------transfer
SLB Darius Fleming---------B+: Seemed like his sophomore year was his best, bbut still played well since the.
QB Dayne Crist----------C: 2010 was a decent season for him. Too many knee injuries-------transfer
MLB Anthony McDonald--------C-: Saw the field only in sure win situations, not much production from a four star linebacker
WLB David Posluszny---------D+: Didnt really do anything besides special teams
E Kyle Rudolph----------A-: Quality tight End, didnt have his fair share of injuries though
DT Sean Cwynar----------C+: Did a good job filing in for Ian Williams, solid rotational player
WR John Goodman----------C-: Not much from him. Needs to make his 5th count.
C Braxston Cave---------A-: Has developed into a really great center
OG Michael Golic---------C: Didnt really do much, except for his three starts when Cave got hurt.

If you use the grades given in this previous post, which I believe to be accurate enough, and give each grade a sequential numbering value (A+ = 13 to F = 1 or vice versa) you can find the average. According to this methodology the average falls between C and C+, for what it’s worth.

 

[stlnd01]

It has been mentioned that coaching staffs are hoping for about 9 players capable of playing solid starting positions during their upperclass years. That would be deemed a "good" class. Going from good to great would require extra performance by those "good" players.

Never understood this. Why is nine eventual starters considered a "good" recruiting class?
Yes, you've got 22 top-of-the-depth-chart positions, and nine is nearly half that.
But realistically there are closer to 30 "starting" jobs on a college football team, between nickel package DBs and the second RB and TE and extra WRs and the defensive line rotation. And that's not even counting injuries, which are constant and plentiful. From a class of 23, I'd want more than nine guys making major contributions in their career before I consider a class to be good.

Also, why is "starter" the benchmark? Someone's got to start. Have enough injuries and it'll be a walk-on. That doesn't mean they're any good.

To me, the best ways to judge a class are in how many games they win on Saturdays and how many go on to play on Sundays, and how hard they are to replace. Eight wins each in their jr/sr seasons. A few draft picks. Two to four guys (Floyd and Rudolph and maybe Cave and Gray) who aren't easily replaceable.

By those measures, this class was OK, but that's about it.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Starters are starters. 9 or 10 in each upper class gives about 19 on the field starting. If no frosh start, then you have three precocious sophs who are the other starters. Nickels, dimes, second TEs are back-ups. Nothing says that you don't play back-ups. Nothing says that a class needs no back-ups also. 2008 had back-ups as well. The 9 or 10 number comes from looking at the big picture --- there should always be 9 or 10 in each class. Therefore there are seven or so "back-ups" as sophomores who will ultimately start when the older guys graduate --- the nickels, dimes, second TEs etc. Asking for everybody in every class to be starting and on the field not only is unrealistic, but would mean that almost all underclassmen would be riding pine until each new class graduated.

I realize that I shouldn't bother to clarify matters such as this, as certain visions of what we're talking about apparently drastically differ and are probably irreconcilable. The saving grace of this is that none of it matters.

 

[stlnd01]

Starters are starters.

I guess this is what I don't get. Golden Tate and TJ Jones have both been starting wide receivers at the University of Notre Dame. I like Jones, but he's no Golden Tate.
To me, a "good" class in the end produces more Tates (and Floyds and Te'os and, yes, more guys like Blanton and KLM who rise from less renown to become NFL-caliber ballplayers) than we have been lately. Like I said, just because they're on the field when the game starts doesn't mean they're any good.
Also, the term "starter" is so fungible. Who was our starting tailback last year? Wood or Gray? Who were our starting defensive linemen? Did Motta or Slaughter start at safety? Fox or Calabrese? It depended at least somewhat on who was hot and who we played.
Like you said, our probably-diverging opinions on this topic don't really matter. Blessedly. But I think it's an interesting question. I've heard this "nine starters equals a good class" argument lately, and I just think it sets a pretty low bar.

 

[military_irish]

I think if 50-60% of a class becomes a starter at some point that is a good class. (That may be low I know) The Alabama's, LSU's, or any other SEC teams don't have 22 starting seniors.

The reality is, there are going to be bust, career back-up, and only special team players. They all contribute in some facet though. "Bust" help in practice more than a walk-on will, back-ups help relieve the younger more talented starters when need be, and special team players give up their body every time they are out there to make a great play.

The 2008 class may not have been the greatest but it has done about what it should have.

 

[Monk]

I guess this is what I don't get. Golden Tate and TJ Jones have both been starting wide receivers at the University of Notre Dame. I like Jones, but he's no Golden Tate.
To me, a "good" class in the end produces more Tates (and Floyds and Te'os and, yes, more guys like Blanton and KLM who rise from less renown to become NFL-caliber ballplayers) than we have been lately. Like I said, just because they're on the field when the game starts doesn't mean they're any good.
Also, the term "starter" is so fungible. Who was our starting tailback last year? Wood or Gray? Who were our starting defensive linemen? Did Motta or Slaughter start at safety? Fox or Calabrese? It depended at least somewhat on who was hot and who we played.
Like you said, our probably-diverging opinions on this topic don't really matter. Blessedly. But I think it's an interesting question. I've heard this "nine starters equals a good class" argument lately, and I just think it sets a pretty low bar.

That’s why I think the class should be graded specifically on each individual player and not a label of “starter” or “backup”. If you grade each player for their contributions on the field (as someone did in an earlier post) I think it was a little above average class with a couple excellent players, but a good amount of average to below average players.

I also wouldn’t say this class has “done about what it should have”. What was the class supposed to do? They never brought the team up to the level of competition we as Notre Dame fans expect. Now this does not mean it was all the class of 2008s fault, but that is another discussion for another tread (maybe "What does ND need to turn the corner?").