'24 MI QB CJ Carr (Notre Dame Signee)

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arrowryan

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The specific throw I remember was the throw to Larsen for 3 or 4 yards on 3rd and 7 on the first drive. Felt like they were content settling for a field goal when it’s still 3rd down.
 
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OrlaNDomer

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I definitely feel like Carr takes what is either the easy throw or possibly first read when there’s a deep shot open/available. I don’t have an issue with it but I think we have more explosive plays there than we’ve taken.
 
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OrlaNDomer said:
I definitely feel like Carr takes what is either the easy throw or possibly first read when there’s a deep shot open/available. I don’t have an issue with it but I think we have more explosive plays there than we’ve taken.
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We don't have a Malachi Fields / Eli Raridon to go up and get it like last year and he seems to understand that
 
Dale

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This has become my favorite tap sign chart because it matches NDs profile very well. I think the offense is great. They are not perfect, certainly there are drives throughout every game they should do better at. They were also not great in one specific game - the BYU game in this regard. The points per scoring opportunity was a massive underperformance that game. High red zone variance is probably the #1 reason ND will lose any game. See SMU.
 
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Some of it with the routes is they are running option routes and the other team is playing the sticks. That is why you get the repeated curl/stops/back shoulder etc a few yards short of the sticks, because it’s a few yards short of his man.
 
Dale

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arrowryan said:
The specific throw I remember was the throw to Larsen for 3 or 4 yards on 3rd and 7 on the first drive. Felt like they were content settling for a field goal when it’s still 3rd down.
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I agree with any Larsen throw, because Larsen has basically 0.0% YAC chance. That’s more of a usage complaint for me
 
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PutuporShutup

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Jimmy3Putt said:
Part of not getting sacked is taking the first read if it’s open.
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That's definitely true. To compare it to BBall, pitino was the first to have an approach where the first open shot is the best shot vs trying to get the best shot and turning it over.

My issue with taking our offense from good to great is the first read on first down he tends to just throw it open or not, and at times we're 2nd and ten, and struggle to get back on track. My other issue is when the first read on third down clearly will not get you a first down or situationally correct opportunity to go for it on 4th, and he takes it.

Bottom line, I still don't think we stress a defense very much, especially with how good our pass pro has been. We could be making opposing teams secondary's defend a lot longer.
 
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ab2cmiller

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The throw to Larsen was a pick play that Greathouse didn't get hardly any rub at all on the LB. Safety was able to make an aggressive move to cover the play because it was obvious that Greathouse wasn't the intended receiver.
 
Dale

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PutuporShutup said:
That's definitely true. To compare it to BBall, pitino was the first to have an approach where the first open shot is the best shot vs trying to get the best shot and turning it over.

My issue with taking our offense from good to great is the first read on first down he tends to just throw it open or not, and at times we're 2nd and ten, and struggle to get back on track. My other issue is when the first read on third down clearly will not get you a first down or situationally correct opportunity to go for it on 4th, and he takes it.

Bottom line, I still don't think we stress a defense very much, especially with how good our pass pro has been. We could be making opposing teams secondary's defend a lot longer.
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If you think ND is only “good” at staying on schedule than most of the country is awful.

Who/How many are “great” at doing what you idealistically want offensively this year?
 
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arrowryan

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ab2cmiller said:
The throw to Larsen was a pick play that Greathouse didn't get hardly any rub at all on the LB. Safety was able to make an aggressive move to cover the play because it was obvious that Greathouse wasn't the intended receiver.
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I’d rather utilize a rub route for someone with YAC ability
 
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PutuporShutup

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Dale said:
If you think ND is only “good” at staying on schedule than most of the country is awful.

Who/How many are “great” at doing what you idealistically want offensively this year?
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I was saying for how good our offense is when we get off schedule we are not good (not that we aren't good at staying on schedule). Meaning, we are 2nd and 10 and we're in trouble. 2nd and 10 is never that easy, but I feel for how good of an offense we should be, we should be able to get back on track better.

Personally, I think we should have the top offense in the country regarding ability to play well in big games and score points. The fact that multiple teams have done better offensively vs BYU and Miami when they were both perfect weather games concerns me.

Returning heisman possible front runner/top 10 pick, supposed one of the top OCs, one of the best olines, talent/experience/depth at WR/Good rbs (TE really only weakness especially since not using Premer). Who came into college this season with more than ND on offense with talent and experience? Maybe texas but they have Arch at the most important position and Sark who is not the best OC?

We're close, i hope the staff keeps on trying to improve what they do vs only trying to improve the execution of what they ALREADY do.
 
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PutuporShutup said:
I was saying for how good our offense is when we get off schedule we are not good (not that we aren't good at staying on schedule). Meaning, we are 2nd and 10 and we're in trouble. 2nd and 10 is never that easy, but I feel for how good of an offense we should be, we should be able to get back on track better.

Personally, I think we should have the top offense in the country regarding ability to play well in big games and score points. The fact that multiple teams have done better offensively vs BYU and Miami when they were both perfect weather games concerns me.

Returning heisman possible front runner/top 10 pick, supposed one of the top OCs, one of the best olines, talent/experience/depth at WR/Good rbs (TE really only weakness especially since not using Premer). Who came into college this season with more than ND on offense with talent and experience? Maybe texas but they have Arch at the most important position and Sark who is not the best OC?

We're close, i hope the staff keeps on trying to improve what they do vs only trying to improve the execution of what they ALREADY do.
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Okay you didn’t really answer my question, since you aren’t really qualifying what this “good to great” thing means I would like to know just who is great this year offensively so we can see what ND is better or worse at?
 
Bane

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arrowryan said:
I was looking back at Miami highlights. What’s the reasoning behind Carr throwing to receivers short of the sticks on 3rd and medium?
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Dale said:
and our 4th down conversion rate is elite and at a high pace.

we are also elite in PP drive inside the 40, because he avoids getting knocked out of field goal range.
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Dale nailed it. It's more useful to think of ND as having 4 downs to pick up a first more often than not. We playcall and Carr seems to play that way. If we're in between the 40s, good chance we go for it on 4th and short.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Dale said:
Okay you didn’t really answer my question, since you aren’t really qualifying what this “good to great” thing means I would like to know just who is great this year offensively so we can see what ND is better or worse at?
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North Texas............... lol j/k

I did answer your question. I think we should be the best offense in the country because there isn't that consistently dominant offense outside of Miami with Toney.

We should be 55% 3rd & 4th down conversion combined, we're 42% and ranked 45th in the country on 3rd and I think if you use 4th down as well you get up around 46%. We were 5 for 14 on 3rd down vs Miami, an average to bad passing D. That's bad.

With our schedule, we should be closer to 45ppg not 39.

Our passing efficiency I believe is close to 20th in the country, that's ridiculous with a heisman leading candidate pocket passing qb. You'd think we'd have one of the top 10 running games as a reason for not having a top passing offense, nope. Total offense 25-30th. How slow we go on offense impacts PPG and total offense, but it should help us on 3rd down conversion rates and efficiency.

Again, it's about what you do vs the good teams. We were bad offensively vs BYU, and better probably good against Miami. Hopefully we keep building.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Bane said:
Dale nailed it. It's more useful to think of ND as having 4 downs to pick up a first more often than not. We playcall and Carr seems to play that way. If we're in between the 40s, good chance we go for it on 4th and short.
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Every team goes for it on fourth down, not only ND. ND has gotten to 3rd down like 110-115 times and didn't get it almost 70 times. We've gone for it on fourth down around 20 times.

We can't just be like, well our bad 3rd down conversion rate doesn't matter because ND goes for it on fourth down a little more than others, and has success.

You got to compare apples to apples, and ND's 3rd down conversion is not good despite so few negative plays.
 
Dale

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PutuporShutup said:
55% 3rd & 4th down conversion combined, we're 42% and ranked 45th in the country on 3rd and I think if you use 4th down as well you get up around 46%.
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You double counted the same two play sequence. It would be 58% first down rate if you include 4th down conversions as an offset to third down failures.
 
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PutuporShutup

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Dale said:
You double counted the same two play sequence. It would be 58% first down rate if you include 4th down conversions as an offset to third down failures.
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Good catch, I was moving too fast multi tasking.

Is it safe to say ND clearly utilizes 4th down the most to achieve those good numbers in your chart above? Other than ND, the chart above is all the top 3rd down teams. I'd much rather not have to go for it on fourth down.

It's just not a good formula to be so reliant on 4th down. So far so good this year but you miss them in a big game and they are massive momentum swings.
 
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ab2cmiller

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PutuporShutup said:
Good catch, I was moving too fast multi tasking.

Is it safe to say ND clearly utilizes 4th down the most to achieve those good numbers in your chart above? Other than ND, the chart above is all the top 3rd down teams. I'd much rather not have to go for it on fourth down.

It's just not a good formula to be so reliant on 4th down. So far so good this year but you miss them in a big game and they are massive momentum swings.
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It seems like they do. Just like that 3rd down play to Larsen on the first drive. I don't think they were confident that's a likely first down type of play. I think they thought there's a smaller chance we get the first down but a strong chance we at least get to 4th and short.
 
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PutuporShutup

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ab2cmiller said:
It seems like they do. Just like that 3rd down play to Larsen on the first drive. I don't think they were confident that's a likely first down. I think they thought there's a strong chance we get to 4th and short.
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Yeah, you just don't want to give good teams shorter fields than necessary. 2 of Miami's 3 tds were on shorter fields. The kick out of bounds and the shanked punt.
 
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PutuporShutup

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GTB said:
So all this gassing is just about the fact that our play calling is conservative?
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Ha. I think it's discussing is it intentional play calling, is it mistakes by carr, mistakes by wrs, is it a plan by freeman, etc? What we know, we're not good at getting first downs on 3rd down, but we're really good on 4th down. If i'm ND's staff, i wouldn't want to get bit by this in a future big game.

I don't think ND wants to live in midfield 4th downs, but they are obviously willing to utilize them.
 
Dale

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PutuporShutup said:
What we know, we're not good at getting first downs on 3rd down, but we're really good on 4th down. If i'm ND's staff, i wouldn't want to get bit by this in a future big game.
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We are also very good at avoiding pass downs. So when you look a singular piece piece of info OOC, it isn’t great. But the full picture is very good. Hence, available yards posted previously.

ND gets a lot of yards and scores a lot of points, in short. Seems grrrrrreat!
 
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OrlaNDomer said:
I definitely feel like Carr takes what is either the easy throw or possibly first read when there’s a deep shot open/available. I don’t have an issue with it but I think we have more explosive plays there than we’ve taken.
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He's felt "stiff" since the TAMU loss last year. Scared of losing the game. I hope this Miami win lets him get a little release.
 
ulukinatme

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Dale said:
View attachment 3065843

This has become my favorite tap sign chart because it matches NDs profile very well. I think the offense is great. They are not perfect, certainly there are drives throughout every game they should do better at. They were also not great in one specific game - the BYU game in this regard. The points per scoring opportunity was a massive underperformance that game. High red zone variance is probably the #1 reason ND will lose any game. See SMU.
Click to expand...

Not far enough in the Top Right, do not want!
 
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