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TorontoGold

TorontoGold

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Bishop2b5 said:
That's now seven opportunities to rise to the occasion and accept my challenge to actually show us how you can clown on me instead of just telling us how it's happened in the past or how somebody else did it. And seven times you've declined to put your money where your mouth is and back up your weak claim. Everything you've done today was to avoid doing so. And I've baited you into it and led you around like a puppy, getting you to do exactly what I said you'd do in my OP:

And that's exactly what you've done ever since, just like I said you would.
Click to expand...

lolwut?

You've been clowned. You said that mods asked you to stop, I called you out, you haven't posted proof. That is a clowning.

This is almost as pathetic as you saying you're a doctor. Christ, spend time with the grandkids, being humiliated on a forum where you only exist to serve as a punching bag can't be good for your health. (I am clowning on you here for being pathetic).

You've lost harder than Fbolt in divorce court.
 
NDWarrior

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drayer54 said:
There's zero credible genocide arguments to be made. You don't feed/warn/ take caution in a genocide. This has zero characteristics of a genocide. It's a simple tactic of using extreme rhetoric to justify hate of the jews like they do with the Republicans and Trump. Sadly, some in the TikTok culture, Hollywood, and the Bluesky DSA bubble can't figure that out.
Click to expand...

Zero is a strong number... No one hates Jews if they're in favor of stopping the murder of women and children in Palestine, they're against an oppressive Israeli-directed killing machine. I don't care what you call it, they're tactics are about killing enough to drive fear and exodus and weaken the population for settlers to come along - with IDF protection - and harass, force out, and even kill local Palestinians.

Let's call it a forced and violent removal from Palestinians' homeland with a lot of immoral murder and harassment thrown in (I know, let's call it an Ethnic Cleansing)... Don't get caught up in Semantics, look at the actions and the state's intent.

The fact that you reference Hollywood is a joke and exposes you being misinformed. Hollywood leadership is made up of Zionists who support, fund, and shill Israeli Zionism, and you see how they try and force conformity, kill opposition via pressure tactics, leveraging that control and power in Hollywood.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The argument makes one valid observation — scale alone doesn't define genocide — but then inverts the logic by implying scale disproves genocide. It also misrepresents the legal standard, uses selective casualty framing, and draws a methodologically flawed historical comparison. As a rhetorical device it's superficially clever; as a legal or analytical argument, it doesn't hold up.

Where the argument has serious problems


1. The legal definition of genocide isn't about body counts


This is the argument's foundational flaw. Under the 1948 Genocide Convention, genocide requires intent to destroy a group "in whole or in part." You don't need to kill 30-40% of a population. The Holocaust killed roughly 1% of Europe's total population — no one disputes it was genocide. The Srebrenica massacre (~8,000 killed) was ruled genocide by international courts. The argument's entire premise misunderstands the legal standard.


2. The Hiroshima/Nagasaki comparison is misleading


Nuclear bombs kill primarily through instantaneous blast and radiation. Gaza has been under sustained bombardment, siege, and blockade for over a year with ongoing casualties. Comparing a two-day event to a prolonged campaign is not a valid apples-to-apples comparison. Additionally, the 73k figure cited reflects confirmed deaths — independent analysts and the Lancet estimated actual deaths (including indirect causes like disease and starvation) could be several times higher.


3. "A substantial percentage are terrorists" is asserted, not demonstrated


The post states this as fact. Gaza's health authorities (the source cited) record deaths by age and gender — a significant proportion of documented deaths are women and children, which contradicts this claim without evidence.


4. Lower death toll could reflect obstacles to killing, not intent to spare


A low death toll relative to capacity is consistent with either restrained intent or practical limitations (urban terrain, international pressure, hostage concerns, etc.). The argument treats one interpretation as the only possible one.


5. It conflates "not maximally lethal" with "not genocidal"


Genocide scholars and courts look at a pattern of actions: forced displacement, destruction of food/water/medical infrastructure, dehumanizing statements by officials, blocking humanitarian aid. The ICJ's January 2024 provisional ruling found a plausible case for genocide precisely because of this broader evidentiary picture — not body count percentages.
 
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NDWarrior

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Just the latest in this "conflict" where the IDF is going after "Hamas terrorists."

In the meanwhile, the Israel Defense Forces said they were looking into the incident...


1789665379090.png

1789665581733.png
 
NDWarrior

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drayer54 said:
Did the US commit a genocide in Dresden in WW2?
Click to expand...
Dude, I'm gonna stop you right there. Whether it's Nagasaki/Hiroshima, Dresden, or anything like that, in those cases, we're talking an active war (World War in these cases!).

1) At this point, Hamas has been severely weakened and no longer functions as a conventional military force, and Hamas is not currently conducting major attacks inside Israel, though low-level operational clashes continue in Gaza and the Israeli military maintains regular airstrikes against remaining commanders.

2) So this is not an active war where the IDF is required to randomly snipe, bomb, and attack local Palestinians just trying to survive. In the name of what we they be required to do this? And don't try and echo the obvious bullshit IDF statements about why they needed to double tap civilians. It's all bullshit

So, IDGAF what Dresden or Hiroshima were, current IDF and Israeli state violence and murder in Gaza is not the same. And they've only rinsed and repeated the same strategy and actions in Southern Lebanon.

But, hey, you keep sticking up for and justifying the pregnant mother and child killers all you want, that's your depraved and disgusting choice.
 
Bishop2b5

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TorontoGold said:
lolwut?

You've been clowned. You said that mods asked you to stop, I called you out, you haven't posted proof. That is a clowning.

This is almost as pathetic as you saying you're a doctor. Christ, spend time with the grandkids, being humiliated on a forum where you only exist to serve as a punching bag can't be good for your health. (I am clowning on you here for being pathetic).

You've lost harder than Fbolt in divorce court.
Click to expand...
That's now your eighth time to spin and twist and run. You're a coward and weaker than baby piss cut with Coors Lite. Your misinterpretation of past events, spinning, and completely insecure bs isn't me getting clowned on, and it sure isn't an example of you doing it. I challenged you to show us that can by hitting me with your 10 best shots, and all you've done is twist and spin and dodge that, and try to change the narrative, EXACTLY as I said you would. Stop being a coward. Back up your claims of "clowning on me" if you aren't too scared. No more excuses. No more spin. Just do it. Otherwise I'm going to continue dragging you and exposing you for the cowardly, insecure POS you are. You wanted my attention, you got my attention.
 
Bishop2b5

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TorontoGold said:
You've lost harder than Fbolt in divorce court.
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Instead of continuing to claim I've lost and been clowned on, why don't you just accept my challenge to demonstrate it? You have a history of claiming victories you haven't actually earned... in fact, you're the poster child for the saying about why you don't play chess with a pigeon: it will just knock over the pieces, shit on the board, and then strut around like it won.

So, pigeon, stop strutting, stop telling us how great you are. Show us. Don't chicken out. Don't spin. Don't keep running and dodging and trying to change the discussion and making excuses. Yes or no: are you able to clown on me or are you too scared to accept my challenge of hitting me with your 10 best "clown shots" and actually letting us see those amazing clowning skills you keep telling us about. Just answer the question without being a cowardly weasel. Yes or no, are you the super tough clown you say you are or the weak little coward I say you are?
 
TorontoGold

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Bishop2b5 said:
Instead of continuing to claim I've lost and been clowned on, why don't you just accept my challenge to demonstrate it? You have a history of claiming victories you haven't actually earned... in fact, you're the poster child for the saying about why you don't play chess with a pigeon: it will just knock over the pieces, shit on the board, and then strut around like it won.

So, pigeon, stop strutting, stop telling us how great you are. Show us. Don't chicken out. Don't spin. Don't keep running and dodging and trying to change the discussion and making excuses. Yes or no: are you able to clown on me or are you too scared to accept my challenge of hitting me with your 10 best "clown shots" and actually letting us see those amazing clowning skills you keep telling us about. Just answer the question without being a cowardly weasel. Yes or no, are you the super tough clown you say you are or the weak little coward I say you are?
Click to expand...

Do you even know what you’re writing? Can you not read? I’ve called you out and you can’t even address that.

Usually at this point someone comes to save you and chirps at me, but no one can even understand what your point is.

1) You are a social pariah on this website. Literally outcast from the football forums. You have no defenders left there.
2) You can no longer engage in any type of discussion on the political threads. See your recent schizo spiral the past two days.
3) You can’t prove any of your claims, no mod reached out to you to take it easy on me, never mind TWO mods.

Prove any of those three statements false. You are not a man.
 
Bishop2b5

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TorontoGold said:
Do you even know what you’re writing? Can you not read? I’ve called you out and you can’t even address that.

Usually at this point someone comes to save you and chirps at me, but no one can even understand what your point is.

1) You are a social pariah on this website. Literally outcast from the football forums. You have no defenders left there.
2) You can no longer engage in any type of discussion on the political threads. See your recent schizo spiral the past two days.
3) You can’t prove any of your claims, no mod reached out to you to take it easy on me, never mind TWO mods.

Prove any of those three statements false. You are not a man.
Click to expand...
Bishop2b5 said:
. Yes or no: are you able to clown on me or are you too scared to accept my challenge of hitting me with your 10 best "clown shots" and actually letting us see those amazing clowning skills you keep telling us about. Just answer the question without being a cowardly weasel. Yes or no, are you the super tough clown you say you are or the weak little coward I say you are?
Click to expand...
We have our answer. For the 9th time in a row, you tried to change the subject, run, dodge the question, spin, twist, and just refuse to answer or accept the challenge to back up your claim of being able to clown on me. You are the weak insecure little coward I've always said you are. And it was easy to get you to demonstrate that repeatedly to the entire board the past 24 hours.
 
drayer54

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NDWarrior said:
Dude, I'm gonna stop you right there. Whether it's Nagasaki/Hiroshima, Dresden, or anything like that, in those cases, we're talking an active war (World War in these cases!).

1) At this point, Hamas has been severely weakened and no longer functions as a conventional military force, and Hamas is not currently conducting major attacks inside Israel, though low-level operational clashes continue in Gaza and the Israeli military maintains regular airstrikes against remaining commanders.

2) So this is not an active war where the IDF is required to randomly snipe, bomb, and attack local Palestinians just trying to survive. In the name of what we they be required to do this? And don't try and echo the obvious bullshit IDF statements about why they needed to double tap civilians. It's all bullshit

So, IDGAF what Dresden or Hiroshima were, current IDF and Israeli state violence and murder in Gaza is not the same. And they've only rinsed and repeated the same strategy and actions in Southern Lebanon.

But, hey, you keep sticking up for and justifying the pregnant mother and child killers all you want, that's your depraved and disgusting choice.
Click to expand...
Was Oct 7 not an act of war?

Killing an org that hides under hospitals and schools is going to have challenges.
 
drayer54

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drayer54 said:
Was Oct 7 not an act of war?

Killing an org that hides under hospitals and schools is going to have challenges.
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This got a boo from NDWarrior.

Teens killed at a music festival. Women dragged on the streets and beaten by the citizens with shoes. Women raped and tortured. Families including children slaughtered in their homes. Hostages taken- raped, beaten and tortured. All were taken because of why?

Taken to a tunnel system built under civilian infrastructure where rockets were fired indiscriminately at Israelis. Those rockets were pointed at and launched at Israel after their people were slaughtered and taken hostage. Was this not an act of war? BOOOOOOOOO

Granted- this sick worldview has support from the assholes at the NYT
1789697365939.png
 
ulukinatme

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drayer54 said:
This got a boo from NDWarrior.

Teens killed at a music festival. Women dragged on the streets and beaten by the citizens with shoes. Women raped and tortured. Families including children slaughtered in their homes. Hostages taken- raped, beaten and tortured. All were taken because of why?

Taken to a tunnel system built under civilian infrastructure where rockets were fired indiscriminately at Israelis. Those rockets were pointed at and launched at Israel after their people were slaughtered and taken hostage. Was this not an act of war? BOOOOOOOOO

Granted- this sick worldview has support from the assholes at the NYT
View attachment 3064797
Click to expand...

I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in this conflict: Hamas generally doesn't care who they hit, if they're Israeli anyone is a target. With Israel they generally try to avoid civilian casualties, but it's going to happen when the enemy abuses locations like hospitals, schools, hotels, etc. This was 20 years ago, but statistically Israel tended to retaliate once for every 10-15 strikes that Hamas performed at the time. Part of that was because of where the attacks originated from (Civilian structures), and part of it is that you can only poke the bear so many times before it defends itself.
 
Bishop2b5

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drayer54 said:
This got a boo from NDWarrior.

Teens killed at a music festival. Women dragged on the streets and beaten by the citizens with shoes. Women raped and tortured. Families including children slaughtered in their homes. Hostages taken- raped, beaten and tortured. All were taken because of why?

Taken to a tunnel system built under civilian infrastructure where rockets were fired indiscriminately at Israelis. Those rockets were pointed at and launched at Israel after their people were slaughtered and taken hostage. Was this not an act of war? BOOOOOOOOO
Click to expand...
The complete lack of morality it takes to defend those who did this and run interference for a terrorist organization behind it, plus the gullibility to be a useful idiot for such people and acts is disgusting. Add the blatant antisemitism from them to the mix and you have some of the worst people alive.
 
NDWarrior

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drayer54 said:
Was Oct 7 not an act of war?

Killing an org that hides under hospitals and schools is going to have challenges.
Click to expand...

ulukinatme said:
I think that's an important distinction that gets lost in this conflict: Hamas generally doesn't care who they hit, if they're Israeli anyone is a target. With Israel they generally try to avoid civilian casualties, but it's going to happen when the enemy abuses locations like hospitals, schools, hotels, etc. This was 20 years ago, but statistically Israel tended to retaliate once for every 10-15 strikes that Hamas performed at the time. Part of that was because of where the attacks originated from (Civilian structures), and part of it is that you can only poke the bear so many times before it defends itself.
Click to expand...

In case it's not clear, I'm generally not railing against the October 7 event (altho' see more about that below), but the parts where you're stating this highlighted propaganda.

I'll admit, I've never followed Israeli-Hamas-Palestine-Gaza events that deeply until recently, but at this point, Israel has almost entirely vanquished Hamas, and to me it sounds like Hamas has been trying to cut deals with Israel, but it's obvious Israel wants no part of anything like that or peace in the region, that's absolutely a fact.

So, all your statements are bullshit because at this point, it's just pure terror and cruel killing and abuse of the people and destruction of the land - an Ethnic Cleansing at it were - and all these talking points are continually used as propaganda at this point.

Now, here's my controversial statement and I don't think anyone can prove it, just like Israel can't prove anything they actually do, instead coming up with unilateral, unproven reasoning for why they shot this pregnant mother, or why they shot this newly betrothed bride, or why they shot this kid in the head, or at the knee cap, ensuring he'll lose his leg, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Bebe and Israel encouraged the extra concert day at the military base and essentially let the Hamas backed terrorist group, thinking they were going to get hostages at a military base for negotiation leverage, into the area where of course the terrorists found a lot more than just military base personnel.

1789709128933.png

But the worst part, as I'm sure you have heard of by now, is that Israel compounded the carnage to the concert-goers by doing some of the killing of Israelis themselves (see the Hannibal Directive) and by having IDF soldiers make several graphic claims about infants being burned or decapitated during the October 7, 2023, attacks—such as a baby being burned in an oven—which were later found by journalistic and official investigations to be unverified or false.

Have you ever heard of any prosecution of Hamas terrorist when supposedly Israel and the IDF claim to know who many of the perpetrators are? Has Bebe and the Israel government ever released details of any open, official investigations into Oct 7? No, and for good reason: A lot of it is made up propaganda to get world sentiment to feel bad for Israel and to allow them to have their way with the Palestinian people in terms of cruelty and ethnic cleansing. I'm sure the Hamas terrorists did some killing but not to the extent that Israel and the IDF describe.

Even our beloved Charlie Kirk had serious doubts about the event when he heard no one showed up to help out the concert-goers for up to 10 hours after the attack first started being reported that morning - Why? Israel is not that big of a country (about the size of NJ) and as many say, that country is locked down surveillance wise and monitored 24 x 7. Oct 7 is what was essentially the catalyst for Charlie Kirk to start questioning Israel and their bullshit propaganda and false flag events. And he died for that questioning.

Meanwhile, "the most moral army in the world" (talk about branding and propaganda!) keeps on keeping on in Gaza...

1789709509734.png
 
NDWarrior

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Bishop2b5 said:
The complete lack of morality it takes to defend those who did this and run interference for a terrorist organization behind it, plus the gullibility to be a useful idiot for such people and acts is disgusting. Add the blatant antisemitism from them to the mix and you have some of the worst people alive.
Click to expand...
Really, just shut up and go away... You don't know what you're talking about.
 
Bishop2b5

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NDWarrior said:
Really, just shut up and go away... You don't know what you're talking about.
Click to expand...
Yes or no, did they rape and torture teenage girls, intentionally kill children, intentionally slaughter civilians, take and keep hostages for months or even years, sexually assault many of those hostages, and parade teen girls' bodies through the streets to cheering crowds?

They did all that. You're just a POS for defending them and making excuses for them.
 
NDWarrior

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Bishop2b5 said:
Yes or no, did they rape and torture teenage girls, intentionally kill children, intentionally slaughter civilians, take and keep hostages for months or even years, sexually assault many of those hostages, and parade teen girls' bodies through the streets to cheering crowds?

They did all that. You're just a POS for defending them and making excuses for them.
Click to expand...
Bishie, you and I both know, and especially with a dishonorable and conniving country like Israel, it's hard to decipher what actually happened and to what degree, but again, one thing that looks pretty solid to me is that Israel let it happen and began the already-planned and waiting-to-launch targeted bombings on Gaza and Hamas almost immediately (within hours of Oct 7 event), and then started the ethnic cleansing almost immediately thereafter.

I'm not an inhumane person, and I, like I would think most of us on here, condemn terrorist violence on any people by any group, but I do question the why, how, and to what extent of said terrorist event.

And even then, the event and the supposed "war" are over at this point and Hamas has been severely degraded and defeated as an organized military force, and yet, everything you outline continues BUT from the Israel side. upon the Palestinian people on a daily basis almost three years later (and really Israel has been committing this kind of brutality for decades, and way before Oct 7).
"... they rape and torture teenage girls, intentionally kill children, intentionally slaughter civilians, take and keep hostages for months or even years, sexually assault many of those hostages, and parade teen girls' bodies through the streets to cheering crowds."
Click to expand...

And, not just to Palestinians in Gaza, but since the last 4-5 months, to Southern Lebanon and its people, same brutal Israeli and IDF playbook inflicted on the Lebanese people.
 
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ulukinatme

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NDWarrior said:
In case it's not clear, I'm generally not railing against the October 7 event (altho' see more about that below), but the parts where you're stating this highlighted propaganda.

I'll admit, I've never followed Israeli-Hamas-Palestine-Gaza events that deeply until recently, but at this point, Israel has almost entirely vanquished Hamas, and to me it sounds like Hamas has been trying to cut deals with Israel, but it's obvious Israel wants no part of anything like that or peace in the region, that's absolutely a fact.

So, all your statements are bullshit because at this point, it's just pure terror and cruel killing and abuse of the people and destruction of the land - an Ethnic Cleansing at it were - and all these talking points are continually used as propaganda at this point.

Now, here's my controversial statement and I don't think anyone can prove it, just like Israel can't prove anything they actually do, instead coming up with unilateral, unproven reasoning for why they shot this pregnant mother, or why they shot this newly betrothed bride, or why they shot this kid in the head, or at the knee cap, ensuring he'll lose his leg, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Bebe and Israel encouraged the extra concert day at the military base and essentially let the Hamas backed terrorist group, thinking they were going to get hostages at a military base for negotiation leverage, into the area where of course the terrorists found a lot more than just military base personnel.

View attachment 3064800

But the worst part, as I'm sure you have heard of by now, is that Israel compounded the carnage to the concert-goers by doing some of the killing of Israelis themselves (see the Hannibal Directive) and by having IDF soldiers make several graphic claims about infants being burned or decapitated during the October 7, 2023, attacks—such as a baby being burned in an oven—which were later found by journalistic and official investigations to be unverified or false.

Have you ever heard of any prosecution of Hamas terrorist when supposedly Israel and the IDF claim to know who many of the perpetrators are? Has Bebe and the Israel government ever released details of any open, official investigations into Oct 7? No, and for good reason: A lot of it is made up propaganda to get world sentiment to feel bad for Israel and to allow them to have their way with the Palestinian people in terms of cruelty and ethnic cleansing. I'm sure the Hamas terrorists did some killing but not to the extent that Israel and the IDF describe.

Even our beloved Charlie Kirk had serious doubts about the event when he heard no one showed up to help out the concert-goers for up to 10 hours after the attack first started being reported that morning - Why? Israel is not that big of a country (about the size of NJ) and as many say, that country is locked down surveillance wise and monitored 24 x 7. Oct 7 is what was essentially the catalyst for Charlie Kirk to start questioning Israel and their bullshit propaganda and false flag events. And he died for that questioning.

Meanwhile, "the most moral army in the world" (talk about branding and propaganda!) keeps on keeping on in Gaza...

View attachment 3064801
Click to expand...



Israel could have wiped out Palestine decades ago if they wanted. They haven't, and in the past they've offered them quite a bit for decent 2 state solutions which were never accepted. Many Palestinians and certainly all of Hamas would not do the same if the roles were reversed.
 
NDWarrior

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Sorry dude, that's a rehash of the same ole propaganda and the guy that posted the video is a right of center Israeli who I'm sure very much embraces Zionism. Look up the history of how the Ashkenazi Jews entered into Palestine and the violence, brutality and murder they initiated almost immediately after the Palestinians took them in from WWII-ravaged Europe and concentration camps.
 
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Polish Leppy 22

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NDWarrior said:
In case it's not clear, I'm generally not railing against the October 7 event (altho' see more about that below), but the parts where you're stating this highlighted propaganda.

I'll admit, I've never followed Israeli-Hamas-Palestine-Gaza events that deeply until recently, but at this point, Israel has almost entirely vanquished Hamas, and to me it sounds like Hamas has been trying to cut deals with Israel, but it's obvious Israel wants no part of anything like that or peace in the region, that's absolutely a fact.

So, all your statements are bullshit because at this point, it's just pure terror and cruel killing and abuse of the people and destruction of the land - an Ethnic Cleansing at it were - and all these talking points are continually used as propaganda at this point.

Now, here's my controversial statement and I don't think anyone can prove it, just like Israel can't prove anything they actually do, instead coming up with unilateral, unproven reasoning for why they shot this pregnant mother, or why they shot this newly betrothed bride, or why they shot this kid in the head, or at the knee cap, ensuring he'll lose his leg, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Bebe and Israel encouraged the extra concert day at the military base and essentially let the Hamas backed terrorist group, thinking they were going to get hostages at a military base for negotiation leverage, into the area where of course the terrorists found a lot more than just military base personnel.

View attachment 3064800

But the worst part, as I'm sure you have heard of by now, is that Israel compounded the carnage to the concert-goers by doing some of the killing of Israelis themselves (see the Hannibal Directive) and by having IDF soldiers make several graphic claims about infants being burned or decapitated during the October 7, 2023, attacks—such as a baby being burned in an oven—which were later found by journalistic and official investigations to be unverified or false.

Have you ever heard of any prosecution of Hamas terrorist when supposedly Israel and the IDF claim to know who many of the perpetrators are? Has Bebe and the Israel government ever released details of any open, official investigations into Oct 7? No, and for good reason: A lot of it is made up propaganda to get world sentiment to feel bad for Israel and to allow them to have their way with the Palestinian people in terms of cruelty and ethnic cleansing. I'm sure the Hamas terrorists did some killing but not to the extent that Israel and the IDF describe.

Even our beloved Charlie Kirk had serious doubts about the event when he heard no one showed up to help out the concert-goers for up to 10 hours after the attack first started being reported that morning - Why? Israel is not that big of a country (about the size of NJ) and as many say, that country is locked down surveillance wise and monitored 24 x 7. Oct 7 is what was essentially the catalyst for Charlie Kirk to start questioning Israel and their bullshit propaganda and false flag events. And he died for that questioning.

Meanwhile, "the most moral army in the world" (talk about branding and propaganda!) keeps on keeping on in Gaza...

View attachment 3064801
Click to expand...
Just stop. Israel didn't welcome in Hamas to rape, torture and murder Israeli citizens, 9/11 wasn't an inside job, and claiming these theories with zero substantive evidence doesn't make you sound smart. Take your unfounded conspiracy theories somewhere else.
 
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