College Football Playoffs

[johnnykillz]

Let the record show my vote is to remain Indy until the day comes, and our hand forced...

Until that day, we are the ones all others will hate for our ability to function minus support.

 

[stlnd01]

My only problem with a four-team playoff is the "conference champion" requirement (and not just because I'd like ND to remain independent).
This guy - whoever he is - talks about "the third-best team in the SEC" and says "get over it." OK. But the second-best team in the SEC or Pac 10 is often better than the best either the ACC or Big East has to offer. When was the last time either conference had a legit national title contender, which is exactly what the four teams in a four-team playoff ought to be.
Would you have put in, say, Clemson over Stanford this year? On what planet was West Virginia more deserving of a title shot than Alabama?
You also completely eliminate any incentive to play good nonconference opponents. If strength of schedule no longer matters, why take the risk? That's bad for football.
Make it four teams, but make it at-large. If recent years are any indication you're going to have at least one conference runner-up a year who's far more deserving than the fourth-best conference champion, and that's just going to spark a whole new round of controversy. But we can settle on the top four teams - or certainly at least three of them - most every year.

 

[NDPhilly]

When we finally have to join the ACC they will need to add another team to make it a even 16. Most think this will be UCONN. I think the ACC really needs to add another power team besides ND. Maybe PSU? WVU would have been a good choice but they chose Big 12. Even Rutgers would be a better choice than UCONN.

 

[DillonHall]

When we finally have to join the ACC they will need to add another team to make it a even 16. Most think this will be UCONN. I think the ACC really needs to add another power team besides ND. Maybe PSU? WVU would have been a good choice but they chose Big 12. Even Rutgers would be a better choice than UCONN.

Neither Rutgers nor UConn provides much in terms of football, but Uconn has great basketball tradition (both men and women) and I'd welcome that background in our conference. Rutgers, in my opinion, is the epitome of mediocrity- both in athletics and academics.

 

[NDPhilly]

Maybe Northwestern would want out of a conference with all state schools?

 

[NDhoosier]

Why are some of you so adamant on joining a Conference, most Notre Dame fans would rather stay independent. That is a huge plus for Notre Dame, especially when it comes to national attention and money... joining a conference would only hinder us.

 

[irishpat183]

I actually like the current bowl system and would love to get rid of the BCS and go back to the coaches and media polls.

And from the looks of this article (4 teams) we'd have the same problems we have now.


Like I was saying to a buddy of mine the other day...what does a playoff solve? Because while we all bitch and moan about who should be playing in what game, we'd have the same problems with a playoff. If we had a 10 team playoff, team 11 would cry. If it was 8, team 9 would cry.....Also, you'd discredit the regualr season somewhat. We wouldn't solve anything other than satisfy those that believe that playoffs are the only way to come to a championship.

But teams like the Giants prove otherwise. Its about getting hot at the right time, not being the best team.

 

[irishpat183]

And ND is joining a conference....just a matter of time. Not saying I like it, but that's the way it's going.

It's not about "want to" its about not being left out. We haven't done anything recently to demand that we be included.

So join or die.

 

[Cali_domer]

And ND is joining a conference....just a matter of time. Not saying I like it, but that's the way it's going.

It's not about "want to" its about not being left out. We haven't done anything recently to demand that we be included.

So join or die.

That depends, Neinas(big 12 commish) said that ND may get an exception if ranked top 5 and higher than other conference champs.

 

[phork]

Why are some of you so adamant on joining a Conference, most Notre Dame fans would rather stay independent. That is a huge plus for Notre Dame, especially when it comes to national attention and money... joining a conference would only hinder us.

No one is, but its the future whether you like it or not. There is no huge plus for ND being independent when we go 6-6 and 8-4 and lose to mediocre teams in mediocre bowls every year.

 

[gkIrish]

I have thought about this for the last couple of years or so and have come to the conclusion that I personally would prefer to join the ACC as opposed to any other conference or remaining independent. I do think there are many valid reasons to remain independent or join the Big Ten but here's my two cents.

1. We clearly haven't been able to achieve success (championships) as an independent in the last 2 decades. More importantly, the SEC is basically guaranteed a spot in the Nat'l Champ game every year. If a team from the Big 12 or Big Ten goes undefeated, they will almost assuredly get into the game ahead of an undefeated Notre Dame. Some would disagree but I think most years this would be true. A 1 loss ND team does not get in over an undefeated ACC or Pac-12 team either.

2. We have pretty much exhausted our recruiting pipelines in the Midwest. With Ohio State and Michigan recruiting well, it may be time for us to look more heavily towards the states covered by the ACC.

3. The ACC is more enticing to national prospects because they get to travel to warm-weather cities like Miami. There's little reason to think we can't keep playing USC, Michigan, and Navy every year too (although I think that schedule might be too difficult). Along with that, joining the Big Ten adds no value to the recruiting process because we don't expand any pipelines and offer prospects no additional value.

4. The ACC has some very good academic institutions. Duke, Wake Forest, UNC, Virginia, and BC are great schools. Comparable to the Big Ten if not better. We would fit in really well. TV won't be an issue... We might lose some money and personalized coverage overall, but I guarantee we will be on TV for every single game. I bet NBC Sports strikes a deal with the ACC the minute ND joins.

5. Obviously this is not what I want to happen. But the reality of the situation is that we tend to lose a game or two in the beginning of the year, every year. Joining a conference gives all of us something to look forward to if we do lose early. We can still win our conference and make a BCS/playoff if that goes down. If we don't lose, great...nothing changes.

6. With Big East basketball about to lose many of its members, the ACC presents an opportunity to retain many of our traditional rivalries and begin new ones with great basketball schools like Duke.

My ideal scenario would be an 8 game ACC schedule, Navy, cupcake, Michigan, USC.

 

[irishpat183]

No one is, but its the future whether you like it or not. There is no huge plus for ND being independent when we go 6-6 and 8-4 and lose to mediocre teams in mediocre bowls every year.

Exactly. If we were killing it every year, it wouldn't be a discussion. We all love our independence, but again, it's only a matter of time and we don't have the credit we once had. "We are ND" is not gonna work anymore.

 

[stlnd01]

I have thought about this for the last couple of years or so and have come to the conclusion that I personally would prefer to join the ACC as opposed to any other conference or remaining independent. I do think there are many valid reasons to remain independent or join the Big Ten but here's my two cents.

1. If a team from the Big 12 or Big Ten goes undefeated, they will almost assuredly get into the game ahead of an undefeated Notre Dame. Some would disagree but I think most years this would be true. A 1 loss ND team does not get in over an undefeated ACC or Pac-12 team either.

2. We have pretty much exhausted our recruiting pipelines in the Midwest. With Ohio State and Michigan recruiting well, it may be time for us to look more heavily towards the states covered by the ACC.

3. The ACC is more enticing to national prospects because they get to travel to warm-weather cities like Miami. There's little reason to think we can't keep playing USC, Michigan, and Navy every year too (although I think that schedule might be too difficult). Along with that, joining the Big Ten adds no value to the recruiting process because we don't expand any pipelines and offer prospects no additional value.

4. The ACC has some very good academic institutions. Duke, Wake Forest, UNC, Virginia, and BC are great schools. Comparable to the Big Ten if not better. We would fit in really well. TV won't be an issue... We might lose some money and personalized coverage overall, but I guarantee we will be on TV for every single game. I bet NBC Sports strikes a deal with the ACC the minute ND joins.

5. Obviously this is not what I want to happen. But the reality of the situation is that we tend to lose a game or two in the beginning of the year, every year. Joining a conference gives all of us something to look forward to if we do lose early. We can still win our conference and make a BCS/playoff if that goes down. If we don't lose, great...nothing changes.

6. With Big East basketball about to lose many of its members, the ACC presents an opportunity to retain many of our traditional rivalries and begin new ones with great basketball schools like Duke.

My ideal scenario would be an 8 game ACC schedule, Navy, cupcake, Michigan, USC.

1: History would show there are very rarely three undefeated teams from the BCS conferences plus ND. That prospect is no reason to join a conference. If we're undefeated, with our schedule, odds are very high we'd play for the title. At one loss, we're in the mix with other one-loss teams, as we should be.

2: Huh? Whatever. We're a national university. We recruit nationally. Especially if we continue to play a national schedule. Though this is one reason that, if we must join a conference, I'd lean to the ACC. Geographic diversity.

3: We already play at least one warm-weather game a season. Often more. What's the difference? Kid's still got to live in South Bend nine months of the year. Most of the ACC ain't really that warm anyway.

4: Yes. I'd agree. In many ways we're a better fit academically in ACC than the Big State U-dominated Big Ten.

5: We lose "a game or two" early and we're still in the BCS hunt. We lose more than that and it's a pretty hollow conference championship, is it not?

6: Basketball. Meh.

Clearly, I'd prefer independence as long as we have a reasonable way in to the BCS/national title system and a decent setup for bowl games in years we go 9-3/8-4. Playing a broad national schedule is very good for Notre Dame football, and the university as a whole.
If we must join a conference, I was an ACC lean until I watched us go to Wake and play Maryland in DC. That scene was pathetic (and brought back bad memories of attending games at BC and Pitt). Not sure I want to watch that four times a year. At least the Big Ten knows and cares about football. Not sure where I'd lean now.

 

[AKRowdy]

Going back to the playoff discussion what if the top 16 teams get into the playoff, no conference tie-ins at all. The best teams play each other based on rank. If there are 4 teams from the SEC then they are all in, if there are no Big East teams in the top 16 then they don't get in. Simple as that. Once we get to the final 4 and the games are held at the more notible stadiums (where the modern BCS Bowl games are played). Then finally the national championship game is played at the the Fiesta Bowl, Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl, and Orange Bowl, rotating every year.
Now conferences will still be used but for the bowl tie-ins which will be availible for teams that fall outside of the top 16. This concept will keep the bowl season "feeling" and also not cutting back on football over the bowl season but adding more for the fans to watch.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

16 teams is way too many. 4 or 6, max. Fact is, there are never 16 teams who can have a legitimate claim that they deserve a shot at a national championship. However, there are usually around 4 who can say they deserve a shot for the title.

 

[gkIrish]

1: History would show there are very rarely three undefeated teams from the BCS conferences plus ND. That prospect is no reason to join a conference. If we're undefeated, with our schedule, odds are very high we'd play for the title. At one loss, we're in the mix with other one-loss teams, as we should be.

2: Huh? Whatever. We're a national university. We recruit nationally. Especially if we continue to play a national schedule. Though this is one reason that, if we must join a conference, I'd lean to the ACC. Geographic diversity.

3: We already play at least one warm-weather game a season. Often more. What's the difference? Kid's still got to live in South Bend nine months of the year. Most of the ACC ain't really that warm anyway.

4: Yes. I'd agree. In many ways we're a better fit academically in ACC than the Big State U-dominated Big Ten.

5: We lose "a game or two" early and we're still in the BCS hunt. We lose more than that and it's a pretty hollow conference championship, is it not?

6: Basketball. Meh.

Clearly, I'd prefer independence as long as we have a reasonable way in to the BCS/national title system and a decent setup for bowl games in years we go 9-3/8-4. Playing a broad national schedule is very good for Notre Dame football, and the university as a whole.
If we must join a conference, I was an ACC lean until I watched us go to Wake and play Maryland in DC. That scene was pathetic (and brought back bad memories of attending games at BC and Pitt). Not sure I want to watch that four times a year. At least the Big Ten knows and cares about football. Not sure where I'd lean now.

1. I'm not saying there could be three plus ND. I'm saying the SEC gets one if they have any team with 1 loss or less. If either the Big Ten or Big 12 also have an undefeated team, we are probably out of luck with our independent schedule.

2. That's my argument (albeit a poorly worded one). The ACC opens up some pipelines we don't have right now. Joining the Big Ten adds no relative value to our recruiting

3. The difference is that the more games the kids get to play away from South Bend the better. Miami, UNC, Duke, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Florida State, Clemson, Wake Forest etc. are all warm-weather schools at least through early November. We play in 2 warm weather states at best currently (at USC and a random game here or there)

5. The conference championship would guarantee a BCS game. One or two losses early (as an independent) forces us to scoreboard watch. We would control our own destiny by winning the ACC

6. Some of us care about basketball. But yes, this will likely not influence the decision much

 

[NDhoosier]

Exactly. If we were killing it every year, it wouldn't be a discussion. We all love our independence, but again, it's only a matter of time and we don't have the credit we once had. "We are ND" is not gonna work anymore.

Actually "We are ND" does still work... Look at the class we just got with an 8-5 season, and it was a rough 8-5 season.

We have been having less-than stellar seasons because we have had a less-than stellar team... Whether it was lacking talent, lacking coaches, or both, that is the reason for losing. Not because we are independent. If we go 10-2 this year, you will be singing a different tune and we have the talent to do so. We can win as an independent and I am sorry, but our schedule is as tough as any schedule there is in the college game. A 1 loss ND team would be a very credible candidate for the NC game (probably would have been in Oklahoma State's position this year if that was case, in which Alabama had no reason to be in the NC game, SEC favoritism).

The ONLY reason I hope Notre Dame would join a conference is if it is impossible to play in the NC Game without being in a conference. An undefeated or 1 loss Notre Dame team should ALWAYS be in the NC Game discussion, regardless of conference alignment. This would only falter if after the conference realignment, we are unable to keep teams like MSU, UM, U$C, and Stanford on the schedule and forced to play MAC teams...

 

[phgreek]

16 teams is way too many. 4 or 6, max. Fact is, there are never 16 teams who can have a legitimate claim that they deserve a shot at a national championship. However, there are usually around 4 who can say they deserve a shot for the title.

4 teams is my top end. I don't like putting two more games on these guys...this ain't baseball. Now the players and coaches will all tell you no big deal...folks will point to DIVII and DIVIII playoffs...I get it. Just think 14 games at this level of competition has got to be the ceiling...I mean geez, you are inching toward an NFL schedule...not good.

 

[irishpat183]

Actually "We are ND" does still work... Look at the class we just got with an 8-5 season, and it was a rough 8-5 season.

We have been having less-than stellar seasons because we have had a less-than stellar team... Whether it was lacking talent, lacking coaches, or both, that is the reason for losing. Not because we are independent. If we go 10-2 this year, you will be singing a different tune and we have the talent to do so. We can win as an independent and I am sorry, but our schedule is as tough as any schedule there is in the college game. A 1 loss ND team would be a very credible candidate for the NC game (probably would have been in Oklahoma State's position this year if that was case, in which Alabama had no reason to be in the NC game, SEC favoritism).

The ONLY reason I hope Notre Dame would join a conference is if it is impossible to play in the NC Game without being in a conference. An undefeated or 1 loss Notre Dame team should ALWAYS be in the NC Game discussion, regardless of conference alignment. This would only falter if after the conference realignment, we are unable to keep teams like MSU, UM, U$C, and Stanford on the schedule and forced to play MAC teams...

I meant the "We are ND" argument no longer holds water with the powers than be in college football. We haven't won jack in 20 somthing years. I doubt they're gonna give us a special spot when everything goes down. We're joining a conference. Just accept that. I just hope it's the ACC. We may not like it, but that's what's gonna happen. I'll bet anyone on here a large sum of money that it happens in the next 3-5 years.

And why the hell should a 1 loss ND team get any special treatment over anyother 1 loss or undefeated team? Come on. A lot of variables go into that. You can't make a blanket statment like that...

 

[irishpat183]

4 teams is my top end. I don't like putting two more games on these guys...this ain't baseball. Now the players and coaches will all tell you no big deal...folks will point to DIVII and DIVIII playoffs...I get it. Just think 14 games at this level of competition has got to be the ceiling...I mean geez, you are inching toward an NFL schedule...not good.

Very true...I could live with 6. And then cut regular seasons down to 10 games with conference titles. that way, you're only looking at 14 game max...

 

[NDhoosier]

And why the hell should a 1 loss ND team get any special treatment over anyother 1 loss or undefeated team? Come on. A lot of variables go into that. You can't make a blanket statment like that...

I never said we should receive special treatment, but with our schedule, a one loss Notre Dame team should be on equal footing or above any other one loss team, because that is how the BCS system works...schedule strength (I simply compared our one loss team to what OK St U had to deal with this year). How are you twisting my words like that, that takes some serious dedication.

 

[phgreek]

Very true...I could live with 6. And then cut regular seasons down to 10 games with conference titles. that way, you're only looking at 14 game max...

10 games RS is even better for us in the face of super conferences...easier to fill out a schedule...I'd be ok with it...

 

[stlnd01]

then cut regular seasons down to 10 games with conference titles. that way, you're only looking at 14 game max...

Not gonna happen. 116 teams or so won't make that playoff. How do you convince them give up two regular season games? Not to mention the lost inventory for ESPN and other broadcasters.

Any playoff gets added on to the existing 12-game schedule. Which is fine, but also an argument to keep playoffs compact. Four teams. Maybe 8. Personally I'm for eight if it means teams that don't win a major-conference championship can qualify. The more I think about that idea, the more I dislike it (and not just b/c it would force ND to join a conference).

Also, to phgreek's point: If there are superconferences and we're not in one, 10 games screws us, because no one will have more than one or two nonconference slots on their schedule, and many will fill them with cupcakes. Even half our regulars would bail.

 

[NDhoosier]

Any playoff gets added on to the existing 12-game schedule. Which is fine, but also an argument to keep playoffs compact. Four teams. Maybe 8. Personally I'm for eight if it means teams that don't win a major-conference championship can qualify. The more I think about that idea, the more I dislike it (and not just b/c it would force ND to join a conference).

Amen +1

 

[NDTH91]

Until those 64 teams leave the NCAA or they make it a whole different division so there is a 1-A, 1-AA, and 1-AAA.

If this did happen, I think a relegation system (like the premier league has in soccer) would be cool. Maybe take the top 4 in 1-AA and move them into 1-A and move the bottom four teams of 1-A down to 1-AA.

On an unrelated note, I think the idea of having the "semifinal" games on the higher ranked/seeded team's campus would be awesome. Can you imagine the atmosphere if ND were to host one of those games with a chance to play for a national championship? We would see this campus and that stadium on a level they have never been on before. It would be like the usc game times a million. I would definitely be an advocate of that.

 

[phgreek]

Also, to phgreek's point: If there are superconferences and we're not in one, 10 games screws us, because no one will have more than one or two nonconference slots on their schedule, and many will fill them with cupcakes. Even half our regulars would bail.

Reasonable point...still think folks are gonna want to schedule us...but maybe not.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

Very true...I could live with 6. And then cut regular seasons down to 10 games with conference titles. that way, you're only looking at 14 game max...

If they went to an 8 team playoff, I could see them nixing the conf. championship games altogether.

 

[ShakeDown]

BCS meetings look to get plan for 4-team playoff - NCAA Football - Sporting News

 

[irish1958]

You can't have BCS unless you have two thirds BS.
They will fix it so we will have a four team playoff of the SEC.

 

[Downinthebend]

Nd will be in whatever format if they are undefeated (and if they have 1 loss they'll be in a 4 team). I don't really care.