'12 IN QB Gunner Kiel (Cincinnati Transfer)

NYMIKE6

YEAH I GOT THE SHAKES
Messages
1,383
Reaction score
97
BB, my inside source still says Gunner will not be happy till this hits 5,000...... I mean this thread alone is the reason why he flipped....
 

ab2cmiller

Troublemaker in training
Messages
11,452
Reaction score
8,531
Freebie at ISD
In the Film Room: Gunner Kiel

In the Film Room: Gunner Kiel
Tuesday, 24 January 2012 01:28 Bryan Driskell
E-mail Print PDF
GunnerKielEdit1

The journey was long and had a number of twists and turns, but in the end Brian Kelly got the quarterback he wanted and needed for the Class of 2012 when Gunner Kiel (Columbus, Ind./East) enrolled early at Notre Dame. Kiel originally committed last summer to Indiana but during the fall he decided to reopen his commitment. With Notre Dame appearing to be in great shape to land his commitment, Kiel shocked the recruiting world by picking then No.1 LSU. Ultimately Kiel decided he wanted to stay closer to him and Notre Dame finally won out in its battle to land the nation’s top quarterback. When he showed up on campus it ended any talk of the inability of Kelly and his staff’s inability to land a top quarterback. Kelly has now added ultra-talented quarterback Everett Golson and now Kiel to the stable at quarterback, giving the Irish two young, talented, explosive, and playmaking signal callers.

Every major service has Kiel ranked as either the No. 1 or No. 2 ranked quarterback nationally, and landing a player with Kiel’s talent certainly adds flare to the Class of 2012. Rivals.com, Scout.com, and 24/7 all graded Kiel as a five-star prospect, rare for a drop-back quarterback. The last pro-style quarterback to receive a five-star grade from Rivals.com was Matt Barkley of USC back in 2009. Kiel is the first pro-style quarterback to ever receive a five-star grade by 24/7, a service that is in its third season of grading prospects. Kiel’s reputation has been earned and is well-deserved. On top of being named Indiana’s Mr. Football and the state Gatorade Player of the Year, Kiel was also named an Army All-American after his senior season. He threw for 7175 yards during his career and threw 64 touchdowns against only 10 interceptions over the last two seasons. During his senior season Kiel also showed off his running ability by scampering his way to 482 rushing yards and 11 rushing touchdowns. As a quarterback he has the total package, possessing ideal size, arm strength, intelligence, and athleticism.

Kiel chose the Irish over Alabama, Cincinnati, Georgia, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, LSU, Michigan, Missouri, Oklahoma, Purdue, TCU, Tennessee, USC, Vanderbilt, and Wisconsin.

SIZE/BODY/STRENGTH

The 6-foot-4, 220-pound quarterback has ideal size for the quarterback position. He has good height and does a nice job staying tall in the pocket. This allows Kiel to scan the entire field and keep his eyes downfield and over top of the front level defenders. Kiel is a well-built and strong athlete at 220 pounds. It is obvious that Kiel has put in good work in the weight room and there is no doubt that he will put in the work necessary to continue to develop as an athlete and quarterback. Despite already weighing 220 pounds, Kiel has the frame to continue to reshape his body and add more power. As he gets stronger in the weight room there will be an increase in the power he has on his throws. Kiel is also a tough quarterback that does not shy away from contact, almost to a fault. The Columbus East standout is tough in the pocket and possesses the ability to bounce off defenders as he buys time to throw the football or steps into the pocket to run.

Kiel also shows a lot of guts in the pocket by keeping his eyes downfield and the ball in position to throw as defenders are closing in on him. He is more than willing to stand tall in the pocket and take a hit if it means he will be able to complete a pass. When he gets into the open field Kiel is more than willing to put his shoulder down in an attempt to run over a defender. He fights hard for extra yards and runs aggressively in the red zone, a key reason he scored 11 touchdowns on the ground as a senior. Notre Dame’s coaches will have to work with him on protecting his body and learning when to avoid contact, something that shows Kiel is a football player as well as a quarterback. But with his size and strength he will have a much better chance at holding up to the punishment he will take.

ATHLETIC ABILITY/RUNNING ABILITY

Kiel will not strike fear into the hearts of opponents with his athletic ability, but for a player with his size he moves well. Kiel will not be as productive on the ground in college as he was in high school, but he is more than capable of keeping teams honest and making them pay for not respecting his athletic ability. He is more than capable of becoming a good chain mover and red zone runner at the next level. Teams will have to respect his ability to run or risk allowing him to pick up solid chunks on the ground. His ability to make plays with his legs will help him make an easy transition into the Notre Dame offense, which struggled in 2011 because of its quarterback’s inability to move.

He is a solid all-around athlete that possesses decent speed, quick feet, and solid agility for a player with his size. Kiel is a bit stiff in the hips so he is not an overly elusive runner but he is quick and decisive when he runs. The Army All-American possesses good speed on the edge and is able to tuck the ball on the edge and quickly get downfield for solid gains. Kiel is faster than he looks once he gets rolling. Teams that drop hard against him when he rolls out put themselves in position to get beat if he decides to take off. In this regards he is similar to former Notre Dame quarterback Dayne Crist prior to his second knee injury, although Kiel is a bit more instinctive as a runner than was Crist. From the pocket, Kiel shows very good field awareness and is quick to see running lanes. Once he commits to running he has the agility to quickly plant and attack open creases for solid gains.

ARM STRENGTH

Kiel’s arm strength grew on me a bit. Initially I did not see a quarterback with a great arm, one that lacked the power of current Notre Dame quarterback Andrew Hendrix or the now-departed Crist. But as you watch him throw you will notice that his ball covers more ground than it might appear. He does not possess the arm strength of the two quarterbacks I mentioned, but what I did like was his ability to overcome that lack of elite arm strength with strengths of his own. Kiel has a good arm and can make all the throws he will be asked to make in the Notre Dame offense. The 6-foot-4 passer has enough arm to get the ball over top of the defense, to get the ball out on the deep out routes, to hit the comebacks with relative ease, and he can power the ball up the seams in Notre Dame’s vertical passing game. Kiel has a quick release and the ball spins out of his hand tightly, which causes the ball to cut through the air. This allows his passes to jump out of his hand and get on receivers faster than his natural power might dictate. Kiel does a real nice job getting the ball downfield with good velocity and a good arc.

His throwing motion does have two significant benefits. By getting the ball downfield quickly he is able to fit the ball into tighter areas and prevents defenders from closing on the football when he throws deep. It also makes his passes much easier for his receivers to catch, which is always a plus.

The Columbus East standout throws the ball with impressive zip over the middle of the field. I have in mind here all the throws he makes between the numbers. When he throws up the seams, over the middle, and over the top he does a good job stepping into his throws and exploding through the throwing zone. He tends to keep his throwing motion faster on these throws and the ball jumps out of his hand and quickly gets onto his receivers. Kiel has the ability to throw the deeper out throws with good velocity, although he has to be more consistent with his footwork on these throws. There are times when he does not step properly on his outside throws, especially to the left. This either causes him to open up his hips too early (steps too far) or close up his hips (doesn’t step far enough), and when either of these things happen his ball has a tendency to float or nose dive. He showed improvement as a senior, and as he continues to become even more consistent with his footwork his ability to consistently make the harder out throws will significantly increase.

Kiel is not always consistent utilizing his power. When his footwork is correct and he is quick and strong with his throwing motion he is able to power the ball deep downfield on the outside and over the top on post routes. There are times, however, when Kiel will dip his back shoulder too much, causing his ball to float more than I would like. Kiel has a tendency to aim the ball at times, and when he does he slows down his release and tries to be too fine with the throw. This is often counterproductive and causes his ball to either sail or sink, depending on when he releases the football. When he stays quick and strong with his throwing motion, even if his feet aren’t set, Kiel can zip the ball on the outs and over the middle of the field.

Kiel also shows good arm strength and the ability to power the ball when he’s on the move. He throws a tight and accurate ball when he is on the run to his right. As he works outside he does a great job working downhill, keeping the ball on his back shoulder, keeping his eyes downfield, and he quickly zips the ball to an open receiver. Kiel will need work on being a bit more fluid when he rolls out to the left, but the potential is there. He also does a real nice job rolling left, quickly flipping his hips, squaring up, and quickly zipping the ball downfield after the pocket has moved. This makes him dangerous when he rolls out, as safeties will have a tendency to freeze or start working downhill when he runs left. If they do this he has the arm strength and mechanics to quickly set as described above and throw the ball over the top of the defense for a big play.

Just as important as arm strength is believing in your arm, and Kiel really believes in his arm. I really like this about him. Kiel is a gutsy quarterback that is not afraid to take risks and squeeze the ball into tight areas. His decision making will continue to improve as he matures, which will help improve his completion percentage and eliminate some mistakes. At this point Kiel tends to force a few too many balls, especially downfield, but as a quarterback coach you would much rather have a quarterback who has a lot of confidence and is willing to take risks than one who shies away from the potential big plays. Kiel’s throwing ability combined with the confidence he has in his throwing ability will allow him to make a lot of plays with his arm whenever he is on the field.

MECHANICS

Kiel is a well-schooled and well-coached young quarterback. This should help him compete early on in his career, but he still needs work as a quarterback. Kiel’s biggest issue is doing what he knows to do on a more consistent basis. As mentioned above, when his mechanics are correct and he is forceful with his arm he can zip the ball all over the field. Too many times he will slow down his throwing motion and try to aim the ball into a spot. This not only slows down his passes, it also causes him to be more erratic with his passes. On the deep balls it causes his pass to float more than it should, especially when he dips his back shoulder too much and fails to bring his entire body through on the pass.

I would like to see Kiel do a better job driving off his back foot when he throws the football, especially on the harder outside throws and the outside go routes. Kiel is very light on his feet and has a tendency to use too much of his upper body when he throws, failing to really drive off his back foot and ripping the ball out to his receiver. Against faster and more talented competition this could create a few more incompletions and possibly a few more turnovers. If he can be a bit more firm with his footwork and learn to quickly drive off his back foot, which will cause more explosiveness with his hips, Kiel’s arm will show even more zip and consistency. If this happens Kiel will become an even more dangerous and effective quarterback. Kiel also has to clean up his release point a bit, as he has a tendency to rush his throwing motion, causing his passes to go high. This will come with more maturity and work and should not be an issue for him once he gets more college coaching and experience.

Kiel excels in the quick game thanks to his ability to see the field, quickly plant, and zip the ball out to his receivers. The one throw where he consistently does a nice job of planting and driving off his back foot is on his quick throws. His footwork forces him to push off his back foot more and the results are obvious. He also does a nice job being quick and compact with his release on the quick throws and does not rush or aim the ball nearly as much. Kiel is an effective play-action passer and shows advanced mechanics in this regards. He does a great job riding out and selling fakes while keeping his eyes downfield on the defense. Once he makes his fake he is able to quickly flip his hips, plant his feet, and quickly get the ball out to receivers. This is crucial to the Notre Dame offense and something is sorely lacked in 2011.

ACCURACY

Kiel did not have a great completion percentage as a high school quarterback, something that is more about the system he played in (high risk) and the talent that surrounded him than it does his ability to be accurate with the football. If he can correct some of the mechanic issues addressed earlier and continue to gain more experience his completion percentage should take off at the next level.

Kiel understands ball placement and knows where the football needs to go. He knows when to throw the ball low-and-away, he knows when to put the ball on the hip of his receiver, and he knows when to put the ball high. When his mechanics are correct he does a great job keeping balls over the middle at the chest of his receivers or lower. He also does a good job keeping sideline routes on the outside which prevents defenders from jumping the pass. Kiel also shows an advanced understanding of what kind of throw is necessary from a velocity standpoint. He shows good touch on short routes and knows how to put the ball over top of linebackers but in front of safeties. For many young quarterbacks this is one of the harder throws to make but Kiel already excels with this pass. As his mechanics get cleaned up he will be even more effective when it comes to accuracy and ball placement.

POCKET PRESENCE/FOOTWORK

The good coaching he has received is most evident when watching Kiel work from within the pocket. As has already been mentioned, Kiel does a nice job staying light on his feet and keeping the ball in ready position. This allows Kiel to get the ball out quickly to his receivers and allows him to find receivers late in the play as the defense is closing in on him. He gets good depth with his first step but his second and third steps are short and quick, allowing him to quickly get out of his drop if he needs to quickly get rid of the football. Kiel does a good keeping his feet underneath his shoulders at all times, and does a good job of keeping a proper base. At times Kiel is too quick in his drops and tends to rush his feet, which can cause him to speed up his entire delivery. This is one of the factors that contributes to the inconsistency of his release.

Kiel is the rare high school quarterback that understands his feet must take the rest of his body through his progressions. This allows him to marry his feet and eyes together as he reads the defense. When he sees an open receiver or anticipates an opening this allows him to immediately get rid of the football and deliver a strong, accurate throw. Of course he will need to continue to refine this trait, but he is starting with a foundation that far surpasses the majority of the quarterbacks in this class. The Columbus East standout also possesses good quickness in the pocket. He is able to quickly avoid pressure by either stepping into the pocket to pass, step into the pocket to run, to get outside of the pocket, or to step up and then out of the pocket. Kiel also does an excellent job of keeping two hands on the ball and keeping the ball in ready position as he works in the pocket. Often times defenders see him start to scramble and they freeze, but by keeping the ball ready to throw Kiel is able to throw the ball over their heads when he sees them stop.

OVERALL

Kiel truly is the total package as a quarterback. Outside of his great size and intelligence, I do not believe he possesses an elite trait in any one department. His arm is good, but it’s not elite. He’s a good athlete, but he’s not elite. What makes Kiel so special is the fact he is above average to very good in every department. He has no noticeable flaw in his game. There are some mechanical areas where he needs work, but there is nothing that cannot be quickly improved with good coaching. No, his arm isn’t elite, but it is still quite good. No, he isn’t an elite athlete, but he can hurt teams with his legs. When that is combined with his football I.Q., his toughness, his size, and his competitiveness it is easy to see why so many college coaches and all the recruiting services thought so highly of him. Although he is a well-schooled quarterback it would serve him well to be able to take a year or two to continue to get stronger, get used to being in a college setting, and really work to grasp the Notre Dame offense. If he is afforded the time to really mature physically and mature mentally (from a system standpoint) he could one day emerge as a dynamic quarterback for the Irish. His intelligence and size could allow him to compete early on, but Kiel would be better served to have at least a year to develop. If he is able to maximize his ability and stay healthy he could have an outstanding career for Notre Dame. If the young quarterbacks already on campus do not get the job done, Kiel does have the talent and smarts to get onto the field much sooner.

GRADES

Size: 93 (Great height, excellent build, strong lower body, ideal QB frame)
Strength: 88 (Well built, tough football player, needs some work but has a great foundation)
Arm Strength: 86 (Throws a good deep ball, powers the ball up the seams, can make the tough out throws)
Mechanics/Throwing Motion: 87 (Well-schooled for high school quarterback, quick release)
Accuracy: 81 (Needs to be more consistent with his mechanics, can force too many balls)
Pocket Presence/Mobility: 84 (Good pocket awareness, quick feet in the pocket, good base)
Running/Scrambling Ability: 79 (Not a big play threat but can hurt teams with legs, decisive runner)
Intangibles: 88 (Leader, good bloodlines, recruiting process raised some eyebrows, quiet)
Upside: 5
Overall Grade: 4

GRADE KEY

90-100 – Elite/Exceptional: Skill set is rare and gives prospect ability to dominate
80-89 – Very Good/Outstanding: Skill set is a significant strength
70-79 – Average: Skill set is solid, not a significant weakness
60-69 – Below Average: Skill set is not a strength for this player and could become a liability
50-59 – Very Poor: Prospect does not possess this trait and it is a definite liability

OVERALL/UPSIDE GRADE KEY

5 – Elite: Player is one of the best players at his position nationally, potentially dominant
4 – Very Good/Outstanding: Player is a potential standout and starter, could also play early
3 – Solid: Player is a potential contributor, could eventually start down the road
2 – Below Average: Player does not possess the talent to be a significant contributor
1 – Poor: Let’s be honest, Notre Dame is not going to bring in anyone with a one!!
 

JeremyND07

MR.PATIENT
Messages
1,755
Reaction score
54
Run/Pass whatever he does first I just pray that we do not have another year like last where we have 3 different QB's in the rotation! I believe the whole 2 QB system cost us at least 2 losses this past year!
 

FightingIrishLover7

All troll, no substance
Messages
12,703
Reaction score
7,514
I never said he wasnt, I love Everett's highlight film because he was a pass first QB... I never liked Devin Fuller as a QB because he was a run first QB.
Ah I see... I was on my phone, must have skimmed wrong. My bad, but I agree that Kiel and Ev are better than Fuller for sure.
 

NDhoosier

Well-known member
Messages
2,706
Reaction score
346
I think Golson will start next year if that clears things up a little. But in my original post you quoted. I was simply responding to the allegation (sarcastically or not) that Kiel couldnt run and therefore wouldnt be successful in Kelly's system.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Run/Pass whatever he does first I just pray that we do not have another year like last where we have 3 different QB's in the rotation! I believe the whole 2 QB system cost us at least 2 losses this past year!

I didn't know we lost seven games last year - because not having the right qb with the skill set or the experience cost us five. We were in every one of them with our defense, until the offense (weak qb play usually) gave the game away.
 

DaBLKIrishman

New member
Messages
99
Reaction score
4
I think Gunner will surprise a lot of people with his athleticism and mobility. Seen him the summer of his Junior year at a 7 on 7 tourney at the Colts practice facility and he was very nimble on his rollouts and had excellent footwork for a high school kid.
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,167
Reaction score
6,450
think you need to actually be chased to find out a QB's true athletic ability, but i get your point.
 

DaBLKIrishman

New member
Messages
99
Reaction score
4
Well from a coaching standpoint you can gage a players athleticism in drills rather easily. The actual game just puts it on display.
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,167
Reaction score
6,450
i've seen guys look terrible in drills and kill it on the field...drills can only show you so much, but in the line of fire you find out a kid's true level of athleticism.
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,959
Reaction score
6,451
My opinion is lacking in expertise, but what I saw of Kiel he looked plenty athletic enough. Although Kelly and Holgerson [WVU] are different spreads [though with a lot of similarities] both offensive geniuses want the same sort of quarterback: throw first, good head for understanding all of the playbook, the defenses alterations, and the coach's own tendencies, a strong arm with excellent intermediate accuracy, and enough athleticism to run if required. Holgerson had exactly that guy in Geno Smith, which is how they could put up 70 on Clemson.

I believe that although Gunner is not exactly like Geno, he's plenty talented enough in all these areas that when the mental part of the above is accomplished, the physical part will shine brightly. I see no fundamental reason why Kiel cannot be outstanding in Kelly's offense if he can master the mental subtleties and has the "nerve". That seems a matter of "when" not "if".
 

DaBLKIrishman

New member
Messages
99
Reaction score
4
My opinion is lacking in expertise, but what I saw of Kiel he looked plenty athletic enough. Although Kelly and Holgerson [WVU] are different spreads [though with a lot of similarities] both offensive geniuses want the same sort of quarterback: throw first, good head for understanding all of the playbook, the defenses alterations, and the coach's own tendencies, a strong arm with excellent intermediate accuracy, and enough athleticism to run if required. Holgerson had exactly that guy in Geno Smith, which is how they could put up 70 on Clemson.

I believe that although Gunner is not exactly like Geno, he's plenty talented enough in all these areas that when the mental part of the above is accomplished, the physical part will shine brightly. I see no fundamental reason why Kiel cannot be outstanding in Kelly's offense if he can master the mental subtleties and has the "nerve". That seems a matter of "when" not "if".

Well put!
 

DaBLKIrishman

New member
Messages
99
Reaction score
4
i've seen guys look terrible in drills and kill it on the field...drills can only show you so much, but in the line of fire you find out a kid's true level of athleticism.

I agree drills only show you so much but you can always tell who's athletic and who's not in them. That's all I'm saying. If drills and things like 7 on 7 where so irrelevant then there wouldn't be any combines and pro days for athletes. Bottom line Gunner is athletic enough to run the spread.
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,167
Reaction score
6,450
I agree drills only show you so much but you can always tell who's athletic and who's not in them. That's all I'm saying. If drills and things like 7 on 7 where so irrelevant then there wouldn't be any combines and pro days for athletes. Bottom line Gunner is athletic enough to run the spread.

gotcha...i agree. personally i think you find more out about a kid in a 7 on 7 than drills, QB's are a little questionable though since they're not pressured, but skill positions definitely. Greenberry and tee are perfect examples. not gonna wow ya with the combine numbers, but on the field they're special.
 
Top