Recruiting: It is not all about the stars!!!

[jonesman]

I have been watching all the people on here going all bonkers in the last few weeks worrying about if we are getting this 4 star or that 5 star stud. Well, there are plenty of guys who will come to ND at 3 star recruits and become darn good even great football players. Let me give you a few names to think about from the last ten years who were 3-star recruits on Rivals. Since most of us follow Rivals the most, I chose those rankings.

2003-
The Shark: Yes, Jeff S. was a lowly 3-star who tore up the defenses with his receiving skills at ND.
C. Ndukwe: He must have been pretty good because he has been in the NFL for several years now.

 

[koonja]

I have been watching all the people on here going all bonkers in the last few weeks worrying about if we are getting this 4 star or that 5 star stud. Well, there are plenty of guys who will come to ND at 3 star recruits and become darn good even great football players. Let me give you a few names to think about from the last ten years who were 3-star recruits on Rivals. Since most of us follow Rivals the most, I chose those rankings.

2003-
The Shark: Yes, Jeff S. was a lowly 3-star who tore up the defenses with his receiving skills at ND.
C. Ndukwe: He must have been pretty good because he has been in the NFL for several years now.

Fans LOVE to make the exception the rule. The honest truth is losing STUDS like Darby, Decker, Perkins, whiffing on Keil hurts BAD. The fact is stars matter. Sure, anybody can slap a 3-star on a recruit and misjudge how they'll produce at the next level, but don't tell me it doesn't matter. Alabama had the #1 class according to scout.com exactly 4 years ago. Coincidence? If you wanna try to do that, sure.

 

[ThePiombino]

Congratulations- you came up with two 3-stars over the past 10 years who turned out to be better than their rating. I feel much better about things now.

 

[notredomer23]

Alabama started 8 3 stars.

 

[Grahambo]

Congratulations- you came up with two 3-stars over the past 10 years who turned out to be better than their rating. I feel much better about things now.

Really? I mean seriously, somebody attempts to soothe the board and try to make the crazies feel a little bit better by bringing up how it's not all about the stars, which is true, and you gotta go around sounding like a sarcastic *$$.

Most people on this board need to grow the hell up.

Show a little common decency and respect before you attempt to make someone feel like an idiot.

 

[koonja]

Alabama started 8 3 stars.

Means nothing. Some fly under the radar, as I'm sure some of the 8 did for Alabama. However, it's plain stupid to try to argue that in general, 3-stars have the same chance of being great in college as 5-stars.

 

[Who'saWildManNow]

Refer to my old thread.. Some good convo about this topic in there.

http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football-recruiting/60430-3-stars-conversation.html

 

[koonja]

Some Taurus's end up running longer than a comparable Mercedes, too. Doesn't mean they're a higher quality car. You can lay your hat on the exceptions all you want, but you'll miss out in any game of odds.

Offer lists are probably the best indication of talent. And 5-stars almost always have offer lists WAY better than 3-stars. But sure, you'll find an exception just like anything else in life.

 

[Grahambo]

Some Taurus's end up running longer than a comparable Mercedes, too. Doesn't mean they're a higher quality car. You can lay your hat on the exceptions all you want, but you'll miss out in any game of odds.

Offer lists are probably the best indication of talent. And 5-stars almost always have offer lists WAY better than 3-stars. But sure, you'll find an exception just like anything else in life.

That's usually where you should start IMO.

 

[BobD]

Many fans act like they wear panties instead of boxers when it comes to recruiting but to say it's not all about the stars is like saying that 1st round draft choices aren't important in the NFL.

 

[jonesman]

Sorry guys, lost connection. Here we go.
I have been watching all the people on here going all bonkers in the last few weeks worrying about if we are getting this 4 star or that 5 star stud. Well, there are plenty of guys who will come to ND at 3 star recruits and become darn good even great football players. Let me give you a few names to think about from the last ten years who were 3-star recruits on Rivals. Since most of us follow Rivals the most, I chose those rankings.

2003-
The Shark: Yes, Jeff S. was a lowly 3-star who tore up the defenses with his receiving skills at ND.
C. Ndukwe: He must have been pretty good because he has been in the NFL for several years now.
Ryan Harris: All-American tackle who has been at Denver for several years.
John Carlson: NFL caliber TE who was a lowly 3-star from IN. Playing in the NFL.
2004-
D. Walker: RB who was solid at ND for 3 years.
Maurice Crum: Solid LB who tackled everything for 3 years.
2005-
David Grimes: Undersized WR who caught everything thrown his way.
David Bruton: Great Safety who I watched starting for an NFL playoff team this weekend.
2006-
Sergio Brown: Great Safety playing for one of the best NFL teams in history.
2007-
Taylor Dever: Multi year starter at RT with good chance to play NFL ball.
Ian Williams: Very solid NT was multi year starter.
2009-
Tyler Eiffert: Anyone heard of this TE?? Yes. The best in college football in my opinion.
Robbie Toma: A throw in receiver with Manti who catches every ball thrown his way. I will take an effort guy like him every year.
2010-
Austin Collinsworth: Probably got a third star because of his dad. Yet, he tackles everything coming his way.
Bennet Jackson: Speedy special teamer who will be solid DB.
2011-
Everett Golson: He will not be playing like a 3-star next season.
Jarrett Grace: Called werewolf by coaches.
Hounsell: Already getting reps on DL as a freshman.
Hanratty: 2nd team guard passing upper class 4 stars.
Springman: Beastly NG with giant size.

So, yes folks there are plenty of really really good football players that are 3 stars. Let our staff get the guys. Kelly knows he must get some elite 4 and 5 star dudes, but you have to get those 3 stars too.
Finally, I could give you are really long list of 4 star kids who FLOPPED. We have some seniors right now who never saw the field.
Stay calm. Recruiting will work out fine. It is nice to see that we must work hard to stay under the 85 number. I remember when Weiss was chasing a full roster due to Ty's complete lack of effort.

 

[jonesman]

Hey piombino,
Try that list on for size!!

 

[General Colon Bowel]

This is a pointless thread. No one doubts that some of these 3 stars we're bringing in will be good players. It's just more likely that a player will be great if they're a 4 or 5 star. The end.

 

[koonja]

It's easy to go across the country and list 3-star players who were great in college. It'd take years to list all of the 4/5-star guys that became stars.

 

[notredomer23]

Means nothing. Some fly under the radar, as I'm sure some of the 8 did for Alabama. However, it's plain stupid to try to argue that in general, 3-stars have the same chance of being great in college as 5-stars.

Obviously but it's also plain stupid to think you only need 4 and 5 stars to win. It has nothing to do with how highly rated you are if you're not motivated or have someone who can develop that talent. And you say it means nothing that the national champs started 8 3 stars but if notre dame started 8 3 stars it would be the end of the world am I right?

 

[Grahambo]

Many fans act like they wear panties instead of boxers when it comes to recruiting but to say it's not all about the stars is like saying that 1st round draft choices aren't important in the NFL.

 

[koonja]

Many fans act like they wear panties instead of boxers when it comes to recruiting but to say it's not all about the stars is like saying that 1st round draft choices aren't important in the NFL.

Boom. Here's the truth. Reps.

 

[BleedBlueGold]

Great list of 3stars. Thanks for the effort. Now can you let me know how many championships ND has in the last ten years?

 

[koonja]

Fans love the exceptions.

 

[koonja]

Sorry guys, lost connection. Here we go.
I have been watching all the people on here going all bonkers in the last few weeks worrying about if we are getting this 4 star or that 5 star stud. Well, there are plenty of guys who will come to ND at 3 star recruits and become darn good even great football players. Let me give you a few names to think about from the last ten years who were 3-star recruits on Rivals. Since most of us follow Rivals the most, I chose those rankings.

2003-
The Shark: Yes, Jeff S. was a lowly 3-star who tore up the defenses with his receiving skills at ND.
C. Ndukwe: He must have been pretty good because he has been in the NFL for several years now.
Ryan Harris: All-American tackle who has been at Denver for several years.
John Carlson: NFL caliber TE who was a lowly 3-star from IN. Playing in the NFL.
2004-
D. Walker: RB who was solid at ND for 3 years.
Maurice Crum: Solid LB who tackled everything for 3 years.
2005-
David Grimes: Undersized WR who caught everything thrown his way.
David Bruton: Great Safety who I watched starting for an NFL playoff team this weekend.
2006-
Sergio Brown: Great Safety playing for one of the best NFL teams in history.
2007-
Taylor Dever: Multi year starter at RT with good chance to play NFL ball.
Ian Williams: Very solid NT was multi year starter.
2009-
Tyler Eiffert: Anyone heard of this TE?? Yes. The best in college football in my opinion.
Robbie Toma: A throw in receiver with Manti who catches every ball thrown his way. I will take an effort guy like him every year.
2010-
Austin Collinsworth: Probably got a third star because of his dad. Yet, he tackles everything coming his way.
Bennet Jackson: Speedy special teamer who will be solid DB.
2011-
Everett Golson: He will not be playing like a 3-star next season.
Jarrett Grace: Called werewolf by coaches.
Hounsell: Already getting reps on DL as a freshman.
Hanratty: 2nd team guard passing upper class 4 stars.
Springman: Beastly NG with giant size.

So, yes folks there are plenty of really really good football players that are 3 stars. Let our staff get the guys. Kelly knows he must get some elite 4 and 5 star dudes, but you have to get those 3 stars too.
Finally, I could give you are really long list of 4 star kids who FLOPPED. We have some seniors right now who never saw the field.
Stay calm. Recruiting will work out fine. It is nice to see that we must work hard to stay under the 85 number. I remember when Weiss was chasing a full roster due to Ty's complete lack of effort.

Define great? Yeah, a lot of these guys started for a few years at ND, but the only guys that I see that sniff starting lineup at USC, Texas, Bama above are Shark, Carlson, Eifert, Mo Crum, MAYBE Bruton?

 

[Grahambo]

Fans love the exceptions.

Just having some fun with it.

 

[IrishinSyria]

What it's really about is depth. 3* and up can all play ball at an elite level (maybe even some under that too who flew under the radar or developed late.)

The problem is, it's almost impossible to predict how an 18 year old is going to adopt to the college lifestyle/game. That's why people who predict some new recruit (3,4, or 5*) is going to come in and save our season next year ARE FOOLING THEMSELVES.

Over time, programs that recruit more highly ranked prospects will do better than programs that don't unless they play highly favorable schedules (Boise St, Alabama) or they have an absolute stud who elevates the entire team (Boise St, Stanford.)

So basically, I agree that it's not worth getting your panties in a bunch over any one recruit. But if there's one take away from the Ty era, it's that recruiting does matter. It's essential for the long-term success of the program that we a) consistently have good recruiting classes and b) that we don't strike out on any given position two years (at an absolute maximum) in a row.

 

[koonja]

For those of you who don't care for stars, I wonder how you'd feel if it were CJ Proise, John Turner, and Scott Daly that decomiited instead of Taylor Decker, David Boom Perkins and Ronald Darby.

 

[BobD]

Jamarcus yells "Where's my cough syrup?"

Ryan says "I don't know, I swear!."

 

[ThePiombino]

This is a pointless thread. No one doubts that some of these 3 stars we're bringing in will be good players. It's just more likely that a player will be great if they're a 4 or 5 star. The end.

This

/endpointlessthread

And by the way, if you honestly NEED this thread in order to feel good about this year's class, don't you think there is something wrong?

 

[anarin]

Great list of 3stars. Thanks for the effort. Now can you let me know how many championships ND has in the last ten years?

Great way to bash the home team. How many Championships does The U have in the last 10 years. They stayed in the top 10 in recruiting with 4 and 5 stars every season since their national championship game (which was exactly 10 years ago, which is outside of the the last 10 years recruiting).

hmmmmm????

 

[enrico514]

Stars may or may not be what recruiting is all about BUT...

... we already have two 5 star players on campus !!!

In recruiting you win some and you will lose some. This staff will win more than they will lose when all is said and done. Hell, they somehow got two studs that signed with other teams!

 

[irishtrinity]

I wonder how many 5 stars won the heisman 4 stars etc... If you have a few 2, and three stars that won it i'd like to hear of them..

 

[OlympiaIrishFan]

Boise state proves this year in and year out on 3 star players

The only 3 star I have issues with is Tommy turnover. I don't want to see him ever again lineup behind center unless it is the third or fourth option

 

[phgreek]

Stars matter...recruiting matters...specific kids lost over a coaching change could matter. Really depends on last year and next year...sounds funny huh?

IMHO if you go 2 years w/o a 4* or better...thats cause for concern.

Most of the time the concern is dealt with by developing a 3*...or moving someone from another position.

Life is better when you have a hit on a 4* atleast every other year...again just my OPinion.