Rumor: Ending Series With Michigan

IrishLax

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I would not be calling Michigan "Pussies" since they have beaten us 3 years in a row. So to call them that is just ridiculous.

Are you saying they can't be victorious pussies?

Because they are both. They are our daddies right now on the football field. Their whole athletic department is also made up of pussies and always has been. That's why they're going to 8 home games a year. That's why they quit playing us after we beat them a century ago. That's why they stopped playing us after we beat them the second time. That's why we're likely getting dropped now.

And that's why their lax team is ducking us despite being one of the closest geographical opponents they could possibly play and us trying to schedule them.

So they DEFINITELY own us right now on the football field. They also have pansies for leadership.
 

laservet

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I wish we could have 8 home games every year like scUM does.

?? They have six home games in 2012. I believe the opening game against Alabama at Cowboy stadium pays both teams home game money, since neither could afford to lose the home game money.
 

IrishLax

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Looks most likely like the series will end given that Dave Brandon publicly said that he wants more home games.

I might go to the last game in 2016 in south bend.

Our rivalry's past is full of a lot of controversial stuff. Read the book "Natural Enemies". It's all about the history of Michigan-ND. Great read. This would be the third time that the Michigan athletic department gives ND the finger.

One of many, many reasons ND will never ever join the Big Ten.
 

ShamrockOnHelmet

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and that stadium is just one gigantic toilet bowl anyway. Plus, Ann Arbor is a whorebag.

I know you're being 'fan-ish' with your comment, but its also a good serious point that I wish the national media would acknowledge. Ann Arbor is the armpit of the state (and that is really saying something in Michigan), and the stadium is trash and has been for 30 years, even after their renovations. Honestly, I have no idea how Michigan even maintains a noteworthy program.
 

Wolverine1997

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And that's why their lax team is ducking us despite being one of the closest geographical opponents they could possibly play and us trying to schedule them.

That's called being smart, actually. No **** ND would destroy Michigan if they played lacrosse this coming season, Michigan is making the transition from MCLA to NCAA. While ND has an established NCAA-level program.

Just like penn state will get destroyed by each team in the B1G hockey conference in 2013-14, when their program gets brought up.

It's not like ND is in the ECAC and Michigan is refusing to play them. They have to play Denver IN Denver this season. It's gonna be a bumpy ride for a few years but if the program follows the model of the Men's Soccer program and wins the conference/conference tournament by their 10th season as a varsity sport, it will be a success.

Sorry about the thread hijack. IrishLax, PM me your response or post here. Doesn't matter to me, I'm just trying to be courteous.
 

NDOM

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?? They have six home games in 2012. I believe the opening game against Alabama at Cowboy stadium pays both teams home game money, since neither could afford to lose the home game money.

yes you are correct sir. next year they have only 6 home games. but after that they have 4 years in a row with 8 home games not to mention the past 5 out of the last 7 years they have had 8 homes games per year. PATHETIC! and people wonder why Michigan has so many football wins compared to everyone else......homefield advantage much?
 

Wolverine1997

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I know you're being 'fan-ish' with your comment, but its also a good serious point that I wish the national media would acknowledge. Ann Arbor is the armpit of the state (and that is really saying something in Michigan), and the stadium is trash and has been for 30 years, even after their renovations. Honestly, I have no idea how Michigan even maintains a noteworthy program.

When I went to ND Stadium for the game in 2010, I felt like I should have had an afro since that stadium is so stuck in the past.

Please, for the love of God, get some video screens in there. And maybe even some FieldTurf.
 
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johnnykillz

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When I went to ND Stadium for the game in 2010, I felt like I should have had an afro since that stadium is so stuck in the past.

Please, for the love of God, get some video screens in there. And maybe even some FieldTurf.

I can't agree more with you bud...

Though I'd like to argue with you. Lol. I normally do.
 

returnofthemack

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I don't think there's anything wrong with the scUM stadium, and their new video boards are pretty nice. If their fans weren't such huge dbags, I probably wouldn't hate them at all.

and wolverine1997, i'm so sorry our stadium doesn't meet your godly standards. Maybe someday, our program can become a powerhouse like yours.
 

returnofthemack

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Yeah, I can already feel my blood pressure rising reading these posts and looking at the stupid scUM pictures. I'm going to extricate myself from this before I say something that will get me banned.
 

NDOM

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When I went to ND Stadium for the game in 2010, I felt like I should have had an afro since that stadium is so stuck in the past.

Please, for the love of God, get some video screens in there. And maybe even some FieldTurf.

Out of all the Michigan fans on this site, I must say that Wolverine1997 has been very respectable to all of us. He's welcome here from my standpoint and he actually (for a Michigan fan) has some pretty intelligent things to say.

All the other Michigan fans can go back home. I don't want any more on here than there has to be. LOL
 

Wolverine1997

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I just don't understand it. ND certainly has the $ to make big renovations to their stadium. Some rich family donated that hockey arena to you guys.

My only guess is keeping the classic, old-style look of ND stadium. I was against Michigan getting rid of their OLD old scoreboards after the 1997 season (the solid blue one with nothing but the score, clock and timeouts) and then I walked in and could see replays and I forgot all about that old relic.

Say what you want about Michigan's facilities in the past, but Dave Brandon has brought the athletic campus back to life with all of these new renovations and the new lacrosse stadium on the horizon.

I will say It's nice to see ND showing a commitment to hockey finally with that new arena. And let's be honest, they needed it as does Michigan in about 10 years I'd expect.
 

IrishInFl

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I just don't understand it. ND certainly has the $ to make big renovations to their stadium. Some rich family donated that hockey arena to you guys.

My only guess is keeping the classic, old-style look of ND stadium. I was against Michigan getting rid of their OLD old scoreboards after the 1997 season (the solid blue one with nothing but the score, clock and timeouts) and then I walked in and could see replays and I forgot all about that old relic.

Say what you want about Michigan's facilities in the past, but Dave Brandon has brought the athletic campus back to life with all of these new renovations and the new lacrosse stadium on the horizon.

I will say It's nice to see ND showing a commitment to hockey finally with that new arena. And let's be honest, they needed it as does Michigan in about 10 years I'd expect.

We (Minnesota-Duluth) got a new arena last season. If Notre Dame's is anything like ours, the fans will have a great game experience.
 

Wolverine1997

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We (Minnesota-Duluth) got a new arena last season. If Notre Dame's is anything like ours, the fans will have a great game experience.

Every time I read or hear the name.....UMD....I feel like throwing up. Caused me to lose so much sleep.

Michigan is the greatest program of all-time in college hockey, but that game will hurt forever.

Speaking of hockey barns, highly recommend a trip to Yost someday. The old barn's time is running out. Just DO NOT walk or sit near the student section if you plan to wear opposing colors.
 

IrishLax

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That's called being smart, actually. No **** ND would destroy Michigan if they played lacrosse this coming season, Michigan is making the transition from MCLA to NCAA. While ND has an established NCAA-level program.

First let me start by saying I know more about Michigan lacrosse than you do unless you're a current or former member of the team. You don't know me, but my "fun" job of the last couple years has been as a freelance writer for Inside Lacrosse/ESPN/US Lacrosse/etc. I've linked my articles/live blogs/etc. on here before if you want to go look. My primary responsibility was covering lax in the midwest. And I've gone so far as to having to correct your "experts" on MGoBlog numerous times on their posts. Because they're beyond ignorant. "Michigan isn't going to get recruits from Canada in the near future." LOL one of your best commits is a top Canadian talent. "There aren't even many good Canada players, there's only :
  • " And they left off Mark-freaking-Matthews. Just makes you want to facepalm.

    So yes, you're right Michigan would get killed. SO WHAT??? They're not going to make a run at tournament if you're already accepting that they'd get killed by Notre DAme. So why on earth does it matter at all if they get killed? Explain to me how you "build" a program by ducking tough games? While you're thinking, let me explain to you how teams whose athletic department isn't full of egotistical pussies who don't want to see a scoreboard that reads ND (a lot) MICH (a little) all built their programs by playing tough teams.

    Long before Michigan decided to get a DI program there was a conference called the Great Western Lacrosse League. In it were ND, Denver, Ohio State, Air Force, Quinnipiac, and Bellarmine. Most of those schools, besides Notre Dame, are now in the ECAC and that all came about because of the Big East adding lacrosse.

    Anyways... Notre Dame, Denver, Air Force, Ohio State, etc. all sucked at lacrosse. We weren't even fully funded and most of the GWLL teams still aren't. But rather than just play within our conference + play as many patsies as possible "build" our program... we did it the right way. We scheduled ACC opponents, Hopkins, Syracuse, Georgetown, etc. year in and year out. Usually we got slaughtered. Occasionally we would win. And by we I mean ALL of the schools. It wasn't just ND paying $$$ to travel all the way out to play UVa with UVa not making a return trip... even little 'ol Quinnipiac had the stones to do the same thing. Because that's how lacrosse works. There are no Boise States in lacrosse... you HAVE to beat the big boys to get any respect and have any chance of progressing.

    None of these teams were worried about what it would look like adding another L to their record. Why? Because unlike football, in lacrosse Ws and Ls aren't the end all be all. The RPI and wins versus high RPI teams are what matter... which is why a 15-0 ND team once got a #7 seed and a 10-2 ND got a #4 seed last year. And why a 6-6 Johns Hopkins team made the playoffs 2 years ago as an at large.

    So ideally you want to schedule as many Goliath's as possible because there is really nothing to lose by losing to a really good team, but there is soooooo much to gain. That's why you see all the perennial powers build schedules the way they do... and why you also see teams like Navy try DESPERATELY to schedule games against Syracuse, Hopkins, etc. because even though there is a 95% chance they lose and/or get slaughtered it is good for the program. The fact that ND would even try to schedule Michigan is a courtesy to them... low travel cost, opportunity to make their team better, and an opportunity for a quality win. Playing Michigan does nothing but hurt ND's strength of schedule which is HUGE for seeding. But Michigan doesn't get it. Because they don't get how lacrosse works. And/or they're pussies.

    It's not like ND is in the ECAC and Michigan is refusing to play them. They have to play Denver IN Denver this season. It's gonna be a bumpy ride for a few years but if the program follows the model of the Men's Soccer program and wins the conference/conference tournament by their 10th season as a varsity sport, it will be a success.

    OOOOOO you have to play Denver IN Denver!?!? I mean seriously... Denver has been an average team at best for a very long time and only had a good run last season. Lots of teams have had a "run" and then gone back to being very average. Like Delaware. And UMASS. And so many others. To be fair, I've been there and that altitude change does numbers on you. It's a very hard place to play. Holy heck do you run out of breath quickly and if you're not deep at the midfield you're SCREWED. I also know that Denver was pretty good last year. But they weren't great. They're an above average team that's coached pretty well because Tierney is a disciplinarian and was underestimated by a very overrated Johns Hopkins team. The ironic part is that Tierney is doing it mostly with Munro's guys yet getting all the credit. But I digress.

    But really... you're making my point for me. you already have to travel a bunch, why would you pass on a chance at a quality win (or at least a good learning opportunity) that is nearby and would save you money? No other lacrosse team in the NCAA would pass on that chance. Except Michigan... because they have an ego that they don't want to get hurt.

    That ego is why they dropped ND football from the schedule for the first time. Why they dropped them the second time. And why they're ducking us now. See how it's all related? ;)
 

phork

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That is 10000000000000% accurate. Michigan has THE worst fans ever and that stadium is just one gigantic toilet bowl anyway. Plus, Ann Arbor is a whorebag.

You do know that ND Stadium was modelled after UM Stadium right?
 

Wolverine1997

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First let me start by saying I know more about Michigan lacrosse than you do unless you're a current or former member of the team. You don't know me, but my "fun" job of the last couple years has been as a freelance writer for Inside Lacrosse/ESPN/US Lacrosse/etc. I've linked my articles/live blogs/etc. on here before if you want to go look. My primary responsibility was covering lax in the midwest. And I've gone so far as to having to correct your "experts" on MGoBlog numerous times on their posts. Because they're beyond ignorant. "Michigan isn't going to get recruits from Canada in the near future." LOL one of your best commits is a top Canadian talent. "There aren't even many good Canada players, there's only :
  • " And they left off Mark-freaking-Matthews. Just makes you want to facepalm.

    So yes, you're right Michigan would get killed. SO WHAT??? They're not going to make a run at tournament if you're already accepting that they'd get killed by Notre DAme. So why on earth does it matter at all if they get killed? Explain to me how you "build" a program by ducking tough games? While you're thinking, let me explain to you how teams whose athletic department isn't full of egotistical pussies who don't want to see a scoreboard that reads ND (a lot) MICH (a little) all built their programs by playing tough teams.

    Long before Michigan decided to get a DI program there was a conference called the Great Western Lacrosse League. In it were ND, Denver, Ohio State, Air Force, Quinnipiac, and Bellarmine. Most of those schools, besides Notre Dame, are now in the ECAC and that all came about because of the Big East adding lacrosse.

    Anyways... Notre Dame, Denver, Air Force, Ohio State, etc. all sucked at lacrosse. We weren't even fully funded and most of the GWLL teams still aren't. But rather than just play within our conference + play as many patsies as possible "build" our program... we did it the right way. We scheduled ACC opponents, Hopkins, Syracuse, Georgetown, etc. year in and year out. Usually we got slaughtered. Occasionally we would win. And by we I mean ALL of the schools. It wasn't just ND paying $$$ to travel all the way out to play UVa with UVa not making a return trip... even little 'ol Quinnipiac had the stones to do the same thing. Because that's how lacrosse works. There are no Boise States in lacrosse... you HAVE to beat the big boys to get any respect and have any chance of progressing.

    None of these teams were worried about what it would look like adding another L to their record. Why? Because unlike football, in lacrosse Ws and Ls aren't the end all be all. The RPI and wins versus high RPI teams are what matter... which is why a 15-0 ND team once got a #7 seed and a 10-2 ND got a #4 seed last year. And why a 6-6 Johns Hopkins team made the playoffs 2 years ago as an at large.

    So ideally you want to schedule as many Goliath's as possible because there is really nothing to lose by losing to a really good team, but there is soooooo much to gain. That's why you see all the perennial powers build schedules the way they do... and why you also see teams like Navy try DESPERATELY to schedule games against Syracuse, Hopkins, etc. because even though there is a 95% chance they lose and/or get slaughtered it is good for the program. The fact that ND would even try to schedule Michigan is a courtesy to them... low travel cost, opportunity to make their team better, and an opportunity for a quality win. Playing Michigan does nothing but hurt ND's strength of schedule which is HUGE for seeding. But Michigan doesn't get it. Because they don't get how lacrosse works. And/or they're pussies.



    OOOOOO you have to play Denver IN Denver!?!? I mean seriously... Denver has been an average team at best for a very long time and only had a good run last season. Lots of teams have had a "run" and then gone back to being very average. Like Delaware. And UMASS. And so many others. To be fair, I've been there and that altitude change does numbers on you. It's a very hard place to play. Holy heck do you run out of breath quickly and if you're not deep at the midfield you're SCREWED. I also know that Denver was pretty good last year. But they weren't great. They're an above average team that's coached pretty well because Tierney is a disciplinarian and was underestimated by a very overrated Johns Hopkins team. The ironic part is that Tierney is doing it mostly with Munro's guys yet getting all the credit. But I digress.

    But really... you're making my point for me. you already have to travel a bunch, why would you pass on a chance at a quality win (or at least a good learning opportunity) that is nearby and would save you money? No other lacrosse team in the NCAA would pass on that chance. Except Michigan... because they have an ego that they don't want to get hurt.

    That ego is why they dropped ND football from the schedule for the first time. Why they dropped them the second time. And why they're ducking us now. See how it's all related? ;)


  • Now that you finished your novel. I can see where you come from on the first and second time Michigan told ND to shove it, because in 1909 Michigan lost and the series went on hiatus, and then in 1943 Michigan lost and the series went on a hiatus. But Michigan has beat ND 3 straight times, 5 out of the last 6. So I don't know if you think Michigan fears ND or what. Sure, It's a rivalry and a loss early would suck but you guys have a losing record against rich rod. So it's definitely not fearing ND, it's fearing that playing too many tough games early on would ruin the shot at a national title.

    And as much as you guys HATE to hear this, and I might get flamed like hell for this, you have been wallowing in mediocrity for decades now.

    The ND game has always been a game where records and preseason rankings don't matter, so it's hard to predict what happens.

    Having to play a tough Pac-12 team one week and then play in a tough rivalry game, would be stupid nowadays. That would mean there would only be two "cupcake" games on the schedule. Dave Brandon publicly said he wants more home games to make more money.

    I presume that the B1G will try to go 4-4 or as far home-road conference games are concerned. Which means depending on the Challenge schedule, you could have a maximum of 8 games.

    Makes financial sense. When you have the largest stadium in North America and have sold out every game since 1975 no matter the opponent, it pays to have 7-8 home games.

    I've grown bored of the rivalry really. Same story every year. The almighty notre dame is favored to beat Michigan. How has that worked out for ya?

    As for lacrosse, Michigan plays two games in Denver this year. One against DU and a "neutral" site game against Air Force. Plus, Michigan gets to showcase the program and set the attendance record for most people at a lacrosse game on April 14th at Michigan Stadium, when they play ohio before the football spring game.

    Right now the program still has to wait a couple years because the plans for Elbel Field (new lax stadium) are still being developed. For now, their home games are at Michigan Stadium.
 
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johnnykillz

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Rough post man...

But truth. In your eyes I can agree what you have written. Sometimes I feel like the world has passed ND by.

I'm really bummed about this season and really hope for a recruiting spark. We have a really decent class right now but I'm petrified in terror well lose tay-b or Darby... Then again, a solid last years defensive class should keep us in the ball game with anyone for years to come.

I will miss our rivalry as much as I hate Michigan week, I pull for them consistently against Sparta and tpOSU... I really only cheer for them to lose against FCS scrubs for playing them. Although app state hardly quals as scrub.
 

Wolverine1997

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Rough post man...

But truth. In your eyes I can agree what you have written. Sometimes I feel like the world has passed ND by.

I'm really bummed about this season and really hope for a recruiting spark. We have a really decent class right now but I'm petrified in terror well lose tay-b or Darby... Then again, a solid last years defensive class should keep us in the ball game with anyone for years to come.

I will miss our rivalry as much as I hate Michigan week, I pull for them consistently against Sparta and tpOSU... I really only cheer for them to lose against FCS scrubs for playing them. Although app state hardly quals as scrub.

I'm already getting messages from people on that post. I'm glad you at least recognize it.

I don't like to brag or come off like that in posts on here, but in this case, I had to be a little snippy.

People that are all gung-ho about the game going away, will look back ten years down the line and say "damn I miss that annual game". Just like how the Texas and Texas A&M fans will realize in, oh, about a year that they need eachother.
 

IrishLax

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Now that you finished your novel. I can see where you come from on the first and second time Michigan told ND to shove it, because in 1909 Michigan lost and the series went on hiatus, and then in 1943 Michigan lost and the series went on a hiatus. But Michigan has beat ND 3 straight times, 5 out of the last 6. So I don't know if you think Michigan fears ND or what. Sure, It's a rivalry and a loss early would suck but you guys have a losing record against rich rod. So it's definitely not fearing ND, it's fearing that playing too many tough games early on would ruin the shot at a national title.

With regards to football, I 100% agree with you. And I've said that in previous posts. There is NO WAY Michigan "fears" ND. My novel was about lax.

And as much as you guys HATE to hear this, and I might get flamed like hell for this, you have been wallowing in mediocrity for decades now.

And Michigan hasn't? One half of a championship in the last 50+ years? One more BCS appearance than ND (coming this year where you back-doored your way in thanks to not playing in the conference championship)? I mean seriously... yeah, ND has been mediocre recently... but Michigan fans painting ND as irrelevant need to look in the mirror.

The ND game has always been a game where records and preseason rankings don't matter, so it's hard to predict what happens.

Having to play a tough Pac-12 team one week and then play in a tough rivalry game, would be stupid nowadays. That would mean there would only be two "cupcake" games on the schedule. Dave Brandon publicly said he wants more home games to make more money.

I presume that the B1G will try to go 4-4 or as far home-road conference games are concerned. Which means depending on the Challenge schedule, you could have a maximum of 8 games.

Makes financial sense. When you have the largest stadium in North America and have sold out every game since 1975 no matter the opponent, it pays to have 7-8 home games.

I've grown bored of the rivalry really. Same story every year. The almighty notre dame is favored to beat Michigan. How has that worked out for ya?

Agree with all of this 100%. Michigan is making a smart move and I wish ND had been smart enough to make this move earlier. Front loaded schedules are beyond silly.

As for lacrosse, Michigan plays two games in Denver this year. One against DU and a "neutral" site game against Air Force. Plus, Michigan gets to showcase the program and set the attendance record for most people at a lacrosse game on April 14th at Michigan Stadium, when they play ohio before the football spring game.

Right now the program still has to wait a couple years because the plans for Elbel Field (new lax stadium) are still being developed. For now, their home games are at Michigan Stadium.

So what? I covered the game when ND played Ohio State before their spring football game and it broke the record. It's not a "showcase" in the least... doesn't get play on TV (maybe a web stream like most programs do for all games) and gets a normal live blog from yours truly or someone else.

I don't see how this is relevant to Michigan pussing out of a game against ND for simple fact that they don't want their egos to be hurt. There is no logical reason to duck the game except for that. It's not "smart" like you said earlier... and that's what you should be trying to defend.
 

phork

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Yah if you take the first 8 victories in the UM/ND rivalry, the records are 15-15-1. So really, you have just caught back up to us. Oh we can't discount those victories? Then don't discount all our NCs like UM fans like to do.
 

Chicago Irish Fan

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If Michigan cancels the series, you won't find me shedding any tears. They've already canceled the series for several decades on seperate occasions after their ego couldn't stand losing to us. Not only did the end the series, they blackballed us from the Big ten. If we have to join a conference, so be it. Conference play is a useful veil for having a shameful non conference schedule and a pretty easy schedule overall. Just as long as we don't have to join those douche bags in the BIG, let's do it. It makes for much easier BCS bids. I'm all for the ACC. It makes a ton of sense from recruiting, academic, and football standpoints.
 

Wolverine1997

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If Michigan cancels the series, you won't find me shedding any tears. They've already canceled the series for several decades on seperate occasions after their ego couldn't stand losing to us. Not only did the end the series, they blackballed us from the Big ten. If we have to join a conference, so be it. Conference play is a useful veil for having a shameful non conference schedule and a pretty easy schedule overall. Just as long as we don't have to join those douche bags in the BIG, let's do it. It makes for much easier BCS bids. I'm all for the ACC. It makes a ton of sense from recruiting, academic, and football standpoints.

I take it you read Natural Enemies? Great read isn't it?
 

AdmiralBackhand

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stlnd01

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If Michigan cancels the series, you won't find me shedding any tears. They've already canceled the series for several decades on seperate occasions after their ego couldn't stand losing to us. Not only did the end the series, they blackballed us from the Big ten. If we have to join a conference, so be it. Conference play is a useful veil for having a shameful non conference schedule and a pretty easy schedule overall. Just as long as we don't have to join those douche bags in the BIG, let's do it. It makes for much easier BCS bids. I'm all for the ACC. It makes a ton of sense from recruiting, academic, and football standpoints.

It's easy to say screw 'em. They are pompous little shits up there. But the fact is we really kind of need Michigan on our schedule. More than they need us.

Along with USC, they're our only consistent "big game," the kind that gets talked about all week and gets ratings on Saturday. We need that. NBC needs that. Purdue and Navy just don't excite anyone. Even Stanford and Michigan State, good as they've been the last few years, don't draw the kind of buzz that Michigan does even when they're down (and who knows, we could wind up losing Stanford from this deal, too).

It's great that we're scheduling Oklahoma and Texas and Miami, but that's not easy to do consistently (look what happened to our schedule under Kevin White). And we haven't played an SEC school since what, 2004? If Notre Dame's going to stay as nationally relevant as we all want it to be, there have got to be big-time schools on our schedule. And like them or not, Michigan's big-time. I hope we can work something out. In Swarbrick I trust.
 

BobD

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I think we should play Michigan yearly, it's a huge rivalry and we should have the chance to kick their @ss. Even if we don't beat them, we deserve the opportunity to hit them every year.

As far as TV ratings for games goes, I think they need us, a lot more than we need them.
 
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