I hope we run the table just to **** off Tom Dienhart.

[Pops Freshenmeyer]

You're right. We have to hope TCU knocks of Boise State in a few weeks.

Better yet: Air Force on the 22nd.

 

[Yes]

Better yet: Air Force on the 22nd.

Neither will come close.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Neither will come close.

TCU might. Rivalry game for them, so anything can happen. I fear neither will be up to task.

 

[phgreek]

Conference schedules just started. There will be a lot of ranked teams that will add losses. ND controls its own destiny.

Amen...

Not quite on the bandwagon for 10-2. I need to see the consistancy carry over...however, if they make the monster run, many of the current top 25 will have fallen...No14 means were in...

enough grey in my beard to see the ND draw...nobody wants to pass on that...just be eligible boys...thay'll take ya...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

BCS qualification rules can be found here.

The relevant snippet for Boise State:

3. The champion of Conference USA, the Mid-American Conference, the Mountain West Conference, the Sun Belt Conference, or the Western Athletic Conference will earn an automatic berth in a BCS bowl game if either:

A. Such team is ranked in the top 12 of the final BCS Standings, or,
B. Such team is ranked in the top 16 of the final BCS Standings and its ranking in the final BCS Standings is higher than that of a champion of a conference that has an annual automatic berth in one of the BCS bowls.

Boise State earning an automatic berth doesn't necessarily shut us out, no?

I'm trying to figure out what we should be rooting for going forward. I assume we want one multiple conferences to have 3+ teams ranked in the top 14, and we want the Big East to be a mess, because both of those outcomes should increase our chances to be selected as an at-large, no?

 

[jason_h537]

Yes ND has to be in top 14 to be eligible but remember aside from Bowl tie-ins and the NC game, the bowl can pick whoever they want. In 06 Oregon should have gotten a BCS bid over ND but money and clout reign supreme.

Other teams may be more deserving but depending on who is ranked ahead of ND IF they finish 10-2, they could get the nor

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Welcome aboard! Hey, I agree with everything you said. We run the table and boom, we are BCS. I love your attitude & I agree that some have taken NDOM's approach to our season, but don't abstain from posting, many of us are with you.

Here's a hint for some assistance. Just say something in your post about Rees being 8 and 1 ! That wakes up one of the big dogs on this site. Then throw in a Brah for good measure. Also, if you empty the Joe, make some moe! TErryTate is sometimes woke up to show our negative brothers the way. Stick around and you will see a bunch of folks with your attitude and some AWESOME insight. I got into trouble last time for not listing all the great posters, but honestly, there are so many, I can't! Welcome and enjoy. This is the best cyber hangout on the planet!

Hey!!!! That's my gig!!!

 

[TinyT]

No offense, but I think you're both crazy.

Reading responses like this I really fear that the past 15 years have bred a kind of fan that honestly would be better off rooting for Purdue or Kansas or something. There's this resigned, defeatist tone to everything, completely beaten down and lacking in pride.

One hopes BK's teams can do to the fanbase what he's already done for the program itself - change the culture. Until that happens I may abstain from messageboards. Wish you all well.

To date, Notre Dame has lost to USF, lost to Michigan, barely defeated Pitt. On the plus side, Notre Dame has beaten MSU, blown Purdue off of the field and downed Air Force in convincing fashion.

I fail to see how looking at the wins and losses and coming to the conclusion that this team has some work to do makes me defeatist. Purdue's biggest win was against Minnesota who has managed to beat Miami (OH). Air Force was able to conquer Tennessee State, South Dakota and Navy, in OT...not exactly murderers row.

As it stands ND has one quality win, MSU, and doesn't play another ranked opponent until Stanford. How can I assume that beating ONE ranked team will automatically grant me top 8 or even top 14 status? It isn't defeatist to say that ND isn't a shoe-in for a BCS berth, its realistic.

USC is struggling, but only has 1 loss. Beating Navy won't get ND any more respect. Wake Forest...Maryland, well they whooped up on Temple, so there is that. BC lost to Wake Forest, so maybe there is something there, but there only win was against Massachusetts so maybe not. And then there is Stanford, currently ranked #7, our one quality opponent, unless, of course, we wish to count our LOSS to #11 UM.

There is still half a season, much to learn, much to enjoy, but to say the first half of the season has shown me that Notre Dame is BCS bound, well...I stopped drinking kool-aid in elementary school.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

The "who have they beaten" method of ranking is nothing but hand-waving bullsh!t, TinyT. We're 4-2 against the 10th toughest schedule in the nation thus far. ND's average SoS over the last decade is 19.9; we consistently play one of the toughest schedules in the country, mainly because we don't schedule cupcakes.

If we head into Stanford at 9-2 and win, we will absolutely finish within the top 14, and the BCS has never failed to take ND when we're eligible.

 

[TinyT]

The "who have they beaten" method of ranking is nothing but hand-waving bullsh!t, TinyT. We're 4-2 against the 10th toughest schedule in the nation thus far. ND's average SoS over the last decade is 19.9; we consistently play one of the toughest schedules in the country, mainly because we don't schedule cupcakes.

If we head into Stanford at 9-2 and win, we will absolutely finish within the top 14, and the BCS has never failed to take ND when we're eligible.

So are you going on record as saying Notre Dame will play in a BCS bowl this year?

As for the who have they beaten theory being crap...

USF 4-1 Loss
UM 6-0 Loss
MSU 4-1 Win
PITT 3-3 Win
Purdue 3-2 Win
Air Force 3-2 Win
USC 4-1
Navy 2-3
Wake 4-1
Maryland 2-3
BC 1-5
Stanford 5-0

Through the cupcake portion of their schedules their are 6 teams on the schedule with Records of .500 or worse. Their schedules are only going to get tougher. ND lost to two of the remaining 6 with winning records. It is not BS to look at what ND's opponents have done and what ND has done against their opponents, its called getting perspective. There wasn't this much excitement on the board after ND scraped by PITT. All of this re-found optimism is based off of blowing out two teams that ND SHOULD have blown out. They weren't momentus occasions.

I agree that ND normally plays one of the toughest schedules, right now ND will play 6 teams with winning records...doesn't sound as tough as usual, especially when those losing 6 were playing "cupcakes".

As for the BCS never failing to take ND when ND was eligible. ND has been eligible what? 3 times, not exactly a huge sample size. The results weren't all that promising either as I recall, blown out by Oregon State, blown out by LSU, and blown out by OSU. I never said it wouldn't happen, though. I merely suggested it wasn't guaranteed, at which point my fanhood was challenged and it was suggested that I go root for Purdue or Kansas, I wonder if their fans would be more accepting of objective thoughts and tempered enthusiasm...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So are you going on record as saying Notre Dame will play in a BCS bowl this year?

I'm going on record saying that we'll definitely make a BCS bowl if we win out.

As for the who have they beaten theory being crap...

USF 4-1 Loss
UM 6-0 Loss
MSU 4-1 Win
PITT 3-3 Win
Purdue 3-2 Win
Air Force 3-2 Win
USC 4-1
Navy 2-3
Wake 4-1
Maryland 2-3
BC 1-5
Stanford 5-0

Did you even click on the link I provided? There's a scientific way to calculate SoS and it's a lot more complex than listing opponents and their records. Sagarin ranks ND's SoS over the last 6 games as 10th in the nation. Is that going to drop some over the next 6 games? Probably, but it still won't even come close to the laughable SoS #s a lot of ranked teams have at the end of the year.

Through the cupcake portion of their schedules their are 6 teams on the schedule with Records of .500 or worse. Their schedules are only going to get tougher. ND lost to two of the remaining 6 with winning records. It is not BS to look at what ND's opponents have done and what ND has done against their opponents, its called getting perspective. There wasn't this much excitement on the board after ND scraped by PITT. All of this re-found optimism is based off of blowing out two teams that ND SHOULD have blown out. They weren't momentus occasions.

The excitement is justified for two main reasons: (1) when was the last time ND actually blew out the opponents it was supposed to? and (2) our performance over the last two games indicates that we have a decent shot at winning out and making the BCS this season.

I agree that ND normally plays one of the toughest schedules, right now ND will play 6 teams with winning records...doesn't sound as tough as usual, especially when those losing 6 were playing "cupcakes".

We'll check back here after the season. $1 million vBucks says our SoS finishes in the top 30.

Also, you need to check your definition of "cupcake". There's not a single cupcake game on our schedule.

As for the BCS never failing to take ND when ND was eligible. ND has been eligible what? 3 times, not exactly a huge sample size. The results weren't all that promising either as I recall, blown out by Oregon State, blown out by LSU, and blown out by OSU. I never said it wouldn't happen, though. I merely suggested it wasn't guaranteed, at which point my fanhood was challenged and it was suggested that I go root for Purdue or Kansas, I wonder if their fans would be more accepting of objective thoughts and tempered enthusiasm...

This thread was started because Diehardt scoffed at the notion that ND could make the BCS as a 10-2 team. It's not only possible, but very likely to happen if we win out; thus Diehardt deserves the scorn he's receiving here, and you were collateral damage for trying to defend him.

 

[TinyT]

I'm going on record saying that we'll definitely make a BCS bowl if we win out.

The excitement is justified for two main reasons: (1) when was the last time ND actually blew out the opponents it was supposed to? and (2) our performance over the last two games indicates that we have a decent shot at winning out and making the BCS this season.

Also, you need to check your definition of "cupcake". There's not a single cupcake game on our schedule.

This thread was started because Diehardt scoffed at the notion that ND could make the BCS as a 10-2 team. It's not only possible, but very likely to happen if we win out; thus Diehardt deserves the scorn he's receiving here, and you were collateral damage for trying to defend him.

If we win out? You aren't confident ND will? Sounds to me like you aren't a true fan.

I can't remember the last time ND blew out the opponents it was supposed to and they didn't this year either. They barely beat PITT, a team that by all rights they should have thumped. ND also lost to USF, a game that many on this board had as a certain victory.

Cupcake: A delicious small cake with frosting on it. I didn't say ND played cupcakes, I said teams on the ND schedule had finished their cupcake portion, inferring that the opponents records were not likely to improve much as their schedules get tougher.

I didn't defend him. I suggested that IF ND wins out, it is far from guaranteed to have a BCS berth, because ND would have to be ranked higher than 8th in the BCS polls to be guaranteed a BCS spot. Do you think if ND wins out, they will be ranked 8th in the country or higher? I also suggested to the new member that he not go around correcting people's grammar on this site, lest he get his butt handed to him.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

If we win out? You aren't confident ND will? Sounds to me like you aren't a true fan.

I can't remember the last time ND blew out the opponents it was supposed to and they didn't this year either. They barely beat PITT, a team that by all rights they should have thumped. ND also lost to USF, a game that many on this board had as a certain victory.

It's clear that you were on a trip for the past two weeks.

Here are the links to the box scores from the Irish games.
Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. Purdue Boilermakers - Recap - October 01, 2011 - ESPN
Air Force Falcons vs. Notre Dame Fighting Irish - Recap - October 08, 2011 - ESPN

Enjoy some good reading.

Last time we scored 59? Lou Holtz era.

 

[TinyT]

It's clear that you were on a trip for the past two weeks.

Here are the links to the box scores from the Irish games.
Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. Purdue Boilermakers - Recap - October 01, 2011 - ESPN
Air Force Falcons vs. Notre Dame Fighting Irish - Recap - October 08, 2011 - ESPN

Enjoy some good reading.

Last time we scored 59? Lou Holtz era.

Hmm.......15-12...........I thought that we were supposed to handle PITT and they're new coaching staff, with a bit more ease. What about USF, they've been playing football for all of what? 10 years. Both of these games should have been easy picking, but they weren't, hence ND didn't destroy the teams it should have again this year. ND didn't even beat USF.

But, thank you for the links.

 

[NDdomer2]

In honor of Al Davis, "Just Win Baby." Let the other **** sort itself out.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Hmm.......15-12...........I thought that we were supposed to handle PITT and they're new coaching staff, with a bit more ease. What about USF, they've been playing football for all of what? 10 years. Both of these games should have been easy picking, but they weren't, hence ND didn't destroy the teams it should have again this year. We didn't even beat one of them.

What are you trying to prove? No one argued that ND has played up to its potential in every game this season.

With the way ND has played in its last two games, there's a good chance that we can win out. If we win out, there's a good chance that we make a BCS game. Do you have a problem with either of those two statements?

I'm beginning to think you're just trolling.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Hmm.......15-12...........I thought that we were supposed to handle PITT and they're new coaching staff, with a bit more ease. What about USF, they've been playing football for all of what? 10 years. Both of these games should have been easy picking, but they weren't, hence ND didn't destroy the teams it should have again this year. ND didn't even beat USF.

But, thank you for the links.

You said that we hadn't blown any teams out that we should have.

I provided links to show you that your statement was objectively wrong.

 

[TinyT]

What are you trying to prove? No one argued that ND has played up to its potential in every game this season.

With the way ND has played in last two games, there's a good chance that we can win out. If we win out, there's a good chance that we make a BCS game. Do you have a problem with either of those two statements?

I'm beginning to think you're just trolling.

If I were a troll, I would have been one from the start. I'm a few years into it now, and it simply isn't the case. It is not trollish to have a different opinion, lest I might think you were trying to merely get my goat. Every once in a blue moon, I like to voice my thoughts, bad or different as they may be, and see if I can drum up some decent conversation on Notre Dame football. As of yet, this has seemed to be more of an attack against those who don't think it is guaranteed to snag a BCS berth.

That response you quoted was in response to someone telling me that ND had blown out the opponents it was supposed to this year, which isn't the case. Unless someone is willing to concede that PITT and USF are ND's equals...any takers?

It is possible that ND wins out. It is also possible that they turn the ball over 5 more times in a game, against a team with decent talent and lose. ND has played turnover free ball in two games this year, Purdue and Air Force. If ND can play turnover free ball...

I am not sure what a "good chance" is. I wouldn't bet on good. The question is whether or not ND can penetrate the top 8, to be guaranteed a BCS berth. Can they? I don't know, that is a long way to climb, from unranked to #8 in six games, playing only one ranked opponent and three teams with winning records.

 

[TinyT]

You said that we hadn't blown any teams out that we should have.

I provided links to show you that your statement was objectively wrong.

I said ND hadn't blown out ALL the teams it should have, a minor distinction, but important nonetheless.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

That response you quoted was in response to someone telling me that ND had blown out the opponents it was supposed to this year, which isn't the case. Unless someone is willing to concede that PITT and USF are ND's equals...any takers?

Look, you're right in the sense that we haven't blown out every team we should have. Though, to be fair, USF is pretty good...and Pitt blew them out.

But, you're ignoring the two blow out wins we do have.

The point is this...not every great team blows out every bad team. Clemsen is ranked in the top ten, but barely beat Wofford. Arkansas is ranked #10, but only beat Troy by ten. That happens.

Unless you're willing to concede that Wofford and Clemsen are equals...

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I am not sure what a "good chance" is. I wouldn't bet on good. The question is whether or not ND can penetrate the top 8, to be guaranteed a BCS berth. Can they? I don't know, that is a long way to climb, from unranked to #8 in six games, playing only one ranked opponent and three teams with winning records.

We don't need to crack the top 8 to make the BCS. Top 14 makes us eligible, and I would bet heavily on the BCS taking us in that situation. 10-2 against what will end up as a top-30 SoS will definitely be enough to get us into the top 14 though.

Would I bet on us winning out? Depends on the odds. If ND beats USC soundly (which I think we will), then I'd be much more willing to make that bet.

 

[DillonHall]

We don't need to crack the top 8 to make the BCS. Top 14 makes us eligible, and I would bet heavily on the BCS taking us in that situation. 10-2 against what will end up as a top-30 SoS will definitely be enough to get us into the top 14 though.

Would I bet on us winning out? Depends on the odds. If ND beats USC soundly (which I think we will), then I'd be much more willing to make that bet.

Why are some people having so much trouble understanding 8 vs. 14? You're completely right, the BCS bowl officials will NOT pass us up if they have the opportunity to take us at #14!!

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I agree TinyT. You know whats sad, we barely beat University of Kentucky ...we beat them 37-34...they were terrible, and we actually think we have a chance to run the table, and compete in a BCS game? LOL

Wait a minute...that was Auburn in 2010...the same Auburn who won a national title....

The logic of "ND didn't beat Pitt by 50 when Rutgers beat them by 30 means that ND isn't very good, is ridiculous, and severely flawed.

Will ND win out? I dont know. Do they have a shot? Yes...and it relies on ND playing like they are capable of consistently, it doesn't rely on ND needing luck.

And if they go 10-2...there a VERY good chance that they will be in the BCS.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I agree TinyT. You know whats sad, we barely beat University of Kentucky ...we beat them 37-34...they were terrible, and we actually think we have a chance to run the table, and compete in a BCS game? LOL

Wait a minute...that was Auburn in 2010...the same Auburn who won a national title....

I see what you did there.

 

[TinyT]

We don't need to crack the top 8 to make the BCS. Top 14 makes us eligible, and I would bet heavily on the BCS taking us in that situation. 10-2 against what will end up as a top-30 SoS will definitely be enough to get us into the top 14 though.

Would I bet on us winning out? Depends on the odds. If ND beats USC soundly (which I think we will), then I'd be much more willing to make that bet.

True, Top 14 makes ND eligible, and has been stated earlier, the BCS has never refused an eligible Notre Dame. The fans travel and spend money, and the games draw higher viewership.

However, I wouldn't bet my life savings on the BCS taking ND solely because they are eligible any more. The dome has lost a lot of luster in the past decade or even more, and while it does appear to be shining a bit more now, it is possible, just maybe that the BCS will choose other teams if they appear to be better. That is what I would prefer anyway. Teams playing each other based on merit, not money/viewership. The best against the best

The teams in the BCS typically have dominant defenses, and ND's defense is good. But nobody knows how the offense will react to playing a dominant defense yet, and I would not enjoy watching ND get wiped of the field because the offense wasn't quite ready yet. Say for instance, that LSU and Oklahoma finish #1 and #2. If ND was to get paired against 'Bama, does anybody like our chances much. How does ND stand against Boise State...I have no idea, but they're really good. What about facing Oklahoma State, Wisconsin or God forbid Oregon. When I look at the top of the rankings and watch them play football, I compare them to ND and I ask myself...is ND really BCS ready?

I didn't enjoy the '01, '05 or '06 debacles, it wasn't fun, they weren't ready. I don't want to feel that way again.

 

[TinyT]

I agree TinyT. You know whats sad, we barely beat University of Kentucky ...we beat them 37-34...they were terrible, and we actually think we have a chance to run the table, and compete in a BCS game? LOL

Wait a minute...that was Auburn in 2010...the same Auburn who won a national title....

The logic of "ND didn't beat Pitt by 50 when Rutgers beat them by 30 means that ND isn't very good, is ridiculous, and severely flawed.

Will ND win out? I dont know. Do they have a shot? Yes...and it relies on ND playing like they are capable of consistently, it doesn't rely on ND needing luck.

And if they go 10-2...there a VERY good chance that they will be in the BCS.

My God, AUBURN DIDN'T HAVE TWO LOSSES.

The PITT reference was in response to Jayhawk telling me I missed the last two blowouts and that the team was finally destroying teams it should, which it isn't.

This is very tiresome.

 

[TinyT]

I think I know what people want to hear.

ND will win out, go to the BCS, beat LSU or Bama or Oregon or Oklahoma State, perhaps Boise State or Georgia Tech, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Clemson...just pick one it is a given that one of these teams will fall to ND. Then next year, on to the National Championship...lock it up.

The problem is, I am not that optimistic yet, perhaps I'm too jaded or I've been burned too many times.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

True, Top 14 makes ND eligible, and has been stated earlier, the BCS has never refused an eligible Notre Dame. The fans travel and spend money, and the games draw higher viewership.

However, I wouldn't bet my life savings on the BCS taking ND solely because they are eligible any more. The dome has lost a lot of luster in the past decade or even more, and while it does appear to be shining a bit more now, it is possible, just maybe that the BCS will choose other teams if they appear to be better. That is what I would prefer anyway. Teams playing each other based on merit, not money/viewership. The best against the best

The teams in the BCS typically have dominant defenses, and ND's defense is good. But nobody knows how the offense will react to playing a dominant defense yet, and I would not enjoy watching ND get wiped of the field because the offense wasn't quite ready yet. Say for instance, that LSU and Oklahoma finish #1 and #2. If ND was to get paired against 'Bama, does anybody like our chances much. How does ND stand against Boise State...I have no idea, but they're really good. What about facing Oklahoma State, Wisconsin or God forbid Oregon. When I look at the top of the rankings and watch them play football, I compare them to ND and I ask myself...is ND really BCS ready?

I didn't enjoy the '01, '05 or '06 debacles, it wasn't fun, they weren't ready. I don't want to feel that way again.

I can agree with you there. ND's name has gotten her some questionable consideration when it comes to the BCS in the past. I also agree with you that ND, this time around, won't be selected unless they are believed to be able to compete. As Brian Kelly noted, he can manufacture offense. Even Bama's D can be gashed at times, as well as LSU's (see WVU who is hot/cold with there offensive performances). We have the athletes to give any defense fits, they just have to realize their potential (Theo Riddick). If Theo Riddick can step up as a viable threat that exists outside the ND fans mind, then I believe ND has the tools to compete against anyone. **Plus I think George Attkinson is going to join the rotation sooner then later, he is just too good not to be on the field.

My biggest concern is our edges (in the event we face a mobile QB--the D-Rob experiment is a great example) and our secondary getting picked apart, which will be test against Barkley, and Luck. I think both teams, given the QB's aren't mobile, will work into a our strength. Our pass rush will give both lines fits, and hopefully force turnovers/ limit big plays. As I said earlier, a QB who can buy time would be a, as proven by DRob, nightmare for our defense. Our DE's play have stepped up a lot, but our OLB's scare me, along with our secondary.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

My God, AUBURN DIDN'T HAVE TWO LOSSES.

The PITT reference was in response to Jayhawk telling me I missed the last two blowouts and that the team was finally destroying teams it should, which it isn't.

This is very tiresome.

??? So you, after week 4 or 5 last season, knew Auburn wasn't going to lose any games, and play in the National Title? After barely getting by Kentucky you thought they were going to run the table in the SEC, and win a ****ing championship? hindsight is 20/20, when you look at the totality of Auburns season, yeah, they were awesome. But after the Kentucky game, there was not a college football fan in America that had them winning out

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think I know what people want to hear.

ND will win out, go to the BCS, beat LSU or Bama or Oregon or Oklahoma State, perhaps Boise State or Georgia Tech, Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Clemson...just pick one it is a given that one of these teams will fall to ND. Then next year, on to the National Championship...lock it up.

The problem is, I am not that optimistic yet, perhaps I'm too jaded or I've been burned too many times.

No. you keep saying people want to hear that, and no one does. We are just saying that ND does have a REASONABLE shot at running the table. No one is telling you to go bet your mortgage on ND winning out. We are just saying that, maybe, the first two games, with how they were lost (unforced turnovers, 100032432 penalties, dropped balls..etc) were the result of really really bad luck, and that this team is playing like they should have all along.

I am not going to go predict that ND will win out and go to a BCS bowl, but I will also not bet against it. They have a chance, a good chance, and it may happen if they don't beat themselves