Survive and Advance

[pkt77242]

And here is something that I posted in another thread about those games.

vs Utah we won 28-3
Tommy was 13/20 129 yards 3 tds and 0 int.

Obviously we win this game as Rees played very well.

vs Army we won 27-3
Tommy was 13/20 214 yards 1 td 1 int.

Tommy played above average and we would still win this game

vs USC we won 20-16
Tommy was 20/32 for 149 yards 2 tds and 3 int

We lost this game

vs Miami
Tommy was 15/29 201 yards 2 tds 0 int

Tommy played well and we win.

Michigan this year we lost 35-31

27/39 315 yards 3 tds 2 int 1 ugly fumble

You could make the arguement if Tommy doesn't fumble we might win. You could also argue if our defense managed to stop them from going the length of the field in 30 seconds we win. Toss up.

Michigan state this year We win 31-13
Tommy was 18/26 161 yards 1 td 1 int and 1 fumble

While our run defense was good, our pass defense left a lot to be desired. We still win.

Not going to do todays game

so that would make him 4-1-1 as a starter not counting today. I would take that record anyday from my starter.

 

[Irish Fam]

Please explain to me what the great defensive gameplan was? Double Michael Floyd? The defense wasn't that great. Example off the top of my head, the pick he threw that was intended for Eifert..... Eifert was WIDE OPEN five seconds before the pass was released. Rees just waitied to long and stared down Eifert when he was ready to make the pass.

This is not a good defense. They've been picked apart by lesser talented teams. Im just not impressed with Rees. Haven't been since day one.

They disguised blitzes, coverages, and most importantly eliminated our best player. I think that qualifies for a great defensive gameplan.

 

[ulukinatme]

They disguised blitzes, coverages, and most importantly eliminated our best player. I think that qualifies for a great defensive gameplan.

this

 

[BGIF]

I can tell you with out this game we need to go in a different direction

It's good to see the mods have sent you in the appropriate direction!





Well done, mods!

 

[ThePiombino]

We're forgetting one thing, folks. This is college football and ND is an independent. Therefore, a win is NOT a win. Things are subjective and left to the eyes of the beholder (i.e. the voters). LSU may very well leap over OU because of the quality of their win this week. If it was just about wins, all OU would have to do to maintain the #1 ranking is win out, but that's not the case. So I would argue that while a win is always better than a loss, it is, in fact, not always a win.

 

[Old Man Mike]

As a related issue: there have been some [in my mind incredibly stupid] postings criticizing Coach Kelly about all this. I would like to submit that this is a team which although speckled all about with impressive studs, lacks a really sound QB for the system being run, yet functions offensively beautifully in all other controllable fashions, and a defense with serious speed limitations at the linebacking positions, yet functions superiorly at almost any resultant analyses of defensive production that one can rationally evaluate.

We stumble about due to QB lack of competence in certain areas and in lack of defensive speed particularly in linebacker coverage areas [both short zone and flats and QB scrambles], but I find this VERY hard to lay at the feet of either Kelly or Diaco. You have to play with who you have until you can play with who you want [i.e. recruit yourself].

We have an "interesting" team with two fundamental flaws. Tommy MIGHT grow out of his side of this, but we aren't going to suddenly get faster at space-coverage. We're going to have to fight, scratch, spit, and claw every game no matter who we play, unless the other coaches aren't very bright. This is a Roll-Aids season and my stomach has too many miles on it already.

 

[NDOM]

Nothing's going to happen guys. We're coming up on an "easier" game this week. This will either serve as a confidence builder for him or we'll know we need to move in a different direction.

Ummmmmmmm, there is NEVER an easier game for ND. Every team that plays us plays like they are the #1 team in the country. Purdue is gonna give us h e l l.

 

[Old Man Mike]

NDOM's correct on this. Purdue will play their butts off. But the game won't be about them. It will, as will practically every game this season, be about us. EVERYONE in the whole country knows that we're loaded with better overall talent [there ARE some glaring weaknesses, but still...] than almost anybody. Everyone also knows by now, that ND will sink or swim due to our own devices.

Does Purdue's DC come up with as good a [MINDGAME] plan as Pitt's did [by the way, Pitt was GREATLY helped by the fact that their D-Line is very good---is Purdue's?], or is he less clever? If the latter, they probably lose big. If the former, it's cardiac and high blood pressure time again.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Ummmmmmmm, there is NEVER an easier game for ND. Every team that plays us plays like they are the #1 team in the country. Purdue is gonna give us h e l l.

Funny how we are so 'irrelevant' to current coaches and players since we haven't done anything since '88 but; we 'relevant' enough that everyone wants to put the Irish in thier place.

Love my Irish, wish we could get back to putting some teams in thier place.

What's the difference between Notre Dame and the Dallas Cowboys? | Ed The Sports Fan

Diz

 

[Irish Man3]

They disguised blitzes, coverages, and most importantly eliminated our best player. I think that qualifies for a great defensive gameplan.

Every football team in the country does this. They did no different than any team we have played or will play. Tommy makes it easy to defend the Irish because he locks on to his intended target immediately. He also makes it easy to jump the snap count because he doesnt have the team organized and to the line until there's less than 5 seconds left on the play clock. How many timeouts have we burned this year because of this exact thing? With all of these close games nobody thinks that will come back to bite us?

You can say that Pitt did a good job eliminating Floyd but we have solid players all over the field. How many times did Urban Meyer boast about Notre Dame's talent yesterday? That's a guy that knows talent. We have talent all over the field and Rees refuses to utilize it.

 

[Irish Man3]

And here is something that I posted in another thread about those games.

vs Utah we won 28-3
Tommy was 13/20 129 yards 3 tds and 0 int.

Obviously we win this game as Rees played very well.

vs Army we won 27-3
Tommy was 13/20 214 yards 1 td 1 int.

Tommy played above average and we would still win this game
vs USC we won 20-16
Tommy was 20/32 for 149 yards 2 tds and 3 intWe lost this game

vs Miami
Tommy was 15/29 201 yards 2 tds 0 int

Tommy played well and we win.

Michigan this year we lost 35-31

27/39 315 yards 3 tds 2 int 1 ugly fumble

You could make the arguement if Tommy doesn't fumble we might win. You could also argue if our defense managed to stop them from going the length of the field in 30 seconds we win. Toss up.

Michigan state this year We win 31-13
Tommy was 18/26 161 yards 1 td 1 int and 1 fumble

While our run defense was good, our pass defense left a lot to be desired. We still win.

Not going to do todays game

so that would make him 4-1-1 as a starter not counting today. I would take that record anyday from my starter.

Those are above average numbers to you against a bad Army team? I would hate to see what you call average or below average.

Didnt Tommy throw 4 interceptions against USC? I believe he did. Tommy Rees had very little to do with the win against Southern Cal. Our defense and running attack won that game without a question. Not to mention, that was the worst USC defense I've seen..... maybe ever, until this year.

Tommy played good against a very bad Miami team that had nothing to play for. I wont complain about that game. However, most of what he did was throw the ball in the air and let Michael Floyd make a play for the ball. I give him credit for realizing the mismatch and letting Floyd go to work.

I think your off base with the Michigan State game as well. The numbers are misleading because we played relaxed zone coverage for much of the second half. Cunningham got his and they were solid off play action, but Notre Dame took MSU out of their game.

The interceptions against a bad Michigan team were terrible. The pick he threw that was intended for Floyd on the sideline..... watch that play please and tell me what you see. Eifert has nobody within 20 yards of him. NOBODY! The second pick that was intended for Floyd, was a terrible decision. That was a basic zone switch. he made the same mistake against Tulsa..... oh yea, that lost us that game as well.

Calling his fumble against Michigan ugly is another drastic understatment on your part.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Those are above average numbers to you against a bad Army team? I would hate to see what you call average or below average.

Didnt Tommy throw 4 interceptions against USC? I believe he did. Tommy Rees had very little to do with the win against Southern Cal. Our defense and running attack won that game without a question. Not to mention, that was the worst USC defense I've seen..... maybe ever, until this year.

Tommy played good against a very bad Miami team that had nothing to play for. I wont complain about that game. However, most of what he did was throw the ball in the air and let Michael Floyd make a play for the ball. I give him credit for realizing the mismatch and letting Floyd go to work.

I think your off base with the Michigan State game as well. The numbers are misleading because we played relaxed zone coverage for much of the second half. Cunningham got his and they were solid off play action, but Notre Dame took MSU out of their game.

The interceptions against a bad Michigan team were terrible. The pick he threw that was intended for Floyd on the sideline..... watch that play please and tell me what you see. Eifert has nobody within 20 yards of him. NOBODY! The second pick that was intended for Floyd, was a terrible decision. That was a basic zone switch. he made the same mistake against Tulsa..... oh yea, that lost us that game as well.

Calling his fumble against Michigan ugly is another drastic understatment on your part.

We have a quarterback problem, but our answer is still way to young to be at all productive. Dayne Crist is not the answer, his production would not be any more then Tommy's.

ND needs to have some gimmicky wrinkles that take pressure off Tommy (leprecat..etc)
Also, design plays specifically to get Cierre Wood/Jonas/Riddick in space. Pitch and catch. ND has the weapons, lets get them the ball.

Tommy shouldn't be throwing more then 25 passes a game

 

[Irish Man3]

We have a quarterback problem, but our answer is still way to young to be at all productive. Dayne Crist is not the answer, his production would not be any more then Tommy's.

ND needs to have some gimmicky wrinkles that take pressure off Tommy (leprecat..etc)
Also, design plays specifically to get Cierre Wood/Jonas/Riddick in space. Pitch and catch. ND has the weapons, lets get them the ball.

Tommy shouldn't be throwing more then 25 passes a game

Thats what Brian Kelly's offense is designed to do.

If you look at Dayne's numbers through his starts last year, they are better than Tommys. His touchdown to interception ratio was basically 2 to 1 if I remember correctly. Something like 14/7 or 8. Those are good numbers considering those were his first starts as well. Why did Brian Kelly go with Dayne after having all of summer workouts and fall practice to evaluate?

 

[pkt77242]

Those are above average numbers to you against a bad Army team? I would hate to see what you call average or below average.

Didnt Tommy throw 4 interceptions against USC? I believe he did. Tommy Rees had very little to do with the win against Southern Cal. Our defense and running attack won that game without a question. Not to mention, that was the worst USC defense I've seen..... maybe ever, until this year.

Tommy played good against a very bad Miami team that had nothing to play for. I wont complain about that game. However, most of what he did was throw the ball in the air and let Michael Floyd make a play for the ball. I give him credit for realizing the mismatch and letting Floyd go to work.

I think your off base with the Michigan State game as well. The numbers are misleading because we played relaxed zone coverage for much of the second half. Cunningham got his and they were solid off play action, but Notre Dame took MSU out of their game.

The interceptions against a bad Michigan team were terrible. The pick he threw that was intended for Floyd on the sideline..... watch that play please and tell me what you see. Eifert has nobody within 20 yards of him. NOBODY! The second pick that was intended for Floyd, was a terrible decision. That was a basic zone switch. he made the same mistake against Tulsa..... oh yea, that lost us that game as well.

Calling his fumble against Michigan ugly is another drastic understatment on your part.

1. I wouldn't have called army a bad team last year, they were average.

2. According to ESPN Rees only had 3 picks vs USC Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. USC Trojans - Box Score - November 27, 2010 - ESPN

3. How does Miami qualify as a very bad team? I wouldn't call them great last year but at worst they were average to slightly above average and they send a fair amount of defensive players to the NFL including a CB in the 2nd round and a CB in the 3rd round.

4. I think you are selling Tommy short for the Michigan game and Michigan St game. While he didn't play amazing in either game, we should have won the Michigan game and we did win the MSU game.

5. In my post I was pointing out that Tommy deserved a loss for the USC game not a win. That is why at the end I said that he deserved a 4-1-1 record (wins vs Utah, Army, Miami, and MSU, loss vs USC and a tie vs Michigan).

In closing I don't believe that Tommy is a great or even very good QB but he is the best we have and bitching about it is not going to change that.

 

[Irish Man3]

1. I wouldn't have called army a bad team last year, they were average.

2. According to ESPN Rees only had 3 picks vs USC Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. USC Trojans - Box Score - November 27, 2010 - ESPN

3. How does Miami qualify as a very bad team? I wouldn't call them great last year but at worst they were average to slightly above average and they send a fair amount of defensive players to the NFL including a CB in the 2nd round and a CB in the 3rd round.

4. I think you are selling Tommy short for the Michigan game and Michigan St game. While he didn't play amazing in either game, we should have won the Michigan game and we did win the MSU game.

5. In my post I was pointing out that Tommy deserved a loss for the USC game not a win. That is why at the end I said that he deserved a 4-1-1 record (wins vs Utah, Army, Miami, and MSU, loss vs USC and a tie vs Michigan).

In closing I don't believe that Tommy is a great or even very good QB but he is the best we have and bitching about it is not going to change that.[/QUOTE]

Nobody is "bitching" about anything. It's an exchange of opinions and a simple discussion so pump the brakes chief.

Again, if he is the "best we have" than why wasn't he the starter at the start of last season? Why wasn't he the starter at the begining of this season? I think the Brian Kelly over-reacted to a bad start to the season. It was a nightmare start to a season that had a lot of promise. Dayne gives us the ability to use the full playbook. Dayne is also not a great quarterback by any means, hell he's not even a spread quarterback but he is a good enough athlete to keep the run threat there.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

1. I wouldn't have called army a bad team last year, they were average.

2. According to ESPN Rees only had 3 picks vs USC Notre Dame Fighting Irish vs. USC Trojans - Box Score - November 27, 2010 - ESPN

3. How does Miami qualify as a very bad team? I wouldn't call them great last year but at worst they were average to slightly above average and they send a fair amount of defensive players to the NFL including a CB in the 2nd round and a CB in the 3rd round.

4. I think you are selling Tommy short for the Michigan game and Michigan St game. While he didn't play amazing in either game, we should have won the Michigan game and we did win the MSU game.

5. In my post I was pointing out that Tommy deserved a loss for the USC game not a win. That is why at the end I said that he deserved a 4-1-1 record (wins vs Utah, Army, Miami, and MSU, loss vs USC and a tie vs Michigan).

In closing I don't believe that Tommy is a great or even very good QB but he is the best we have and bitching about it is not going to change that.[/QUOTE]

Nobody is "bitching" about anything. It's an exchange of opinions and a simple discussion so pump the brakes chief.

Again, if he is the "best we have" than why wasn't he the starter at the start of last season? Why wasn't he the starter at the begining of this season? I think the Brian Kelly over-reacted to a bad start to the season. It was a nightmare start to a season that had a lot of promise. Dayne gives us the ability to use the full playbook. Dayne is also not a great quarterback by any means, hell he's not even a spread quarterback but he is a good enough athlete to keep the run threat there.

I think that is where we disagree. I don't think Dayne allows us to use the whole playbook, even last season, he would constantly throw to his 3rd/4th option because it was the safe throw. I don't think he's comfortable reading the coverages, neither is Tommy, but he tries. That's why you'll have him throw a perfect drive, and then throw ridiculous INT's because he forces passes into windows. He's like Brett Farve, he's not afraid to throw the ball, but its a catch 22, he'll lead the team down the field being perfect on 1 drive, and the next he'll throw ugly INTS. Thats why I think BK plays him over Dayne, Dayne's afraid to throw the ball downfield, and drives stall at the 50. Tommy will hit a homerun then strike out swinging at balls in the dirt.

With either QB we are in trouble. Thats why we need to have designed plays to get the ball to our players who can take it to the house. Good coaches adapt their offense to the players that they have, BK doesn't have the QB to run his system yet...well he does...but he isn't ready. Like another poster said, if we can put Tommy is a position to just manage the game, not win the game, we'll be in a awesome position

--Get Theo the ball in space.
--Get Cierre Wood the ball in space
---Get Jonas Gray the ball in space

That will take the double coverage off of Floyd.

 

[BurningRiver]

one of the things i don't like about having Rees as our QB is that it seems like he just can't throw an accurate pass over the middle for more than 10 yards. so it seems like we're always stuck running those stupid swings and dumpoffs because i don't think BK trusts him to throw those passes.

crist would allow us to use much more of the playbook, because he's both more experienced and has a better arm.

not that i want crist starting, i'm just saying that i'm not a huge tommy fan. where's Brady Quinn when you need him?

 

[Irish Fam]

Every football team in the country does this. They did no different than any team we have played or will play. Tommy makes it easy to defend the Irish because he locks on to his intended target immediately. He also makes it easy to jump the snap count because he doesnt have the team organized and to the line until there's less than 5 seconds left on the play clock. How many timeouts have we burned this year because of this exact thing? With all of these close games nobody thinks that will come back to bite us?

You can say that Pitt did a good job eliminating Floyd but we have solid players all over the field. How many times did Urban Meyer boast about Notre Dame's talent yesterday? That's a guy that knows talent. We have talent all over the field and Rees refuses to utilize it.

I completely agree about Tommy being easy to defend. And obviously all coaches would like to disguise blitzes and coverages, but Pitt's staff succeeded. I've always thought Tommy was pretty good at presnap reads, but he was confused yesterday. I believe Kelly was too. We definitely have playmakers and talent on offense, but nothing to the degree of Floyd.

I don't mean to give Rees a crutch. I don't care for him at QB. But, in this case, I have to give Pitt some credit. They really had a solid defensive gameplan.

 

[jakerbluegold]

Ah, memories.

Looking back at the embarrassment of riches we've had with Qbs over the last 6 years, it really does make me cringe to watch 'ol Tommy chuck it into triple coverage, but the kid's got moxy.

I just wanted to throw some old Charlie in there. I couldn't help it.

It is very pleasing to avoid the gauntlet of the week after a loss though. Not having to hear any bs "how about them Irish?" comments has me breathing a sigh of relief.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Every football team in the country does this. They did no different than any team we have played or will play. Tommy makes it easy to defend the Irish because he locks on to his intended target immediately. He also makes it easy to jump the snap count because he doesnt have the team organized and to the line until there's less than 5 seconds left on the play clock. How many timeouts have we burned this year because of this exact thing? With all of these close games nobody thinks that will come back to bite us?

You can say that Pitt did a good job eliminating Floyd but we have solid players all over the field. How many times did Urban Meyer boast about Notre Dame's talent yesterday? That's a guy that knows talent. We have talent all over the field and Rees refuses to utilize it.

He makes it easy to defend the Irish, but then he torched USF (#17 defense last year) and Michigan, threw for 70% vs. MSU, and STILL lead the offense to about 400 yds yesterday despite playing like crap, and this is against one of the toughest Sept schedules in the entire nation. So if he's that easy to defend against, then all 4 of those teams need to fire their defensive coordinators.

You say you want him to get the ball to our playmakers besides Floyd. WHAT PLAYMAKERS??? Riddick still has yet to consistently show us the athlete that they see in practice, Eifert got the ball a ton yesterday, TJ Jones is good but I'd hardly consider him a playmaker, the RBs are getting their touches so they are involved, Goodman just isn't very good, Toma isn't a lot, Daniel Smith is hurt, Daniels is still learning the playbook, etc etc. We are in desperate need of playmakers; Kelly has been saying this for a long time. You saw the ASU-USC game last night...now THOSE are some playmakers on ASU. Right now, most of our guys are just playmakers in Irish fans' heads.

Rees needs a ton of work, no doubt. The whole point of this thread was that there was no way in hell I as going to sit on the Internet and bitch about a win on the road to a team Vegas had us to beat by only 3.5 pts. Hell no. I enjoyed the aftermath of the win (the win itself was torture, but the feeling of winning and keeping the season alive was great), I enjoyed coaching my own elementary school team to a win, and then I enjoyed watching college football at a sports bar in Westwood for the rest of the night (fully decked out in ND gear), especially when USC got their asses kicked. Came back to the site this morning and saw that most Irish fans were still bitching about the win.

Oh well, to each his own.

BTW, Clemson squeaked by friggin Wofford by one score, and now they are a top 15 team, having beaten Auburn and FSU back to back. One bad game after 3 exceptional games is not going to make me think this team sucks. Hell no. If we struggle against Purdue, then yeah, we're in major trouble. But for now, I'm still happy we got the damn 'W'. Peace...

 

[tommyIRISH23]

He makes it easy to defend the Irish, but then he torched USF (#17 defense last year) and Michigan, threw for 70% vs. MSU, and STILL lead the offense to about 400 yds yesterday despite playing like crap, and this is against one of the toughest Sept schedules in the entire nation. So if he's that easy to defend against, then all 4 of those teams need to fire their defensive coordinators.

You say you want him to get the ball to our playmakers besides Floyd. WHAT PLAYMAKERS??? Riddick still has yet to consistently show us the athlete that they see in practice, Eifert got the ball a ton yesterday, TJ Jones is good but I'd hardly consider him a playmaker, the RBs are getting their touches so they are involved, Goodman jsut isn't very good, Toma is never in, Daniel Smith is hurt, Daniels is still learning the playbook, etc etc. We are in desperate need of playmakers; Kelly has been saying this for a long time. You saw the ASU-USC game last night...now THOSE are some playmakers on ASU. Right now, most of our guys are just playmakers in Irish fans' heads.

Rees needs a ton of work, no doubt. The whole point of this thread was that there was no way in hell I as going to sit on the Internet and bitch about a win on the road to a team Vegas had us to beat by only 3.5 pts. Hell no. I enjoyed the aftermath of the win (the win itself was torture, but the feeling of winning and keeping the season alive was great), I enjoyed coaching my own elementary school team to a win, and then I enjoyed watching college football at a sports bar in Westwood for the rest of the night (fully decked out in ND gear), especially when USC got their asses kicked. Came back to the site this morning and saw that most Irish fans were still bitching about the win.

Oh well, to each his own.

BTW, Clemson squeaked by friggin Wofford by one score, and now they are a top 15 team, having beaten Auburn and FSU back to back. One bad game after 3 exceptional games is not going to make me think this team sucks. Hell no. If we struggle against Purdue, then yeah, we're in major trouble. But for now, I'm still happy we got the damn 'W'. Peace...

Very good points. The offense averaging 400+ yards a game, with 2 games over 500m yeah...Rees is very easy to defend.

Also, the penalties we've had yesterday, and our losses, had just as much to do with the lack of points on the board as Rees turnovers. They need to be fixed ASAP