Crist vs Rees

[tko]

Everything is bad. I hate things. Bring back Tyrone.

call the country club.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

Nope. IMO we just can't live with the following:

Zeke being too slow,

Gray not getting his head around,

and 3-TO-Tommy at QB.

Again, I'm not satisfied, but we just won a game on the road against a pretty decent team. Iowa needed a furious 4th quarter comeback to win last week. I don't understand the consternation.

I'm going to Genevese with my wife. Nice place in Lawerence. You'd love it. Later Irish nation.

 

[GowerND11]

Here is my thing. Since people have thrown some stats around..... You forgot to add in the amount of fumble Tommy has had in those stats. Those turnovers KILL.

I don't know what the answer will be. Tommy is my QB I will support him. If Dayne comes back I support him. I love Dayne, and if he is what is needed then so be it. If Tommy leads us to a successful seaosn then so be it. If we win we win.

 

[micks60]

Nope. IMO we just can't live with the following:

Zeke being too slow,

Gray not getting his head around,

and 3-TO-Tommy at QB.

True,true,and true!

 

[betecd]

Good point. Reich was only 32 when he led the comeback against the Oilers . Tommy is already 20. Seems that your comparison is spot on.

I guess my point was more to the fact that Tommy is more of a great backup option as opposed to Reing the end all be all as a starter. IMO e is a great back up but leaves a lot to be desired as a starter. I don't know abut the rest of you but if Rees is our starting QB for next year I have some real concerns.

 

[BGIF]

Good point. Reich was only 32 when he led the comeback against the Oilers . Tommy is already 20. Seems that your comparison is spot on.

No, actually Tommy is only 19. He turned 19 on May 22nd.

Jimmy Clausen was 20 when he played for ND in '07. Rees was 18 when he got thrown in the fire and a year later Rees is STILL a year younger than Clausen was as a freshman.

 

[EifertPower]

Yes, Rees is 6-1 in games he started. But how come he's not getting any fault for the South Florida loss because he didn't start? He was equally to blame as Crist was for that loss (and in reality there were a million other reasons we lost that game besides either of them). And how come Rees gets a free pass on the Tulsa game last year? Dayne played one series that game and Tommy threw 3 INTs that game.

Also, Crist has that Michigan game last year count against him? He nearly led ND to a TD every drive that game that he played. If it wasn't for that concussion and he'd played the whole game ND might have scored 50 points and won and he'd thrown for close to 500 yards.

 

[ThePiombino]

Yes, Rees is 6-1 in games he started. But how come he's not getting any fault for the South Florida loss because he didn't start? He was equally to blame as Crist was for that loss (and in reality there were a million other reasons we lost that game besides either of them). And how come Rees gets a free pass on the Tulsa game last year? Dayne played one series that game and Tommy threw 3 INTs that game.

Also, Crist has that Michigan game last year count against him? He nearly led ND to a TD every drive that game that he played. If it wasn't for that concussion and he'd played the whole game ND might have scored 50 points and won and he'd thrown for close to 500 yards.

This, this, this, this, this and THISSSSSSSS^

 

[DuffHouse12]

Rees is not equally to blame for the USF loss - it was 16-0 when he came in and they lost by 3. he made up 13 points.

lots of Crist guys in this thread who can't get over the kid's body. he's bad. he is bad at playing football and quarterback. he's the QB version of Gary Gray.

 

[DuffHouse12]

As far as Michigan LAST YEAR - you can't sell me on an argument about things that MIGHT have happened or COULD have happened because they DIDNT happen. "oh if he didn't get a concussion they would have blah blah blah"

reality is Dayne threw the ball to the band on the last play of the game and it wasn't even close. NOT CLOSE. never even had a chance of being caught for the win. threw it to the band.

so yeah - when being compared to a kid who has show time and time again that he can make that winning TD throw - it counts against him.

 

[EddytoNow]

The truth is that neither Crist nor Rees is the answer. Dayne lacks composure when things begin to fall apart. Tommy is riddled by turnovers. If it weren't for our defense we'd be 0-4 right now. I'm not sure if Golson or Hendrix is the answer, but they couldn't be any worse, and both offer a running option that is lacking in Crist and Rees. At some point, we accept that this is going to be a 7-5 season or we try another option at quarterback. If nothing else, try Golson or Hendrix for a series or two and give them the opportunity to produce during game time.

 

[EifertPower]

Let's look at all of our losses the last two years and try and summarize why we lost

2010
Michigan: Because our defense couldn't stop Denard Robinson and couldn't stop him especially with the game on the line late in the 4th quarter

Michigan State: There were a few reasons but bottom line is Michigan State was going to try a very hard field goal to force double OT but caught us completely off guard with a brilliant fake.

Stanford: Stanford just beat us up on both sides of the ball and we looked awful. Stanford proved to be a Top 5 team in the nation that year.

Navy: Because our defense couldn't stop Teich or Dobbs. Navy scored 5 touchdowns on its first 6 possessions of the game.

Tulsa: Because our defense couldn't stop Tulsa with the game on the line ( a 31 yard pass on 3rd and 26??) and because of turnovers. The one Tulsa ran back for a TD and the one that prevented us from kicking the game-winning field goal.

South Florida: Because of turnovers by everyone.

Michigan: Because our defense couldn't get a stop late in the game. We allowed them to go 80 yards on two plays with 0:23 seconds left.



So in reality very few were specifically because of the play of Rees and Crist. In fact, i think the only game that was was the Tulsa game and i can't really fault Rees for that since he was a true frosh and thrown into that game unexpected. However, if we would've lost yesterday's game I would have vehementally argued it was because of Rees' performance.

 

[koonja]

Let's look at all of our losses the last two years and try and summarize why we lost

2010
Michigan:
Michigan State: There were a few reasons but bottom line is Michigan State was going to try a very hard field goal to force double OT but caught us completely off guard with a brilliant fake.

Stanford: Stanford just beat us up on both sides of the ball and we looked awful. Stanford proved to be a Top 5 team in the nation that year.

Navy: Because our defense couldn't stop Teich or Dobbs. Navy scored 5 touchdowns on its first 6 possessions of the game.

Tulsa: Because our defense couldn't stop Tulsa with the game on the line ( a 31 yard pass on 3rd and 26??) and because of turnovers. The one Tulsa ran back for a TD and the one that prevented us from kicking the game-winning field goal.

South Florida: Because of turnovers by everyone.

Michigan: Because our defense couldn't get a stop late in the game. We allowed them to go 80 yards on two plays with 0:23 seconds left.



So in reality very few were specifically because of the play of Rees and Crist. In fact, i think the only game that was was the Tulsa game and i can't really fault Rees for that since he was a true frosh and thrown into that game unexpected. However, if we would've lost yesterday's game I would have vehementally argued it was because of Rees' performance.

We lost that game because Crist went out. Once he went out, we turned the ball over like crazy and/or 3 and outs and you can't give Denard that many chances to break one loose or he will. When Crist was in, we outscored Michigan 24-7. I would know, I was there. We moved the ball very well with him that game.

 

[BurningRiver]

remember the days when our defense sucked and our offense had to outscore the opposition to win?

good times.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

when was the last time Dayne Crist had a drive like Rees had to win that game?

Rees has had 2 drives like that THIS SEASON (Michigan ended up being a loss), not to mention a game winning drive @ USC!!!!

Crist NEVER has. I will wait for someone to point out a signature Crist drive that doesn't end with him passing the ball to the tuba player.

It is one thing to say that both QBs have their flaws but it is another to trash Crist the way you have. You are basically calling Crist a loser with your idiotic criteria of gaming winning drives. I think Crist has an issue and that is accuracy. One thing he is not is the loser you imply him to be. I am appalled by the double standard with regards to performance. Crist has one bad half of football this year and he is banished...yet we watch Rees make error after error after error. O I forget he is a "winner". Yeah, Rees is the reason why we won games and everybody else is the reason we lost or are struggling. Kelly better be careful because nothing undermines team morale than overt favoritism.

If you want to bring last year's performance, Crist was asked to win games because we didn't have a good run game nor a good defense. He played well considering he was learning a completely new system. Let's not forget how Kelly "coached" Crist through those first games. When he went down, Rees came in and played well. Kelly dumbed down the offense and called a conservative games. The defense began to play well...now is that because Rees the winner was in the game...no...it might have been the conservative offensive approach that didn't leave the defense in vulnerable situations. O...the USC game where Rees engineered that game winning drive...ahahahhah.

I am not writing this to knock Rees. I am writing this in response to your inane logic. If Rees stops turning the ball over, I will root for him just like I would root for Crist. But if Rees continues to turn the ball over, Kelly has to bench him. Everyone should be accountable for their play...no one should be unbenchable.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

It is one thing to say that both QBs have their flaws but it is another to trash Crist the way you have. You are basically calling Crist a loser with your idiotic criteria of gaming winning drives. I think Crist has an issue and that is accuracy. One thing he is not is the loser you imply him to be. I am appalled by the double standard with regards to performance. Crist has one bad half of football this year and he is banished...yet we watch Rees make error after error after error. O I forget he is a "winner". Yeah, Rees is the reason why we won games and everybody else is the reason we lost or are struggling. Kelly better be careful because nothing undermines team morale than overt favoritism.

If you want to bring last year's performance, Crist was asked to win games because we didn't have a good run game nor a good defense. He played well considering he was learning a completely new system. Let's not forget how Kelly "coached" Crist through those first games. When he went down, Rees came in and played well. Kelly dumbed down the offense and called a conservative games. The defense began to play well...now is that because Rees the winner was in the game...no...it might have been the conservative offensive approach that didn't leave the defense in vulnerable situations. O...the USC game where Rees engineered that game winning drive...ahahahhah.

I am not writing this to knock Rees. I am writing this in response to your inane logic. If Rees stops turning the ball over, I will root for him just like I would root for Crist. But if Rees continues to turn the ball over, Kelly has to bench him. Everyone should be accountable for their play...no one should be unbenchable.

Excellent first post. Very well said.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I am writing this in response to your inane logic.

Logic is in short supply on both ends of this debate. We all have gut feelings and love our team.

 

[koonja]

Rees defender's get way too defensive.

Any fan is going to question a QB who turns the ball over 2-3 times every game.

 

[N_D_Fighting_Irish]

Logic is in short supply on both ends of this debate. We all have gut feelings and love our team.

The debate should center around player accountability. Crist was held accountable for his poor play. Rees has not been held accountable. Why? I frankly don't buy the Rees gives us the best chance to win argument. It is apparent that he also gives the opponent the best chance to win with all the turnovers he commits.

I believe Kelly doesn't want to break Rees's confidence. If anything, the Pitt game revealed that he has no confidence/trust in Crist. If he breaks Rees's confidence and he doesn't trust Crist, he has to turn to Hendrix/Golston. His panic move of benching Crist is haunting him now.

 

[koonja]

The debate should center around player accountability. Crist was held accountable for his poor play. Rees has not been held accountable. Why? I frankly don't buy the Rees gives us the best chance to win argument. It is apparent that he also gives the opponent the best chance to win with all the turnovers he commits.

I believe Kelly doesn't want to break Rees's confidence. If anything, the Pitt game revealed that he has no confidence/trust in Crist. If he breaks Rees's confidence and he doesn't trust Crist, he has to turn to Hendrix/Golston. His panic move of benching Crist is haunting him now.

Word!

 

[NDinL.A.]

The debate should center around player accountability. Crist was held accountable for his poor play. Rees has not been held accountable. Why? I frankly don't buy the Rees gives us the best chance to win argument. It is apparent that he also gives the opponent the best chance to win with all the turnovers he commits.

I believe Kelly doesn't want to break Rees's confidence. If anything, the Pitt game revealed that he has no confidence/trust in Crist. If he breaks Rees's confidence and he doesn't trust Crist, he has to turn to Hendrix/Golston. His panic move of benching Crist is haunting him now.

He beat the #15 team in the nation, and now Pitt on the road for a 2 game winning streak, and you think it's haunting him now?

You need to check out yesterday's postgame celebration and watch BK address the team. You'll see that his decision is in no way haunting him. You can disagree with his decision to stick with Rees, but I can guarantee you, at this point in time, that Kelly is completely fine with his decision.

 

[meowmix]

I was discussing the Crist vs. Rees topic with some of my friends on Saturday. Crist, when on a roll (UM, MSU, 1st 2 drives against USF), is very impressive. However, when he makes a bad mistake, (pick in end zone against USF), he freaks out and gets in his own head. He gets tentative and starts air-mailing throws or he gouges out holes in the turf. He also checks down constantly when he's nervous. We know his ceiling's higher but he's so inconsistent after a mistake. Thus far, I think even the biggest Crist fans should still be on board. (For the record, I love Dayne: fantastic guy, very intelligent and polite).

Tommy has a lower ceiling but is VERY consistent. He is more accurate than Crist and is better at reading coverages (when they're not very complicated - like Pitt's: watch the irish connection video 9 where Kelly talks about how they were using a simpler gameplan. they probably didn't devote too much time to pitt's plethora of coverages). So our conclusion was, it's better to have somebody that is consistently GOOD rather than someone who is great for a period of time, makes a mistake, and tanks. In addition, he simply never looks nervous. He's got the mentality of every good kicker: forget the past and do your job. He doesn't let past mistakes make him tentative.

At first, I was arguing that Crist didn't have the benefit of the defense playing beastly and Cierre and Jonas going wild. But think about it. Tommy is much better in the red zone because of his quick release and accuracy. Even his much-maligned Pitt game, his td pass to Duval was gorgeous as was the Floyd td. Dayne doesn't release it fast enough for that. So, in conclusion, both qbs have limitations, but Rees gives us the best chance to win due to his consistent play. I won't even dignify the possibility of an untried redshirt freshman and a 185-pound 18 year old.

Anyway, that's my last contribution to this argument, as it is pointless since Kelly has already deemed Rees the unquestioned starter (evidenced by Rees playing the whole 2nd half) and he knows a hell of a lot more than us.

 

[koonja]

University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site

He looks 5 years older than he did 4 weeks ago. He looks weathered, doesn't appear confident as he usually does, and rarely looks the reporters in the eye.

My theory? Something is bothering him. I think he's really wishing Jonas didn't fumble that ball so ND start out (after that beautiful drive) 7-0. Crist settles in, team doesn't panic, and BK doesn't lose his cool. Crist is our QB. You know the rest.

That does not look or sound like a coach who just won a road game.

 

[NDinL.A.]

University of Notre Dame Official Athletic Site

He looks 5 years older than he did 4 weeks ago. He looks weathered, doesn't appear confident as he usually does, and rarely looks the reporters in the eye.

My theory? Something is bothering him. I think he's really wishing Jonas didn't fumble that ball so ND start out (after that beautiful drive) 7-0. Crist settles in, team doesn't panic, and BK doesn't lose his cool. Crist is our QB. You know the rest.

That does not look or sound like a coach who just won a road game.

Again, watch him address the team after the game. He was pumped.

You're searching for something that isn't there. The decision to switch QBs isn't haunting him, and his confidence isn't shaken.

You're right though, about something bothering him. Turnovers, stupid penalties, not good enough play from the QB spot...those are all bothering him. But that presser was nothing different than what we've always seen from him.

 

[pkt77242]

Rees defender's get way too defensive.

Any fan is going to question a QB who turns the ball over 2-3 times every game.

And the Crist supporters are being soooooo reasonable. Tell me the last time a team benched a QB after winning two in a row?

 

[irishff1014]

I was discussing the Crist vs. Rees topic with some of my friends on Saturday. Crist, when on a roll (UM, MSU, 1st 2 drives against USF), is very impressive. However, when he makes a bad mistake, (pick in end zone against USF), he freaks out and gets in his own head. He gets tentative and starts air-mailing throws or he gouges out holes in the turf. He also checks down constantly when he's nervous. We know his ceiling's higher but he's so inconsistent after a mistake. Thus far, I think even the biggest Crist fans should still be on board. (For the record, I love Dayne: fantastic guy, very intelligent and polite).

Tommy has a lower ceiling but is VERY consistent. He is more accurate than Crist and is better at reading coverages (when they're not very complicated - like Pitt's: watch the irish connection video 9 where Kelly talks about how they were using a simpler gameplan. they probably didn't devote too much time to pitt's plethora of coverages). So our conclusion was, it's better to have somebody that is consistently GOOD rather than someone who is great for a period of time, makes a mistake, and tanks. In addition, he simply never looks nervous. He's got the mentality of every good kicker: forget the past and do your job. He doesn't let past mistakes make him tentative.

At first, I was arguing that Crist didn't have the benefit of the defense playing beastly and Cierre and Jonas going wild. But think about it. Tommy is much better in the red zone because of his quick release and accuracy. Even his much-maligned Pitt game, his td pass to Duval was gorgeous as was the Floyd td. Dayne doesn't release it fast enough for that. So, in conclusion, both qbs have limitations, but Rees gives us the best chance to win due to his consistent play. I won't even dignify the possibility of an untried redshirt freshman and a 185-pound 18 year old.

Anyway, that's my last contribution to this argument, as it is pointless since Kelly has already deemed Rees the unquestioned starter (evidenced by Rees playing the whole 2nd half) and he knows a hell of a lot more than us.

Did you really just say that. I do believe there was 1 red zone turnover while Crist was in the game. And last time i checked we were not very good in the red zone.

 

[pkt77242]

Did you really just say that. I do believe there was 1 red zone turnover while Crist was in the game. And last time i checked we were not very good in the red zone.

Yep and how many trips to the redone? 2 I believe (the Gray fumble and his int). 2 trips to the redone in a half isn't exactly lighting the world on fire.

 

[irishff1014]

Your right it isn't. So he has 1 turnover in the redzone to Rees 4 i believe.

 

[pkt77242]

Your right it isn't. So he has 1 turnover in the redzone to Rees 4 i believe.

You are just harming your own argument.

Crist 1 turnover in the redzone in 1 half
Rees 4 in 7.

Would you like me to do the math out on this? Because it doesn't look good for your arguement.

 

[irishff1014]

We have 8 more games for him to change lets see.