Time to sit down and shut up!

[chadder20]

I am so tired of this crap I hear all the time on Brian Kelly and the coaching staff. Sorry to tell you all, BK is the last stop for us before we just fold and join the Ivy League. I think it’s sad that everyone jumps the guy for trying to do a job with team with such big holes in it. Everyone has always stated that we have superior talent and ND should win every game, EVERY QB is the Heisman winner and first round draft pick. Once again, sorry to say it, but this just simply is not the case and it has never been my entire life, and I am 35. Lou is the greatest coach that I have seen at ND, and he didn't have what the fans of ND wanted every year, so we ran him off, we let Davie back door him and we said so long sucker and no one can live up to whatever we think ND should be, but never has been in the modern football era. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks ND should be, because there is no way any team will be a National Champion contender unless we just sit down and shut up and let a guy do what he knows best instead of being on the defensive about if he is in over his head or not. ND hasn't competed for a National Championship since 1993 and that wasn't good enough either.

All I ask is take off the rose colored glasses and show me the superior talent, show me the depth behind the so called superior talent…because there is none, plain and simple.

Be a fan, respect the team, the coach, and watch a team grow into what it can be rather than sitting on your hind end complaining because the team isn't what your pipe dream says it should be! If you can't do that, move on to your local team and watch them have recruiting violations, which will give you something you can really be pissed about.

 

[Sportster]

I think the question isn't what talent does he have so much as does he beat teams with less talent? Ask that question, you'll get your answer.....he should be beating teams with less talent and be competitive with teams with equal talent. There's no reason,really, why ND isn't yearly in the Top 25. They at LEAST get enough talented players to do this, do they not? ND is ranked high in draft classes almost yearly. Your argument is gaining holes in it the longer I type....should I continue?.....if ND is doing WORSE than teams that don't get near the talent ND does...and I'd say there are a few of em ranked higher than ND....then that is indicative of something wrong with the staff.....

 

[Rhode Irish]

Numbers people will tell you that a team's record in "close" games (those decided by 7 points or less) is almost entirely based on luck. Teams' records in such games may lean heavily one way or the other in a given short sample, but they tend to even out over time.

Notre Dame is 0-2 in games decided by 7 points or less this year. As we have seen from watching those games, the outcomes were very much effected by luck. Sometimes things just bounce your way, and sometimes the opposite is true.

This isn't to say that Notre Dame is otherwise perfect and was ONLY beaten by luck; if they were perfect they would not have been in close games where luck could play a factor. Also, the 0-2 result isn't exactly unfair, either - you play in close games and your fate becomes random and 0-2 is every bit as likely as 2-0.

But lets keep some perspective about what has gone on. Yes, in college football a 2 game losing streak seems epic. Two losses put you out of the running for a national championship. But the season is not totally lost, like some people are acting. You cannot come to the conclusion, based on the first two games, that this team is a great team (obviously), but you can't conclude that they are terrible, either. They have plenty more opportunities to determine their own fate. Maybe some of the bounces will start to go their way.

 

[AllGoldEverything]

I am so tired of this crap I hear all the time on Brian Kelly and the coaching staff. Sorry to tell you all, BK is the last stop for us before we just fold and join the Ivy League. I think it’s sad that everyone jumps the guy for trying to do a job with team with such big holes in it. Everyone has always stated that we have superior talent and ND should win every game, EVERY QB is the Heisman winner and first round draft pick. Once again, sorry to say it, but this just simply is not the case and it has never been my entire life, and I am 35. Lou is the greatest coach that I have seen at ND, and he didn't have what the fans of ND wanted every year, so we ran him off, we let Davie back door him and we said so long sucker and no one can live up to whatever we think ND should be, but never has been in the modern football era. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks ND should be, because there is no way any team will be a National Champion contender unless we just sit down and shut up and let a guy do what he knows best instead of being on the defensive about if he is in over his head or not. ND hasn't competed for a National Championship since 1993 and that wasn't good enough either.

All I ask is take off the rose colored glasses and show me the superior talent, show me the depth behind the so called superior talent…because there is none, plain and simple.

Be a fan, respect the team, the coach, and watch a team grow into what it can be rather than sitting on your hind end complaining because the team isn't what your pipe dream says it should be! If you can't do that, move on to your local team and watch them have recruiting violations, which will give you something you can really be pissed about.

Good post!

 

[tankjeep]

Numbers people will tell you that a team's record in "close" games (those decided by 7 points or less) is almost entirely based on luck. Teams' records in such games may lean heavily one way or the other in a given short sample, but they tend to even out over time.

Notre Dame is 0-2 in games decided by 7 points or less this year. As we have seen from watching those games, the outcomes were very much effected by luck. Sometimes things just bounce your way, and sometimes the opposite is true.

This isn't to say that Notre Dame is otherwise perfect and was ONLY beaten by luck; if they were perfect they would not have been in close games where luck could play a factor. Also, the 0-2 result isn't exactly unfair, either - you play in close games and your fate becomes random and 0-2 is every bit as likely as 2-0.

But lets keep some perspective about what has gone on. Yes, in college football a 2 game losing streak seems epic. Two losses put you out of the running for a national championship. But the season is not totally lost, like some people are acting. You cannot come to the conclusion, based on the first two games, that this team is a great team (obviously), but you can't conclude that they are terrible, either. They have plenty more opportunities to determine their own fate. Maybe some of the bounces will start to go their way.

try 4 points of less this season. and i agree on your post as well.

we need to keep the faith and stay positive.

 

[Sportster]

Recruiting class rankings by year (Rivals):

2005 #10
2006 #8
2007 #8
2008 #2
2009 #21
2010 #14
2011 #10

Is it lack of talent? This stat says no it isn't. There are teams with much lower recruiting rankings getting more out of their players and that's been the bane of ND for years now. Michigan is kinda in the same boat here...their classes are regularly ranked high and the production is low.

 

[tankjeep]

Recruiting class rankings by year (Rivals):

2005 #10
2006 #8
2007 #8
2008 #2
2009 #21
2010 #14
2011 #10

Is it lack of talent? This stat says no it isn't. There are teams with much lower recruiting rankings getting more out of their players and that's been the bane of ND for years now. Michigan is kinda in the same boat here...their classes are regularly ranked high and the production is low.

sorry but recruiting rankings don't mean much, imo. it's all about how that talent is developed and clearly weis did a poor job developing talent on the defensive side of the ball. he definitely didn't leave bk with the cupboard bare like ty willingham did to weis, but bk still has to change the culture with these boys. and there hasn't been any depth til now.

this team will develop and improve thru out the season. let bk get his RKG's in and see what happens. but until then, we need to standfast and deal with the ups and downs.

 

[Sportster]

... it's all about how that talent is developed

You made my point for me...

 

[tankjeep]

You made my point for me...

nope, you don't understand what my point is & based on your approach to the results of the last two games there's no point in explaining it to you.

basically you are a lost cause and don't have a clue as to how low this program got when we went 3-9 under weis. if you did, then you'd know where i was coming from. just seems to me you are a fair weather fan.

 

[Sportster]

My point is talent development has been lacking,whether it's BK, or Weis, or Willingham. I said IN my post that this has been the bane of ND for years. And recruiting classes DO have a impact on a team....'most' of those in the top 25 have top tiered recruiting classes. Not all but most. I don't defend anyone, BK or otherwise. Production is what matters, in business, in anything of worth. You either got it or ya don't....no excuses...NO...excuses. Tired of em...

 

[DCirishfan]

nope, you don't understand what my point is & based on your approach to the results of the last two games there's no point in explaining it to you.

basically you are a lost cause and don't have a clue as to how low this program got when we went 3-9 under weis. if you did, then you'd know where i was coming from. just seems to me you are a fair weather fan.

Just because someone does not share your opinion does not make them a fair weather fan. BK could still end up being great. This year he has been terrible, hopefully that is about to change this week. I am sure we would all welcome that.

 

[tankjeep]

My point is talent development has been lacking,whether it's BK, or Weis, or Willingham. I said IN my post that this has been the bane of ND for years. And recruiting classes DO have a impact on a team....'most' of those in the top 25 have top tiered recruiting classes. Not all but most. I don't defend anyone, BK or otherwise. Production is what matters, in business, in anything of worth. You either got it or ya don't....no excuses...NO...excuses. Tired of em...

no doubt they do, but obviously you don't understand how that effected weis's coaching tenure here. you still don't have a clue.

 

[Sportster]

You don't know me, don't have a clue who I am. So your 'assumptions' are wrong. Keep em to yerself, K?....

 

[tankjeep]

Just because someone does not share your opinion does not make them a fair weather fan. BK could still end up being great. This year he has been terrible, hopefully that is about to change this week. I am sure we would all welcome that.

i said "seems to me...', i didn't say he was.

 

[tankjeep]

You don't know me, don't have a clue who I am. So your 'assumptions' are wrong. Keep em to yerself, K?....

i don't have to know someone to know if they have a clue. based on what you are saying, you don't.

 

[Sportster]

I'm the clueless one...ok, you got me, stud. You got the answers...I'll sit back and watch your stellar level of perception and marvel.....

 

[Grahambo]

Before this past recruiting season, when was the last time ND really had standouts on defense? I mean to say, yeah, we can pull in some sweet O recruits to help with recruit rankings but when it came to the D, outside of Manti Te'o, when was it we really put together a solid group? Last year it was Louis Nix and seemed about it. Before it was really just Te'o. Now, we bring in Lynch, Tuitt, Ishaq and have commitments from Tee and Darby. It's starting to come together.

The hardest part is waiting for it to click. The defense for example, no doubt are they much improved but we are still talking about guys like Harrison Smith who was at LB two years ago. I'm a big HS fan but he couldn't cover lick two years ago and struggled in the beginning of last year. A lot of these kids are still learning. It's not like they have been playing stout defense for 4 years. It just started to click at the end of last season.

BK even said yesterday that the difference between ND and a team like OSU is that OSU are making their mistakes against teams like Toledo. Alabama made 4 turnovers last week but it was Kent State. It's tough but these kids will get through it and so will we.

 

[AvesEvo]

I am so tired of this crap I hear all the time on Brian Kelly and the coaching staff. Sorry to tell you all, BK is the last stop for us before we just fold and join the Ivy League.

Notre Dame would never be accepted into the Ivy League, they are in the wrong geographic area. Try the MAC if they were to drop. This whole thing is really dumb, it isn't going to happen.

 

[WaveDomer]

I think BK is doing a good job. The main issue, IMHO, is that a lot of people bought into this team being some type of juggernaut. Not everyone bought into it, but a lot of people did. And this team is good and talented, but there are some real issues that were kind of glossed over in the euphoria of signing a great defensive class etc, etc. ND is thin at many positions. Plus, the freshman class is just that, a freshman class.

Look at each game this year. ND should have won each by 20 plus points. The team has been in position to win big each game. This team is very close to being very good. Most issues, I think, are with playing consistent for 60 minutes. But that's a problem with being kind of thin in spots. The offense has over 1000 yards in 2 games. And the defense has been really good with the glaring disaster of the end of the Michigan game. And yeah, Michigan stinks, but that's a rivalry game, at night, with 110 thousand, and a freak QB. Anything can happen, and does.

This is a long season. They will win a lot of games and be okay.

 

[chadder20]

Notre Dame would never be accepted into the Ivy League, they are in the wrong geographic area. Try the MAC if they were to drop. This whole thing is really dumb, it isn't going to happen.

Only thing I am saying here that NO coach in their right mind will take this job after BK. No matter if you like him or hate him, he is who we have, so deal with it. He is one of the most well respected coaches in the country and has a proven track record of building teams up to win. To see the scrutiny that we, as fans put him and his family through is insane. No other coach goes through that...none. Charlie was the same thing. I know its what they signed up for, but its crap, plain old crap. I think we all should know now that you cannot build this program up in two years and PLEASE don't give me recruiting class rankings because most of them never graduated from ND due to leaving the program. THIS is not Florida or Bama that will take any JUCO as long as they can play football. This is Notre Dame...and I think most of the so called fans here forget that. There is a little more to this school than being able to chicken scratch your name on NFL Contract and take money from boosters.

See the thing is the reason we love Notre Dame is the reason everyone here is complaining about Notre Dame. Because I know not too many people on here love ND because they were fans of during their Glory Years because you all would be over 50 years old at the very least. Any younger than that and you were too young to remember. Everyone here makes up this mystique that Notre Dame is something its not nor ever was. So I say go, move on because I sure in the hell don't want you around.

 

[Grahambo]

I think BK is doing a good job. The main issue, IMHO, is that a lot of people bought into this team being some type of juggernaut. Not everyone bought into it, but a lot of people did. And this team is good and talented, but there are some real issues that were kind of glossed over in the euphoria of signing a great defensive class etc, etc. ND is thin at many positions. Plus, the freshman class is just that, a freshman class.

Look at each game this year. ND should have won each by 20 plus points. The team has been in position to win big each game. This team is very close to being very good. Most issues, I think, are with playing consistent for 60 minutes. But that's a problem with being kind of thin in spots. The offense has over 1000 yards in 2 games. And the defense has been really good with the glaring disaster of the end of the Michigan game. And yeah, Michigan stinks, but that's a rivalry game, at night, with 110 thousand, and a freak QB. Anything can happen, and does.

This is a long season. They will win a lot of games and be okay.

I certainly did not. I stated in another thread, reasonable expectations. I pegged them at 9-3 but I would not be too upset with an 8-4 and a bowl win. Provided I can see actual improvement.

 

[micks60]

i don't have to know someone to know if they have a clue. based on what you are saying, you don't.

I agree with you sportster. This guy is the clueless one. We have the players. Development has been poor. That is not fixed in a just a year. Culture takes time to change and player development is still three years behind. Give it some time with a good college coach.

 

[OchoShayneO]

I am so tired of this crap I hear all the time on Brian Kelly and the coaching staff. Sorry to tell you all, BK is the last stop for us before we just fold and join the Ivy League. I think it’s sad that everyone jumps the guy for trying to do a job with team with such big holes in it. Everyone has always stated that we have superior talent and ND should win every game, EVERY QB is the Heisman winner and first round draft pick. Once again, sorry to say it, but this just simply is not the case and it has never been my entire life, and I am 35. Lou is the greatest coach that I have seen at ND, and he didn't have what the fans of ND wanted every year, so we ran him off, we let Davie back door him and we said so long sucker and no one can live up to whatever we think ND should be, but never has been in the modern football era. I'd really like to know what everyone thinks ND should be, because there is no way any team will be a National Champion contender unless we just sit down and shut up and let a guy do what he knows best instead of being on the defensive about if he is in over his head or not. ND hasn't competed for a National Championship since 1993 and that wasn't good enough either.

All I ask is take off the rose colored glasses and show me the superior talent, show me the depth behind the so called superior talent…because there is none, plain and simple.

Be a fan, respect the team, the coach, and watch a team grow into what it can be rather than sitting on your hind end complaining because the team isn't what your pipe dream says it should be! If you can't do that, move on to your local team and watch them have recruiting violations, which will give you something you can really be pissed about.

This is right on sir. Thank you for taking the time to type it.

 

[Jerry]

Recruiting class rankings by year (Rivals):

2005 #10
2006 #8
2007 #8
2008 #2
2009 #21
2010 #14
2011 #10

Is it lack of talent? This stat says no it isn't. There are teams with much lower recruiting rankings getting more out of their players and that's been the bane of ND for years now. Michigan is kinda in the same boat here...their classes are regularly ranked high and the production is low.

Go back and look at how many defensive lineman were in some of those Weis classes. Basically none. And no real talent at Defensive Back. The problem with recruiting rankings is if you get a 5 star QB and WR you will jump into the top 10 of the ranking no matter what the rest of the class looks like. The top programs have recruited well at all positions and ND did not over the last decade.

 

[kmoose]

I think the question isn't what talent does he have so much as does he beat teams with less talent? Ask that question, you'll get your answer.....he should be beating teams with less talent and be competitive with teams with equal talent. There's no reason,really, why ND isn't yearly in the Top 25. They at LEAST get enough talented players to do this, do they not? ND is ranked high in draft classes almost yearly. Your argument is gaining holes in it the longer I type....should I continue?.....if ND is doing WORSE than teams that don't get near the talent ND does...and I'd say there are a few of em ranked higher than ND....then that is indicative of something wrong with the staff.....

I'm not sure how any of this relates to ND, today? One of those coaches who consistently outperformed ND, with less talent, in recent years, was Brian Kelly!!! Now, you're saying that he's not getting it done, and needs to go?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

I think it's important to find a happy medium when discussing what is going on:

A) I support BK, and know he will get this team where we want them to be

B) I'm not a lemming that blindly supports him just because.......we have every right to be critical. 0-2 is unacceptable, plain and simple. I think calling for his head or saying he can't hack it is absolutely ludicrous at this point, but rationally expressing concern is perfectly ok IMO.

BK bashers = BK kool-aid chuggers.

 

[RDU Irish]

Sportster is looking like a troll to me. Agitating, pompous and "Ineptitude" pic don't add up to good mojo in my book.

 

[tankjeep]

I agree with you sportster. This guy is the clueless one. We have the players. Development has been poor. That is not fixed in a just a year. Culture takes time to change and player development is still three years behind. Give it some time with a good college coach.

did you even read my posts? what do you think i've been saying?

 

[tankjeep]

Go back and look at how many defensive lineman were in some of those Weis classes. Basically none. And no real talent at Defensive Back. The problem with recruiting rankings is if you get a 5 star QB and WR you will jump into the top 10 of the ranking no matter what the rest of the class looks like. The top programs have recruited well at all positions and ND did not over the last decade.

thank you. and when weis was hired, he was way behind in recruiting. so much so, that depth was non existent and weis had to throw true freshmen into the fire after brady quinn & co. graduated. weis developed offensive talent, but the defense suffered. and changing def. coordinators surely didn't help and jon tenuta was horrible in developing those talented defensive players (harrison smith).

weis did bring in very good recruiting classes, but again with no depth and hardly any development....it doesn't matter how talented the players are. so kelly came in and had to retool their mindset and the way they trained/prepared all the way down to the smallest detail.

and as someone mentioned earlier, it takes time to change the culture (which i mentioned in earlier post), but some how i'm the clueless one.

 

[aaronb]

nope, you don't understand what my point is & based on your approach to the results of the last two games there's no point in explaining it to you.

basically you are a lost cause and don't have a clue as to how low this program got when we went 3-9 under weis. if you did, then you'd know where i was coming from. just seems to me you are a fair weather fan.

Absolutely ridiculous to hang that 3-9 season on Charlie Weis. He had 70 freaking players on Schollie. Almost all of them true freshmen and sophs.

The bigger problem that is the sense of entitlement and unrealistic expectations of this fanbase as a whole. Every single loss CAN'T be a referendum on the whole program. Especially a program that graduates nearly 100% of its players and does things "The Right Way".

Some of you clowns would fire and hire a new coach every single year if you could.