NCAA and Academics

[irishog77]

NCAA committee approves increase in APR cutline - ESPN

Glad to see the NCAA is "toughening" their standards. Stuff like this makes me believe, even more, that the NCAA is a gutless institution desperately lacking not only real enforcement capabilities, but the ability to get their heads out of their @sses and truly acknowledge what is going on at most campuses.

I find it hard to believe when this was instituted in 2005, that suddenly, schools all of a sudden started caring about academics for their athletes and were able to clean up their pitiful performances in the classroom. The number of infractions they've cited for this and the penalties handed out have been an absolute joke. Yes, I'm talking to you specifically SEC and other corrupt state-run institutions.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

After recently graduating from a SEC school; academics for football players is a joke. I took a humanities (blow off) class and never received below a 95 on a test (not bragging, trying to prove a point). The school's top players were celebrating receiving 30's and 40's on the same tests. It was the same for baseball players (in a somewhat more difficult class).

I pray ND is not like that. I'm ashamed (if they stay and graduate) to say they will receive a degree from the same school as me. There is no way they received the same education I did.

 

[A Pac]

After recently graduating from a SEC school; academics for football players is a joke. I took a humanities (blow off) class and never received below a 95 on a test (not bragging, trying to prove a point). The school's top players were celebrating receiving 30's and 40's on the same tests. It was the same for baseball players (in a somewhat more difficult class).

I pray ND is not like that. I'm ashamed (if they stay and graduate) to say they will receive a degree from the same school as me. There is no way they received the same education I did.

Haha, that's a good one. We all know that SEC football players don't have to take tests. You almost had me there for a second.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

A good article on how soft this new benchmark truly is can be found here.

No, they're not trying to engineer a BCS Championship Game between Vanderbilt and Northwestern, or to force Alabama and Florida State to start recruiting valedictorians. As benchmarks go, frankly this one is kind of soft: Of the 64 Division I-A/Bowl Subdivision schools that appeared in a bowl game last season, only eight of them — Louisville, UTEP, Tulsa, Michigan, Southern Miss, BYU, Maryland and N.C. State — turned in an average APR score below 930 between the 2006-07 and 2009-10 academic years, according to the NCAA's database. Among the "Big Six" BCS conferences, the SEC had exactly zero schools below the new benchmark in that four-year window, and the Big Ten (Michigan), Big 12 (Colorado), Pac-10 (Washington State) and Big East (Louisville) had just one apiece. Altogether, only 17 of 120 FBS schools turned in an average APR score below 930 between 2006 and 2010, and fully half of that group had a score above 925.

 

[irishtrain]

I'll ask this question to some of you younger guys who have recently been in school or know whats going on-my opinion is that the schools will just 'in house' it-meaning 'hey they passed to our standards at this school' so as to take care of the ballplayers. I dont see this changing things much. SEC/etc schools are not going to sacrifice a thing. Notre Dame /Stanford /Northwestern etc still carries on with the other guys playing the game. I would like some opinions.

 

[irishtrain]

After recently graduating from a SEC school; academics for football players is a joke. I took a humanities (blow off) class and never received below a 95 on a test (not bragging, trying to prove a point). The school's top players were celebrating receiving 30's and 40's on the same tests. It was the same for baseball players (in a somewhat more difficult class).

I pray ND is not like that. I'm ashamed (if they stay and graduate) to say they will receive a degree from the same school as me. There is no way they received the same education I did.

Maybe this is my answer!!!!!! Thanks GoldenDomer

 

[irishog77]

The sad fact is that the NCAA could make the minimum standard 1000 (or 10,000 or whatever number they want to use) and these schools...will STILL meet the minimum standard. Everybody knew the graduation rates and literacy rates of SEC and other football factory schools were abysmal. But now, they all of a sudden, are getting smarter guys getting better grades across the board and across the nation? I call total BS on you, NCAA.

A good friend of mine and former work colleague was a manager for a SEC b-ball team a couple years ago (I don't know why, but I don't really want to say what school). Part of this new "academic progress" BS is that these schools now all have individuals in the athletic department responsible for academic progress for each team. Since these individuals are from the athletic department and actually considered as educators, they are allowed to not only "help" with homework and the writing of papers, but administer tests as well. Well it's very easy to administer a test to a player, on the bus or plane, and "forget" that, say, one of the test requirements was that it NOT be open book. Or give a test orally and say something similar to, "Is the answer a)one b)two or C) THREE." Good grief, the kid only had to listen to the emphasis this "athletic department official" would use for the various choices! Granted, this is one example of one school's b-ball team, but I would bet anything that this type of stuff goes on almost everywhere that athletics has a bigger emphasis than academics. Our education system and bureaucracy bows to the lowest common denominator, and these athletes fit that.

 

[koonja]

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

 

[crzychris]

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

Very true. But when parents are actively involved in their son's decision, other factors (like academics) are in play. I hope this is one of those cases.

 

[beryirish]

Very true. But when parents are actively involved in their son's decision, other factors (like academics) are in play. I hope this is one of those cases.

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

Myron Rolle for FSU is a perfect example against this fact. S #1 recruit coming out of HS in 2006.

He was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship and studied at St. Edmund Hall, Oxford University for the 2009–10 academic year in order to earn an MSc in medical anthropology. He was recently chosen as the second smartest professional athlete by the Sporting News.

He still got drafted by the Tennessee Titans last year in the sixth round but nonetheless academics came first for him.

I know that Myron is in the minority for top notch athletes that are this dead serious about academics but this example, for me, gives them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[koonja]

You can always find a reason to give someone the benefit of the doubt. It's called making the exception (Myron) the rule.

 

[BeauBenken]

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

...4 and 5 star guys make up half our roster...they don't care about academics?

 

[Rhode Irish]

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

I disagree. There are definitely some that feel the way you described, but for the most part that is a dumb way for a kid to think about college. While all highly-touted prospects coming out of high school should dream about playing out in the NFL, they should also be in touch with the reality that - even as a highly-touted high school player - the chances that they have will have a financially rewarding professional football career are not very good.

I don't think "most" top recruits are as dismissive of academics as you're proposing, especially not the type of kids Notre Dame is involved with. It may not be the #1 factor, but I do think it is a contributing factor and carries some level of significance for many high school athletes, especially the type of kids we would want at Notre Dame.

 

[koonja]

I'm not talking about NDs kids, obviously they're more likely to value academics than most school's kids. I'm talking about how 99% of recruits say that academics are very important, then they sign with some SEC school which only requires them to tie their own shoes to get accepted. That's why I put zero stock in some high school star saying academics are really guiding their college choice.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ok, I don't totally disagree with the idea that some blue-chip recruits only pay lip service to valuing academics, but I don't think it's 99%. Each kid is different. I do think that many kids do consider academics when choosing their school.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Let me go out on a crazy limb and predict that most 4/5 star kids with NFL dreams don't really care about academics, even if they say it's really important to them. College is college to them. It's a stepping stone towards their dream.

...4 and 5 star guys make up half our roster...they don't care about academics?

 

[IrishSteelhead]

You also gotta remember a kid that doesn't make the NFL from Alabama will still get dozens of job offers in T-town selling insurance or used cars for a higher salary than alot of people get because the good old boys engage in hero worship.

You're kidding yourself if you think being a star college player doesn't give a guy a huge advantage in a real interview (not insurance or cars) no matter what school the degree came from.

 

[BeauBenken]

I'm not talking about NDs kids, obviously they're more likely to value academics than most school's kids. I'm talking about how 99% of recruits say that academics are very important, then they sign with some SEC school which only requires them to tie their own shoes to get accepted. That's why I put zero stock in some high school star saying academics are really guiding their college choice.

Just because someone signs with an SEC school that doesn't require much doesn't mean they aren't after a quality education.

 

[crzychris]

Just because someone signs with an SEC school that doesn't require much doesn't mean they aren't after a quality education.

A good point. A normal applicant would find that Florida admissions are almost as rigorous as Notre Dame. Smart kids do go to SEC schools. Granted, it seems like these state schools are more likely to skew the reqs for football players, but that doesn't make them all bad.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

A good point. A normal applicant would find that Florida admissions are almost as rigorous as Notre Dame. Smart kids do go to SEC schools. Granted, it seems like these state schools are more likely to skew the reqs for football players, but that doesn't make them all bad.

UF accepts 42% of applicants. Notre Dame accepts 28%. I wouldn't say its "almost" as selectve as ND, though it's a good public university.

 

[crzychris]

UF accepts 42% of applicants. Notre Dame accepts 28%. I wouldn't say its "almost" as selectve as ND, though it's a good public university.

It is a stretch, but 91% of their applicants carry a GPA 3.7 or higher. As selective as ND? No. As difficult as ND? No. But I'd guess their quality is pretty high, much higher than your stereotypical state school.