Linebackers

HoosierIrish

New member
Messages
117
Reaction score
16
I'm just a little confused on how we place our linebackers. So we don't really recruit ILB's but instead put OLB recruits at ILB? When we recruit a WDE that translates to our cat position, but would someone like Noah Spence be limited to the Cat position, because if we have him and Ishaq wouldn't it be in our best interest to have them both out there somehow. I just want to know that when i see OLB Noor Davis or Ifeadi Odenigbo do i assume they are recruiting them at the dog, ILB or cat position? Or are they just recruited as LB's and place when they get on campus.
 

jason_h537

The King is Back
Messages
6,945
Reaction score
581
I'm just a little confused on how we place our linebackers. So we don't really recruit ILB's but instead put OLB recruits at ILB? When we recruit a WDE that translates to our cat position, but would someone like Noah Spence be limited to the Cat position, because if we have him and Ishaq wouldn't it be in our best interest to have them both out there somehow. I just want to know that when i see OLB Noor Davis or Ifeadi Odenigbo do i assume they are recruiting them at the dog, ILB or cat position? Or are they just recruited as LB's and place when they get on campus.

It's a il more complicated than that. Usually a WDE will translate to LB, not always. Also the inside/outside thing is not right either. The staff has a model they look for. They like big MLB like Grace (6-4, 240) but will make exceptions for guys they feel are special like James Ross (6-0, 200).
 

HoosierIrish

New member
Messages
117
Reaction score
16
It's a il more complicated than that. Usually a WDE will translate to LB, not always. Also the inside/outside thing is not right either. The staff has a model they look for. They like big MLB like Grace (6-4, 240) but will make exceptions for guys they feel are special like James Ross (6-0, 200).

Thanks, I get the positions i think, Dog= more coverage cat= more pass rush and ILB are more big guys to stop run and able to take on gaurds, correct me if any of that is wrong, but a guy like Noah Spence, who you had said early on in his thread probly projects to an OLB, is listed at 6'4 245 on rivals.. based on the big ILB doesn't that put him in that category. I know most recruit i can just read their profile and find out where the staff likes them, i'm asking these questions more so on the guys that are more under the radar right now, but right now it looks like i just have to wait and see what the staff thinks of them. Thanks for the help tho
 

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
Actually it's even more complicated yet, I believe. Kelly throws you curveballs in his recruiting because he takes seriously his "skill", "big skill", "power" way of thinking. We'll get better at figuring him out once we see more seasons and what really happens.

As of now, if we think that a guy who the scouting services are listing as a linebacker [of whatever type] is being recruited by Kelly AS a linebacker, then he refers to this guy as "big skill". By that he means that the player could end up anywhere along the linebacking array, depending on how he/Diaco end up seeing the player. If Kelly is recruiting a player listed by the services as a DE [of whatever type], then we have to guess whether Kelly sees him as "big skill" [i.e. linebacker] or "power" [probably d-line].

I believe that this is relevant in recruiting, because I believe that he talks to the recruits this way, and they come to ND not necessarily expecting to play at just one certain position, but are trusting the staff to place them where they'll do the team the most good, and personally flower while they're at it.

This even applies to whether some "power" ends up on the D or O side of the ball. The offensive "big skill" positions are, by the way, TE and "fullback" [if any]. Kelly's definition of "big skill" seems to incorporate the ability to perform skills which are significantly different from one another as a constant aspect of your play [example, superior tackling AND pass coverage; or, for a tight end, superior route-running, catching, AND run-blocking].

I'm just as flummoxed as anyone as to exactly how Kelly/Diaco see each "linebacker" particularly, or each "DE" where that player may end up anywhere [Rabasa may be an example, or even Ishaq for that matter].
 

ACamp1900

Counting my ‘bet against ND’ winnings
Messages
48,946
Reaction score
11,225
The "Mix" of players definately plays in with who fits where as well as what Jay and OMM have laid out... some coaches find the best possbile fit for their scheme and go go from there, kind of "plug in"... other coaches find the best talent that they can see fitting in any given variation of a scheme and adjust accordingly... of course no staff fits either 100% but Kelly and Co. seem to be more of the second.
 
Last edited:
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
In addition to everything mentioned, I believe talking about speed and length is critical. (as well as big skill, especially for coverage linebacker.)

For example you have Ishaq Williams, who is damn near six-and-one-half feet tall, but runs with wide receiver speed, playing (what I believe will be second rush OLB, (Cat).

The most interesting case is Prince Shembo, who moved from inside to outside CAT to DOG. He is in a fight to start at DOG with Danny Spond. Both Shembo and Spond play long. Their arm span is (considerably) more than their height and they can change direction quickly and accelerate with blinding speed. Playing either at OLB for the cover position is like having an extra (very large) strong safety, with an attitude. (When both of those guys, particularly Spond hit during the Spring game, it had a whole different sound!)

As far is ILB, size (body density) is really important because of how important it is for them to defeat offensive guards who come charging at them tipping the scale around 300lbs. I shook hands with Manti Te’o, briefly, and was awe struck how much more developed physically he was than last year. Next to KLM and EJ who are ABSOLUTE BEASTS, I mean BLOCKS OF GRANITE, he looks most changed to me. (I am excluding offensive linemen, because I laugh at the criticism they received after the spring game. They are HUGE, and I will be surprised if they don’t BURRY some people this year. Not only are the starters massive and in shape, you have a whole second line behind them ready to go. I mean it watch out for Nichols and Lombard!)

The other thing nobody has discussed yet about either of the OLB positions is the smarts required. I think you have to be smarter to play Diaco's defense than most, but both OLB positions require players to make a series of decisions almost instantly, as well as rule out what cannot happen in a given play to enhance (correct) anticipation. THAT WAS A BIG PROBLEM EARLY LAST SEASON WHICH RESOLVED IN THE FINAL FOUR GAMES.

OMM (who is one of the sharpest on this site) has a good point about Coach Kelly. Often times he lets the player find his position, instead of starting with a whole lot of preconceived notions. Let me add to that: You can bet that every player is evaluated as to body type. This is not limited to height and weight, or 40-yard dash speed. He is looking for shoulder height, arm length, hip and chest width and so forth. In addition, the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fiber, (explosive speed to endurance), thigh to hip ratio, lose to tight jointed, ability to put on weight, etc., is all evaluated, often before a prospect is offered.

I was struck during the spring game, how the body types of players at different positions fit their positions for the first time in a long time, and how the builds of some veteran players have changed in this last year!
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,170
Reaction score
6,450
You can also tell the priorities of the coaching staff in how they recruit their guys on the outside...they want to get after the QB PERIOD and they believe the guys they bring in (Williams, Rabasa, Councell, hopefully Davis/Spence, Odenigbo) can adapt/learn the position and the coverage responsibilities, while at the same time allowing them to do what they do best, rush the passer.
 

Zibby32

New member
Messages
224
Reaction score
14
Bogtrotter07, thank you my fine friend!

You can bet that every player is evaluated as to body type. This is not limited to height and weight, or 40-yard dash speed. He is looking for shoulder height, arm length, hip and chest width and so forth. In addition, the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fiber, (explosive speed to endurance), thigh to hip ratio, lose to tight jointed, ability to put on weight, etc., is all evaluated, often before a prospect is offered.

Finally someone is catching onto the "body type" talk. I am desperately trying to explain this in the Jarron Jones thread. Every position has one, particularly in the 3-4 defense. You are looking for a particular build, as well as skill set, in all 11 players.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
mbeckha,

Is that you? lol.

...talk about a conspiracy theory.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
Bogtrotter07, thank you my fine friend!


Quote:
You can bet that every player is evaluated as to body type. This is not limited to height and weight, or 40-yard dash speed. He is looking for shoulder height, arm length, hip and chest width and so forth. In addition, the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fiber, (explosive speed to endurance), thigh to hip ratio, lose to tight jointed, ability to put on weight, etc., is all evaluated, often before a prospect is offered.

Finally someone is catching onto the "body type" talk. I am desperately trying to explain this in the Jarron Jones thread. Every position has one, particularly in the 3-4 defense. You are looking for a particular build, as well as skill set, in all 11 players.

You're welcome! (Dshans, OMM, Johnny and Bo, please note: you're not your.)

First, some side business. Johnny what conspiracy are you hot on the trail of now?

I will go look at the Jarron Jones thread and see what’s up. Us kinda guys havta stik togethur, (intelligrunt).

I’ve never seen this guy in person (Jones) or a whole body shot. What body type is he? A good example is Zack Martin, versus either Kapron Lewis-Moore or Ethan Johnson. All three of those dudes are a solid 300(+) pounds, but their builds are not remotely the same. Zack is built just like a killer left tackle should be, he’s just about as wide as the Mississippi from top to bottom. The defensive ends have very big legs, but they are much narrower in the pelvis.
 
J

johnnykillz

Guest
I'm mum on the elaboration of my theory...



I digress: I'm wrong also now I think about it; mmbeckha was much more into workout regimens, not into body composition.

Disregard. Damn. I'll find him someday, and when I do, he's gonna kick neuter's arse again - WWF style!
 

Ben E.

CRUSADER
Messages
892
Reaction score
87
the needs of a highschool team dictate where a kid may play and that doesnt always translate at the next level. example: i had a 6-3 240 teamate in HS and he was our tailback...hardly ever played defense. well he started 3 years Posu as a LB and is still playing in the nfl. another example would be justin utupo played DE in HS and has played ILB and OLB in his short time at ND. its the type of build and skill that they look for rather than HS position played.
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
The dshans Linguistic Services ["Curing the Internet One Syllable at a Time"] appreciates the "you're".
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
You can bet that every player is evaluated as to body type. This is not limited to height and weight, or 40-yard dash speed. He is looking for shoulder height, arm length, hip and chest width and so forth. In addition, the ratio of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fiber, (explosive speed to endurance), thigh to hip ratio, lose to tight jointed, ability to put on weight, etc., is all evaluated, often before a prospect is offered.

I would love to have that information for every position.
 

rtrn2glory

Well-known member
Messages
16,170
Reaction score
6,450
it would make us all look a lot smarter on these threads that's for sure.
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
Someone out there must have details on what our position profiles look like.

I can't see why that would need to be protected information. It's probably easy enough to infer if you look at all the kids we've offered for each position.
 

dshans

They call me The Dribbler
Messages
9,624
Reaction score
1,181

That's a new one for me ... it might just be that I'm behind the times yet again. I'm continually playing catch-up.

"lolling on (the) floor laughing?"

"laughing on (the) farging linoleum?"

"looking out for literalists?"

"looking only for love?"
 

KPENN

Well-known member
Staff member
Messages
13,017
Reaction score
11,340
That's a new one for me ... it might just be that I'm behind the times yet again. I'm continually playing catch-up.

"lolling on (the) floor laughing?"

"laughing on (the) farging linoleum?"

"looking out for literalists?"

"looking only for love?"

LOFL is Laughing out f****** loud
 

irishpat183

Banned
Messages
5,625
Reaction score
504
Linebackers?? Supposedly we have some hawiian kid that is a tackling machine.

Could be pretty good, but I have my doubts.
 

jason_h537

The King is Back
Messages
6,945
Reaction score
581
Also got to remember our MLBers have to be able to drop into coverage as well.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
You're looking for love in all the wrong places on that one.

Here is my million dollar idea for the day: "Damn, OMM, you could write a guidebook!"
 
B

Bogtrotter07

Guest
I would love to have that information for every position.

it would make us all look a lot smarter on these threads that's for sure.

Someone out there must have details on what our position profiles look like.

I can't see why that would need to be protected information. It's probably easy enough to infer if you look at all the kids we've offered for each position.

Comme Il Faut:

YouTube - Dr Evil's Laughing Scene
 
Last edited:

Old Man Mike

Fast as Lightning!
Messages
8,965
Reaction score
6,453
Well, I AM blind enough to write a guide book, so I've got some of the qualifications in this modern world of advice givers.
 

tommyIRISH23

Well-known member
Messages
1,629
Reaction score
156
The philosophy is very simple. 4/5 pittbulls vs. a squad of cats. Unleash hell
 
Top