You guys will love this

[irishpat183]

Lastly, to everyone saying Notre Dame = Duke... yes, there are a lot of similarities.

Similarities:
Lots of Championships
Lots of haters
Strong academics

Dissimilarities:
Everything else

The main difference between the schools is the fan base. While Notre Dame embraces fans of every type and all of us support our players win/lose/draw that cannot be said for Duke. You hear lots of athletes talking about how much it means to be part of the Notre Dame family... you see us applaud our players after every game regardless of outcome... and while we might razz Brian Smith for not keeping contain on message boards everyone would give him a pat on the back if they saw him walking around.

Duke? Well it's kinda hard to describe... but there is something almost racist about the way they treat their athletes. Seriously, it's very weird historically how they've embraced some of their white players but treated black ones as almost indentured servants. You here all kinds of stories about athletes getting bad vibes or feeling unaccepted or unwanted when they get to Duke. Now, I'm sure the vast majority of Dukies aren't actually "racist," but they certainly divide the campus base on who's a student versus athlete. They also don't have nearly the diversity or breadth of fanbase of Notre Dame even though they are certainly a national brand.

As for doing things the "right way" there have been far more than whispers for a very long time that they do not. See Chris Duhon's mom getting hooked up with a posh job with no skills and having multiple cars after he signed with Duke. Her boss? A Duke booster. Also, their handling of the lacrosse rape scandal was certainly not doing it the right way. And post scandal there are many professors who refuse to offer their classes to athletes. That's really doing it the right way? By being exclusionary to athletes because you don't think they're "fit" to take your class?

With all of that being said, I love Coach K and have immense respect for Duke as an academic institution. A bunch of kids from my high school went there and they are some of the brightest people I have ever met. And certainly not everyone exhibits the negative qualities of the influential minority there.

But please stop saying Duke = Notre Dame. They are quite different in everything from their core principles (religion) to their approach to "doing things the right way" regarding athletics.

Do you have any proof of any of that going on at Duke, other than "whispers" as you put it? Because I'm sure there are just as many "whispers" about ND. You dont' think an ND booster has hooked somebody up before (see Jarvis Edison). Not to mention the handling of the Sullivan accident and the supposed rape case at ND? You don't think people are talking about the way we're handling that?

I think Duke does it right, and in fact, does it better than most schools. ND and Duke are as close as it gets.

 

[dshans]

He is a North Carolina fan; He has every right to hate Duke. (dshans, did I use that semi-colon appropriately?)

Mr. McGibblets: had you not capitalized "he" all would be copacetic structurally.

Stylistically I'd have gone with a simple period to separate the two statements, or a spare "so" or "and" connection without the capital "h."

All that said, bear in mind that I'm just an ND snob and nebbish, so take all I say with a huge grain of salt.

 

[Old Man Mike]

dshans, as always, speaks Truth---in everything.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

Mr. McGibblets: had you not capitalized "he" all would be copacetic structurally.

Stylistically I'd have gone with a simple period to separate the two statements, or a spare "so" or "and" connection without the capital "h."

All that said, bear in mind that I'm just an ND snob and nebbish, so take all I say with a huge grain of salt.

Haha, I just wanted to switch up some sentence structure. Figured you'd appreciate the attempt.

 

[tadman95]

Grew up and live in North Carolina, UNC fans are by far the worse. Maybe it's just because there are more of them.

If you want to get a good argument going, ask a Duke and UNC fan who is the better coach; Dean Smith or Mike Krzyzewski? Sit back, grab a beer and watch the fireworks. Great fun...

 

[Me2SouthBend]

A UNC team that needed huge choke jobs and a lot of luck from Miami and Clemson to barely eek their way into the finals. I mean seriously do you guys actually watch ACC basketball or do you just look at ranking and listen to pundits? I challenge you to tell me one quality win UNC has this year besides Duke at home and Kentucky at home. And also tell me one quality win Duke has without Irving besides UNC.

Hint: they don't have any, but they have tons of bad losses including some to non-tournament teams. They both got high seeds as product of misleading SOS (and by default a higher RPI) + pre-season hype... not results on the court. UNC has as many losses to non-tournie teams (2... one by 20 to Georgia Tech) as they have wins over top 25 opponents. That is really sad. Duke's biggest quality win without Irving is #7 seed Temple and they have a loss to a non-tourney team (Virginia Tech) in that stretch.

Duke and UNC are both frauds at seeds they were given... but no more so than Florida and BYU. Here's how it should've gone down:

#1 OSU, Kansas, Pitt, ND
#2 SDSU, Kentucky, Duke, Syracuse
#3 UConn, Louisville, UNC, Texas
#4 Purdue, Florida, BYU, Arizona/Wisconsin

Tons of bad losses including some to non tournament teams? They lost 4 games total. 1 loss was at Va Tech who in the opinion of many got screwed by the selection committee, and that is their only loss to a non tournament teams. Their others were at NC in a very tough environment, at FSU a place where they always struggle and at MSG to a St J's team that took down a number of good teams on their home floor and is a #6 seed. That makes 1 loss to a non tournament team. That is it. Other than that, they beat the teams on their schedule. And yes, I do watch ACC Ball. I didn't hear alot of people saying Duke should be a 3 seed or lower, so you can probably argue they should be a 2, but I wouldn't go any lower than that. Florida and Pitt got too much love, as did a few others.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Duke's a good basketball team with a great on-court leader [Smith] and a great coach. This is a recipe for a lot of success in the NCAA tournament. We're similar. Maybe our coach hasn't had Coach K's resume yet, but he's pretty good, and our on-court leadership is superb.

If either team is worthy it has to beat everyone anyway. Most of this thread seems emotionalism over the fact that it would have been nice [in many ways, including recruiting] to be a #1 seed, and that a legitimate case could be made for it going the other way.

Duke grad Jay Billus gave us props on national TV when he suggested that we were worthy of a #1 over both Duke and Pitt. That sounds to me like we're there on reputation; now to back it up on the floor with at least an Elite Eight.

 

[IrishLax]

Do you have any proof of any of that going on at Duke, other than "whispers" as you put it? Because I'm sure there are just as many "whispers" about ND. You dont' think an ND booster has hooked somebody up before (see Jarvis Edison). Not to mention the handling of the Sullivan accident and the supposed rape case at ND? You don't think people are talking about the way we're handling that?

I think Duke does it right, and in fact, does it better than most schools. ND and Duke are as close as it gets.

Let's ignore any violations (I know they were put on probation at least once but I agree they do it the right way compared to 99.9% of schools) and focus on the part I've bolded.

1. It wasn't a rape case at Notre Dame, the allegation was that someone touched a breast and the touch was unwanted. Not very important to the main point, but it really annoys me when people call it "rape."
2. I am unsure how familiar you are with the Duke lacrosse scandal and the minutia of what happened, but basically Duke acted in the opposite fashion of how we handled our incidents (i.e. acted reactionary and jumped to conclusions) and paid dearly for it after due process was given to the accused. So while you will always have some people who don't like your approach to any given incident, it is an objective fact that a measured and patient response waiting for facts is the right way to handle things and appeasing the media lynch mob by betraying your own is the wrong way.

 

[dshans]

Haha, I just wanted to switch up some sentence structure. Figured you'd appreciate the attempt.

And indeed I did! "A" for effort, "B minus" for execution.

 

[dshans]

... UNC fans are by far the worse. Maybe it's just because there are more of them.

If you want to get a good argument going, ask a Duke and UNC fan who is the better coach; Dean Smith or Mike Krzyzewski? Sit back, grab a beer and watch the fireworks. Great fun...

Safety/strength in numbers? To hell with truth! 100,000 wildebeests will outlast a dozen prides of lions every time!

 

[irishpat183]

Let's ignore any violations (I know they were put on probation at least once but I agree they do it the right way compared to 99.9% of schools) and focus on the part I've bolded.

1. It wasn't a rape case at Notre Dame, the allegation was that someone touched a breast and the touch was unwanted. Not very important to the main point, but it really annoys me when people call it "rape."
2. I am unsure how familiar you are with the Duke lacrosse scandal and the minutia of what happened, but basically Duke acted in the opposite fashion of how we handled our incidents (i.e. acted reactionary and jumped to conclusions) and paid dearly for it after due process was given to the accused. So while you will always have some people who don't like your approach to any given incident, it is an objective fact that a measured and patient response waiting for facts is the right way to handle things and appeasing the media lynch mob by betraying your own is the wrong way.

I'm not disagreeing with you, my friend. My point is that ND and Duke are very, very similiar when it comes to public perception. And they're both "academics first" institutions that have some (or had) success in the athletic arena. Which creates a lot of haters.

And thank you for correcting me on that "rape allegation". I was under the impression that it was rape. Did they ever find out who that player was?

As far as the Duke lacrosse case, I think the mishandling of it had more to due with the area (high profile whites in a poor black area) and racial tension. In that situation, where the Rev and Al sharpton are destroying your school, you tend to jump through the media hoops to prove them wrong, rather than what you should be doing...which is protecting your students.

 

[IrishLax]

I'm not disagreeing with you, my friend. My point is that ND and Duke are very, very similiar when it comes to public perception. And they're both "academics first" institutions that have some (or had) success in the athletic arena. Which creates a lot of haters.

And thank you for correcting me on that "rape allegation". I was under the impression that it was rape. Did they ever find out who that player was?

As far as the Duke lacrosse case, I think the mishandling of it had more to due with the area (high profile whites in a poor black area) and racial tension. In that situation, where the Rev and Al sharpton are destroying your school, you tend to jump through the media hoops to prove them wrong, rather than what you should be doing...which is protecting your students.

Yes, and I can PM it to you if you want. I believe there are laws prohibiting his name being published or otherwise revealed in open forum.

 

[Irish Insanity]

^I believe someone put it out in an earlier forum on here.

 

[Old Man Mike]

I don't believe that we have been so unfeeling as to publish the name here---it has been done so in lesser fora.

 

[irishpat183]

I don't believe that we have been so unfeeling as to publish the name here---it has been done so in lesser fora.

Of course. I'm not here to expose a young man. Fair enough.