Can any of Notre Dame's 2007-2009 struggles be placed on Jimmy?

[Mirer3Powlus]

Got into a spirited debate tonight with some of my friends who don't really sympathize with the Notre Dame cause after we started talking about famous college busts, and of course the golden armed Jimmy Clausen (he of the four national championships and 60 touchdowns a year lore) was brought up.

- Their argument: If he was as good as all the scouts said, he'd be able to lead his team to more than six wins a year.

- My argument: Name me another quarterback who was named All - American and who played as well as he did his junior year with a defense as bad as our 2009 squad (I don't think there are any; at least not any in recent memory). Could anyone have led that team to better than 6 - 6?

It really got me thinking, though. Do you think Clausen's career at Notre Dame was a disappointment? I wish his talents would have come along at a different time in our history, but overall I think he played as well as he could with what he was dealt.

 

[JKhrome1ND]

I wish he would have stayed for his senior year, that way he wouldn't have struggled so much this year in the Pro's, he definitely has talent, but IMO i think another year in college would have helped him for the NFL, that and we probably would have been in a Major BCS Bowl this year.

Do you think Clausen's career at Notre Dame was a disappointment?

But as for your question, no i don't think so, i think he was coming along just fine, just look at his stats from his freshmen year to his junior year ........

FR - Completion 56.3% ~ Passing Efficiency of 103.85 ~ 1,254 Passing ~ 9 TD's (7 pass, 2 rush) and 6 interceptions

SO - Completion 60.9% ~ Passing Efficiency of 132.5 ~ 3,172 yards ~ 25 TD's and 17 interceptions

JR - Completion 68.8% ~ Passing Efficiency 161.42 ~ 3,722 yards ~ 28 TD's and 4 interceptions

could you imagine if Clausen would have stayed for his senior year with the likes of having Floyd-Rudoph-Allen-Riddick, (who knows how those games would have turned out and if those injuires even happen) are 8-5 record we had with Crist/Rees this year would have been atleast 11-2 or 12-1 sh*t maybe even 13-0 !! If we had Clausen this year i know we would have beat Tulsa and Navy and we lost some very close games to Michigan and Mich St in which i believe with Jimmy we would have won those games. the Stanford game is a TOSS UP how rad would it have been to see (Jimmy Clausen vs Andrew Luck) !!

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Jimmy Clausen is the most talented QB ND has ever had.

Weis and his defense were the busts.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

Defense, wins games. I think JC was very good however if the D was half as good they would of won more games and JC would of been looked at as one of the best.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Clausen was like Beetle Bailey in a rocket attack, ducking D-linemen his first two years. In his junior year, he was the most accurate thrower I'd seen at ND. Hard to blame him for on-field performance just because he hadn't grown-up personally when he strut onto campus.

 

[irishtrinity]

"You're never as good as everyone tells you when you win, and you're never as bad as they say when you lose." our boy Holtz

i think he was a great leader and very good passer. i like dayne better, and tommy with his games has shown so much..

 

[phork]

Clausen was great, because his supporting cast was pretty good as well. He was hampered his last year by turf toe though. Actually I think it was 2 torn ligaments in his foot.

 

[Ironman8]

Clausen's take:

February 25, 2011

Clausen: Experience will help

Panthers QB Jimmy Clausen did an interview with former Dallas WR Michael Irvin on WQAM in Miami. Here's a transcript, via Sports Radio Interviews

What his rookie season in the NFL was like:

“You know it was definitely a tough season for us going 2-14. We definitely had a lot of ups and downs, mostly downs this season, but the biggest thing I am going to take away from this season is just the experience and just going through the entire season struggling and going through that adversity. I think that is just going to help us down the road and there is a lot of things I learned. I picked up the speed of the game, more knowledge of playing in the National Football League and just trying to make plays out there. Like I said, I dealt with a lot of adversity this year and I just think that it is going to help down the road.”

If Carolina has a solid group of young players that to build upon to make a run at a Super Bowl in the coming years:

“Definitely. There is a great group of guys assembled in Carolina. That is the exciting part, obviously, we were young last year and will still be this upcoming year but growing together and being real young is just going to help us down the road. Like you said, going 1-15 and then 3-12 and just keep building upon that you guys went to four Super Bowls after that, I think. That is our goal right now to keep building and improving from the year before.”

Whether he was ready to play when he became the starting quarterback last season:

“I don’t know. You always have to be ready to be called on. That is what they drafted you for. Some guys have that time to be able to sit back and watch and I got to do that for the first three quarters of the game in the first game of the season and I got thrown in there on the last series cause Matt Moore went down, but you just have to be ready to go from day one. I think it was a tough situation but at the end of the day it is only going to help me get better.”

What kind of experience the NFL Scouting Combine is and how important it is in the draft:

“You know I think it is definitely important. The draft is a long, long process and the combine is a big portion of that process and you have your Pro Day and then you are just waiting, sitting back until draft day. For me, last year going in I couldn’t workout or do anything because I just had surgery on my foot but it is a good time to go into those meetings and meet the coaches, meet the general managers, and just to sit with them one-on-one face-to-face and sometimes it is going to be the first time you are going to meet a head coach or a general manger, so you could get your story out there and just get a feel for that and they could get a feel for you as well.”

What it is like to be around the best NFL prospects at the Scouting Combine after playing and watching them:

“It is awesome. It is an amazing experience. For the guys that are going through it right now, it is going to be a tough time for them because they have a lot of things to deal with but at the end of the day it is a dream come true for them and they get the opportunity to go out there on the field and compete with the best college players in their class coming out. It is a great experience meeting different guys you either watched or played against that those relationships and friendships will last for the rest of your life.”

-- Darin Gantt

Inside the Panthers: Clausen: Experience will help

 

[IrishLax]

Clausen, while he might not have been the greatest "guy," is just about the only person you CAN'T blame for the struggles. He was freaking phenomenal last year with torn ligaments in his foot that required surgery. I'm fully convinced he'll be a solid pro QB if he ever gets put on a team with quality receivers or an offensive line. The Panthers are just completely awful right now with no signs of getting better.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I DO think that he lacked a little bit of moxie-- think of us stalling with 4 trys on USCs 3 or having that bum drive against Navy, giving up the TD and then marching the ball down in like 3 plays to score...

That being said, I would have taken Jimmy over any QB in the country his last year. So no, don't blame it on him.

 

[Riddickulous]

Clausen was the least of our problems.

 

[Riddickulous]

I DO think that he lacked a little bit of moxie-- think of us stalling with 4 trys on USCs 3 or having that bum drive against Navy, giving up the TD and then marching the ball down in like 3 plays to score...

That being said, I would have taken Jimmy over any QB in the country his last year. So no, don't blame it on him.

Two terrible examples.

Against USC, he threw a fade to Rudolph that he bobbled and came down with out of bounds. Then he threw a quick slant to Tate, who did a terrible job getting off of the press, and the ball fell incomplete. Then he went to Kamara and he slipped. You can hardly blame Clausen.

Then against Navy, Clausen threw deep to Floyd on the first play of that drive, and a wide open Floyd awkwardly made a stab at the ball and dropped it.

 

[GowerND11]

Yeah I can't blame the struggles on Clausen. When you have an offense, especially a passing game, that was as good as it was in '09 that is saying something about the quarterback. He never lost us a game last year. It was Tenuda's terrible blitzing schemes, Weis' inability to develop players other that WR and QB, and the fact that our players just didn't know how to win.

 

[IrishinSyria]

Two terrible examples.

Against USC, he threw a fade to Rudolph that he bobbled and came down with out of bounds. Then he threw a quick slant to Tate, who did a terrible job getting off of the press, and the ball fell incomplete. Then he went to Kamara and he slipped. You can hardly blame Clausen.

Then against Navy, Clausen threw deep to Floyd on the first play of that drive, and a wide open Floyd awkwardly made a stab at the ball and dropped it.

Not blaming Clausen and like I said, I'd rather have him than any other QB in college football, but QBs aren't just ball throwing machines; fairly or unfairly, they are responsible for the performance of every single player on the offense. For whatever reason there were games (Pittsburgh, Navy, USC) when the offense had a shot to win or tie the game-- and didn't. Qbs who get those wins have "moxie". Nobody really knows what it is, but Clausen didn't get those wins.

and the fact that our players just didn't know how to win.

Exactly. This falls on the whole team but especially on the leaders; on any great football team, the QB is the leader.

 

[anarin]

when I think of our problems the last few years I dont think of Jimmy Clausen. I think of the end of the UCONN game where the defense looked lost on how to tackle.

That game summed up the past 3 years.

 

[IrishMoore1]

1. Clausen never had an Oline to protect him even up to 2009.
2. No Oline = no running game. All the pressure was put on clausen to produce offense for us
3. The defense sucked. Was absolutely horrible. When u don't have a defense, you almost always do no better than .500
4. Clausen was really really good. His only downside was his leadership skills. He never really stepped up to lead the team when the team needed leadership in certain games.

It doesn't matter how good a QB is. If he doesn't have the pieces to help him, he cannot do better than .500 for a team.

 

[IrishInColumbus]

I will go ahead and say Clausen was the most talented and most accurate quarterback in Notre Dame history. Everyone knows if the defense wasn't sooooooooooooooo bad they'd have played in a BCS bowl.

 

[irish1958]

Jimmy wasn't the problem. No run blocking, no defense, no help from some of his receivers in critical situations and no forth quarter conditioning were the reasons.
I guess Payton Manning doesn't have the "moxie" either, if that is the reason the QB looses the game for you.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I will go ahead and say Clausen was the most talented and most accurate quarterback in Notre Dame history. Everyone knows if the defense wasn't sooooooooooooooo bad they'd have played in a BCS bowl.

Definitely agree with the first sentence. However, a QB's job description goes way beyond talent. Because Jimmy never lead a great team and because he left before his senior year, the verdict will always be out as to whether or not he had the intangibles of a great QB.

 

[GowerND11]

Definitely agree with the first sentence. However, a QB's job description goes way beyond talent. Because Jimmy never lead a great team and because he left before his senior year, the verdict will always be out as to whether or not he had the intangibles of a great QB.

True, but as the question states was Jimmy the problem? Most would say no, as would I. He led plenty of combacks, only to be blown by our defense. He didn't call the plays, so the incompetence was on Weis when he would call some terrible plays in key situations. His recievers were great, but they always made their mistakes when they mattered most. Yes as a QB the weight of the team rests on you, but when you lead an offense to 30ppg, and your defense allows 26ppg, which you could take out the Nevada shut out and WSU blowout, and it is much higher. Jimmy didn't cause the woes. It was a combination of a lot and I mean A LOT of factors.

 

[Kak7304]

I think the end of the Stanford game in 2009 exemplifies the season. The D stepped out of the way to let Gerhart score so that Jimmy would have a chance to lead the team to a score. If he was the problem, we would have had our D try to make a stop, not put the game in his hands.

 

[Irish Insanity]

I think he may be the most talented QB ND has had, but it takes more than talent and i'm not sure he has all the rest. And i'm a huge Jimmy fan. But he was the least of our problems at the time.

 

[eNDzone]

Jimmy Clausen is the most talented QB ND has ever had.

Weis and his defense were the busts.

Aren't you forgetting Johnny Lujack, Angelo Bertelli, George Gipp, Joe Theismann, and Ralph Guglielmi . These are just a few talented QBs that come to mind. Joe Montana-- Now there is Moxie. Paul Hornung won the Heisman while playing for a 2-8 team. Not to mention that most of these guys played both sides of the ball and some played special teams.

 

[Irish Man3]

When I think of our problems in the Jimmy Clausen era, the last thing I think about is Jimmy Clausen himself. Im not ready to say he was the most talented quarterback in Notre Dame history but I will say he was an elite talent.

I look more towards the defense and the shear lack of player development. Charlie Weis brought in very good talent (on offense) but they never were properly developed. The coaching staff and the lack of defensive recruits also didn't help matters much.

The majority of the Charlie Weis era was hard to deal with for me personally, but as far as our teams lack of success throughout JC's career, I don't point to Jimmy for the brunt of things.

 

[Rocket89]

Zero blame on Jimmy for 2007 to 2009.

His stats weren't great from his freshman year, but he actually played pretty well given the circumstances (awful offensive line, worst running game in ND history, etc.)

He had a couple bad games in 2008, but I always felt like we expected him to be older than he was. In most games, he was our team on offense, especially against the better teams.

In 2009...he went entire games without making a bad throw. Literally, he did that.

He struggled in the first half against USC, but USC was harassing him like 2007 came back and was haunting him. He settled down and played great in the second half.

The Navy game...the only thing I'd pin on him was the fumble at the goal line. Other than that, he didn't miss the field goal, or cause Floyd to misunderstand the play and cause a pick, or cause the defense to suck. Let's not forget he broke a few school records that day and had no Allen, and Hughes crapped the bed starting.

The Pitt game was the one game where he wasn't lights out. But that just goes to show how much we relied on him. In reality, he played a decent game, but since we were used to him doing everything...it looked much worse.

I don't know if he's the most talented QB to play at ND, but his 2009 season, on an individual level, will be immortalized. At least it should be.

Put all of his throws on a loop and it will blow your mind. His accuracy and decision making was phemonenal. It's too bad we could never put a great team around him other than a couple good receivers.

 

[Mirer3Powlus]

I DO think that he lacked a little bit of moxie-- think of us stalling with 4 trys on USCs 3 or having that bum drive against Navy, giving up the TD and then marching the ball down in like 3 plays to score...

Clausen threw for 452 yards against Navy.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Well, early in this forum, more or less when I first joined, I called Clasusen an accurate passer, as soon as his freshman year. His line was a bunch of losers. By his second year, on this forum, a poster mentioned the possibility of Clausen leaving early. I seconded the thought and pointed out his accuracy and incredible athleticism. It seemed like me against the entire IrishEnvy forum I think NDinLA saw Clausen's potential. I may have almost been banned.
Clausen is now a pro athlete.

I also called Diaco a great DC within the first three games and wrote that I hope he will stick around a while. Can't find the post, but no responses...hate stuff followed after the navy game, then Diaco is God.

Bottom line: Has nothing to do with my football experience. Has all to do with the pretty girl tonight who looked at me and said "MMMM".

 

[phgreek]

Well, early in this forum, more or less when I first joined, I called Clasusen an accurate passer, as soon as his freshman year. His line was a bunch of losers. By his second year, on this forum, a poster mentioned the possibility of Clausen leaving early. I seconded the thought and pointed out his accuracy and incredible athleticism. It seemed like me against the entire IrishEnvy forum I think NDinLA saw Clausen's potential. I may have almost been banned.
Clausen is now a pro athlete.

I recall...I was among those who did not necessarily agree...my take was always Clausen was talented enough, but he needed some big wins and a BCS run...never got those...My belief was without them we'd have him for four years...didn't see the Weis firing coming at the time...Much of Jimmy's exit had to do with Charlie's IMHO. But yes...you called it.

I also called Diaco a great DC within the first three games and wrote that I hope he will stick around a while. Can't find the post, but no responses...hate stuff followed after the navy game, then Diaco is God.

man you were a visionary...not sure what you saw...Yea, I was saying remain calm, but I was thinking he was in a little over his head...I saw some things in our coverage that appeared to be the same ole crap...turns out he was working through the "hangover" with this defense, because no Sh!t, they became VERY solid fundamental players, and they bought in...was really nice to see, but I'd be less than honest if Bobby didn't scare me a little early on...

Bottom line: Has nothing to do with my football experience. Has all to do with the pretty girl tonight who looked at me and said "MMMM".

....and fade in the cheesy 70s music...I'm out

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Yeah, 70s music...I tell ya...YouTube - K.C. and The Sunshine Band - Boogie Shoes

Seems to me Diaco and staff is simply coaching the classic 5-2 Okie. Now called the 3-4. I called Diaco a great DC within the first 3 games on this forum.

Whatever.

Ph. , you have alway been class.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Jimmy did what he did without much of an Oline... kinda like what he has right now at Carolina.

And when you're ducking death every other snap, you're not gonna win a ton of games.