It's not you, it's me - Notre Dame Football Edition.

dre1919

www.andrewsloan.com
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
70
Much like the Nike ad now trying to rehabilitate LeBron's image, I think we as Irish fans might want to look at the football program in the same light and consider the answer...

"What should I do? Should I admit I've made mistakes? Should I remind you I've done this before? Should I give you a history lesson? What should I do? Should I tell you how much fun we had? Should I really believe I ruined my legacy? Should I be who you want me to be? Should I accept my role as a villain? Maybe I should just disappear. Should I just clear the decks and start over? What should I do? Should I be who you want me to be?"

For a relatively small, religious based university in the middle of America's heartland we've accomplished a lot. National championships, Heisman trophies, All-Americans, history. But that was then...and then was a long time ago. Even the last time we raised the trophy as champions was twenty two seasons ago. Twenty two. In the old days, other schools only recruited relatively locally...no one was on TV the way the Irish were...there was no "internet". No YouTube, no Sportscenter, no highlight package on one of fifteen sports channels. Back then, we possessed and brandished recruiting tools other schools could only dream of having. Now, everyone has them. The playing field was not only leveled, the field changed colors (literally in the case of some) and became a different sport altogether (figuratively). As the NFL, and it's contract money, grew and grew the need for a "good education" went by the wayside. Schools steadily grew into football factories, ensuring recruits an unobstructed path to NFL riches in trade for money made for the school by winning college games (and bowls).

As these "rules" by which the game is played have changed, largely, Notre Dame has not. we have stuck to being an independent when others joined conferences for shared revenue. We have managed to maintain our own television network deal, bought mostly on our past and the fact that even casual fans seem to love something about the Irish. We have maintained a difficult schedule, only recently relenting a little, and most importantly...we have stressed classwork over a springboard to the NFL and instant money. But what has that gotten us? If you look at the recruits that have come through the doors, the coaches, the on field results...not much. Sure, we cobble together a decent season now and then but we are always one step away from mediocrity. We are always being questioned whether we are for real, overrated, or simply irrelevant in a modern college football "NFL farm system".

The truth we all ignore is today's blue chip recruits don't want to have to deal with extraordinarily hard classes when they can go to a school that allows "Ball Room Dancing" as a class option to keep playing. They can go to a school where a "C" average (or worse, a "D") keeps you technically eligible, and technically is enough. Blue chip, difference makers on the field choose to go play where the success is, and has been, the past decade...their formative years watching football. Sure, it was cool to play for the lore and mystique of Notre Dame in 1930, 1940, 1950, etc. 2010? Not so much. Why not play for Texas, OU, Ohio State or even Oregon? Why freeze during the winters when a warm beach awaits you at USC or Miami? Because some guy named Knute Rockne used to have some good teams at this little school once? Because this team with plain helmets is on TV every Saturday? So what? The Big Ten (and soon the Pac-10) will have their own networks, and ESPN and ABC always have the big boys playing in sparkling HD as well.

So all of this leads back to the Nike ad. Who do we want the Irish football program to be? Champions? Perennial contenders? A football factory? An academics first institution? Good citizens, off the police blotter, with morals and religion coming first? Increasingly, it seems highly unlikely and close to impossible to envision Notre Dame being all of these things. Yet, we as fans seem to want this every season. We expect the past to come alive and wake up the echoes, when in reality, those echoes are saying "Decide who you want to be, because in today's times, you cannot have it all." Tough pill to swallow, but it's the truth. And coaches know it too. It's why the coaching elite avoid Notre Dame like it's a haunted house. They know that the rules under which they must operate cannot yield the unrealistic expectations the fanbase and alumni demand. They know that without blue chip, difference making talent they cannot compete with the football factories and that is what would be asked of them. These are smart men, aware of their salary as well as their legacies and they want no part of a house haunted by the memories of past glory. Those echoes whisper to a time long ago when college football was a mere dwarf of the juggernaut it currently is. When the need for a prestigious degree and national merit was important, and there wasn't millions of dollars waiting on a simple signature to a piece of paper.

So who do we want Notre Dame to be? If the Irish decided to stick to their guns as an academic, even taking it more seriously, and joined the Ivy League I would still root for them as my favorite team. I feel a deep connection to the institution as a person of Irish heritage. But, that's me. I would accept they decided playing with the big boys was not really in the cards and that things like education and morality were more important than BCS millions. On the other hand, I LOVE football...and I really love championship, dominant football. It would be incredible to watch the Irish as a perennial contender and staple of the BCS bowls like Florida, OU, Texas and Ohio State are. That would be great! I would also understand that to have done that, it meant that we had to change our identity and make a choice. We had to choose where to win our battles...in the classroom, in the police station, or on the field. But once we were there, it meant we did choose...we didn't sit like we have for decades...in mediocrity and wondering if we were relevant anymore.

It is these reasons that it will not matter who coaches us...what mistakes they make or who they do or do not recruit. It is these reasons that keep us happy and basking in the thrill of victory one Saturday, then scratching out heads or yelling at the TV the next. We are ready to run the newest coach out of town at the first hint of trouble when the reality is, as we have the rules currently laid, no one is coming in here and doing what we really expect. Saban, Tressel, Meyer, Stoops...how could any of these considerable coaches do more than what Kelly is doing with what Kelly has to work with and under? We have financial means and past glory...that's about it. What good is that going to do us in the modern world of "right now", "do it the easy way", " a few crimes are misunderstandings and we can sweep them under the rug" or "classes shouldn't be hard for future millionaires".

Who should Notre Dame be?
 
Last edited:

Mr. McGibblets

Mr McBowden's Love Child
Messages
4,388
Reaction score
258
Real solid post. Especially tying in a pretty prominent commercial right now. Felt like that was an article I'd read on the last page of Sports Illustrated or Sporting News.

I want Notre Dame to be a solid academic school with exceptions for football players. Just being honest.
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
Submit this to SI, also, and i have been wanting it more an more, i think we should open up recruiting to all athletes, not just top scholars. There its out ban me, crucify me, if all the good players are idiots, and good players win championships, i want idiots.
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
Wow dude. You need to get this published somewhere. Incredible piece. Here is an odd coincidence. I saw the Lebron commercial for the first time very recently, and loved it. Absolutely loved it. I think it is one of the more clever responses in an ad I have seen in a long time. The connection here is that, with that commercial in mind, and given the performance of ND football of the last few years, I had a pretty serious and heated discussion with someone last night over the phone about this EXACT same topic.

I listed several options - lighten the schedule, ease up admissions, play with the Ivy League, etc... The person I was talking to said "THIS IS NOTRE DAME," and was adamant about staying the course.

Absolutely great post brother.
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

Guest
We should have joined the Big Ten when we had the chance....

Tradition is tradition.... yet it's lost upon many of us. Some of our current fan base aren't old enough to know what it is to win at Notre Dame anymore. I'm sick and freaking tired of it. I want to win....

Something needs to happen here... Loosen the strings on scheduling....allow 7-8 borderline kids in....something.... This is crap...
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
Everyone should go read the novel "Resurrection" by Jim Dent.
 

Junkhead

Community Mod
Messages
7,595
Reaction score
1,354
We should have joined the Big Ten when we had the chance....

Tradition is tradition.... yet it's lost upon many of us. Some of our current fan base aren't old enough to know what it is to win at Notre Dame anymore. I'm sick and freaking tired of it. I want to win....

Something needs to happen here... Loosen the strings on scheduling....allow 7-8 borderline kids in....something.... This is crap...
Forget loosening the strings, losing is where it is at!
 

blnewcomer

New member
Messages
31
Reaction score
2
Notre Dame should be what they are capable of being. I agree with johnnykillz, I enjoyed this read. But what I mean by they should be what they are capable of being is... Notre Dame has all the ingredients needed to build an elite football team. It just does. But the problem is, for some reason, noone can figure out just what the heck is wrong. The part of your post that hit home most with me was about academic standards. True, that is keeping some of the "big fish" out of our reach, but that does not mean we can't win with "minnows." TCU, Boise State, Utah, Missouri all these colleges are in the top 25 and you know they haven't been signing top notch, 5-star recruits all these years like powerhouse schools are. Granted with the success of these schools in the last couple years, more big name recruits are flocking their way. Kids these days are focused on money. That's it. Bottom line. Why would an 18-19 year old kid want to go to a college with strict academic standards? I mean, it's simple common sense.

That is not the problem in South Bend right now. They've lacked the leadership on the gridiron that was so prevalent leading up to the early 90's when it seemed to vanish. I strongly believe if a successful coach can get what he wants out his players, he can be competitive. Notre Dame is far from competitive right now, unfortunately. And it cannot be blamed on any one thing. The program as a whole is in turmoil but not dead. On the recruiting topic, Brian Kelly will recruit the players he needs in order to get Notre Dame back to a competitive football team. I'd take a handful of 3-star recruits that are coachable, hardworking, respectful athletes over a handful of 5-star recruits that see dollar symbols and can do no wrong. And that's all the Irish need - Hardworking, Coachable athletes that will mesh with Kelly's schemes.

On a side-note. 22 years. Lou Holtz' undefeated squad of 1988 was the last team to win a National Championship.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
Let me put it to you this way:

Boise State had never won ANYTHING until 2005 and now they're a "dominant" team year in and year out with mediocre talent.

What we need to do is get Kelly the players that fit his system, dumb down the schedule and then watch them pile up wins like Cinci did against Big East level competition.

Blind faith ftw.
 

blnewcomer

New member
Messages
31
Reaction score
2
Let me put it to you this way:

Boise State had never won ANYTHING until 2005 and now they're a "dominant" team year in and year out with mediocre talent.

What we need to do is get Kelly the players that fit his system, dumb down the schedule and then watch them pile up wins like Cinci did against Big East level competition.

Blind faith ftw.

Well said, get Kelly the players he needs and the pieces will start to fall into place. I've been preaching that since the beginning. Recruiting in College Football is essential. BK wouldn't have recruited any of the players currently on his roster save for maybe a handful of guys. As far as dumbing down the schedule, I agree to some extent, however I like what I see on the upcoming schedules for 2011-12.
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
just something to think about, between 1987 and 2005 ND president Malloy nearly doubled spending on academics, buildings, and teachers, and the average SAT score of students increased by more than 100 points. In that time we have won 1 championship and that was at the beginning of this period.
 

dre1919

www.andrewsloan.com
Messages
1,042
Reaction score
70
Thanks for the positive reviews everyone, I appreciate it! It'd be fun to write about sports, even if was a side gig (I'm an illustrator and graphic designer as a career). I strongly believe in this team and that Kelly was a good hire (the best available). We didn't need another coordinator on the rise, as someone who hasn't won it all at any level is NOT ready for the crucible that is Notre Dame football. However, Kelly isn't going to have lasting success until he gets the type of players that fit his system. Maybe he won't for the reasons listed above.

I do agree with blnewcomer that it doesn't always require elite athletes...but with a caveat. I used to think that Notre Dame should run an offense like Texas Tech did under Mike Leach. His Air Raid offense turned average athletes into stat producing machines. That type of "average to seemingly great player" system would take the guys we usually got and produce WINS. But, how many national championships did Tech win under Leach? How many Big XII titles? Exactly. Produced stats, but when they met the big kids, it was always something (and that something was usually a beating at the hands of blue chip, difference making athletes recruited by football factories). BTW, thanks for the correction on the championship year bl...see, it's been so long I even got the year wrong. :)
 

Honey Nut Irish

Active member
Messages
285
Reaction score
41
Let me put it to you this way:

Boise State had never won ANYTHING until 2005 and now they're a "dominant" team year in and year out with mediocre talent.

What we need to do is get Kelly the players that fit his system, dumb down the schedule and then watch them pile up wins like Cinci did against Big East level competition.

Blind faith ftw.

That was some sarcasm there right?
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
sorry did i say the budget doubled? it actually almost SEXTUPLED it went from 177 million to 650 million!
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
Let me put it to you this way:

Boise State had never won ANYTHING until 2005 and now they're a "dominant" team year in and year out with mediocre talent.

What we need to do is get Kelly the players that fit his system, dumb down the schedule and then watch them pile up wins like Cinci did against Big East level competition.

Blind faith ftw.

Boise has been very good for a long time. I saw them play in the 90s, and told people that this is THE up and coming program. They were very impressive even back then.

Year Championship Record
1973 Big Sky Conference - (Div. II) 10-3 (6-0)
1974 Big Sky Conference 10-2 (6-0)
1975 Big Sky Conference 9-2-1 (5-0-1)
1977 Big Sky Conference 9-2 (6-0)
1980 Big Sky Conference - (Div. I-AA) 10-3 (6-1)
1994 Big Sky Conference 13-2 (6-1)
1999 Big West Conference - (Div. I-A) 10-3 (5-1)
2000 Big West Conference 10-2 (5-0)
2002 Western Athletic Conference 12-1 (8-0)
2003 Western Athletic Conference 13-1 (8-0)
2004 Western Athletic Conference 11-1 (8-0)
2005 Western Athletic Conference 9-4 (7-1)
2006 Western Athletic Conference 13-0 (8-0)
2008 Western Athletic Conference 12-1 (8-0)
2009 Western Athletic Conference 14-0 (8-0)
 
Last edited:

NankerPhelge

WANKER
Messages
805
Reaction score
126
This is a nice piece.

You have, either intentionally or unintentionally, hit upon a real battle that is raging within Notre Dame right now, and which has been going on for the past forty years, concerning the core issue of what kind of a university this is now, and what kind it is going to be in the future. ND philosophy professor Frodoso has written and spoken extensively that Notre Dame is now "a public school in a Catholic neighborhood." From what I know, many other faculty members agree. Others, of course, disagree or worse, in my opinion, don't care. I don't want to step outside the boundaries for the reason for the existence of this board. I will just say that I think that the "either-or" scenario that you discuss concerning the football program is really just an illustration of the much larger controversy that permeates Notre Dame at the present on an institutional level.
 

blnewcomer

New member
Messages
31
Reaction score
2
Thanks for the positive reviews everyone, I appreciate it! It'd be fun to write about sports, even if was a side gig (I'm an illustrator and graphic designer as a career). I strongly believe in this team and that Kelly was a good hire (the best available). We didn't need another coordinator on the rise, as someone who hasn't won it all at any level is NOT ready for the crucible that is Notre Dame football. However, Kelly isn't going to have lasting success until he gets the type of players that fit his system. Maybe he won't for the reasons listed above.

I do agree with blnewcomer that it doesn't always require elite athletes...but with a caveat. I used to think that Notre Dame should run an offense like Texas Tech did under Mike Leach. His Air Raid offense turned average athletes into stat producing machines. That type of "average to seemingly great player" system would take the guys we usually got and produce WINS. But, how many national championships did Tech win under Leach? How many Big XII titles? Exactly. Produced stats, but when they met the big kids, it was always something (and that something was usually a beating at the hands of blue chip, difference making athletes recruited by football factories). BTW, thanks for the correction on the championship year bl...see, it's been so long I even got the year wrong. :)


No problem ha. I enjoyed your original post. Gives Irish fans something to ponder.
 

NeuteredDoomer

RIP - You are missed
Messages
6,714
Reaction score
434
This is a nice piece.

You have, either intentionally or unintentionally, hit upon a real battle that is raging within Notre Dame right now, and which has been going on for the past forty years, concerning the core issue of what kind of a university this is now, and what kind it is going to be in the future. ND philosophy professor Frodoso has written and spoken extensively that Notre Dame is now "a public school in a Catholic neighborhood." From what I know, many other faculty members agree. Others, of course, disagree or worse, in my opinion, don't care. I don't want to step outside the boundaries for the reason for the existence of this board. I will just say that I think that the "either-or" scenario that you discuss concerning the football program is really just an illustration of the much larger controversy that permeates Notre Dame at the present on an institutional level.

I would really like to know more about this. Please share.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
Boise has been very good for a long time. I saw them play in the 90s, and told people that this is THE up and coming program. They were very impressive even back then.

Year Championship Record
1973 Big Sky Conference - (Div. II) 10-3 (6-0)
1974 Big Sky Conference 10-2 (6-0)
1975 Big Sky Conference 9-2-1 (5-0-1)
1977 Big Sky Conference 9-2 (6-0)
1980 Big Sky Conference - (Div. I-AA) 10-3 (6-1)
1994 Big Sky Conference 13-2 (6-1)
1999 Big West Conference - (Div. I-A) 10-3 (5-1)
2000 Big West Conference 10-2 (5-0)
2002 Western Athletic Conference 12-1 (8-0)
2003 Western Athletic Conference 13-1 (8-0)
2004 Western Athletic Conference 11-1 (8-0)
2005 Western Athletic Conference 9-4 (7-1)
2006 Western Athletic Conference 13-0 (8-0)
2008 Western Athletic Conference 12-1 (8-0)
2009 Western Athletic Conference 14-0 (8-0)

Wow I was way off. I meant '06 instead of '05 but never realized they basically have dominated the WAC since '02.

Point stands though... Boise is in a crappy part of the world, has nothing going for it but football and completely dominates without much NFL talent. If Boise can win, Notre Dame can win. Just dumb down the schedule and get the right guys in.
 

IrishLax

Something Witty
Staff member
Messages
37,544
Reaction score
28,990
That was some sarcasm there right?

Some sarcasm, but also some truth. Think about this kind of schedule:

Western Michigan
Toledo
Indiana
Purdue
Wake Forest
Army
Navy
BYU
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Boston College/Rutgers
USC

Great regional coverage, enough BCS conference teams to be in the national title hunt and one marquee game at the end of the year. Let's face it, this year's team is both unlucky and also just really decimated with injuries now. I'm not saying this team would rock the schedule I just posted, but I'm pretty sure Kelly's Cinci team would've lost no more than 2 of these games. That's the point I think we all want to get to: 10 wins each year with a shot at running the table.

It's hardly unfeasible, just need to make sure we keep Hayes, Atkinson and Daniels so we have the speed to run Kelly's scheme.
 

NankerPhelge

WANKER
Messages
805
Reaction score
126
I left the Frodoso articles to which I was referring at my office, but I will pick them up tomorrow and give you this info.

Not trying to start a religious or political debate, but just recognizing that there is a really deep institutional divide at Notre Dame right now and I think it permeates everything about the University. Regardless of what you thought about it, the decision to have Obama there to speak at commencement and to give him an honorary law degree was hugely controversial (do I dare say divisive?) throughout the Notre Dame family. Alumni contributions have dropped $100 million since then. But, shortly after the visit, Notre Dame received $50 million from the federal government as a research grant.

This is just one of the most recent examples of the battle to which I refer. Father Hesburgh turning control of Notre Dame over to a lay board in the '70's was, believe it or not, as controversial in its time. Hesburgh's portrait that now hangs in the Administration Building has him wearing, not his Notre Dame attire, but his Harvard robe that he received when he was awarded his honorary doctorate from there. Some people think that this is just another indication of a push within Notre Dame to becoming a more secular institution, at least at its core.

As it stands right now, Notre Dame's annual budget is well over twice that of the Vatican's--a sovereign state. Some people might say "that's great." As a matter of fact, I am sure that's what the corporate brains charged with running the University are saying. Another sizeable contingent inside the University, however, think that the core principal that governs Notre Dame now is simply maximizing profit while maintaining the outward signs of the Catholic university it once was, and still purports to be.

These are just a couple of examples of the institutional battle to which I refer, and which I think can't help but to be apparant in the football program.
 

irishtrain

Well-known member
Messages
2,359
Reaction score
157
dre1919- thanks for putting into words what needs to be addressed, eloquint, very well done.
 

GreatGolson

Formerly GreatDayne
Messages
2,956
Reaction score
133
Some sarcasm, but also some truth. Think about this kind of schedule:

Western Michigan
Toledo
Indiana
Purdue
Wake Forest
Army
Navy
BYU
Pittsburgh
South Florida
Boston College/Rutgers
USC

Great regional coverage, enough BCS conference teams to be in the national title hunt and one marquee game at the end of the year. Let's face it, this year's team is both unlucky and also just really decimated with injuries now. I'm not saying this team would rock the schedule I just posted, but I'm pretty sure Kelly's Cinci team would've lost no more than 2 of these games. That's the point I think we all want to get to: 10 wins each year with a shot at running the table.

It's hardly unfeasible, just need to make sure we keep Hayes, Atkinson and Daniels so we have the speed to run Kelly's scheme.
To bad we already have Miami, Texas, and i THINK (someone confirm this?) another game or 2 with Utah
 

phgreek

New member
Messages
6,956
Reaction score
433
Much like the Nike ad now trying to rehabilitate LeBron's image, I think we as Irish fans might want to look at the football program in the same light and consider the answer...

"What should I do? Should I admit I've made mistakes? Should I remind you I've done this before? Should I give you a history lesson? What should I do? Should I tell you how much fun we had? Should I really believe I ruined my legacy? Should I be who you want me to be? Should I accept my role as a villain? Maybe I should just disappear. Should I just clear the decks and start over? What should I do? Should I be who you want me to be?"

For a relatively small, religious based university in the middle of America's heartland we've accomplished a lot. National championships, Heisman trophies, All-Americans, history. But that was then...and then was a long time ago. Even the last time we raised the trophy as champions was twenty two seasons ago. Twenty two. In the old days, other schools only recruited relatively locally...no one was on TV the way the Irish were...there was no "internet". No YouTube, no Sportscenter, no highlight package on one of fifteen sports channels. Back then, we possessed and brandished recruiting tools other schools could only dream of having. Now, everyone has them. The playing field was not only leveled, the field changed colors (literally in the case of some) and became a different sport altogether (figuratively). As the NFL, and it's contract money, grew and grew the need for a "good education" went by the wayside. Schools steadily grew into football factories, ensuring recruits an unobstructed path to NFL riches in trade for money made for the school by winning college games (and bowls).

As these "rules" by which the game is played have changed, largely, Notre Dame has not. we have stuck to being an independent when others joined conferences for shared revenue. We have managed to maintain our own television network deal, bought mostly on our past and the fact that even casual fans seem to love something about the Irish. We have maintained a difficult schedule, only recently relenting a little, and most importantly...we have stressed classwork over a springboard to the NFL and instant money. But what has that gotten us? If you look at the recruits that have come through the doors, the coaches, the on field results...not much. Sure, we cobble together a decent season now and then but we are always one step away from mediocrity. We are always being questioned whether we are for real, overrated, or simply irrelevant in a modern college football "NFL farm system".

The truth we all ignore is today's blue chip recruits don't want to have to deal with extraordinarily hard classes when they can go to a school that allows "Ball Room Dancing" as a class option to keep playing. They can go to a school where a "C" average (or worse, a "D") keeps you technically eligible, and technically is enough. Blue chip, difference makers on the field choose to go play where the success is, and has been, the past decade...their formative years watching football. Sure, it was cool to play for the lore and mystique of Notre Dame in 1930, 1940, 1950, etc. 2010? Not so much. Why not play for Texas, OU, Ohio State or even Oregon? Why freeze during the winters when a warm beach awaits you at USC or Miami? Because some guy named Knute Rockne used to have some good teams at this little school once? Because this team with plain helmets is on TV every Saturday? So what? The Big Ten (and soon the Pac-10) will have their own networks, and ESPN and ABC always have the big boys playing in sparkling HD as well.

So all of this leads back to the Nike ad. Who do we want the Irish football program to be? Champions? Perennial contenders? A football factory? An academics first institution? Good citizens, off the police blotter, with morals and religion coming first? Increasingly, it seems highly unlikely and close to impossible to envision Notre Dame being all of these things. Yet, we as fans seem to want this every season. We expect the past to come alive and wake up the echoes, when in reality, those echoes are saying "Decide who you want to be, because in today's times, you cannot have it all." Tough pill to swallow, but it's the truth. And coaches know it too. It's why the coaching elite avoid Notre Dame like it's a haunted house. They know that the rules under which they must operate cannot yield the unrealistic expectations the fanbase and alumni demand. They know that without blue chip, difference making talent they cannot compete with the football factories and that is what would be asked of them. These are smart men, aware of their salary as well as their legacies and they want no part of a house haunted by the memories of past glory. Those echoes whisper to a time long ago when college football was a mere dwarf of the juggernaut it currently is. When the need for a prestigious degree and national merit was important, and there wasn't millions of dollars waiting on a simple signature to a piece of paper.

So who do we want Notre Dame to be? If the Irish decided to stick to their guns as an academic, even taking it more seriously, and joined the Ivy League I would still root for them as my favorite team. I feel a deep connection to the institution as a person of Irish heritage. But, that's me. I would accept they decided playing with the big boys was not really in the cards and that things like education and morality were more important than BCS millions. On the other hand, I LOVE football...and I really love championship, dominant football. It would be incredible to watch the Irish as a perennial contender and staple of the BCS bowls like Florida, OU, Texas and Ohio State are. That would be great! I would also understand that to have done that, it meant that we had to change our identity and make a choice. We had to choose where to win our battles...in the classroom, in the police station, or on the field. But once we were there, it meant we did choose...we didn't sit like we have for decades...in mediocrity and wondering if we were relevant anymore.

It is these reasons that it will not matter who coaches us...what mistakes they make or who they do or do not recruit. It is these reasons that keep us happy and basking in the thrill of victory one Saturday, then scratching out heads or yelling at the TV the next. We are ready to run the newest coach out of town at the first hint of trouble when the reality is, as we have the rules currently laid, no one is coming in here and doing what we really expect. Saban, Tressel, Meyer, Stoops...how could any of these considerable coaches do more than what Kelly is doing with what Kelly has to work with and under? We have financial means and past glory...that's about it. What good is that going to do us in the modern world of "right now", "do it the easy way", " a few crimes are misunderstandings and we can sweep them under the rug" or "classes shouldn't be hard for future millionaires".

Who should Notre Dame be?

Sensational post...top notch...

I want to win football games, but I do not believe we must choose one or the other.

I have always been supportive of the prop 48 guys in Holtz era. As I've said before on this site, being a Catholic university, I would expect us to reach out to young men of moral fiber, but difficult circumstances that may have lead to underperforming on the academic side, and possibly a spiritual void. We seem to ignore our Catholic motivations to do missionary work in this way because of what others outside Notre Dame would think...To some degree, the Administration let academians and the outside world influence how Notre Dame defines itself. As I read this thread, and the inputs from all of you, I remain convinced this can be done, but Notre Dame (this will sound weird) needs to chart its course by being Catholic first, then an institution of higher learning. If that happens, I think the prop 48 kind of approach works here, and it is a tremendous missionary tool...Look at Foley and Rice...how many of those guys have we passed on since '86...how many would lead a different life today had we not...and of course how many more damned football games would we have won?
 

Mihalko35

Member
Messages
80
Reaction score
6
Great post Dre and fantastic discussion!

Here's the situation as I see it.

When I was at ND from '91 - '96, things were a lot different. The Hammes was a single-story bookstore on the first floor of Baden Hall. Now it's a massive two-story building. The stadium expanded from 59,075 to 80K+. The football players lived in dorms all four years instead of moving off campus, and they used to lift weights at loftus and the JACC instead of having their own dedicated building.

The last time I went to campus was the 2006 Army game and how things had changed. The feeling I kept getting was how commercialized and sanitized ND had become. From the 'new' bookstore, to the ridiculous eating tent near the main entrance, to the controlled and disneyfied game day atmosphere. Gone were senior bar (replaced by some fairly ridiculous eating establishment, I understand), the illegal t-shirt sellers on the stadium grounds, and general rowdiness. Gone was the edge, the grit, and the energy I remember; the us-against-the-world mentality.

By focusing on making the games and student life in general 'a safe and enjoyable experience for all' (e.g., the draconian rule of Residence Life, elimination of SYRs), and through it's emphasis on making money above all else, ND has gone soft.

Throughout our history, ND has always cherished its role as the underdog and its us-against-the-world ethos. In fact, the moniker 'Fighting Irish' started out as a racial epithet. That sense of being persecuted, trivialized, and patronized in society bred a certain toughness and a determination to win that permeated the culture of the university. And our football team was an extention of that mentality where power running, grit, and grinding down those who would oppose you was the perfect expression of what Notre Dame itself was about.

It may sound simple, but I truly believe that as the university has gone soft, so has the football program.
 

Dacian_Irish

I'm a Cry-ceratops
Messages
590
Reaction score
35
sorry did i say the budget doubled? it actually almost SEXTUPLED it went from 177 million to 650 million!

The problem with all this spending is that the football team for the last 80 years built this school. Without it it would not be as big as it is. It may be a great school but without what the football team has done it is nothing, especially for the millions of non-alumni's. Spending on academics is fine but let the football team win! Don't put restrictions and feed all the hungry fans! I'm sick of loosing when we have all the resources to win. Again thats what's so hard is we all know we have the tools to win.
 
Top