Les Miles & Rich Rod

[Riddickulous]

I agree with that for the most part...

but these ND fans that flame RR like he's a garbage coach... really??

He beat us twice in a row and looks like he has UM on the right path. and all the "yeah buts" about refs, QBs getting hurt and recruiting players that actually fit your system (gasp) will never change that...

I'd personally be very happy to see RR leave and Les Miles take over.

Michigan would be better off hiring Harbaugh. Then they'd be consistently dominating the Big 10.

 

[IrishLax]

Litmus test time! Would you rather...

A) Rich Rod coach Michigan
B) Harbaugh coach Michigan
C) Saban coach Michigan

I take A in a second. In no way is Rich Rod a "poor" coach, but I think there is a difference between him and the Pete Carrolls, Urban Meyers, etc.

 

[Tate the Great]

I agree with that for the most part...

but these ND fans that flame RR like he's a garbage coach... really??

He beat us twice in a row and looks like he has UM on the right path. and all the "yeah buts" about refs, QBs getting hurt and recruiting players that actually fit your system (gasp) will never change that...

I'd personally be very happy to see RR leave and Les Miles take over.

How can you say that you think that he has them on the right path? He started 5-0 last year and finished by losing 7 in a row, they are getting toward the meat of their schedule and I will be surprised if they manage more than 7 or 8 wins. Their D sucks, plain and simple. Maybe Herbstreit should spend more time talking about their terrible D!

 

[phork]

With the new AD in at UM I guarantee that if RichRod goes that Les Miles will not be hired. Miles should have taken the money and ran when UM was courting him back when.

 

[military_irish]

Speaking of Les Miles, he is very lucky yesterday and not just because Tennesse had 13 men on field but right after that play one of the LSU players threw his helmet off.

Which according to the rules is a 15 yard penalty.

So either they would have been off setting and the game would have been over, and Tennesse would have won, or the play would have been done over again.

Not sure of the rules exactly in that instance, but either way it was still a flag on LSU

 

[ACamp1900]

Michigan would be better off hiring Harbaugh. Then they'd be consistently dominating the Big 10.

and that means RR sucks???... man ND must REALLY FREAKIN SUCK since he completely owns our backsides currently...

people forget how bad Stanford was under the first two years of Harbaugh... give RR the same time before you compare the two...

ND fans need to grow up...

The guy wins and is starting to now at UM... how many feel confident about going to the big house next year??? would DR be half the player he is in a drop back system??? HELL NO. RR is part of that guys, wake up. My point is NOT that he is some Saban level coach, my point is you guys laugh at this man like he's a joke...all things considered looks to me like the jokes on you.

 

[ACamp1900]

Maybe Herbstreit should spend more time talking about their terrible D!

he will when they lose... they haven't so he talks about teams that do... like us.

 

[military_irish]

and that means RR sucks???... man ND must REALLY FREAKIN SUCK since he completely owns our backsides currently...

people forget how bad Stanford was under the first two years of Harbaugh... give RR the same time before you compare the two...

ND fans need to grow up...

The guy wins and is starting to now at UM... how many feel confident about going to the big house next year??? would DR be half the player he is in a drop back system??? HELL NO. RR is part of that guys, wake up. My point is NOT that he is some Saban level coach, my point is you guys laugh at this man like he's a joke...all things considered looks to me like the jokes on you.

the difference betweeen Harbaughs first couple years and RR, is that Harbaugh actually upset a few teams even when his teams were rebuilding. RR really didn't, at least none that i can think of, and i with held ND because as most people know ND really wasn't that good, great talent, bad team.

sorry to interfere with ya'lls debate, just thought i would throw my few cents in there

 

[Bogtrotter07]

and that means RR sucks???... man ND must REALLY FREAKIN SUCK since he completely owns our backsides currently...

people forget how bad Stanford was under the first two years of Harbaugh... give RR the same time before you compare the two...

First, winning two games in the final seconds does not constitute, "completely owns (owning) our backsides currently."

Second, just how long did it take Jim Harbaugh to beat Pete's SC?

 

[ACamp1900]

I would say being 5-0 at a major school after taking a truck stop of a university to within one possesion of the title game after years of dominating does not happen for a "complete joke of a coach"...

unreal to me.

this guy has had two straight teams that had zero buisness being on the same field with us and he won both times...

and yeah, the way you guys obsses over trying to make this man into something he's not when it's pretty clear he knows what he's doing qualifies as completely owning every one of your backsides imo.

 

[IrishinSyria]

I'll wait till the end of the season to laugh at RickRod. I don't think he's going to last (I see 5 losses minimum in the next 7 for Michigan) but you're on shaky ground if you're calling him a terrible coach right now. His success at West Virginia is indisputable, and Michigan is sitting at 5-0.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'll wait till the end of the season to laugh at RickRod. I don't think he's going to last (I see 5 losses minimum in the next 7 for Michigan) but you're on shaky ground if you're calling him a terrible coach right now. His success at West Virginia is indisputable, and Michigan is sitting at 5-0.

this is fair enough right here... although I'll wait to laugh when he gets fired or when we actually find a way to beat him... and when either of those happens I'll laugh at Michigan more than him...

Here's another limtus test... who would you rather have coaching UM long term from a Notre Dame standpoint

A.) Les Miles
B.) Rich Rod

I'll take A for ten thousand Bob.

 

[IrishLax]

Michigan was 5-7 last year and SHOULD have been 3-9. Everyone forgets the game we lost to them was questionable and best and Indiana got hosed even more.

This year they are 5-0 squeaking out wins over UMass, Indiana and an ND team that only played a half. Respecting what RR did at WV... fine. Respecting 3-9, a lucky 5-7 and 5-0 where the team, as a whole, looks like trash... come on. Maybe people shouldn't hate as much, but do not crown him the same way everyone is crowning Denard Robinson for Heisman playing no top 50 defenses.

 

[ACamp1900]

I'd point out no one in this thread crowned him anything...

 

[IrishLax]

this is fair enough right here... although I'll wait to laugh when he gets fired or when we actually find a way to beat him... and when either of those happens I'll laugh at Michigan more than him...

Here's another limtus test... who would you rather have coaching UM long term from a Notre Dame standpoint

A.) Les Miles
B.) Rich Rod

I'll take A for ten thousand Bob.

Agreed. Trust me, there are a lot of coaches I would rather have than Rich Rod... and Les Miles is one of them.

 

[IrishLax]

"Rodriguez is a #@%# good football coach"

In my opinion that is crowning, but I can see your point of view. It's not like anyone said "omg he is the best coach ever."

 

[ACamp1900]

anyway, one of these days, (in the long, long from now) you clowns are gonna gang up on me and actually win one of these arguments... and it'll be the talk of the board for generations to come...

but for now I'm off to take yet another night long victory nap... night boys.

 

[kmoose]

Because he is fielding one of the worst defenses in the country, right now. They have the absolute worst pass defense in the country. Dead last. 120th.

Last year, they had yet another horrible defense. And the year before that. The man can't develop a defense to save his life.

Can you name any of Michigan's running backs? Probably not, because they're mediocre and can't produce at all.

Michigan also fields a decent corps of receivers that benefit heavily from Robinson's big play ability and because Michigan hasn't played a defense ranked in the Top 50 thus far this season. Roy Roundtree is the stud of the group, but Junior Hemingway (a senior) and Darryl Stonum (a junior) are inconsistent. Both are in their third year in the Rodriguez scheme and were highly rated. They're underperforming.

Rodriguez's player development has been horrid at every position besides QB and the OL (arguably the WRs, but again they're inconsistent). The defense has exactly one player that I would even touch in the NFL Draft (NT Mike Martin).


It's not going to get better for Michigan defensively. You simply cannot take a defense from 103rd and make them Top 50 overnight.

I'm convinced that once Robinson graduates, Rodriguez will find himself in a tight spot again.

They are 5-0.

 

[phork]

anyway, one of these days, (in the long, long from now) you clowns are gonna gang up on me and actually win one of these arguments... and it'll be the talk of the board for generations to come...

but for now I'm off to take yet another night long victory nap... night boys.

I think your perception of victory lies in the vast recesses and storage dungeons of your own mind. While its seems logical and true in your head, does not make it so in real life.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Indulging in a rich fantasy life does make it easier to get to sleep at night though.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I think AC has covered most of the points I would make rather well, but for those that doubt that RR cares about D....

In his last year at WV he fielded the number 7 ranked D

 

[IrishLax]

18 points a game against an exceedingly easy Big East and non-conference schedule is good? I see that you are looking at total yards, which is fine, but again I must stress that in Rich Rod's "awesome" 2007 included them beating up on a ton of really bad teams... and also somehow losing two games to really bad teams. Good win over Oklahoma? Yeah, but that's more because Oklahoma was one of the most overrated teams of all time during that stretch (see: all of their BCS blow outs).

At my core, I'm a hater on people who I feel are overrated or otherwise haven't earned the praise they're getting. For instance, I was (and still am) a hater on Dion Lewis because one good season where he basically ran untouched behind an awesome offensive line against some seriously pathetic defenses does not make someone "the #4 player in the country." Now with Rich Rod, while I respect that he won (most) of the games he was supposed to win at WVU and only lost a couple he wasn't supposed to lose, I'm also a realist that Pat White was basically big game superman for four years that Rich Rod was moderately successful. I love Pat White. In so many ways he is the best player in college football history that no one recognizes.

Is Denard Robinson the new Pat White? Hell no. Not yet at least. Besides torch some really bad defenses what the hell has he done? If he carves up defenses against MSU, OSU and their bowl opponent... then come talk to me I will be his biggest supporter. Same goes for Rich Rod. Winning 5 games against pathetic competition (yes, we are included as pathetic in that game we played without Crist) doesn't impress me at all. Come talk to me if he finishes over .500 in the conference... because in the Big Ten he is currently a whopping.... wait for it... wait for it....

4-13 against the Big Ten... and he actually did WORSE last season (1-7) than he did in his 3-9 debut (2-6). The four wins? An Indiana game that was handed to them (tied last in conference), another Indiana game that was close, and wins against Wisconsin/Minnesota who both finished unranked and 3-5 in conference.

Please, ACamp or anyone else, tell me why I should fear Rich Rod? Because he beat up on weak teams (and still lost to a bunch of them) at WVU? Or because he has still yet to prove he can win any games in his conference? Or is it because he is 5-0 and struggled against terrible competition?

I mean seriously... even in his best season of 2007 he lost to a Pitt team that didn't even make a bowl game and a USF team that finished the year unranked. Thus concludes my morning rant. I know it doesn't directly address any points you have made. But it does clearly show how you can make a very legitimate case that Rich Rod has not proved he is a good coach yet nor should I be anything but happy that Michigan has him and not someone like Harbaugh who took an un-storied program in Stanford and has led them to a number of marquee victories over top teams without great recruiting classes of talent.

And yeah... Harbaugh would take the Michigan job in a second if the Wolverines offered it to him. Count your blessings Irish nation.

 

[military_irish]

They are 5-0.

so is Northwestern, Nevada, Kansas St (4-0) which don't make them a great team or coach, except maybe Snyder. Ault is a good innovator good coach but not great.

Like it was mentioned earlier he was one play away from the National Championship with West Virginia, but that was also in the Big East which most discredit as even being a legit BCS Conference.

That's like saying Dan Hawkins is a good coach because he took Boise St. to so many undefeated seasons, which was proven once he went to Colorado that it was more of a product of who he played.

I'll say he has to be a decent coach, because once he left West Virginia they are no where near as dynamic. But since he has been at Michigan, even though i am not a fan, it doesn't seem like their is a glimmer of hope for them. Yes they have D. Rob, but it's showing up already that it will be hard for him to make it through the whole season, if he keeps running as much as he is.

Yes they beat ND two years in a row, but that has nothing to do with the competence of RR. It just means he can beat a team going down the drain, and then the next year one that is rebuilding.

 

[laservet]

I'm with Acamp on this. Once RR gets all his players in place UM will be a force in B10 football and will be in the NC race. His team this year is far better than last year. The defense is at least two years behind the offense, but the players are still very young and are learning by fire. Eighty-six of their 120 players are freshman or sophomore in eligibility -- almost the entire team comes back next year.

They have the #2 offense in the nation and DR has set Michigan and NCAA records. One trick pony? Not really, despite the fact that DR has more yards than approximately half the D1 teams in the country. The 2nd and 3rd string qb's scored 51 points in the game in which he was injured. That's coaching, having your backup qb's ready to play (critical losses at WVa occurred when White was injured). If you subtract DR's rushing, UM's running backs still have more yards than ND. Dink and dunk passing game? He averaged 28 yards per completion last week.

To me, the most impressive difference between UM this year and last year is last year most of their yards came on improvisation, this year the yards are coming within the offense, no matter which qb is playing. Not saying DR isn't special, he turns the 15 yard runs into 50 yard runs, but their offense still works without him. Success breeds success, recruiting will improve with all the positive press they are receiving, so their future is bright.

Les Miles? He wasn't even considered for the UM job due to what they felt was a moral issue. Given Miles' poor time management over the past several years and his tendency to blame others for his own critical mistakes (see Old Miss game last year) he wouldn't be considered now even if the moral issue somehow disappeared.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

18 points a game against an exceedingly easy Big East and non-conference schedule is good? I see that you are looking at total yards, which is fine, but again I must stress that in Rich Rod's "awesome" 2007 included them beating up on a ton of really bad teams... and also somehow losing two games to really bad teams. Good win over Oklahoma? Yeah, but that's more because Oklahoma was one of the most overrated teams of all time during that stretch (see: all of their BCS blow outs).

feel free to point to a better Kelly defense in that same easy Big East, you may of course use 2008 and '09.

Really, if Kelly is your savior and is such a better coach than RR then it should be easy to point out how he is better. And saying RR is a douche can only be used by one person.

They came up to the bigs pretty much the same way, both used the BigEast to really show case their scheme.
'07 WV
'09 Cincy

Kelly's O was more balanced and slightly better ranked, but RR's D, on paper, was far and away better than Cincy.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

Also, I'm not saying Kelly is bad. In fact I think he's going to do a lot for your program, I have a hard time disliking him.

 

[IrishLax]

feel free to point to a better Kelly defense in that same easy Big East, you may of course use 2008 and '09.

Really, if Kelly is your savior and is such a better coach than RR then it should be easy to point out how he is better. And saying RR is a douche can only be used by one person.

They came up to the bigs pretty much the same way, both used the BigEast to really show case their scheme.
'07 WV
'09 Cincy

Kelly's O was more balanced and slightly better ranked, but RR's D, on paper, was far and away better than Cincy.

Point taken. And for what it's worth, I've never called Kelly a "savior." I still think he has a lot left to prove, although his ability to turn programs around at three previous locations is a good track record. Remember, he worked his way up and won national championships before ever getting a shot at Central Michigan. For instance, at Cinci he had 10 new starters on defense last year and plays a style of offense that tries to generate more possessions => more points/yards for both teams. Based on what I see this year and next year on defense I will let you know my conclusions on him and his coaching staff... but what he did at Cincinatti last year was markedly better then anything Rich Rod ever did at WVU... and Cinci isn't half the football program of WVU.

In essence, my points is: Kelly is a blank slate at ND with a great track record of success everywhere over the past 20 years. RR had success at WVU and has, to this point, failed at Michigan. You have to say he has failed so far unless you are accepting 3-13 in your conference and losing records as success. If Michigan finishes this year something like 10-2 with victories over OSU/MSU I will be the first person to say he has done a good job and it looks like he has the program heading in the right direction. But to this point he has yet to prove anything except that he can't win in conference or coach defense.

Go Blue, as a Michigan fan, I'm really curious... would you rather have Harbaugh or RR?

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

Point taken. And for what it's worth, I've never called Kelly a "savior." I still think he has a lot left to prove, although his ability to turn programs around at three previous locations is a good track record. Remember, he worked his way up and won national championships before ever getting a shot at Central Michigan. For instance, at Cinci he had 10 new starters on defense last year and plays a style of offense that tries to generate more possessions => more points/yards for both teams. Based on what I see this year and next year on defense I will let you know my conclusions on him and his coaching staff... but what he did at Cincinatti last year was markedly better then anything Rich Rod ever did at WVU... and Cinci isn't half the football program of WVU.

He did inherit a Dantonio (sp?) team that was not really at a complete loss for talent, but yes, WV was the better program.

In essence, my points is: Kelly is a blank slate at ND with a great track record of success everywhere over the past 20 years. RR had success at WVU and has, to this point, failed at Michigan. You have to say he has failed so far unless you are accepting 3-13 in your conference and losing records as success.

I view it as a failure, so far, but I was going to give him three years to move from the definition of a pro style team to his variant of the spread. Which you have to agree takes time to mold the players you have and recruit the players you need. So really this is my first year to start judgement. He did botch the D up with his first D cord choice I will say that, I think if we had kept English we'd be in better shape.

If Michigan finishes this year something like 10-2 with victories over OSU/MSU I will be the first person to say he has done a good job and it looks like he has the program heading in the right direction.

So we beat osu and probably the number 2 or 3 team in MSU, and still drop two? We're too young a team for that expectation, we need to beat the teams we're supposed to and pick up one or two we shouldn't. Beating osu puts us at B10 champs, we're not there. But God I hope we pull it out.

Go Blue, as a Michigan fan, I'm really curious... would you rather have Harbaugh or RR?

Man that's tough. On the one hand yes, I'd love to have him with his style and being a "Michigan Man". But on the other I hope RR succeeds, why would I want to go through another few years of rebuilding? And I have to admit, watching RR's O is really fun....I just hope we can develop a D to match it.

 

[IrishLax]

So we beat osu and probably the number 2 or 3 team in MSU, and still drop two? We're too young a team for that expectation, we need to beat the teams we're supposed to and pick up one or two we shouldn't. Beating osu puts us at B10 champs, we're not there. But God I hope we pull it out.

I more meant win one or the other. I think it is very important he wins 2 out of 3 rivalry games and finishes top 3 in the conference (which 6-2 would ensure) to keep his job. I think if he finishes 4th or lower in the conference and loses to both MSU and OSU the administration will take a long, hard look at getting Harbaugh. And that scares me. So I'm rooting for you guys this weekend and that Singletary gets fired so Harbaugh gets the 49ers job.

 

[Wolverine1997]

I'm convinced that once Robinson graduates, Rodriguez will find himself in a tight spot again.

See, Devin Gardner.

Can you name any of Michigan's running backs? Probably not, because they're mediocre and can't produce at all.

Michael Shaw, Vincent Smith.. 5 and 4 touchdowns on the season respectively with a total of 497 yards. Oh and it looks as if #1 runningback in the class of 2011 Demetrius Hart will be committing to Michigan friday. *Knock on wood*

Junior Hemingway (a senior) and Darryl Stonum (a junior) are inconsistent.

I'll give you that on Junior, but for Stonum, he's starting to rise up as of late. The receivers are just fine. The go-to guys are Roundtree, Odoms and Stonum.

they have the absolute worst pass defense in the country.

That is true as of this season. Our only senior in the secondary, Troy Woolfolk is out with an injury and is coming back next season. IF Dee Hart does commit to Michigan, it is rumored that his teammate, safety Ha'Sean Clinton-Dix will come with him. Things are looking bright for the future.


Go Blue! Beat state