Thoughts on the Program and Unchecked Expectation

mgriff

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We may still have a ton of recruit rated talent, but the bottom line is that they were not properly developed since they got here, and it is going to take a lot longer than the nine months Kelly has had to develop the team adequately. It okay to not be content with a loss, but at some point, the unrealistic expectations need to come down. No one plays perfect every week, that is why there is a loss column next to the win one, and especially a team who has been 6-6 the last two years. We could have beaten Michigan, and we are, on paper, able to beat any team on our schedule. We won't though, because we are not a great team. They are not where they need to be, and that isn't all on Kelly. These players, while not neglected, certainly haven't been groomed to their potential. No coach, in this era of college football, could come in and take what's at Notre Dame, and get the team to the BCS in the first year, without some luck. It's possible, but a bunch of shit would have to align for it to happen. He's good, but he'll make mistakes like everyone else.

I think he absolutely could have changed some things up, and maybe, we could have gotten the win, but we didn't. We aren't going to be Florida, Alabama, or Ohio State this year. The building up of our program will take time, so steady improvement is a better indicator than tremendous initial success, just ask Ty and Chuck. It is easy to look at our team and see all the star ratings and think all they need is a coach, but the development takes the longest. All of the issues and lack of development won't vanish because a new coach came in and had one offseason to change things around. There will be more losses this year, and to think that Kelly is good enough to come in and make ND a great team in one year is ludicrous.

They were 6-6 last year, and as much as people want to blame it all on the coach, he's just like the quarterback, too much credit and too much blame. I'm sure enough of it was on Charlie and his staff, but all of it wasn't. Charlie didn't single-handedly lose 6 games last year. The team just isn't where we all want them to be at this point, and its frustrating. I know the last time ND was good, and I mean really good, I was under ten years old. I've gone through high school, and spent all my time in the military, with so many Texas, USC, and Ohio State fans,(all of them fuckers) watching Notre Dame be mediocre, or looking good and getting stomped by a truly good team. All of that doesn't go away in an offseason because Brian Kelly is the coach. He's a great coach, he's proven that everywhere he's been. He is not, however, good enough to get this team where we all want them to be in one year; no one is. There are simply too many problems to fix in the amount of time he's had.

I'm not saying he's going to get it done either, my mantra from the beginning has been not to jump on the latest coaching bandwagon, but he makes it hard. We all want to believe that he is the one who is going to do it, because it's been so long for us as a fanbase. Simply put, the guy needs more time to correct all the deficiencies, no matter how much coach speak he gives us in the media to assuage our fears.

Obviously there is room for debate here, so let me hear what you think.
 
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Irish4Life09

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I completely whole-heartedly agree with you. It is so nice to finally listen to someone with a rational thought process. This will take a little time. We can still win 9 or 10 games this year,the season isn't over. But there really was so much Kelly had to change that it is a process.Next year will probably be the same or a little better. Expect year 3 to be tremendous.
 

tko

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the beauty here is that the team is headed in the right direction. you can see the guys out there competing and kelly constantly coaching on the sidelines. i was impressed with the adjustments in the locker room at halftime. obviously the team got an earful as well, which is fine. we had a chance and came up short but the trend is up.
 

phork

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I think its a little earlier to start waving the white flag. Its Kellys second game here, and while we lost it was not a blow out. We had a chance to win, several times. The kids are competing, for 4 quarters. The defense wasn't as gassed as they would have been last year, or the year before.

I saw nothing but improvement and I don't see us being out of any game this year, and that includes USC. How long has it been that we have said here that "I hope we can keep it close to USC" ? Yes USC is down this year, but not only will we compete, we can win.

I don't expect a NC in year one, hell the Champs Sports Bowl is looking good. But the sky is the limit now, there is no ceiling.
 

NDFan4Life

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I think the true test will be seeing how the team responds to a very disappointing loss. Will they bounce right back up and pound the s**t out of the next team they play? Or will they get into the mindset that that's as good as they'll get? Kelly knows that this team has it in them to continue to fight and beat the crap out of any team remaining on the schedule. The big question will be, does the team believe in themselves?
 

Rudy89

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I could honestly see us losing the next 3 games to be honest. I dunno after a tough loss I just have no optimism we had it but we blew it whats to say we wont blow it again with MSU who always plays us close esp. at their place. Against Stanford and Pitt as well
 

jmurphy75

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People have to realize that a coach can only teach so much during the off season, it isn't until he sees his team in real game situations that he can properly evaluate and coach up the players. I expect/hope that we'll see a week to week improvement with these kids, hell I already see the difference in their attitude and conditioning.
 

jason_h537

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Agree with alot of what you said. Our talent has been very poorly coached for the most part. Especially defensively. The thing that gets me is, yeah we were 6-6 the last 2 years but we were so much better than that. I keep hoping for this every season but i really believe that this year the team WILL get better each week.
 

gspjeb

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to be honest, it is amazing how fast negativity shows up around the Notre Dame fan base. The team, when Crist was in, looked great. The defense only gave up what 7 points to a very good team in the second half.....QB in the whole game, Notre Dame would have won
and I think rather handily. Are they going to win the national championship this year? no....do they look a ton better than last year? absolutely. I think Kelly has done an unbelievable job and will bring national championships back to south bend.

In my opinion the team had a problem with believing in themselves........because the FANS never believe in them.......the sky is always falling. It is one loss and I think we will all look back at the MSU game next week as the coming out party.
 

IrishLax

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Yesterday was the least mad I could possibly be losing a last second game to Michigan. Fact is our team played with a passion, fire and motivation I have NEVER seen an ND team play with in the past decade. To have everything go wrong that went wrong in the first half and come out in the second half the way they did was awesome. Rest assured if we had Crist all game we get the win.

Regardless of the results on the field this year I have a very good feeling about the future. And that is what really matters.
 

IrishinSyria

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Fact is our team played with a passion, fire and motivation I have NEVER seen an ND team play with in the past decade.


Really? I think that's a little much.

They looked good. They'll compete. Crist is a leader. So is Armando. I wish we'd leaned on him a little bit more during the middle of the game. Defense looks gooder. I'm optimistic but good lord I'm doing a please please don't let Crist get hurt dance.
 

mgriff

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to be honest, it is amazing how fast negativity shows up around the Notre Dame fan base. The team, when Crist was in, looked great. The defense only gave up what 7 points to a very good team in the second half.....QB in the whole game, Notre Dame would have won
and I think rather handily. Are they going to win the national championship this year? no....do they look a ton better than last year? absolutely. I think Kelly has done an unbelievable job and will bring national championships back to south bend.

In my opinion the team had a problem with believing in themselves........because the FANS never believe in them.......the sky is always falling. It is one loss and I think we will all look back at the MSU game next week as the coming out party.

I don't see how my post was negative. I think it was pretty "middle of the road" and just offering some explanation. The team did look better when Crist was in, but they still didn't get it done, which is the bottom line. They looked good, but they didn't win. I'm not saying they are a terrible team, and going to go 6-6. I said that they will show improvement from last year, but they won't be where we want, the elite level, for at least another year. My point is that there was far too much expectation with this team, and with Brian Kelly, to think the man could solve all of ND's problems in one offseason. I never said he would or he could, and he hasn't. They have made strides for sure, but they haven't ascended yet, so to speak.
 

GreatGolson

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I will honestly say, any game where crist is in 100% and our D plays the way they did in the second half (minus the last drive) we can win every game, we wont win every game this season but we are able to.
 

IrishLax

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Really? I think that's a little much.

They looked good. They'll compete. Crist is a leader. So is Armando. I wish we'd leaned on him a little bit more during the middle of the game. Defense looks gooder. I'm optimistic but good lord I'm doing a please please don't let Crist get hurt dance.

You're right actually... 2005 against USC sticks out as a good example of our team playing hard in the past 10 years. That was far too bold of a statement on my end.
 

mgriff

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You're right actually... 2005 against USC sticks out as a good example of our team playing hard in the past 10 years. That was far too bold of a statement on my end.

They played hard a lot last year too. Remember all of the down to the wire games? Or the 21 point deficit we had against USC which we almost overcame. Never quitting was one of the staples that people were saying about last year's team. Don't get me wrong I think it's great they didn't quit yesterday, but you act like they rolled over for the last ten years.
 

DillonHall

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They played hard a lot last year too. Remember all of the down to the wire games? Or the 21 point deficit we had against USC which we almost overcame. Never quitting was one of the staples that people were saying about last year's team. Don't get me wrong I think it's great they didn't quit yesterday, but you act like they rolled over for the last ten years.

I completely agree with this. I actually posted something similar to this in another thread. Our teams the past couple years have fought to the end. I think it's a given that you play hard for the entire 60 minutes, and I believe for the most part, that's the way it's been at ND.

Like Kelly said, the bottom line is winning, and they will eventually do it under this coaching staff. I'm a senior and I know that time's running out for me as a student here, but I'm not freaking out because it's a process and I have complete confidence in Kelly.
 

IrishLax

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They played hard a lot last year too. Remember all of the down to the wire games? Or the 21 point deficit we had against USC which we almost overcame. Never quitting was one of the staples that people were saying about last year's team. Don't get me wrong I think it's great they didn't quit yesterday, but you act like they rolled over for the last ten years.

Actually I think we rolled over a lot the past two season... or at least didn't have any kind of killer instinct. UNC game of '08, Syracuse game of '08, Navy games of '08 and '09, Michigan '09, UConn '09... those are off the top of my head games where we either did not play hard or otherwise choked away a lead. In fact the only game I can remember from the past three years where our team really got up for the game was last year against USC when we came out of halftime firing and almost pulled out the W. That is the kind of effort and flying around and excitement I want to see every game regardless of result... and I saw that yesterday. Hopefully we continue to get that every game.
 

IrishLax

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I completely agree with this. I actually posted something similar to this in another thread. Our teams the past couple years have fought to the end. I think it's a given that you play hard for the entire 60 minutes, and I believe for the most part, that's the way it's been at ND.

Like Kelly said, the bottom line is winning, and they will eventually do it under this coaching staff. I'm a senior and I know that time's running out for me as a student here, but I'm not freaking out because it's a process and I have complete confidence in Kelly.

Tell me specifically which games you think we fought to the end on and which ones where you think the effort/focus level wasn't there.
 

ACamp1900

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I don't thinkt he team 'quit' once... I do believe the strength coach was outdated and the lack of a training table (which we now have) was evident in many games... namely the ones you mention Lax... I don't think this team quit fighting one time...
 

DillonHall

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Tell me specifically which games you think we fought to the end on and which ones where you think the effort/focus level wasn't there.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying; I said that pretty much they played hard in each game. My point is that Weis didn't fail because his team didn't play hard. They just weren't developed nor trained well enough. Just because they lost doesn't mean effort was the issue. Last year, we fell behind by double digits against Michigan, Navy, USC, and Pitt. Also, remember the game against Washington with the goal line stands? We never quit in any of these games.
 

jason_h537

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I don't thinkt he team 'quit' once... I do believe the strength coach was outdated and the lack of a training table (which we now have) was evident in many games... namely the ones you mention Lax... I don't think this team quit fighting one time...

Perfect example. Ethan Johnson was playing DT at 270 when we played Stanford.
 

eNDzone

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The effort lacked more in the first 2 1/2 quarters last year than at the end of the game . If they would have started the games with the same sense of urgency that they ended them we would have seen more W's.

I like how Kelly has taken this lose. As a fan I can live with a hard fought lose. I'm not happy but I 'll live. As a coach , Kelly sees loses as unacceptable. We will never win them all without a coach with this attitude. ND might not be there yet but you can be sure if the team adopts the same attitude as the coach they will be.
 
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