Shaq vs Toma - r u kidding me!?!?!

[jonesman]

I have seen the 4000 responses on every website out there regarding the Shaq situation. The only ones I care about are those coming from Kelly. Those are the comments that slightly concern me. Don't get me wrong, I am an HUGE kelly supporter, but I think as he even suggested, he is going to continue to learn things are different at ND than other schools. One of those is the fact that you will have some top level star athletes that he never had to deal with at GVS, CMU or UC. Sometimes he may have to do some things to keep these kids engaged that goes against his normal operating procedure.

One of those actions would be to list a Shaq Evans as the number 2 WR on the depth chart to help keep him engaged. Even BK said today that Shaq was coming along and would have been in the mix to play this fall. So, you list him the Number 2 and give both he and toma some PT.

Even BK said we should not pay too much attention to the depth chart, so why not list the guy who likely has the bigger upside even if he is slightly behind. Are any of you telling me that you believe Toma has a bigger upside than Shaq??

What BK is learning with the Shaq situation is that these 4 and 5 star kids are a different breed and they have choices if you do not play them. They will not necessarily sit around and happily ride the pine. When BK was at these other schools, many of those kids were just happy to be on a D-1 ride. At ND the players were likely being courted by every BCS school and know they can still likely play at many of the schools if not happy at ND.

If BK had listed Toma would have been your 3rd stringer, we likely would not be in this situation. Because toma is not going anywhere. Trust me, he is tickled to in South Bend with his buddy Teo.

For those that think I am off my rocker here, I will place a 2 year bet with you. I bet Shaq becomes much more successful at his next school than Toma at ND. I will bet two tickets to the 2013 home opener!!!

By the way, those who were not so concerned about getting two WR in this recruiting cycle better get concerned. 2011 will be NO FLOYD, KAMARA, SHAQ.

 

[JughedJones]

So if Toma is out performing Shaq, BK should put him on the 2 deep anyway just to placate him?

I don't think I agree and I for one am glad that BK doesn't either. If one kid is giving the effort and showing that he is doing the things that are right for his system, why should he be punished because he has less stars by his name?

And with your reasoning, should BK put Shaq on the 2 deep even though he knows full well that Toma will get the playing time? Or should he give Shaq playing time even though he doesn't deserve it? Either seems dishonest and is not the reason I have such a big man-crush on Coach Kelly.

 

[Freeman Ara]

This isn't a precedent you want to set. Toma obviously earned the listing on the depth chart, if your going to bow down to kids because they start whining about their spot on the depth chart your basically letting the kids run the show. What happened to kids fighting through adversity and beating the guy ahead of you out, especially since it looks like he was going to have the opportunity to do it on the field. Stars only matter when your being recruited, once you hit campus they are worthless, best players should play. Shaq obviously wasn't one of our best players at WR and decided to go a different direction. Sad to see him go but it's his choice not BK's.

 

[KPENN]

So if Toma is out performing Shaq, BK should put him on the 2 deep anyway just to placate him?

I don't think I agree and I for one am glad that BK doesn't either. If one kid is giving the effort and showing that he is doing the things that are right for his system, why should he be punished because he has less stars by his name?

And with your reasoning, should BK put Shaq on the 2 deep even though he knows full well that Toma will get the playing time? Or should he give Shaq playing time even though he doesn't deserve it? Either seems dishonest and is not the reason I have such a big man-crush on Coach Kelly.

Exactly.

 

[Jerry]

Not every big time recruit pans out. And you can't cater to a player, even if he is still young, if it possibly hurts the team. If Shaq goes on to have a great college career then we'll know we blew an opportunity but clearly he wasn't standing out to BK.

 

[Big23Head]

Relax, we have options with recruits. Shaq was on the fence for a while, he just never really seemed to settle in. Toma is a hard nosed player that does what is needed and gets the job done. Let it go.

 

[NDOM]

I have seen the 4000 responses on every website out there regarding the Shaq situation. The only ones I care about are those coming from Kelly. Those are the comments that slightly concern me. Don't get me wrong, I am an HUGE kelly supporter, but I think as he even suggested, he is going to continue to learn things are different at ND than other schools. One of those is the fact that you will have some top level star athletes that he never had to deal with at GVS, CMU or UC. Sometimes he may have to do some things to keep these kids engaged that goes against his normal operating procedure.

One of those actions would be to list a Shaq Evans as the number 2 WR on the depth chart to help keep him engaged. Even BK said today that Shaq was coming along and would have been in the mix to play this fall. So, you list him the Number 2 and give both he and toma some PT.

Even BK said we should not pay too much attention to the depth chart, so why not list the guy who likely has the bigger upside even if he is slightly behind. Are any of you telling me that you believe Toma has a bigger upside than Shaq??

What BK is learning with the Shaq situation is that these 4 and 5 star kids are a different breed and they have choices if you do not play them. They will not necessarily sit around and happily ride the pine. When BK was at these other schools, many of those kids were just happy to be on a D-1 ride. At ND the players were likely being courted by every BCS school and know they can still likely play at many of the schools if not happy at ND.

If BK had listed Toma would have been your 3rd stringer, we likely would not be in this situation. Because toma is not going anywhere. Trust me, he is tickled to in South Bend with his buddy Teo.

For those that think I am off my rocker here, I will place a 2 year bet with you. I bet Shaq becomes much more successful at his next school than Toma at ND. I will bet two tickets to the 2013 home opener!!!

By the way, those who were not so concerned about getting two WR in this recruiting cycle better get concerned. 2011 will be NO FLOYD, KAMARA, SHAQ.

For the bolded statement, I believe coach Kelly knows what he is doing better than you or I do so I trust his judgement if he thinks Toma should be ahead of Shaq. I personally always thought Shaq was gonna be the next Kamara anyway so thats that.

And number 2, I think you are reading too much into this. Let Kelly do his thing. He's been successful in the past so why ruin something good? I trust he knows what he's doing.

You should have seen some of the shit he did at GVSU!!!!! I would have made your head spin, but in the end.......He won games.

 

[tko]

coddling kids isn't the way to go jonesman. kelly is trying to change that culture. kids that work and compete earn their spots, period. if shaq doesn't like what he sees and thinks the grass is greener on the other side then you let him go and wish him luck. the country club atmosphere is gone. kelly is here to win football games, period.

 

[Maddog77]

"If you're afraid of competition, maybe you shouldn't come to Notre Dame" -Brian Kelly

 

[Zibby32]

Competition breeds success. You do not want to compete find some other school to receive free handouts...

 

[JDAtlanta]

Man up, shut up

Man up, shut up

"If you're afraid of competition, maybe you shouldn't come to Notre Dame" -Brian Kelly

and win the job on the field.

 

[TerryTate]

Program > Individual

Floyd, Kamara, Shaq are gone next year. Thanks, noted.

Riddick, TJ, Toma, Austin, Goodman, Jackson, D. Smith, Deion Walker = 8 solid receivers that are back next year. Quit crying and move on.

I'd take Toma over Shaq if his work effort & consistency were better.

 

[Zibby32]

You have to be kidding me, what an exciting opening post.

When are people going to learn that "recruiting stars" mean nothing. Does four stars automatically guarantee a player is going to show up and work hard, be a good team member, and buy into the system? Not at all. Head Coaches are not sitting there like superfans, reading forums and websites about how good a player is. Their evaluation starts at camps, game film evaluation, campus visits, and home visits. That is the criteria in which coaches judge a recruit. Coming to campus you can be almost guaranteed every single player is created as an equal (ask urban down in FL about is future bookend DE's). It is up to the player to by into the program, work hard, and differentiate himself from the rest of the competition.

It is apparent that Shaq got lost along the way. Whether its being far from home, too much competition, or being in the doghouse....it's clear he has had enough.

Too question BK on this one is comical....the moment he gives in and keeps Shaq "engaged" by moving his name up on the depth chart, BK turns his tightly run ship into a runaway train. Keeping a player "engaged" is offering opportunity. It has become outrageously clear to me as remote fan that every position was up for grabs, both in spring ball and in the beginning of training camp. As a hard working player all you can ask for is an opportunity.

Plain and simple, competition breeds success. If you are not willing to compete, then it is probably best that you move along.

 

[rocket31]

is jonesman serious or is this just sarcasm?

 

[JughedJones]

Program > Individual

Floyd, Kamara, Shaq are gone next year. Thanks, noted.

Riddick, TJ, Toma, Austin, Goodman, Jackson, D. Smith, Deion Walker = 8 solid receivers that are back next year. Quit crying and move on.

I'd take Toma over Shaq if his work effort & consistency were better.

Maybe not Floyd.... I convinced him to stay in my NCAA 2011 dynasty!

But seriously, if we make HUGE strides this year..maybe he comes back to try to win a BCS?

Maybe?

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I have seen the 4000 responses on every website out there regarding the Shaq situation. The only ones I care about are those coming from Kelly. Those are the comments that slightly concern me. Don't get me wrong, I am an HUGE kelly supporter, but I think as he even suggested, he is going to continue to learn things are different at ND than other schools. One of those is the fact that you will have some top level star athletes that he never had to deal with at GVS, CMU or UC. Sometimes he may have to do some things to keep these kids engaged that goes against his normal operating procedure.

One of those actions would be to list a Shaq Evans as the number 2 WR on the depth chart to help keep him engaged. Even BK said today that Shaq was coming along and would have been in the mix to play this fall. So, you list him the Number 2 and give both he and toma some PT.

Even BK said we should not pay too much attention to the depth chart, so why not list the guy who likely has the bigger upside even if he is slightly behind. Are any of you telling me that you believe Toma has a bigger upside than Shaq??

What BK is learning with the Shaq situation is that these 4 and 5 star kids are a different breed and they have choices if you do not play them. They will not necessarily sit around and happily ride the pine. When BK was at these other schools, many of those kids were just happy to be on a D-1 ride. At ND the players were likely being courted by every BCS school and know they can still likely play at many of the schools if not happy at ND.

If BK had listed Toma would have been your 3rd stringer, we likely would not be in this situation. Because toma is not going anywhere. Trust me, he is tickled to in South Bend with his buddy Teo.

For those that think I am off my rocker here, I will place a 2 year bet with you. I bet Shaq becomes much more successful at his next school than Toma at ND. I will bet two tickets to the 2013 home opener!!!

By the way, those who were not so concerned about getting two WR in this recruiting cycle better get concerned. 2011 will be NO FLOYD, KAMARA, SHAQ.

Umm... Doesn't Floyd still have one more year of eligibility after this season?? Let's not write him off the NFL yet, I understand that's a strong possibility. But there is plenty of time left for him to make his decision.

 

[timm3117]

and win the job on the field.

Amen

 

[tankjeep]

....talk about a knee jerk reaction. jonesman must be walking with a limp.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

i think he is serious

i think he is serious

is jonesman serious or is this just sarcasm?

look at the bet he laid down! anybody going to take it?

 

[irishtrain]

First off I wish Shaq success. He IS passing up the education that will power him through life and that is a shame but it is his decision. Secondly wideouts are the least of a teams needs and are the easiest to replace. Note how many freshman make a contribution on plain old athletic ability. The message here boys is team/team/team. Of course you want studs like this to buy in and progress but if you think Kelly dropped this guy for any other reason than he wasnt performing to Kelly's expectations you are a fool. Kelly wants these type of athletes but he also wants the guys that buy in unselfishly to team. I am not saying Shaq was selfish-I am saying that I trust Kelly. Personally I take these moves as positive because if your not all in you are out, its that simple. Its about time that the idea of entitlement with this team is put to rest. You produce you play if not sit down-how on earth is there another way to build a team.

 

[phgreek]

look at the bet he laid down! anybody going to take it?

maybe...I'd have to see where Shaq went.

I like Shaq's upside...I think we all do...but I'm just tired of potential unrealized...players, coaches, the entire program...

I don't know whats up w/Shaq....he seems a good kid...I can't speak to why he is 3 deep, but apparently Kelly is seeing something incongruous with the direction he is taking the program.

Kelly is coming in with a proven approach...Shaq may be a casualty of a new approach, and for that I am sorry, but not so much so that I think it is a cost too much to accept.

What we can't accept is more of the same at any level of this program...

 

[IrishMoore1]

Bottom line: ND needs kids who want to be there and who want to play for Our Lady.

Shaq doesn't want to be at ND. There's nothin to do except let him go. ND isn't for everyone. Yeah playing time was probably a factor, but I think more than anything was his lack of desire to be at ND

 

[Irishtat]

Umm... Doesn't Floyd still have one more year of eligibility after this season?? Let's not write him off the NFL yet, I understand that's a strong possibility. But there is plenty of time left for him to make his decision.

Agreed. Great point

 

[Maddog77]

Before people keep calling for these guys to exit to the NFL next year, remember there is a lot of uncertainty in the NFL Labor Agreement and the negotiations. Most are predicting either a shortened 2011 season or no season at all. This may preclude alot of players to leave college early for the NFL. The CBA expires March 2011, right before the NFL Draft.

 

[IrishLax]

Before people keep calling for these guys to exit to the NFL next year, remember there is a lot of uncertainty in the NFL Labor Agreement and the negotiations. Most are predicting either a shortened 2011 season or no season at all. This may preclude alot of players to leave college early for the NFL. The CBA expires March 2011, right before the NFL Draft.

Very insightful.

 

[TerryTate]

Before people keep calling for these guys to exit to the NFL next year, remember there is a lot of uncertainty in the NFL Labor Agreement and the negotiations. Most are predicting either a shortened 2011 season or no season at all. This may preclude alot of players to leave college early for the NFL. The CBA expires March 2011, right before the NFL Draft.

What is the timeline for a prospect declaring himself eligible for the draft?

 

[Irish Man3]

Yea thats makes a lot of sense. Thanks Roby for coming in and abso busting your ass and earning your way. However, according to ESPN you were ranked 199 at your position so unfortunately for you, we will be overlooking your efforts for a guy that was recruited as a four star. I agree, that makes perfect sense.
Lets be sure to tell Rees that his efforts to come in and overtake Montana for the backup role as a true freshman will be overlooked because he is not in the Montana lineage.
As far as I knew, Michael Floyd is a junior and has another year of eligibility and with everything going on with NFL rookie caps, I wouldnt write anyone off. Do me a favor and name me the top 5 WR's at Cinci last year without looking it up? If your honest with yourself than you realize you cant do it. Last I checked we had Floyd, Goodman, TJ, Riddick, Walker, Jackson, and OH YEA that lousy 199th ranked WR that obv works his ass off. Roby Toma may not be as naturally as gifted as Shaq but I'd take a guy with more heart and decent natural ability any day. (RUDY)
Not to mention, if you are a member of ISD you can see the new and updated RKG report for September. You'll notice under players we have a good shot with:
DaVaris Daniels WR
Miles Shuler WR/CB
George Atkinson WR
3 very good WR prospects. I like the fact that BK came out and said after the presser that he didn't try and convince Shaq to stay. Thats not his job. He cares about his players and he did the right thing by granting Shaq his transfer. Thats all he can do, but to say he should've altered the depth chart to better suite Shaq is not the message you want to send to your players.

 

[Junkhead]

The depth chart should just be set by every players recruiting rank.

 

[Maddog77]

If potential and ability were the benchmarks for success in sports, JaMarcus Russell and Ryan Leaf would have been hall of fame quarterbacks. In sports, as in life, the people with the most god given talent aren't always the people who succeed. Sometimes, a lot of good effort and energy is wasted on people who it shouldn't be wasted on.

 

[DirtySecret]

Yea Toma is garbage! This kid couldn't sniff Evans jockstrap..

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By the way he was going against the best ESPN players had to offer that year..