New NCAA Grad Rates

[NDinL.A.]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet on this board, or any other board that I read for that matter. The grad rates for the NCAA is out, and once again ND sits atop the list with Duke, graduating 96% of our players. There hasn't been much to cheer about lately with ND, but this is something to be proud of.

Some other notables:

USC - 58% (up 4%...way to go guys!)
Texas - 49%
UCLA - 51% (coming from a UCLA family, that's an embarrassment)
Oklahoma - 45% (!!!!)
Arizona - 41%
Oregon - 49%
San Jose St - 33%

ND also graduated 100% of its baseball and basketball players.

Check out this article by Stanford's Scout board...they really do a great job breaking down the numbers and showing the grad rate disparity between athletes and the general student population, as well as African-Americans, and they make it very easy to read. I strongly recommend it:

Scout.com: The Bootleg's 2010 Graduation Rate Analysis

 

[phork]

Absolutely shameful. Congrats ND on making people career ready if sports doesn't pan out. How can those other schools sleep at night?

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE SEC'S GRAD RATE IF U TAKE OUT KENTUCKY AND VANDERBILT. CANT BE ANY HIGHER THAN 60% IF THEY ARE LUCKY. I LIVE IN WINNERSVILLE (VALDOSTA GA PER ESPN ) AND IF I HERE OF A KID AROUND THESE PARTS GETTING OFFERED BY ND I KNOW THIS KID IS STRONG IN THE CLASS ROOM AND ON THE FIELD. SAD TO SAY WE STILL MISS OUT ON MOST OF THEM

 

[NDinL.A.]

1. Welcome aboard.

2. Please don't use all caps on your posts. You have 4 posts and they are all caps. It's considered screaming and it's rude; plus it makes your posts very difficult to read. Appreciate it...

 

[IrishInFl]

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet on this board, or any other board that I read for that matter. The grad rates for the NCAA is out, and once again ND sits atop the list with Duke, graduating 96% of our players. There hasn't been much to cheer about lately with ND, but this is something to be proud of.

Some other notables:

USC - 58% (up 4%...way to go guys!)
Texas - 49%
UCLA - 51% (coming from a UCLA family, that's an embarrassment)
Oklahoma - 45% (!!!!)
Arizona - 41%
Oregon - 49%
San Jose St - 33%

ND also graduated 100% of its baseball and basketball players.

Check out this article by Stanford's Scout board...they really do a great job breaking down the numbers and showing the grad rate disparity between athletes and the general student population, as well as African-Americans, and they make it very easy to read. I strongly recommend it:

Scout.com: The Bootleg's 2010 Graduation Rate Analysis

Golden Tate graduated?

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

Gotcha

 

[NDinL.A.]

Golden Tate graduated?

The data is from 2004-2007. Tate and Clausen won't come off the books for several years...

 

[Riddickulous]

Golden Tate graduated?

Tate and Clausen are set to graduate in May.

 

[The Polish Irishman]

These graduation rates show the problem with the NCAA. All they care about is money. If the NCAA was truly cared about "student athletes" programs under 75% graduation rates would be penalized.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

These graduation rates show the problem with the NCAA. All they care about is money. If the NCAA was truly cared about "student athletes" programs under 75% graduation rates would be penalized.

The NCAA needs to do something along with programs that have off the field issues with there thugs. I am talking to u URBAN!!!!

 

[kmoose]

These graduation rates show the problem with the NCAA. All they care about is money. If the NCAA was truly cared about "student athletes" programs under 75% graduation rates would be penalized.

I agree, but one of the things that I don't like, is that the NCAA considers a kid who opts to leave early for the NFL to be a non-graduate. This is, technically, a correct designation. But, how can you hold the school responsible for that? How can you hold a school responsible for a kid that transfers? There are too many variables in the formula, to really start bringing down a heavy hammer based solely on these numbers.

 

[GEORGIA DOMER]

That's why you have to go out and get the RKG's. And hold everyone else accountable.

 

[DaLastFarleyite]

I agree, but one of the things that I don't like, is that the NCAA considers a kid who opts to leave early for the NFL to be a non-graduate. This is, technically, a correct designation. But, how can you hold the school responsible for that? How can you hold a school responsible for a kid that transfers? There are too many variables in the formula, to really start bringing down a heavy hammer based solely on these numbers.

You look at the schools with the high grad rates and those who are not and they're almost always the same schools. So leaving early for the NFL, etc., has little to do with the outcomes. Those schools with low grad rates are not interested in the concept of "student-athlete" end of story.

 

[irishandy]

So Tate is graduating?? I heard that he wasn't. Good news to hear. Congrats to ND on the grad rates.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

Look at SCum, the so called "Harvard of the West." 71% football-I suppose not horrible-still not top three in small 11, but basketball, DEAD last in the Small 11 at 44% OUCH OUCH OUCH, can't wait to publish that stat on my facebook for all my SCum friends who think so highly of their 'vaunted' program *PUKE*

 

[kmoose]

You look at the schools with the high grad rates and those who are not and they're almost always the same schools. So leaving early for the NFL, etc., has little to do with the outcomes. Those schools with low grad rates are not interested in the concept of "student-athlete" end of story.

I'm a big proponent of athletes being actual students. That's one of the reasons that I became an ND fan, lo those many years ago. ND has always done it right, damn "the cost". But, seriously..............

If you put an arbitrary number on it, say 75%? You're saying that graduating 75% of your student/athletes is what you consider to be "serious about athletes being students">. What happens when the basketball team has two or three guys that come out early, one year, and the school comes in at 74.5%? If just one of those guys had stayed, then the school would have been above 75%. If you are the Athletics Director at that school, wouldn't you be pissing and moaning about how unfair the system was? And you would have a point, maybe. Maybe those two or three guys seemed absolutely like RKGs, when you recruited them. But, maybe, their freshman year, the #1 player in the country (who could have come out, the year before, but decided to stay) blows out a knee and will never play basketball again. So those kids got nervous, and decided to chase their NBA dreams as soon as possible. Now you are faced with some kind of sanctions? That's a little harsh.

 

[MirageSmack]

Kids going to the pros, going over seas to play, or transferring do not count toward these numbers. There are a few others that don't count, but too lazy to look it up.

We gotta work on that 4% who haven't graduated. Unacceptable.

 

[dshans]

We gotta work on that 4% who haven't graduated. Unacceptable.

I am as proud of anyone of ND's graduation rate among student-athletes and would love to see it at 100%, but let's not get too rigidly dogmatic or judgmental. Admissions is part science and part art. Not every student who enrolls in college, be it Notre Dame, Harvard, Nassau County CC, USC or Florida, graduates. For any number of reasons.

I remember an orientation something-or-other at ND in 1970. The presenter directed us to look at the person to the left and the person to the right. He said that "One of you won't be here to graduate." To this day the "person to my left," Frank, and I chuckle and shake our heads in amazement when we see each other ... and remain grateful that we beat the odds so bluntly presented.

Scholarships may eliminate financial pressure for some players but add others. There may be twists, quirks and anomalies that are academic, familial, social, time and (even) climate related that come into play. It's an optimistic crap shoot, regardless. With benefits.

I agree that a 100% graduation rate for Irish athletes is a worthy goal. As it is for all accepted to live and learn at Notre Dame. My hope is that the administrators continue to work diligently to attract students who will benefit from being part of the Notre Dame community. And vice versa.

 

[NDinL.A.]

I'm about 96% sure that he was kidding.

Also, guys that leave school earl do count against your grad rate. That's why bball rates are so low for the top schools...

 

[dshans]

I'm about 96% sure that he was kidding.

Agreed. I wasn't rippin'; just riffin'. Any excuse to tell another story.

 

[johnnykillz]

Well I remember back in 'Nam, ...

lol

j/k you ol' hippie.

 

[kmoose]

Kids going to the pros, going over seas to play, or transferring do not count toward these numbers.

Yes they do. That's the point. As long as these numbers count, I will not support sanctioning schools, based on the fact that you could end up screwing a program that is trying to do things right.

 

[BGIF]

Kids going to the pros, going over seas to play, or transferring do not count toward these numbers. There are a few others that don't count, but too lazy to look it up.

We gotta work on that 4% who haven't graduated. Unacceptable.

You're both too lazy to read the article but you both continue the pissing contest based on wrong opinions.

The graduation rates in The Bootleg's analysis are the NCAA's "Graduation Success Rates" (GSRs), which were introduced four years ago. The Graduation Success Rate reflects the percentage of athletes who graduated within six years after starting college. The GSR doesn't count outgoing transfer students, so long as they were in good academic standing. So, losing players due to transfer generally does not hurt a school's graduation rate. Incoming transfers are included in the GSR calculation.
The graduation rates in this analysis are "four class" graduation rates - that is, combined graduation rates for the four most recent classes for which information has been reported. The classes covered by this year's analysis are the classes that would have graduated in the years 2004 through 2007, assuming a five-year track to graduation.

Transfer in good standing - don't hurt.
Transfer in academic difficulty - hurt.

Likewise evaluating multiyear classes minimizes the 34.5% red herring example that was offered in this discussion.

 

[kmoose]

You're both too lazy to read the article but you both continue the pissing contest based on wrong opinions.

The GSR doesn't count outgoing transfer students, so long as they were in good academic standing. So, losing players due to transfer generally does not hurt a school's graduation rate. Incoming transfers are included in the GSR calculation.
The graduation rates in this analysis are "four class" graduation rates - that is, combined graduation rates for the four most recent classes

Transfer in good standing - don't hurt.
Transfer in academic difficulty - hurt.

Likewise evaluating multiyear classes minimizes the 34.5% red herring example that was offered in this discussion.

Mea Culpa. I missed that, when I skimmed the article in the OP. But...........that part only addresses transfers, not early entrants into the Draft (be it the NBA, NFL, NHL, or whatever sport). They don't count as "transfers", do they? While the 4 class rates may make each football player (85 scholarships) count for a small portion, other sports like basketball (15 scholarships?) are still at risk for a statistical blip, if 2 or 3 guys bolt early.

 

[irishtrain]

Facts are facts and if this is correct (and I believe them to be correct) how on earth can you respect these so called student athlete football programs. That is downright embarrassing stuff and why I just laugh at these so called bastians of higher education. Who's kidding who here boys, the Tony Barnhardts of the world, the Mack Browns, the Nick Sabans, the Urban Meyers, etc should be ashamed. They are not because they deal in semi pro football, and they deal in players as expendable units. Thank you Notre Dame!!!!!!!!!!