Recruiting for ND, How hard can it be?

[wakeuptheechoes]

I know that Weis gets a lot of credit for recruiting classes, could it be that Willingham and Davie were just not good at it. I post this because I used to be a recruiter. That's right in my opinion I recruited some of the best men and women in a very difficult era. I was an Army Recruiter in Laporte, County, Indiana from 1986-88 and Keyport, NJ from 88-89. I know many will laugh and say C'mon youve got to be kidding me? But, honestly think for a moment. You must be 18 to join the military 17 w/parental consent. Go back 17-18 years from 1986-1989.
That puts the years 1969-1971, We were engaged in a very unpopular war, and some of those people were permanently influenced as anti-military. The recruits I sought were these people's children. Local Schools were not all that enthusiastic about letting any recruiter into the school because of Military recruiters lying to recruits. (I go on record as saying many of them did, or at least did not tell the whole truth.) With a lot of hard work and a lot of honesty I was able to overcome this and become a highly decorated recruiter. Even if an 18 yea rold potential recruit could sign without his/her parents, I refused to process him/her until I met with the parents so they could ask questions he/she my forget or might not think to ask. I sincerely cared bout these young men and women's future more than getting the enlistment and it showed. I wanted to help them bridge the gap from what they were doing at 18 and what they wanted to do when they were 30.

I worked as a salesman/sales mgr from 1989-2009. I know sales (and that is all a recruiter really is) Any salesman would love th opportunity to sell what ND has to offer, heck the product almost sells itself.

What ND has to offer:
1. First and foremost, One of the finest educational opportunities in a lifetime.
2. A storied football program. rivaled by virtually no one.
3. The opportunity to play for a clean program with tough standards.
3. Approx 8 games on National TV. (Your friends and family see you almost every week)
4. The opportunity to play alongside some of the nations best.
4. The opportunity to play against other great programs.
5. The opportunity to play in a bowl game. (Possibile BCS game)
6. The opportunity to play for a National Championship.
7. A beautiful campus.
8. And much more.

 

[tankjeep]

some good and valid points, but what you have to keep in mind is:

1. notre dame has to recruit nation wide (part of the reason why meyer didn't come here....it would've taken him away from his family for a majority of the year).

2. with recruiting nation wide, you're battling in everybody else's back yard. which makes it even more difficult. (case in point texas and playing at the alamo dome....great move recruiting wise).

3. without juco's how do you bring along top recruits? the answer: slowly, and that's what we are seeing now, young talent growing and getting better. it takes time, especially at notre dame since we don't allow juco's.

4. weather. notre dame is in cold climate region (even more so the deeper you get into the season) and it makes it harder to recruit when the likes of usc and florida have much better climates.

5. academic requirements. i know this is hard for people to understand or grasp, but most players at usc, florida, alabama, etc. would have a hard time getting into notre dame. they may have been recruited and been offered, but they still have to get past admissions.

6. selling the best route to the nfl. cw probably has an advantage over most becuz of his SB rings. that's a plus for us.

overall, without having juco players....regardless how good the talent is that we bring in...there is a growing period/adjustment these kids have to make for the college game. i think we are seeing these kids grow and become better, but we have to be patient.

cw's done an excellent job recruiting but people are looking for immediate results and i think that is unreasonble considering the program put itself under a self-imposed punishment for recruiting violations. so cw hasn't had that much time to really get his foundation for a great program.

five years is not enough, imo. i say we give him til next season and see where the chips may fall.

 

[fitz_bu47]

Agree 100%

 

[IHateMarkMay]

I think a lot of young kids that don't grow up watching ND don't understand the tradition and a lot of times don't care. Most of the time, when these 18 year olds think about it... We have won shit in their life time. So they don't know any better.

 

[PUREBREEDIRISH]

100% Agree.....i.e. Florida State Criminoles, they are trying to clean up their program and look where they are....

 

[BeatSC]

I think a lot of young kids that don't grow up watching ND don't understand the tradition and a lot of times don't care. Most of the time, when these 18 year olds think about it... We have won shit in their life time. So they don't know any better.

If these kids watch CFB or ESPN they can't avoid seeing ND football. CW has recruited well but I don't think we can say that about his D-line. How do his sack counts stack up year to year?

 

[weisbank4]

Im always baffled by the juco angle, do people realize how little this comes into play? Only Denis Ericson used Jucos to the point it mattered and thats because he would take on the worst of the worst who had no business being in college, thats why he could turn around programs in a year.

 

[WaveDomer]

Simple solution: win games and recruiting takes care of itself. ND doesn't need to lower standards or anything else like that. Just win. The school supports the crap out of the football program and does everything to make sure these kids succeed in class. I don't want to hear about standards, cold weather, nothing to do in Indiana or anything else. Win games and Notre Dame will be beating kids away with a stick. Times change, but they don't change that much. Kids still want to win and succeed.

I graduated Tulane and they suck. They can't recruit kids to go to school in New Orleans. Why? Because they don't win and the Admin doesn't give a hang, unless it's baseball for some reason. They spend nothing on facilities etc. because the Admin only cares about being the "Harvard of the South." So don't give me location. Tulane used to be one of the biggest names in college football a long long time ago. They got some mojo back in 1998 going undefeated, but now they are back to being a joke. ND has similar standards for football, maybe a little looser than Tulane. But the big thing ND has is support for the program. They want to win. The alums want to win. The students want to win. They will spend money on the program. Build it and they will come.

 

[Skuch22]

How hard can it be? ha ask Ty willingham he brought in 5 star recruits just with the ND name psht

 

[jason_h537]

Im always baffled by the juco angle, do people realize how little this comes into play? Only Denis Ericson used Jucos to the point it mattered and thats because he would take on the worst of the worst who had no business being in college, thats why he could turn around programs in a year.

Thats not true, USC, Oregon, Alabama, and Florida all have JUCO's at key positions. Especially new hires with little talent like Washington, Bama, Tennessee, and UCLA all go the JUCO route to try and fill holes. Especially in 07 another school would have went the JUCO route to give the team time to develop a player like Clausen, Tate, Brian Smith, Ian Williams, Allen, Kerry Neal, and other true freshman we played that really had no bisuiness being on the field that year.

Now JUCO's are not the reason we are in the position right now but Erickso is not the only coach that does this.

 

[enrico514]

How hard can it be? ha ask Ty willingham he brought in 5 star recruits just with the ND name psht

Ty's two last class were ranked #32 and #40.

 

[enrico514]

Thats not true, USC, Oregon, Alabama, and Florida all have JUCO's at key positions. Especially new hires with little talent like Washington, Bama, Tennessee, and UCLA all go the JUCO route to try and fill holes. Especially in 07 another school would have went the JUCO route to give the team time to develop a player like Clausen, Tate, Brian Smith, Ian Williams, Allen, Kerry Neal, and other true freshman we played that really had no bisuiness being on the field that year.

Now JUCO's are not the reason we are in the position right now but Erickso is not the only coach that does this.

Exactly. It allows these programs to quickly get key guys at key positions. Just ask Alabama fans how happy they are to have gotten their hands on Mount Cody!!!

 

[Skuch22]

Ty's two last class were ranked #32 and #40.

Exactly, it was sarcasm

 

[connor_in]

Simple solution: win games and recruiting takes care of itself.

Nothing personal, but isn't your argument a little bit of the chicken and the egg variety?

If you win games, you get good recruits. However, you need good recruits to win games.

 

[WaveDomer]

Nothing personal, but isn't your argument a little bit of the chicken and the egg variety?

If you win games, you get good recruits. However, you need good recruits to win games.

I know it's nothing personal. Don't sweat that. You don't always need the top recruits to win games. You just don't. We certainly have the recruits now to win and we obviously won when Weis came into town. Good coaching will go a long way towards making a team that can win, with or without 5 star high school talent. Boise State doesn't have that talent level. Yeah, I understand they don't play the toughest schedule. But they win. They win consistently and now have a program.

I understand your point. But my other point is that ND has the structure in place to bring in recruits. They have the backing and the money and the desire. What more do you want?

 

[WaveDomer]

NDNation Features: Never Accept Mediocrity

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

One of the reasons I love ND is because of it's high standards. I would never want them to lower standards. As far as Willingham only recruiting 5 top recruits, that makes my point perhaps he wasn't that good at it. As I have said I have been in sales for over 20 years and even with a great product I have seen good people fail. After all some people are better salespeople than others.

1. Drawback, Cold weather state, I loved to play in cold weather, where the smell of autumn
tickles your nose with a cool sensation, that can only be "Football Weather" and snow, I
loved it too.

2. Drawback, Nationwide recruiting,There are only a few major universities that recruit
nationwide. (I'm not talking about one player here or there.) Of those universities that do
recruit Nationwide only one televises approx 8 games a year on National TV. Still leaving
the opportunity for parents and other relatives to watch them play. You are right it is
college, and universities are further apar,t for away games than competing high schools.

3. JUco players, why are they so important, only a few are. Not so much the ones that had
low academic abilities, some will fix that, most will not after JUCO most of those will low
academic skills are done. Most of the players that are an impact from the JUCO's are
those that were not on the TOP 100 or even TOP 500. After all, who ranks these players
where do they come from. Usually, they come from the traditionally best and consistant
high school programs in the country. Do you really think that someone that ranks the
DT's out of HS has seen everyone of them play. Or any other position, no they are
relying on stats and input from other high school coaches. But how many of the coaches
in Florida have seen a boy from NY, Indiana, or California play. Anyway, JUCO's pick up
the players that played on a 5-6 high school team. Where th coach sucked or the team
was small and limited on talent, because of this the big schools didn't notice and come
calling, But after going to a JUCO that player sticks out. Example: Wherever you are in
country, imagine if Jimmy Clausen, as a Senior in HS at the worst team in your area.
Could he have helped them? Or would the lack of talent catching the ball keep him from
being noticed. I don't care how pretty or far or accurate you throw a football, someone
has to be able to get open and catch it, and vice versa. The same with that tackle that
makes every block, but plays on a crappy hs team. I think it was Woody Hayes, that said
there is a better team in the stands than on the field. You have to route out those
players that don't get the recognition nationally, and go after them. Think about it,
Joe Montana is one of the greatest NFL QB's to ever play, but look how many paid,
supposedly knowledgeable professional scouts and talent evaluators missed that one.
What was he 3rd or 4th round pick. It happens in college as well.

 

[kmoose]

Im always baffled by the juco angle, do people realize how little this comes into play? Only Denis Ericson used Jucos to the point it mattered and thats because he would take on the worst of the worst who had no business being in college, thats why he could turn around programs in a year.

The guy who almost single-handedly tore USC's defense to shreds this year, Oregon's Jeremiah Masoli, is a JUCO transfer.

A ton of PAC-10 coaches use JUCO transfers. Mostly, I think, because most of the JUCOs are in the West. But still.........their JUCO transfers are rarely the stars. But they are almost always the guys who fill roles that allow the stars to be stars.

 

[shortnd]

Ask Ty Willingham about JUCO'S, he loaded his last UW teams with them in desperation, how did that work? Lou got ND administration to take in, IF I remember right, lower grade students, some Prop 48 (or some number) rule. I believe two of those were Chris Zorich and Raghib "Rocket" Ismail. That worked out well.

 

[Master Guns]

some good and valid points, but what you have to keep in mind is:

1. notre dame has to recruit nation wide (part of the reason why meyer didn't come here....it would've taken him away from his family for a majority of the year).

2. with recruiting nation wide, you're battling in everybody else's back yard. which makes it even more difficult. (case in point texas and playing at the alamo dome....great move recruiting wise).

3. without juco's how do you bring along top recruits? the answer: slowly, and that's what we are seeing now, young talent growing and getting better. it takes time, especially at notre dame since we don't allow juco's.

4. weather. notre dame is in cold climate region (even more so the deeper you get into the season) and it makes it harder to recruit when the likes of usc and florida have much better climates.

5. academic requirements. i know this is hard for people to understand or grasp, but most players at usc, florida, alabama, etc. would have a hard time getting into notre dame. they may have been recruited and been offered, but they still have to get past admissions.

6. selling the best route to the nfl. cw probably has an advantage over most becuz of his SB rings. that's a plus for us.

overall, without having juco players....regardless how good the talent is that we bring in...there is a growing period/adjustment these kids have to make for the college game. i think we are seeing these kids grow and become better, but we have to be patient.

cw's done an excellent job recruiting but people are looking for immediate results and i think that is unreasonble considering the program put itself under a self-imposed punishment for recruiting violations. so cw hasn't had that much time to really get his foundation for a great program.

five years is not enough, imo. i say we give him til next season and see where the chips may fall.

great post Tank. keep them coming.

 

[irishfan]

Ask Ty Willingham about JUCO'S, he loaded his last UW teams with them in desperation, how did that work? Lou got ND administration to take in, IF I remember right, lower grade students, some Prop 48 (or some number) rule. I believe two of those were Chris Zorich and Raghib "Rocket" Ismail. That worked out well.

Tony Rice was one. He got a 690 on the SAT and needed a 700, so he had to sit out his frosh year. I have no idea about Zorich or Ismail though.

And Bill Snyder is the king of juco recruiting.

 

[jonesman]

The new king of JUCO is Nick Saban. How do you think he has built that defense. Go take a look. In fact, one of the starting DL is 24 years old. Think of just the physical transformation between 18 and 24, HUGE!!!

 

[NDMontana]

I know that Weis gets a lot of credit for recruiting classes, could it be that Willingham and Davie were just not good at it. I post this because I used to be a recruiter. That's right in my opinion I recruited some of the best men and women in a very difficult era. I was an Army Recruiter in Laporte, County, Indiana from 1986-88 and Keyport, NJ from 88-89. I know many will laugh and say C'mon youve got to be kidding me? But, honestly think for a moment. You must be 18 to join the military 17 w/parental consent. Go back 17-18 years from 1986-1989.
That puts the years 1969-1971, We were engaged in a very unpopular war, and some of those people were permanently influenced as anti-military. The recruits I sought were these people's children. Local Schools were not all that enthusiastic about letting any recruiter into the school because of Military recruiters lying to recruits. (I go on record as saying many of them did, or at least did not tell the whole truth.) With a lot of hard work and a lot of honesty I was able to overcome this and become a highly decorated recruiter. Even if an 18 yea rold potential recruit could sign without his/her parents, I refused to process him/her until I met with the parents so they could ask questions he/she my forget or might not think to ask. I sincerely cared bout these young men and women's future more than getting the enlistment and it showed. I wanted to help them bridge the gap from what they were doing at 18 and what they wanted to do when they were 30.

I worked as a salesman/sales mgr from 1989-2009. I know sales (and that is all a recruiter really is) Any salesman would love th opportunity to sell what ND has to offer, heck the product almost sells itself.

What ND has to offer:
1. First and foremost, One of the finest educational opportunities in a lifetime.
2. A storied football program. rivaled by virtually no one.
3. The opportunity to play for a clean program with tough standards.
3. Approx 8 games on National TV. (Your friends and family see you almost every week)
4. The opportunity to play alongside some of the nations best.
4. The opportunity to play against other great programs.
5. The opportunity to play in a bowl game. (Possibile BCS game)
6. The opportunity to play for a National Championship.
7. A beautiful campus.
8. And much more.

How hard can it be? Well, when the best high school players in the country reside in Florida, Texas and California....it's pretty hard to convince them:

1. That it would better for them to come to ND instead of the schools that they dreamed of growing up.
2. That it's desirable to play in Indiana where it snows and November and is down right freezing in December, January, February and sometimes March.
3. That going to a school that they probably grew up mocking--or at least heard other people mocking--is going to win them much respect in their hometowns.

It's also hard to recruit with the academic and character standards that administration strenuously upholds.

 

[BGIF]

... Lou got ND administration to take in, IF I remember right, lower grade students, some Prop 48 (or some number) rule. I believe two of those were Chris Zorich and Raghib "Rocket" Ismail. That worked out well.

Neither Zorich nor Ismail were Prop 48.

Tony Rice and John Foley were admitted in 1986 and were the only Prop 48's ND admitted.

 

[BGIF]

ND Prop 48's

ND Prop 48's

I thought this was a familiar topic and found a great (IMHO) reference from 2006:

BGIF posted on IrishEnvy 08-16-2006, 10:33 PM

You guys are wrong. It wasn't Zorich, it was John Foley in 1986. He was a linebacker out of Chicago. I am pretty sure he was National Defensive Player of the Year too.

We have a winner!


ND admitted Prop 48s one year only, 1986. Zorich wasn't on campus in '86.

Zorich was not a prop 48. He only played 3 season because he left early.

Rice and Foley were admitted in '86 but sat out the season - as Prop 48's were required to do. Foley was a Parade AA/Defensive POY. Played one season for ND '87. Had a career ending injury in a bowl game. Inner city Chicago kid like Zorich which may be why people think Zorro was the other 48.

 

[BGIF]

From the IrishEnvy Archives

From the IrishEnvy Archives

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BGIF post [/FONT][FONT=Arial, sans-serif]08-17-2006, 12:42 AM[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]

Former Irish prodigy thriving in life after football August 31, 2001

Catching up with ... John Foley
By ERIC HANSEN Irish Sports Report

There are nights when John Foley thrashes and squirms until the alarm clock rescues him at 4 a.m.
Even after a good night's sleep, it's never a given that the former Notre Dame football player will be able to get out of bed by himself or hug his sons without pain or shave without remembering the hit that ended his career.
But every day John Foley looks in the mirror and his eyes light up.

"I'm feel like the luckiest guy in the world," he said. "I live with a lot of pain, but I've been given a lot of gifts. The best thing that ever happened to me was for my football career to end. It opened the door to my dreams."

Foley's two youngest sons, Tyler (7) and Nicholas (4), think their dad works flipping burgers. The 34-year-old Notre Dame graduate actually works for a firm called McDonald Investments, drives a Mercedes Benz from St. Charles. Ill., into Chicago every day and shares a 5,000-square foot home with wife Pam, son Ryan (9) and the two younger boys.
He reads incessantly, rarely socializes outside the family and cringes that Ryan has taken up football.

"I never knew that life had so much out there," he said. "I mean, I lived in an apartment in the inner city growing up. My dad drove a beer truck. My mom worked as hard as anyone. But we didn't have much. So I was floored when I got to Notre Dame and there were kids who had computers in their rooms and whose dads had company cars.
"It's amazing the opportunity Notre Dame creates."
And equally amazing was how well Foley took advantage of it.

The hit
It was the tail end of Foley's sophomore year and Notre Dame was matched up with Texas A&M in the Cotton Bowl to cap the 1987 season. The Aggies had a promising, young linebackers coach by the name of Bob Davie and the Irish had newly crowned Heisman Trophy winner Tim Brown.
Foley was hardly a footnote in the scheme of things. The former Parade All-America linebacker and USA Today Defensive Player of the Year had been switched to the defensive line late in the season and appeared as if he had found a home there. His performance on the line against the Aggies was stellar.
The Chicago product had long been a terror on special teams and was operating with his usual proficiency that New Year's Day, even as the Aggies were pummeling the Irish 35-10.
"If you look at the tapes, Tim Brown almost broke the first two kickoffs for touchdowns," Foley said. "One of the reasons was because I was taking their '12th man' out every time. But the third kickoff they changed their strategy.

Texas A&M sent the two players after Foley -- "one to distract me, one to take me out," he remembers.
"I got hit so hard, I couldn't think straight. I mean, one guy put his helmet in my neck. I played the rest of the game, but my career was over. I lost the use of my right arm for about a year. The doctors told me that it might get better for a while but that down the line it would affect me tremendously. Eventually, they said, the pain would come back and it might never go away."

That wasn't the scariest part for Foley, however. Being separated from football forever was.
"I honestly had a lot of emotional problems when I got hurt," Foley said. "I actually, no exaggeration, thought my life was going to end. I didn't think I was smart enough to get a real job. I never had confidence that I could do anything out in the real world."

The slap in the face

What Foley never realized was that he had long been immersed in the real world, and the NCAA saw to that.
The NCAA had just instituted its most controversial legislation in years -- Proposition 48. Prospective student-athletes would henceforth be held to minimum GPAs in their "core curriculum" and minimum scores on the SAT and/or ACT college entrance exams.
Prospects who did not meet the minimums would be required to sit out their freshman season with no opportunity to so much as practice with the team and no opportunity to recoup that lost year -- even if they went on to become valedictorian of their class. (Proposition 48 still exists today, but in a much less restricted form).

The first group to be affected by the rule were the freshmen entering college in the fall of 1986. Foley, Tony Rice and Irish men's basketball player Keith Robinson were all snagged by the new legislation and ended up being the only Prop 48 players ND has ever accepted.

"I can remember how hard it was on me to have football taken away from me," said Rice, who eventually quarterbacked ND to the 1988 national title and received his degree.
"But for John, I think it was even worse. I'm glad he stuck in there. I'm glad he didn't give up."
Prop 48 casualties in that era carried a stigma. Some walked away from college altogether. The ones that stuck with it were often heckled by opposing fans in the games and fellow students in the hallways.

"I laugh at those people now who made that rule," Foley said. "I don't want to sound arrogant, but I probably make two to three times what the president does. But then again, I owe it all to Notre Dame and to Lou Holtz."


Picking up the pieces
While playing football for the Irish, Foley hated Holtz, loathed his methods, was confused about what he stood for.
When he suffered the injury, that perception died.

"I wasn't taking school very seriously when I was playing ball," Foley said. "And I really didn't think Lou Holtz cared about grades anyway. Well, let me tell you something, Lou Holtz cares as much as anybody. Lou Holtz spent more time with me after football was no longer there for me than when I was a player. The whole university supported me. I owe everything to Notre Dame."

Foley graduated and found his way into the business world. He listened to motivational tapes in the car and metabolized every word. His wife put up with moves to Minnesota, Massachusetts, Tennessee and back to the Chicago area all within a five-year period as Foley eschewed the corporate ladder for a high-speed elevator.

"I turned down a job for seven figures a few months ago," Foley said. "It just wasn't a good fit."
Life as he knows it, though, is a good fit -- even though the doctors were right about the pain coming back.
"It happened when I was 27," he said. "Now, I've got a lot of swelling in my spine. Eventually, I'll need reconstructive surgery on my back. It's just a matter of when."
Yet if the pain never went away, Foley wouldn't rewrite the script.

"Life goes on without football because of Notre Dame," he said. "I never stop thinking about how grateful I am. In fact, I called Lou Holtz a few months ago and left a voice mail, thanking him.
"And when I can't sleep in the middle of the night, that's a great thought to hang onto. I'm 34 and I have my whole life ahead of me.
"I'm blessed."

[/FONT]

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

How hard can it be? Well, when the best high school players in the country reside in Florida, Texas and California....it's pretty hard to convince them:

1. That it would better for them to come to ND instead of the schools that they dreamed of growing up.
2. That it's desirable to play in Indiana where it snows and November and is down right freezing in December, January, February and sometimes March.
3. That going to a school that they probably grew up mocking--or at least heard other people mocking--is going to win them much respect in their hometowns.

It's also hard to recruit with the academic and character standards that administration strenuously upholds.

First, I disagree about the best players coming from 3 states. They are the 3 of the most populous states with more schools. Although many do come from those states. How many high schools are across the nation? Not every player is evaluated. Only the players in traditionally good programs. Think about it. Do you honestly think, that these experts have seen every player at every position in high school? Similarly, the NFL often gets it wrong with players coming out of college. Jerry Rice Had 15 teams pick someone else. I do not believe the experts in the high school reports are any better. 15 teams with pro scouts and general managers passed on Jerry Rice, and the reason, he was slow; 4.71 in the 40. I am not saying the players that are evaluated are not great players, I am just saying many have been missed.

Also there will always be competition, for players. People growing up in Cal, Texas, and Florida as with all states, will have the athletes they have always dreamed of playing for their respective local team. You won't get those kids anyway,if they have been offered a scholarship from their respective "dream team." The athletes you compete for are not those that have their heart set on one school and are offered a scholarship by that school. You compete for the ones that may have their heart set on a particular school, but not being offered a scholarship by that particular school, or the ones that have left their options open. As far as the ones that are overlooked there is usually no serious competition at all. As a salesperson, you never make every sale, and there is always competition. But if you pre-qualify or pre-disqualify because of where the kid lives you will never get any of them.

As an Army recruiter, I have heard similar arguments, from failed or failing recruiters. There are always excuses. As a sales manager the same thing from failed or failing salespeople. That is why they fail. They beat themselves before ever making contact with the individual.

 

[NDMontana]

First, I disagree about the best players coming from 3 states. They are the 3 of the most populous states with more schools. Although many do come from those states. How many high schools are across the nation? Not every player is evaluated. Only the players in traditionally good programs. Think about it. Do you honestly think, that these experts have seen every player at every position in high school? Similarly, the NFL often gets it wrong with players coming out of college. Jerry Rice Had 15 teams pick someone else. I do not believe the experts in the high school reports are any better. 15 teams with pro scouts and general managers passed on Jerry Rice, and the reason, he was slow; 4.71 in the 40. I am not saying the players that are evaluated are not great players, I am just saying many have been missed.

I didn't say the only good players reside in California, Texas and Florida; I said the best players come from those states. You can say what you'd like but there's a reason that the Big Ten and Big East are no longer really power conferences. What three schools have sustained a high level of play over the last decade? Florida, USC, Texas and Oklahoma (sans this year). Do you think that USC, Texas and Florida have rosters chalk full of guys from Michigan, Indiana, Pennsylvania, Montana....nope.

The assessment of Jerry Rice is great. The problem is that I didn't say there weren't good players from other states, I said the best are from the aforementioned three states. Do you think the Notre Dame's of the world have time to go out looking for a needle in the hay stack, a diamond in the rough? Even Brady Quinn got to ND by accident. There's a reason they played in San Antonio and why Charlie's staff has fought like hell to get into the Cali, Florida, Texas recruiting pipelines.

Also there will always be competition, for players. People growing up in Cal, Texas, and Florida as with all states, will have the athletes they have always dreamed of playing for their respective local team. You won't get those kids anyway,if they have been offered a scholarship from their respective "dream team." The athletes you compete for are not those that have their heart set on one school and are offered a scholarship by that school. You compete for the ones that may have their heart set on a particular school, but not being offered a scholarship by that particular school, or the ones that have left their options open. As far as the ones that are overlooked there is usually no serious competition at all. As a salesperson, you never make every sale, and there is always competition. But if you pre-qualify or pre-disqualify because of where the kid lives you will never get any of them.

I never said it was impossible. I said it was difficult. Obviously this staff doesn't think it's impossible either.

As an Army recruiter, I have heard similar arguments, from failed or failing recruiters. There are always excuses. As a sales manager the same thing from failed or failing salespeople. That is why they fail. They beat themselves before ever making contact with the individual.

I'm not in sales...so no pep talk needed here. At the base level recruiting is recruiting but I think the reasons that people select colleges vs. the reasons they would join the armed services make the comparison somewhat inappropriate.

By the way, I sincerely want to thank you for your service to our country; it's noble calling and you're certainly a better man than I am.

 

[WaveDomer]

Here are the top 25 high school teams in the country: Lack of upsets brings only minor shuffling to Super 25 - USATODAY.com Best teams don't always mean they have the best players, but it's interesting to see that the schools are pretty spread around. Although, Texas is pretty well represented.

 

[wakeuptheechoes]

I didn't say the only good players reside in California, Texas and Florida; I said the best players come from those states.

Then You are saying more ranked players from 3 out of the 4 most populous states.
That goes without saying. My point is how many scholarships do these schools give every year.

I'm not in sales...so no pep talk needed here. At the base level recruiting is recruiting but I think the reasons that people select colleges vs. the reasons they would join the armed services make the comparison somewhat inappropriate.

They are re-markedly similar actually. Similar to deciding which branch to join. Which one offers you the best opportunity to get each individual what they are looking for.

[QUOTE}By the way, I sincerely want to thank you for your service to our country; it's noble calling and you're certainly a better man than I am.[/QUOTE]

Thank you, but never sell yourself short.