Change we can believe in

[IrishAlum1997]

One nation under God SINCE 1954. Pre-1954 it was a SOCIALIST PLEDGE...hahahahaha

Touche, LMI. Keep that sense of humor, because I'm sure there's more coming...

Das good, comrade.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Beat me to it, I can not believe he said that...

What's so hard to believe? That he said something so painfully obvious that it was almost insulting to the Muslims? Or was it just condescending to them?

Honestly, to say that the US is not a Christian Nation is like saying "Hey, guess what...Water is wet!" So I did think it WAS condescending.

But...while it's pretty obvious, but a ton of those crazies in Muslim countries think we are...which should not be a surprise, since they are crazy.

 

[IrishAlum1997]

LMI, we can always count on you to be the sense of treason, I mean, reason around here.

Happy Birthday to me, by the way!

 

[Sureal]

I jacked up my knee and was out of it for the past couple of days... What was said?

 

[Bubba]

Beat me to it, I can not believe he said that... I find it hard to support him in any way... and what "idealists" fail to get through their thick heads is that forcing Christians to publicly spit on their own beliefs is NOT "justice for all"... its justice for the Godless (or at very least the anit- Christian)... the same Godless who since the early 1960s have destroyed our moral compass, wrekced the American family, continue to point the finger at Christians for being too firm and inflexable and then turn right around and flaten other peoples beliefs with their own... some "ideals"

Obviously Obama and his staff does not care about "all"... just "his"

This could be said about every politician we've ever had. At least about the last several anyway.

In addition, there have been plenty of Christians who have destroyed our moral compass and wrecked the American family. This is not a distinction limited to only the godless.

 

[ACamp1900]

I am so sick of hearing Obama, Hilary and Co. blame the American public for the drug war in Mexico... The American pubilc never went and sought out drug dealers to push to them... the drug dealers found US and the rest in history...

this is typical liberal logic, blame someone else (usually whatever NORM or majority group that may be involved) and give those truely responible a complete pass...

Blaming America for Colombia and Mexcio is like blaming school kids who get drugs pushed on them for creating a drug market. All while giving the pusher a pass for getting kids hooked on drugs. After all, it's not the pushers fault, the kids created the market...

but lord knows telling it like IT IS takes back bone... something SORELY lacking in our nations capital right now

 

[ACamp1900]

What's so hard to believe? That he said something so painfully obvious that it was almost insulting to the Muslims? Or was it just condescending to them?

Honestly, to say that the US is not a Christian Nation is like saying "Hey, guess what...Water is wet!" So I did think it WAS condescending.

But...while it's pretty obvious, but a ton of those crazies in Muslim countries think we are...which should not be a surprise, since they are crazy.

I believe that is out thinking ones self... I hear accurately representing the country and not offending our own citizens (I could give a shit beyond that at this point) but does anyone stop to think that implying IDEALS are opposite to that which is Christain may be insulting to us???????...... OR that in an IDEAL nation everyone would have their ways protected, not just everyone who isn't Christian... which is EXACTLY what Obama is doing with his abortion and gay rights laws... allowing is one thing... FORCING it on those who view it as sin is another... some IDEALS

This could be said about every politician we've ever had. At least about the last several anyway.

In addition, there have been plenty of Christians who have destroyed our moral compass and wrecked the American family. This is not a distinction limited to only the godless.

I agree, everyone has had their faults in our gov... and did not say those who don't believe in god wrecked the country as your response seemed to imply... BUT in terms of the American family...

Most churchs teach wedlock, community, acitive parenting techniques that worked for literally thousands of years before the 1960s as well as personel accountability...

These are now looked at as "Anti female" or "oppressive" or flat out wrong by many in Washington... just saying

 

[Bubba]

I agree, everyone has had their faults in our gov... and did not say those who don't believe in god wrecked the country as your response seemed to imply... BUT in terms of the American family...

Most churchs teach wedlock, community, acitive parenting techniques that worked for literally thousands of years before the 1960s as well as personel accountability...

These are now looked at as "Anti female" or "oppressive" or flat out wrong by many in Washington... just saying

I didn't imply anything. I addressed your comment that the godless wrecked the American family. And, I personally believe that some Christians are guilty as well. Yes, most teach wedlock and community, but some are just as intolerant as those godless people.

My personal experiences influence my stance, of course. Before I became Catholic, I was searching for my spiritual identity. I attended several churches of differing denomination. At one point I was even convinced that I would just be Agnostic forever. It was a greuling journey for me. One particular church comes to mind where the pastor, who seemed really nice at first, showed his true colors when my wifes Mom was in town. He invited himself over and decided he should warn her that she was going to hell because she was Catholic and was not following the one true path to God. (MY way or the highway!) So much for regard to honoring our Mother and Father. His teachings, and others like his, harm the American family just as much by preaching intolerance and dividing otherwise healthy families.

 

[IrishAddiction]

Did anyone see how he rescued the captain that was held captive by pirates?!! at least thats what the media portrayed him as doing. Also, just wondering, but did anyone see our great president, the leader and representative of our entire country, actually BOW DOWN to another countrys leader???? (Saudia Arabia, look it up if you dont believe me) America bows to no one but God IMO. More and More reasons for me to hate liberal morons.

 

[Junkhead]

Did anyone see how he rescued the captain that was held captive by pirates?!! at least thats what the media portrayed him as doing. Also, just wondering, but did anyone see our great president, the leader and representative of our entire country, actually BOW DOWN to another countrys leader???? (Saudia Arabia, look it up if you dont believe me) America bows to no one but God IMO. More and More reasons for me to hate liberal morons.

And we wonder why every other country despises us. Chest thumping, ignorance, and faux patriotism.

 

[notredomer23]

And we wonder why every other country despise us. Chest thumping, ignorance, and faux patriotism.

countries dont hate us...they hate our governement. I had a chance to tour Europe 2 summers ago and the overall response from the people of countries such as France and they love American culture, they just hate the goverment

 

[ACamp1900]

I didn't imply anything. I addressed your comment that the godless wrecked the American family. And, I personally believe that some Christians are guilty as well. Yes, most teach wedlock and community, but some are just as intolerant as those godless people.

My personal experiences influence my stance, of course. Before I became Catholic, I was searching for my spiritual identity. I attended several churches of differing denomination. At one point I was even convinced that I would just be Agnostic forever. It was a greuling journey for me. One particular church comes to mind where the pastor, who seemed really nice at first, showed his true colors when my wifes Mom was in town. He invited himself over and decided he should warn her that she was going to hell because she was Catholic and was not following the one true path to God. (MY way or the highway!) So much for regard to honoring our Mother and Father. His teachings, and others like his, harm the American family just as much by preaching intolerance and dividing otherwise healthy families.

I have had a lot of the same experiences... and understand where the frustration towards the Far right comes from at times... but you don't preach tolerance and idealism and then suppress the other side imo

but to clarify, my comments were towards the left and I stand by them... frustrating with overzealtry is one thing... flat out teaching children to dishonor their parents and hide their life from them while teaching a complete and inexcusable lack of accountablity in another...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I believe that is out thinking ones self... I hear accurately representing the country and not offending our own citizens (I could give a shit beyond that at this point) but does anyone stop to think that implying IDEALS are opposite to that which is Christain may be insulting to us???????

Not sure I follow you here. We are a Western Nation, but not a Christian one... Saying we are NOT a Christian one, but rather a SECULAR one could not have been more accurate or correct. Speaking in Turkey that has a TON of meaning behind it.

...... OR that in an IDEAL nation everyone would have their ways protected, not just everyone who isn't Christian... which is EXACTLY what Obama is doing with his abortion and gay rights laws... allowing is one thing... FORCING it on those who view it as sin is another... some IDEALS

Again that does not make sense. Plenty of Christians (myself included) are Pro-Choice and Pro-GayMarriage.

Supporting those views is not anti-Christian in anyway in my opinion. Your sect may disagree with mine...but let's be clear neither one decides what is or is NOT Christian for OTHER Christians. Or more to the point, neither one is THE litmus test.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Did anyone see how he rescued the captain that was held captive by pirates?!! at least thats what the media portrayed him as doing.

Ed Rollins a dyed-in-the-wool bastian of Republicanism gave Obama major kudos.
Commentary: Obama made right call on rescue - CNN.com

Editor's note: Ed Rollins, a senior political contributor for CNN, was political director for President Ronald Reagan and chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee.

NEW YORK (CNN) -- A president makes many decisions, but none is more important than those he makes as commander in chief. Committing young men and women to war zones where their lives are at risk is a decision that can't be easily reversed, and the consequences can be fatal.

The second type of difficult decision a president faces is setting the rules of engagement; allowing American troops to do their job even if that means taking the life of the enemy.

Ronald Reagan, a president I served, was beloved by the American military. He rebuilt a military crippled by the nightmare of Vietnam. After the humiliating evacuation from that costly war, we had planes that couldn't fly and ships that couldn't sail due to missing parts and deferred maintenance.

Equally upsetting, we had underpaid sailors, soldiers and Marines, many who were on food stamps and many more using and selling recreational drugs to escape their demoralized state of mind. That changed, beginning in 1981, and today we have the most professional and competent military in the world. But every bit as important as more pay and better equipment was that our military knew that President Reagan was in their corner and was going to let them do their job.

That was epitomized by an incident on August 18, 1981, when two United States F-14s, flying off the carrier USS Nimitz, shot down two Soviet-made Su-22 fighters of the Libyan air force during naval maneuvers off the coast of Libya.

The "madman" leader of Libya, Col. Moammar Gadhafi, had declared that any U.S. plane that came within 200 miles of the coast of Libya, "The Line of Death," would be shot down. International law said a country's border was only 12 miles off the coast. Before the exercises began, in international waters, the Navy asked the president in the Oval Office what the rules of engagement were.

"Our pilots are free to shoot back at anyone who fired at them," Reagan answered. "What about 'hot pursuit,' " a Navy admiral asked. "Suppose the Libyan planes shoot at ours and then flee back into Libyan territory. Do you authorize us to follow them?"

"You can follow them back into their own damn hangars if you have to!" Reagan responded.

Within hours, that story had joyfully spread throughout the Pentagon, and the military knew it had a leader who would back them up.

President Obama's authorization of Saturday's hostage rescue of Captain Richard Phillips, and the justified killing of three Somali pirates by Navy SEAL sharpshooters, took real courage and was certainly the right decision.

Anything less, and his administration would have been second-guessed and the military high command would have been left to wonder what kind of man was leading our nation and our military. A brave American hero's life was at stake, and the president and the Navy made the right decisions. There are, and will be, many things our new president and I will disagree on. But so far, I applaud what he has done regarding our armed services.

His first decision -- to keep Secretary of Defense Robert Gates -- was the best he could make. Gates is one of the finest public servants this country has ever had, and his service to Democratic and Republican presidents has been outstanding.

He was the first person to start at the entry level in the CIA and rise from the ranks to be the director. He served two tours of duty in the White House on the national security team and is a Russia and China expert.

When he took over the Defense Department from the insufferable Donald Rumsfeld, the former Eagle Scout and Texas A&M University president quickly restored morale among the generals and the troops. He rebuilt confidence among the congressional leaders that had been lost during the protracted wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Shortly after his appointment as the 22nd secretary of defense, he removed the secretary of the Army and the Army surgeon general over the Walter Reed Army Medical Center neglect scandal.

He later removed the secretary of the Air Force and the Air Force chief of staff over errors in the shipment of nuclear weapons. And he shook the entire military structure when he did not recommend the chairman of the Joint Chiefs for a second term. Accountability was the message sent from top to bottom at the Pentagon. He has also carefully guided the new president through a withdrawal plan for Iraq and an enhanced program to deploy more troops to Afghanistan.

I am not a defense expert and never served in the military. But the secretary's new defense budget seems reasonable, well thought through and, most of all, will serve the men and women in combat today in two combat zones. It also deals with the real threats facing our country today and in the near future: terrorism and guerrilla warfare.

Adding strength to Obama's war council is his national security adviser, retired four-star Gen. James Jones, a 40-year veteran, former commandant of the Marine Corps, and winner of a Silver Star and the Defense Distinguished Service Medal, the United States' highest peacetime defense award.

Jones, a Vietnam War platoon and company commander, also was commander of the United States European Command and the supreme allied commander Europe. He is a tough, smart and no-nonsense leader. You don't get four stars on your shoulders in the Marine Corps unless you "can walk on water."

Another major voice who will be responsible for our veterans when they return home is Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki, a former four-star general and chief of staff of the Army. Shinseki was the man who correctly told Congress that Rumsfeld had not committed sufficient troops for the post-war occupation of Iraq. He too is a decorated veteran of the Vietnam War and also the war in Bosnia.

The bottom line is the president has a first-rate team of advisers and he followed their counsel in this hostage crisis. There will be many more tests to come for the president and his team, but the message from this event is that if you harm or capture an American anywhere in the world, you will pay a heavy price.

As one American, I can just say, "Thank you Mr. President!"

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

countries dont hate us...they hate our government. I had a chance to tour Europe 2 summers ago and the overall response from the people of countries such as France and they love American culture, they just hate the goverment

Maybe they just hated Bush and company. But also, maybe it is too big a generalization to infer, based on one summer vacation, that all "countries" love the U.S.

Hell neighbors in same neighborhoods around the world can't even get along...

 

[no.1IrishFan]

Not sure I follow you here. We are a Western Nation, but not a Christian one... Saying we are NOT a Christian one, but rather a SECULAR one could not have been more accurate or correct. Speaking in Turkey that has a TON of meaning behind it.



Again that does not make sense. Plenty of Christians (myself included) are Pro-Choice and Pro-GayMarriage.

Supporting those views is not anti-Christian in anyway in my opinion. Your sect may disagree with mine...but let's be clear neither one decides what is or is NOT Christian for OTHER Christians. Or more to the point, neither one is THE litmus test.

I look at life as a gift from God,from the moment of conception until the day one dies. When a woman becomes pregnant I believe that God has placed that child in her womb and has blessed her with a gift. For me to accept that killing this gift is not anti-Christian in any way is farther than my convictions will let me go.

Psalms 22:10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mothers womb you have been my God. (NIV)


Psalms 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb. (NIV)

As a Christian I cannot read and believe scriptures like these and ever support abortion.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I look at life as a gift from God,from the moment of conception until the day one dies. When a woman becomes pregnant I believe that God has placed that child in her womb and has blessed her with a gift. For me to accept that killing this gift is not anti-Christian in any way is farther than my convictions will let me go.

Psalms 22:10 From birth I was cast upon you; from my mothers womb you have been my God. (NIV)

Psalms 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mothers womb. (NIV)

As a Christian I cannot read and believe scriptures like these and ever support abortion.

I totally understand your viewpoint, but given that we disagree on the fundamental premise of when life begins...we are at an impasse.

But like I said, given all the divisions in Christianity, it's impossible to say that one branch is more right that the other in the public sense. People can say it and feel it, but it won't make it true.

 

[ACamp1900]

I totally understand your viewpoint, but given that we disagree on the fundamental premise of when life begins...we are at an impasse.

But like I said, given all the divisions in Christianity, it's impossible to say that one branch is more right that the other in the public sense. People can say it and feel it, but it won't make it true.

well, if my posts have been unclear I am sorry, I have posted in this thread while breaking my personal mod promise to always wait if I am upset... so there that is...

I could care less what other politicans think or say in the long run, this is of course politics... i make up my own mind, and Reagan era politicans aren't my concern NOW... and again you continue to thump your feelings on abortion and gay rights... I AGREE with abortion and gay rights to a certain point (Once a heart is beating, mind is thinking and lungs are functioning the child is alive and anyone who contests that is borderlins monsterous to me, and Obama agreed as late as the first debate) but that is NOT THE ISSUE!!!!

the issue is that coming from a man who spews "idealism" and "tolerance" he sure is quick to stomp on peoples beliefs and force them to do what they view as damn-able... again, allowing is one thing, and is understandable when you have such philosophical differences... FORCING is something else and completely hypocritical coming from the party of "tolerance"

*AND* it's seperation of church and state (Something the left wanted) that means seperation of church from the state and seperation of state from the church... if a church doesn't want to marry someone or perform abortions on philosophical/religious grounds then that should be their right to do so correct??? talk about having someone else's cake and eating it too

combine that with the context of when, how, why and who he made the non christian comment to and it is easy to see the guy is assulting traditional Judeo-Christian ethics head on... and that he implied no Christian nation could be ideal and no ideal nation could be Christian... saying, "We are not a Christian nation, we are a non secular nation" would have been FAR less insulting as well as accurate ( I wonder if his obvious Bush-chip had something to do with it)... but the far left (and the far right in other cases, even though that isn't the issue now) has made a living on protecting the feelings of other nations and peoples while stomping on the average Americans imo

I am not a member of the far right and think that "sector" if you will is most def. out there, but so is the far left and Obama is becoming the poster boy

either way this is a philosophical difference here at the core and we sure as hell aren't going to solve that on a cfb website

 

[IrishAddiction]

hahaha wow LMI your so liberal its amusing. i was being sarcastic in saying the president saved the captain that was kidnapped by pirates. believe it or not, the navy seals were the ones to save the captain, not the president. any president with common sense should have immediately authorized the use of lethal force against those thugs, but you actually believe he was the one to save them. amazing.

the story is mute as of now. obamas a moron. vote Huckabee 2012.

 

[no.1IrishFan]

I totally understand your viewpoint, but given that we disagree on the fundamental premise of when life begins...we are at an impasse.But like I said, given all the divisions in Christianity, it's impossible to say that one branch is more right that the other in the public sense. People can say it and feel it, but it won't make it true.

I honestly dont know when life begins, some say at conception. Some say when there is a heartbeat and some say when it is born. To me none of these matter as far as my pro-life stance is concerned as a Christian. For me the issue of when it is technically a life is irrelevent. Its the waste of a God given gift. No matter what stage of life it may be in.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

the issue is that coming from a man who spews "idealism" and "tolerance" he sure is quick to stomp on peoples beliefs and force them to do what they view as damn-able... again, allowing is one thing, and is understandable when you have such philosophical differences... FORCING is something else and completely hypocritical coming from the party of "tolerance"

There is no way to make both sides happy, so tolerance is one thing...giving in is another.

*AND* it's seperation of church and state (Something the left wanted) that means seperation of church from the state and seperation of state from the church... if a church doesn't want to marry someone or perform abortions on philosophical/religious grounds then that should be their right to do so correct??? talk about having someone else's cake and eating it too

This is still not in question.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

hahaha wow LMI your so liberal its amusing. i was being sarcastic in saying the president saved the captain that was kidnapped by pirates. believe it or not, the navy seals were the ones to save the captain, not the president. any president with common sense should have immediately authorized the use of lethal force against those thugs, but you actually believe he was the one to save them. amazing.

What's liberal about pointing out that he made a good executive decision...one that Reagan's own political director compared to ... Reagan.

I never said Obama saved them. I said he got major Kudos from a man who is as deeply Republican as any human being can be. Clearly Rollins did not see this as a Common Sense decision...and he did time in the White House...he knows these are not easy calls.

The media never portrayed him as doing it, nor did he come out and have a press conference to pat himself on the back. He made a good call that was not clear cut. He took a big risk and it paid off.

 

[ACamp1900]

There is no way to make both sides happy, so tolerance is one thing...giving in is another.



This is still not in question.

WOW!... seriously?

1.) Church and State... Are you serious!?! Obama wants to force practices, within the church, that the church and it's followers feel are an affront to God... that very clearly obliterates the separation of church and state, and flies in the face of a founding premise of this country; that being religious freedom

2.) What’s wrong with people marrying whatever they want (Same sex, multiple people, goats...) at the justice of the peace, while not being recognized by the church and abortion being allowable to a certain, still philosophically debatable, point.... THAT would be tolerance... yet you call it "giving in"????... this is shocking to me

welcome to the new progressive era everyone...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

WOW!... seriously?

1.) Church and State... Are you serious!?! Obama wants to force practices, within the church, that the church and it's followers feel are an affront to God... that very clearly obliterates the separation of church and state, and flies in the face of a founding premise of this country; that being religious freedom

This is not true. It's a conspiracy theory so far. The same policies Obama is pursuing have been implemented in Maryland and what you are talking about NEVER CAME TO PASS.

2.) What’s wrong with people marrying whatever they want (Same sex, multiple people, goats...) at the justice of the peace, while not being recognized by the church

The government cannot force any church to recognize ANY marriage. I have no problem with gays getting married. Not sure where you were headed with this, I think I missed your argument.

and abortion being allowable to a certain, still philosophically debatable, point.... THAT would be tolerance... yet you call it "giving in"????... this is shocking to me

welcome to the new progressive era everyone...

What I am saying is that Obama is pursuing pro-choice policies in the interests of personal freedom. The opposite side considers it murder. There is no middle ground. He is forcing no one to give or receive abortions.

Not sure what you are looking for here on the "tolerance" front. His executive orders have been consistent with his ideas on personal freedom. So what do you want from him here in the name of "tolerance"?

 

[ACamp1900]

What I am saying is that Obama is pursuing pro-choice policies in the interests of personal freedom.

Public Funding for Abortion, Catholic Hospitals being forced to perform them... all things that Obama has publicly avocated and pushed for are personal freedoms...???

this is totally Obama leading the blind...

Don't give me Maryland... you Rescind Conscience Protection, the radical left (Maybe not Obama, but those in his corner) wage all out war on the Church and you know it

 

[ACamp1900]

The government cannot force any church to recognize ANY marriage. I have no problem with gays getting married. Not sure where you were headed with this, I think I missed your argument.

As long as Obama doesn't have his way you are absolutely correct...

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Public Funding for Abortion, Catholic Hospitals being forced to perform them... all things that Obama has publicly avocated and pushed for are personal freedoms...???

Hasn't happened and he did not push for them...just like in Maryland.

Don't give me Maryland... you Rescind Conscience Protection, the radical left (Maybe not Obama, but those in his corner) wage all out war on the Church and you know it

The radical left might like to, but they don't have anyone in power...so it's a non issue.

Just as the radical Right did not write in KKK initiatives into law when Bush was in power...I don't expect the radical left to get much attention either.

 

[ACamp1900]

Hasn't happened and he did not push for them...just like in Maryland.

man alive it seems like you ignore that which does not fit your argument...

1.) yes it has... In Mexico and in tax payer funded clinics all over select states
2.) Yes he has, multiple times
3.) I couldn't care less how ultra liberal policies go over in an ultra liberal state... that's like the far right talking up how well anti gun control policies work in Texas

The radical left might like to, but they don't have anyone in power...so it's a non issue.

Just as the radical Right did not write in KKK initiatives into law when Bush was in power...I don't expect the radical left to get much attention either.

LMFAO...

sorry LMI... you should know I have a ton of respect for you, but this is obviously a agree to disagree situation... I also feel stating the far left is to the anti church as the far right is to the KKK is a gross over reach on your part... but maybe that's jut me lol



I will say this, every time I see Obama speak I sit and try very hard to find something to like about him, it's just very frustrating that I haven't found it yet... for example, shaking hands with Chavez is NOT something that should be critized and I'm not blindly one way... ANY president should shake the hand of the average foreign leader if and when that first meet in person, but when he hands you a book bashing the nation you are a leader of, you say "I thought it was a nice gesture to give me that book." ??????? argh... whatever, everything the guy does pisses me off now and he really seems like such a figure head for nancy pelosi which is even worse... I always find myself wondering "Are you ever thinking about the Average American or is it always gonna be the other guy?"

but you are absloutely right when you say it is early and give it time... I'm tyring

 

[Junkhead]

I saw a sign in someones yard today that said, "thanks President Bush" lol

 

[ACamp1900]

lol... I liked the ones that said "Thanks to Obama "Change" is all I'll have left"

yeah the signs on both sides can be pretty funny if you don't let the meaning get to you too much