Stop the Insanity!!!!

[TDHeysus]

This is a very good example of why Charlie Weis needs to be fired.....

Saying Weis needs to be fired is irresponsible. its EASY to sit back and say Fire Him! its a knee-jerk reaction, and it is in line with what most of the media wants to happen. Shouldnt that be a red flag? does the media want whats good for ND? Hell no! The media wants ND to fail, ND is hated like the Yankees are hated. The fact you agree with the lynch-mob, I mean media, should make you stop a second and think. Remember this is same media that includes yahoos like MArk May, and includes USC alums - they want him fired too. Personally eveyone(ND ppl) that calls for Weis' head is doing ND a dis-service.

ND is in a better spot on all fronts since Holtz left, and ppl want to kill that momentum and start over again, I dont get it. Instead of easily sitting back, and going with the herd in calling for his head, why not offer a solution? Who is better for ND then Weis? I dont want to hear about any coach that is under contract with another team, no one wants to come to ND right now. Firing Weis, with no plan for another coach will do not an ounce of good. Its old way of thinking, rehashed thinking (fire the guy!). If Weis is fired at the end of this year, ND will be in the tank again for years to come. Our best bet is Weis, like it or not. I'm sticking with my guy, The Recruit Miser General.

ClausentoFloyd, I dont mean to go off on you, this is more so a culmination of alot of Weis hate I see on this board. I see alot of ppl calling for his head, with no thought whatsoever of a legitimate replacement, and dickhead down at florida is not a legitimate replacement, any coach currently under contract is not a legitimate replacement. if you havent noticed, coaches arent banging down the door to coach at ND.

Weis has turned around recruiting for ND on the national scene, by that alone he deserves more respect than I see him getting. Weis has pulled in more talent than Davie and Willingham combined. Yes, the team hit rock bottom in 07, but has painfully improved(albeit little by little) since then. I look at 07 as a purging year, all of the Davie, willngham BS had to be regurgitated(sp), the slate was wiped clean. Im not a rah-rah guy, but damn, why not get behind our guy and lets see him succeed. All of this lynch-mob BS isnt helping ND in ANY WAY.

Weis is an alum, he wants to be here, he has started a program here. Considering where ND was when he got here (no resemblence of a program, no identity), and where it is now(a budding program, pro-style offense), I think he has done a pretty damn good job, just not as fast as some ppl want it.

Weis needs 2 more years to see this thru, if he is fired before that, ND will be shooting themselves in the foot.....again

 

[phork]

Nice analysis. Unfortunately I don't agree with most of it. I was one of those people willing to give him another year to see what happens. In my estimation 11-1 with this schedule is doable. Anything less, and another 6-6 or 7-5 team then he is under achieving and someone needs to come in here to push it up to the next level.
Losing Weis will not kill this program or even take it down a notch or 2. There are plenty of other candidates out there, that don't match your criteria. IMO Brian Kelly is one of them and had Weis been fired last year I believe he would have been the next coach. I believe he found out that Weis was safe and then uttered the "I'm happy at Cincinnati !" I call BS. There are a lot of good coaches out there, just have to look.

 

[hughesnd22]

this might be a dumb question but why we got rid of willingham after three years and why do you think should weis get seven years if he cant win with his recruits against such a weak schedule like last years

 

[Bubba]

this might be a dumb question but why we got rid of willingham after three years and why do you think should weis get seven years if he cant win with his recruits against such a weak schedule like last years

Short answer, he killed our recruiting. He didn't want to work during the off season, he'd rather play golf. Look at what he did at UW. That's not enough evidence that Ty was a problem?

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I appreciate your passion, and we all want the program to move forward.

Yes, the man can recruit like crazy - and yes, what Weis does is a major improvement over the recruiting "efforts" of Tyrone. But those of us that can remove the emotion of the issue are able to see that the Weis regime has done an awful job of DEVELOPING players once they get on campus. Awful. Its not hyperbole.

I can't off the top of my head, really think of one player beyond Quinn and Smardjia that improved in a measurable way during the Weis era.

I agree, at this point, in March of 2009, calling for Weis' head is silly and a waste of time. Yes, is probably does a disservice to the program. But we need to be realistic, and that means if the Weis and staff are unable to show they can develop players (which should translate to wins against a pillow-soft schedule) they need to be shown the door at the end of the season. If this conversation is being had in October, then its no longer silly, nor a disservice - its an indictment of the Weis staff, one which probably means we need to find a more capable leader.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I think ND is going to commit damage next season. I find it hard to disagree with any of TDHeysus's comments.

ND wins many next year.

CW is safe for a good long time. At least for a couple of years...

Homeboy.

 

[NDinL.A.]

.

I can't off the top of my head, really think of one player beyond Quinn and Smardjia that improved in a measurable way during the Weis era.

I'm a big CW backer, have been from the beginning. But last year, after the Navy and Syracuse games, I couldn't even argue with anyone anymore. He deserved to be on the hot seat, no question. And he needs to produce this year, or he deserves to be fired.

But if you're gonna rip CW for not developing players, then you have to give him credit for who he has developed. You mentioned Quinn and Shark, and don't forget the one-time bust Rhema McKnight. Also, how can you not mention Golden Tate? Rudolph, by the end of the year, was not only a stud receiver but was also blocking much better. Clausen looks like he's turned the corner (time will tell though). Ethan Johnson was a stud by the end of the year! Guys have developed. But I will agree that we need to see much more development this year, which I think we will...

 

[nd1988]

Chuck has developed players.......I see some big strides this years but I feel Chuck's job has alot to do with what his QB or "QB's" can do..If the QB's fails; then he fails..It's that simple...

I like Chuck's "swagger"...He's a cocky guy leading the number 1 football program of all time..We need that...What we don't need is some guy who comes in mellow like Davie and Willing-loser did... Chuck is here to stay hopfully for the next 3 or 4 years...Come on people...Building a championship caliber team takes time....

People were betting that Chuck failed his first year at ND and look at what happened..We made it to a BCS game and I won a free case of beer....

 

[WabashFalcon]

I can't off the top of my head, really think of one player beyond Quinn and Smardjia that improved in a measurable way during the Weis era.

Landri. Laws. Zibby. Blanton. Walls. That's five and I just thought for all of six seconds.

 

[dyrtdogg]

I just thought for all of six seconds.

Then you just thought more than I will all day.

 

[notredomer23]

NDOM posting in 3...2...1...

I agree with you man because I know Weis is gonna win. These guys are just tools

 

[notredomer23]

Landri. Laws. Zibby. Blanton. Walls. That's five and I just thought for all of six seconds.

bruton. Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, Ethan Johnson, Brian Smith, Rasheon McNiel, Gary Gray, Robert Blanton, Kyle McCarthy.

 

[phork]

Yup, we're all tools. Everyone jumped on my after the SDSU game last year about how it was going to be a long season... People were siding with me by the end of the year.

 

[irish4ever]

The media wants ND to fail, ND is hated like the Yankees are hated.

Outside of dedicated Irish and Yankee fans, everyone else HATES these two teams (and some media groups). But to me, the media NEEDS them to succeed in order to "stir the pot" whenever they have success .... that's what sells in the media world.

 

[notredomer23]

Yup, we're all tools. Everyone jumped on my after the SDSU game last year about how it was going to be a long season... People were siding with me by the end of the year.

you do know I was being sarcastic right?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

You bastage. You you ICEHOLE! I thunk you was serious.


Bastage.

 

[dyrtdogg]

You bastage. You you ICEHOLE!

Not enough Johnny Dangerously references in the world today, if you ask me.

 

[NDFan537]

I can't off the top of my head, really think of one player beyond Quinn and Smardjia that improved in a measurable way during the Weis era.

Shamrock you had a very well written and thought out post. I liked it a lot and agree with most of it. If we do not play in a BCS game (which we will) then yes CW needs to go at the end of the '09 season. It is a soft schedule and we better win no less than 10 of those games. I think it is more then feasible to win 12 and play for a title next Jan.(go ahead and rip me, but I just mean if the breaks go our way we could run the table)

The one thing I am tired of hearing is Charlie can't develop talent. I hear it from everyone I know that is not an ND fan, and now I have to hear it here too. It is the most insanely untrue statement I have ever heard. Look people what do you want God? Let there be light, and the world was bright. Give me a break, talent development takes time no matter where you are. Jimmy Clausen is a prime example, when he got here he didn't even know what it meant to check down. Now sometimes he checks down a little too much, but he was a So. He improved vastly from year one to two, and I got a sneaky suspicion he is going to be electric year 3. Look at Golden he was a running back now he is close to an NFL caliber receiver.

I would say the team was much better in '08 than '07 and the only way that that is possible is if the team had been developed.

 

[Riddickulous]

He can't develop talent. The prime example: Sam Young. Someone so highly rated should be dominating by now, especially after starting for three years. 230 pound linebackers shed his blocks like cats shed their fur.

 

[NDinL.A.]

He can't develop talent. The prime example: Sam Young. Someone so highly rated should be dominating by now, especially after starting for three years. 230 pound linebackers shed his blocks like cats shed their fur.

OK, so what do you say about Golden Tate. He was RB in h.s. who could only run one route his freshman year. The next year he's one of the best receivers in the country. If you're going to blame him for Sam Young, then you have credit him for G-Money. It can't be selective. For every Young, there's a Tate. There's also Rudolph, Jimmy Clausen, Brady Quinn, the Shark (who was NOWHERE to be found under Golfingham), Stovall, Blanton, B. Smith, D. Walls, etc.

I don't think he'd been great at it the past 2 years, but 2 blanketly (is that a word?) say that he can't develop talent is wrong. There are a ton of guys we can throw out there that can prove you wrong...

 

[NDFan537]

NDinLA as usual I agree wholeheartedly with you. There are too many developed players to even mention. Not just that but S Young is not really Charlies responsibility solely, he was hurt a lot by poor line coaches and we seem to have remedied that problem.

 

[allnd1962]

Saying Weis needs to be fired is irresponsible. its EASY to sit back and say Fire Him! its a knee-jerk reaction, and it is in line with what most of the media wants to happen. Shouldnt that be a red flag? does the media want whats good for ND? Hell no! The media wants ND to fail, ND is hated like the Yankees are hated. The fact you agree with the lynch-mob, I mean media, should make you stop a second and think. Remember this is same media that includes yahoos like MArk May, and includes USC alums - they want him fired too. Personally eveyone(ND ppl) that calls for Weis' head is doing ND a dis-service.

ND is in a better spot on all fronts since Holtz left, and ppl want to kill that momentum and start over again, I dont get it. Instead of easily sitting back, and going with the herd in calling for his head, why not offer a solution? Who is better for ND then Weis? I dont want to hear about any coach that is under contract with another team, no one wants to come to ND right now. Firing Weis, with no plan for another coach will do not an ounce of good. Its old way of thinking, rehashed thinking (fire the guy!). If Weis is fired at the end of this year, ND will be in the tank again for years to come. Our best bet is Weis, like it or not. I'm sticking with my guy, The Recruit Miser General.

ClausentoFloyd, I dont mean to go off on you, this is more so a culmination of alot of Weis hate I see on this board. I see alot of ppl calling for his head, with no thought whatsoever of a legitimate replacement, and dickhead down at florida is not a legitimate replacement, any coach currently under contract is not a legitimate replacement. if you havent noticed, coaches arent banging down the door to coach at ND.

Weis has turned around recruiting for ND on the national scene, by that alone he deserves more respect than I see him getting. Weis has pulled in more talent than Davie and Willingham combined. Yes, the team hit rock bottom in 07, but has painfully improved(albeit little by little) since then. I look at 07 as a purging year, all of the Davie, willngham BS had to be regurgitated(sp), the slate was wiped clean. Im not a rah-rah guy, but damn, why not get behind our guy and lets see him succeed. All of this lynch-mob BS isnt helping ND in ANY WAY.

Weis is an alum, he wants to be here, he has started a program here. Considering where ND was when he got here (no resemblence of a program, no identity), and where it is now(a budding program, pro-style offense), I think he has done a pretty damn good job, just not as fast as some ppl want it.

Weis needs 2 more years to see this thru, if he is fired before that, ND will be shooting themselves in the foot.....again

TDHeysus I couldn't have said it better. I think in a few years the haters will be big fans of Charlie's. GO IRISH work hard and believe in yourselves and the University.

 

[allnd1962]

this might be a dumb question but why we got rid of willingham after three years and why do you think should weis get seven years if he cant win with his recruits against such a weak schedule like last years

1. Because Willingham wouldn't recruit. and 2. Charlie will win with these recruits!

 

[allnd1962]

He can't develop talent. The prime example: Sam Young. Someone so highly rated should be dominating by now, especially after starting for three years. 230 pound linebackers shed his blocks like cats shed their fur.

I think Charlie's biggest problem with Young was his loyalty to his coaching staff and by the looks of the videos going around he has hired a good one in Verraducci. But even if Sam Young doesn't improve this year every school has big time recruits that don't pan out. I just wonder if Willingham had recruited lineman better so Young would not have had to play his freshmen year how good he actually would have been.........I'm sure we all like to have him back for a fifth year in 2010!

 

[NDinL.A.]

TDHeysus I couldn't have said it better. I think in a few years the haters will be big fans of Charlie's. GO IRISH work hard and believe in yourselves and the University.

One of my closest fans is a huge USC fan. I had him and his wife over for dinner last night, and of course he started in on CW. His exact words were: What has Charlie Wies done? When I came back with "2 BCS bowls", all he could say was "yeah, but, um, yeah, but, he sucks!" Nice comeback. Then I went into the whole JC and Manti and Wood thing, and even he begrudgingly said the man can recruit.

We all know that this is the year that CW has to put up or shut up. Recruiting can only get you so far (see: Ron Crook, errr, Zook, Florida). The team needs to produce on the field. If CW can get his boys to produce W's, then he'll be at ND for a loooooong time. Because when it comes to recruiting, he's golden. I really put him on par w/ Urban and the Poodle. To bring in the recruits that he has at a place with restrictions like ND, is amazing. Now he needs produce on the field. There should be a moratorium on all CW being fired talk until at least the Nevada game. If we suck there and lose, then go ahead and discuss it. Until then, let's back the man and the boys with everything we've got...

 

[Riddickulous]

I must admit, I believed in Charlie Weis after his first season. Everyone did. I still believed in him after the 2006 season. After 2007, I still clung to the dogged belief that Charlie Weis was a good coach. After 2008, I was done believing.

The doubt added up after each terrible loss: Michigan 2006/2007, USC 2006/2007/2008, LSU, Georgia Tech, Penn State, Navy, Air Force, North Carolina, Pitt, Boston College, Syracuse.

I am finished with Charlie Weis. I will never believe in him until he WINS a BCS bowl.

 

[WabashFalcon]

You're putting the "Bush Push" under a terrible loss? That wasn't him. That was the D-Cordy calling Man-to-Man on a 4th and 11 and watching our boy just get freaking SMOKED.


(Fuck that makes me mad.... really. Fucking. Mad).

 

[Riddickulous]

The Bush Push was 2005.

 

[GoldenDomer21]

Last year was not the year to fire CW.

Everyone is expecting the unexpected. Look, the first tow years he coached it wasn't even his guys who were playing. It was Ty's. In order to compete the way we did we had to play the first string ALL game. None of the new guys saw any playing time, Ever!

07 sucked because CW didn't have Quinn and Co to lean on. He was forced to play the guys who had the luxury of riding the bench while Quinn and Co went out and got it done for 4 quarters of EVERY game.

08 was marginal because, well, inexperience. What do you expect? Most players don't have break out seasons in their sophmore year. ND is not the exception. They won more games, they won a bowl, and they gained expierence. By the end of the season, the bowl game, ND and Wies were producing like we all expect.

Next year is the year. Anything less than a top 10 finish should spell doom for Weis. He has consistently had top recruiting programs. We should expect to be among the top programs of the country for many years to come.

Anything less than the VAST MAJORITY of games being played like the Hawaii bowl is unacceptable. ND should be putting up 42+ points on at least 8 of 09's scheduled teams. Becuase lets face it. 09 is an easy season, there are a lot of Hawaii type teams to play.

What people forget is that the transition years for CW were not the first two years when Quinn and Co kicked ass. The transition years were 07 and 08. So this is the year we should all be expecting the world from our Irish, and CW.

Mark my words. We win 10 games this season and his job security will be a mut point. He'll be the ND messiah again.

 

[ACamp1900]

One of my closest fans is a huge USC fan. I had him and his wife over for dinner last night,

I once had a USC fan in my house also... but he took off pretty quick after the brinks security alarm went off