The Flip Side of Firing Charlie

[NDinL.A.]

Link Below.

I'm not here to start yet another thread of why Charlie Weis should or should not be fired. I just want to say the flip side of when/if he gets fired. We can and most likely will lose recruits. If you are FOR firing Weis (and it's hard to argue against you - see: Syracuse game), you have to be real with yourself and accept that unless we get a huge name coach like Satan or Meyer (ain't gonna happen, sorry), we are very likely going to take several steps backward, again. If you want Charlie gone, and you are cool with going backwards in order to go forwards because you think he is that pathetic, then personally I won't even argue with you. (even though I'm on record as saying to give him another year)

Anyways, it's been brought up, but here is an article about how a recruit left a school because the previous coach was fired. The recruit: USC's Brian Cushing, currently a top draft prospect and absolute stud for $C. The school he left: Notre Dame. A quote from the article:

Out of high school, Cushing was all but signed, sealed and delivered to join the Fighting Irish in South Bend, Ind. But when coach Tyrone Willingham and his staff were fired, the Irish-Catholic boy from New Jersey turned his attention west.

Personally I thank God Ty Golfingham was fired. But we did lose a great recruit. And my point is that if Weis is gone, it's very possible we could be saying bye-bye to Wood, Shaq, Watt and/or others. It's a real possibility.

Brian Cushing's road to USC went through South Bend - Los Angeles Times

 

[Bubba]

Playing the devil's advocate, what about the recruits who are now HS juniors or sophomores that are not willing to consider ND because of Weis? I too, am in favor of Weis remaining for one more year....especially if there is not a real plan in place to bring in the right replacement. But, losing a recruit or two this year can't make up for what we will lose if Weis continues on the downward spiral.

 

[wahoo]

We aren't wiining now with these blue-chippers. If ND hires a competent coach the recuits will come

 

[nd911]

If Urban Meyer was to become the coach, I think there's a good chance Cierre Wood and Shaquelle Evans would stay committed to ND.

 

[Irishlew]

If Urban Meyer was to become the coach, I think there's a good chance Cierre Wood and Shaquelle Evans would stay committed to ND.

why do people keep bringing up Urban Meyer? He ain't coming here, why on earth would he?

 

[Timugen]

why do people keep bringing up Urban Meyer? He ain't coming here, why on earth would he?

Oh, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him coming here. It just won't be in the short term.

The only way I see him not coming here eventually is if we get a coach that stays put here for about 10 years. Even then, it would come down to how long Meyer wants to continue to coach and the timing and circumstances of the transition.

Notre Dame, Meyer seem like perfect fit | floridatoday.com | FLORIDA TODAY

 

[NDinL.A.]

Playing the devil's advocate, what about the recruits who are now HS juniors or sophomores that are not willing to consider ND because of Weis? I too, am in favor of Weis remaining for one more year....especially if there is not a real plan in place to bring in the right replacement. But, losing a recruit or two this year can't make up for what we will lose if Weis continues on the downward spiral.

Excellent point. Like I said, take some steps back (recruiting, new systems) to take steps forward. Just gotta be willing to do it and be patient...

 

[Ricochet]

Firing Weis will cause some recruits to leave but some will stay regardless and others will come aboard with a new head coach.

The problem as I've stated elsewhere is that keeping him around another year is that they will know he's a lame duck coach and that some recruits in this class will move on because they have no confidence that he will be around after the 2009 season. So keeping him for 1 more season is about the worst thing that can happen because not only will it hurt this class but next years as well.

So he's got to go now or be guaranteed that he's at the very least got 2 years to make them beyond just being good but contenders to win it all.

So the real question is it worth the risk to keep Weis beyond this season? Because as I've said the bleeding can stop now by firing him and it only effecting 1 recruiting class.

All I know is that ND needs to spend whatever to get the best coach they can and if they need to make them the highest paid coach then so be it but what they can't do IMO is take a risk on someone who's just a great coach they need someone who's also an awesome recruiter.

Weis was a great recruiter especially on the offensive side of the ball so a turn around should be pretty quick and that's why I think Weis needs to go is because this offense should be scoring at a high level.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Oh, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of him coming here. It just won't be in the short term.

The only way I see him not coming here eventually is if we get a coach that stays put here for about 10 years. Even then, it would come down to how long Meyer wants to continue to coach and the timing and circumstances of the transition.

Notre Dame, Meyer seem like perfect fit | floridatoday.com | FLORIDA TODAY

If Meyer came to ND, I would never donate another dollar.

 

[WaveDomer]

I'm more inclined to give Weis another year, at this point. However, I don't think the recruit argument is really the best one to make. I think that's out of anyone's hands. You have no idea how someone is going to react to a decision. And you can't make a decision based on how someone else may react or not react. Hypothetically, Weis stays and ND wins 2 games next year. At the same time he has the number #1 recruiting class. Do you still wait?

Of course you do the best you can to retain players and recruits, but I don't think the decision should hinge on that factor.

 

[ARALOU]

To hell with the "blue chip" recruit! How many did we win with in the past? Give me a guy that has had to bust his ass his whole life (and is 6'4" and weighs 245) and I will take 9 of those guys and put an ass kicking team on the field. Of course they have got have a 3.0 GPA and a 28 ACT score. I guess.

My point is, the one that works the hardest and wants it most, gets it. I remember when "ALL" the Irish players said that Notre Dame was the only place they would even consider.

 

[domerfreak]

this is NOTRE FREAKIN DAME!!!! It has never been a secret you no win you gone. Im not even asking for multiple championships (one would be nice) but how about a well rounded football team???

Seems to me a winning coach and staff could provide that. There are several schools out there winning with less talent and resources.

if they do can him, i say give the ol ball coach spurrier, a good look. hes a proven COLLEGE coach who can recruit and with our current roster his system isnt a bad fit.
not trashin the gamecocks, but probably could get him in southbend for a fair price for both parties.

for gods sake the man won a duke!!!!
sec football in southbend????

 

[Timugen]

If Meyer came to ND, I would never donate another dollar.

Well, then it's a good thing you're not the one in charge of hiring the head coach of the football program.

 

[NDinL.A.]

this is NOTRE FREAKIN DAME!!!! It has never been a secret you no win you gone. Im not even asking for multiple championships (one would be nice) but how about a well rounded football team???

Seems to me a winning coach and staff could provide that. There are several schools out there winning with less talent and resources.

if they do can him, i say give the ol ball coach spurrier, a good look. hes a proven COLLEGE coach who can recruit and with our current roster his system isnt a bad fit.
not trashin the gamecocks, but probably could get him in southbend for a fair price for both parties.

for gods sake the man won a duke!!!!
sec football in southbend????

Might as well ask for Vince Lombardi. Spurrier ain't coming!!!!! He's not even on our radar!

As for Meyer, do you really think he's gonna leave Florida???? He's in the hunt for NC's every year, and he gets to recruit ANYBODY he wants! Did you guys forget that he just spurned us just 3 1/2 years ago???? HE'S THE REASON WE LET GO OF TY GOLFINGHAM SO EARLY! Do you really want to go through that nightmare again?

Spurrier
Meyer
Stoops

KEEP DREAMING!!!

 

[The Polish Irishman]

Please look at the 2006 Class and the lack of development. CW is a great recruiter, he just lacks in developing the talent he has.

 

[TinyT]

I would think that the development aspect would be more the immediate responsibility of position coaches. Sure, ultimate responsibility falls on Weis's shoulders and he may want to look into new staff members, but I don't think a man who never played football is going to develop players in the first place. Change some position coaches or coordinators and continue to make improvements. The school has the facilities, the resources and now some of the players. Now it is time to restructure the staff and teach these kids to play the game.

 

[domerfreak]

Might as well ask for Vince Lombardi. Spurrier ain't coming!!!!! He's not even on our radar!

Other than the golf courses not to Spurrier's standerds. I dont think it would be that diffucult to land him. the adminastration (if they fire weis after the year) will have to pony up the money for a proven head coach. Im not sure what is in his contract is at sc, but imo i would think nd could afford him without tapping the well.

I dunno just a thought if it does go further south for weis at the end of the year. I dont want another panic hire or unproven hc. And im not so sure nd is the place for young coach on the rise.

Might as well ask for Vince Lombardi.
I thought since spurrier is still the one breathing between the two. it seemed more realistic to me.

 

[edcubby]

Please, everyone is talking crazy. While the Syracuse loss was horrendous it should not be Weis's Waterloo.

During that game 11 TRUE Sophomores played and 6 TRUE Freshmen. NOBODY this side of Temple has had to due that... and that is the last time I will ever mention Temple and the Irish in the same breathe.

Charlie has not forgotten football and is still an exceptional coach he just needs these kids to develop and grow...which they will by next year. Next year there will be 3...3 OUTSTANDING recruiting classes who will provide depth and the number of Freshmen who play will drop!!!

As far as development goes...look how Quinn and company flourished under Weis. Just watch how Clausen, Tate, and Floyd will grow .

 

[Irish52]

You wouldn't have to donate. Meyer would guarantee at least $5-10 million per year with bowl games, wins and merchandise sales. He is revered in Florida...and, to my knowledge, has never spoken a harsh word against Notre Dame.

 

[OCIrish]

Might as well ask for Vince Lombardi. Spurrier ain't coming!!!!! He's not even on our radar!

Other than the golf courses not to Spurrier's standerds. I dont think it would be that diffucult to land him. the adminastration (if they fire weis after the year) will have to pony up the money for a proven head coach. Im not sure what is in his contract is at sc, but imo i would think nd could afford him without tapping the well.

I dunno just a thought if it does go further south for weis at the end of the year. I dont want another panic hire or unproven hc. And im not so sure nd is the place for young coach on the rise.

Might as well ask for Vince Lombardi.
I thought since spurrier is still the one breathing between the two. it seemed more realistic to me.

OK, who let the dumbass in? Are you really that stupid or did you get that way with age? In case you hadn't noticed, you can't play golf year' round in South Bend, not to mention, on top of that, Spurrier hates to recruit. Do you even understand what that means? CW has to bust his ass to get the type of talent he has gotten, kids don't flock to ND like they did in years past. Southern Cal, Florida, and Texas have got 5* recruits in their backyards, ND does not.

Not coming for dinner:
Stoops
Spurrier
Poodle
Meyer
and anyone with any common sense or a heartbeat!

 

[domerfreak]

OK, who let the dumbass in?

who ever said he was playing golf year round? So quick to call people names. And all i said was give hime a look, never said sell the farm to get him. I promise you if the price is right any coach will come.


Are you really that stupid or did you get that way with age?

Im not the one insulting people in message rooms for speaking their opion.

CW has to bust his ass to get the type of talent he has gotten, kids don't flock to ND like they did in years past.

then he had better start busting ass to get some on feild results. He can have all the talent in the world thats great. Takes more than talent to win games. But a smart ass like yourself knows that, right?

Southern Cal, Florida, and Texas have got 5* recruits in their backyards, ND does not.

good for those schools and their 5* recruits. If you can coach talent 3 and 4 * should be enough to be competive in games.

Street lights are on and its dinner time.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

Well, then it's a good thing you're not the one in charge of hiring the head coach of the football program.

Actually no...ND does not want a guy like Meyer. He lets his kids get away with disciplinary issues that would not be allowed at ND. His ideas on academic standards do NOT mesh with ND's. And he lies on the recruiting trail.

None of those things is acceptible for an ND coach.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

You wouldn't have to donate. Meyer would guarantee at least $5-10 million per year with bowl games, wins and merchandise sales. He is revered in Florida...and, to my knowledge, has never spoken a harsh word against Notre Dame.

I agree he would bring more money than *I* will donate...but there are other alums who would be just as unhappy. And unhappy alums are death for ND.

What has he said about ND? Plenty. You obviously have not followed his recruiting tactics.

Also, he pushed for JUCOs during his discussions with ND. ANYONE who pushes for JUCOs does NOT understand ND and is the wrong man for the job.

 

[kicker20]

A former players idea

A former players idea

Being a former ND player from 1995-1998. My name is Kevin Kopka, and I was a kicker for Coach Holtz and Davie. The idea that this is an easy fix such as changing a Coach will heal our problems is foolish. When Holtz left, I had mixed feelings. Most players, including me were happy with the idea of playing for another Coach, especially Davie, who we new as a person and a Coach. We had faith that if we were treated like the men we were, we would play like men. I personally felt that in college, you need a coach who can be open enough to deal with men 18-23 and the new issues and trials we were all going through. Each of the players entered Notre Dame with a different idea of how our life's would change, but non of the freshman can imagine the rigors of the academic schedule and football duties required to be successful. The fans, alumni, and players all have different ideas or notions of success. Don't be lead astray, Coach Weis is a Great Coach, and the best prospect for this team. Maybe If we got Coach Meyer and the Gators got Coach Weis, they may have won 2-3 national titles with those speed players. If we lose Coach Weis, we will fail as a team as well as a University.

 

[03euroSVT]

Being a former ND player from 1995-1998. My name is Kevin Kopka, and I was a kicker for Coach Holtz and Davie. The idea that this is an easy fix such as changing a Coach will heal our problems is foolish. When Holtz left, I had mixed feelings. Most players, including me were happy with the idea of playing for another Coach, especially Davie, who we new as a person and a Coach. We had faith that if we were treated like the men we were, we would play like men. I personally felt that in college, you need a coach who can be open enough to deal with men 18-23 and the new issues and trials we were all going through. Each of the players entered Notre Dame with a different idea of how our life's would change, but non of the freshman can imagine the rigors of the academic schedule and football duties required to be successful. The fans, alumni, and players all have different ideas or notions of success. Don't be lead astray, Coach Weis is a Great Coach, and the best prospect for this team. Maybe If we got Coach Meyer and the Gators got Coach Weis, they may have won 2-3 national titles with those speed players. If we lose Coach Weis, we will fail as a team as well as a University.

Thanks for posting you views on this. Not everyone has gone through a coaching change so most don't understand what it does to the emotion of the team. I am included in the list of not knowing.

I really don't see how we can continue doing the same thing we have done over the past 12 years. Charlie Weis should be here next year but I also can't defend him from those calling for his head. Should ND fire Weis, they sure as hell better have someone lined up or as Kicker20 said the team and University will fail again.

I do want to see changes with a lot of the assistant coaches along with some of the schemes we use. It seems somewhere fundamentals of football are not being picked up as quickly. There are no excuses for this so with that being said, Latina and Powlus are on the top of my list of those that need to go. Yes this team is young but that excuse doesn't cut it for me. Charlie Weis has shown that he is willing to make changes and I believe he will continue doing so. Hopefully Charlie Weis assemble some great assistants and great football minds to replace those that aren't cutting it. It appears Weis has the ability to become a great coach or at least I hope he does.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Being a former ND player ....

Thanks for the insight.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

When Holtz left, I had mixed feelings. Most players, including me were happy with the idea of playing for another Coach, especially Davie, who we new as a person and a Coach.

I went to school with a couple players and neither of them were upset when Holtz left and Davie came in. They were not bubblingly happy or anything like that, but I remember one of them saying that "It was time for Coach Holtz to leave."

I know that Holtz's wife was terribly ill at the time and he looked tired so often.

I have told people about this over the years and they never believe me...

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I went to school with a couple players and neither of them were upset when Holtz left and Davie came in. They were not bubblingly happy or anything like that, but I remember one of them saying that "It was time for Coach Holtz to leave."

I know that Holtz's wife was terribly ill at the time and he looked tired so often.

I have told people about this over the years and they never believe me...

Life keeps going and winners keep attacking. Maybe sometimes things need to move on, and maybe truth is relative.

Maybe I should quit asking AFLAC geese out on dates.

They get annoying.

 

[OCIrish]

OK, who let the dumbass in?

who ever said he was playing golf year round? So quick to call people names. And all i said was give hime a look, never said sell the farm to get him. I promise you if the price is right any coach will come.


Are you really that stupid or did you get that way with age?

Im not the one insulting people in message rooms for speaking their opion.

CW has to bust his ass to get the type of talent he has gotten, kids don't flock to ND like they did in years past.

then he had better start busting ass to get some on feild results. He can have all the talent in the world thats great. Takes more than talent to win games. But a smart ass like yourself knows that, right?

Southern Cal, Florida, and Texas have got 5* recruits in their backyards, ND does not.

good for those schools and their 5* recruits. If you can coach talent 3 and 4 * should be enough to be competive in games.

Street lights are on and its dinner time.

Yeah, Steve likes to play golf as much as Tiger, or didn't you know that? You're not much of a college football fan if you didn't. So, if you didn't know that, then you're stupid, hence, were you born that way, or did you get that way with age?

As for recruiting, again, Steve likes to play golf, not recruit. Does that sound like anyone? Ty, perhaps? Hence, who let the dumbass in?

As for being competitive with 3 and 4* recruits, I'm not satisfied with competitive, if you are then you need to find a new hobby. I'm interested in winnning, get a clue. We're not going to win without great talent.

Yeah, street lights are on, and I'm spanking you're mom.

 

[domerfreak]

Yeah, Steve likes to play golf as much as Tiger, or didn't you know that? You're not much of a college football fan if you didn't. So, if you didn't know that, then you're stupid, hence, were you born that way, or did you get that way with age?

As for recruiting, again, Steve likes to play golf, not recruit. Does that sound like anyone? Ty, perhaps? Hence, who let the dumbass in?

As for being competitive with 3 and 4* recruits, I'm not satisfied with competitive, if you are then you need to find a new hobby. I'm interested in winnning, get a clue. We're not going to win without great talent.

Yeah, street lights are on, and I'm spanking you're mom.

think my first comment had to do with spurrier liking his golf. Good I hope him and tiger play golf together. That doesnt change the fact spurrier can coach football. And you question my fanhood.

i never claimed spurrier could recruit, only that he could devlop talent. And im positive spurrier could out coach, recruit ty blindfolded ask any UW fan.

Being a competive football team would be a lot better than the current state of this team on the feild. Dont get me wrong i want a wining team as well but its gotta start somewhere. Look at what being greedy has gotten us.

Again i didnt speak my opinion to spark a fight. All i ever said "if they do can weis, why not give spurrier a LOOK". You tell me to get a clue, did your parents not like you or are they brother and sister??? Picking fights on a message board because you dont agree.

Spanking my mom, good one didnt see that one coming. Have you even started purbity yet?? Go away before I push you over and take your lunch money.