Ragone out for season

[Golden Domer93]

socaldomer, we will be o.k. with Yeatman and Rudolph. Trust Rudolph can be an all-american type TE BUT yes now we do lack depth unless Fauria emerges early.

 

[YouCantCoachThat]

serious depth? based on a top 20 freshman prospect? you guys must have forgotten how great the first year freshman played last year.

Yes. Serious depth.

Just because most of our rookies underwhelmed last season, doesn't mean having one of the best prospects in all of college football, doesn't add depth to the position he plays at.

 

[Golden Domer93]

Exactly BUT the talent should still be there with Yeatman and Rudolph to have success at the position. I am trying to stay positive.

 

[SoCalDomer]

You guys are acting like Rudolph can't catch/run. Just because he wasn't a speedburner like Ragone doesn't mean he doesn't have playmaking potential.

no one is saying that. he's a freshman and many of you are acting like he's Ragone's equal. two injuries to the 4 remaining TEs and we can't even run a 3 TE set. that's not depth.

EDIT: sorry for all the exclamation points. i'm calm now.

A year most prognosticators are pegging us as NC contenders.

I've bit my tongue on this long enough. Which prognosticators are those? the only ones I hear saying that are ND fans on web boards. I haven't heard or read a single reputable college football writer publicly saying ND as a NC contender in 2009.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Yes. Serious depth.

Just because most of our rookies underwhelmed last season, doesn't mean having one of the best prospects in all of college football, doesn't add depth to the position he plays at.

4 players, none of which have more than a few minutes of experience at TE, is not serious depth.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

I agree So Cal, but I think we will be okay

 

[Golden Domer93]

socal brings up some good points. Ragone was gonna be a stud this season. I wish him a quick recovery.

 

[YouCantCoachThat]

Why wouldn't ND be a NC contender in 2009. Weiss' talented recruiting classes will be matured; there's 4 or 5 star prospects at every position with experience, and an A-1 coaching staff.

It's not hard to make that assumption.

Rudolph is a top overall prospect. He provides depth to a position where ND is loaded with athletes. Ragone's loss will be missed, but there are very good athletes to fill the void.

 

[SoCalDomer]

Why wouldn't ND be a NC contender in 2009. Weiss' talented recruiting classes will be matured; there's 4 or 5 star prospects at every position with experience, and an A-1 coaching staff.

Not my question. you said "most of the prognosticators" are picking ND as a NC contender. I asked which ones.

It's not hard to come to that assumption.

I think you just proved my point there. The only people saying this are ND web board fans.

Rudolph is a top overall prospect. He provides depth to a position where ND is loaded with athletes. Ragone's loss will be missed, but there are very good replacements to fill the void

Yes, Rudolph is a good prospect. But he hasn't played a single down of college football yet. If you read all the reports of the freshman players and how much they struggled catching up to the pace of the college game last year, you would understand where I'm coming from.

To me, depth is not the same as talent or potential. whether the TEs ND has are good is not something i'm arguing. Depth is 6 players, not 4 players, and those 6 should be spread out over the 4 classes.

Good depth means the experience and talent is spread over the classes evenly, not bottom loaded with the soph and freshman classes. we have almost zero experience and no upperclass talent, because there are no upper classmen.

 

[YouCantCoachThat]

I think i'm not making the distinction clear between: It was a position of "serious depth", but now that Ragone is injured, it isn't deep anymore. But since it was a position of serious depth, we could afford an injury to the position and still be ok, given the amount of well regarded players we have at the position.

 

[SoCalDomer]

I think i'm not making the distinction clear between: It was a position of "serious depth", but now that Ragone is injured, it isn't deep anymore. But since it was a position of serious depth, we could afford an injury to the position and still be ok, given the amount of well regarded players we have at the position.

ok, now i understand what you're saying. i still disagree that we could afford to lose someone. but i understand what you're saying.

 

[YouCantCoachThat]

Not my question. you said "most of the prognosticators" are picking ND as a NC contender. I asked which ones.



I think you just proved my point there. The only people saying this are ND web board fans.



Yes, Rudolph is a good prospect. But he hasn't played a single down of college football yet. If you read all the reports of the freshman players and how much they struggled catching up to the pace of the college game last year, you would understand where I'm coming from.

You seem to misunderstand the term depth. Depth is not the same as talent or potential. whether the TEs ND has are good is not something i'm arguing. Depth is 6 players, not 4 players, and those 6 should be spread out over the 4 classes.

Good depth means the experience and talent is spread over the classes evenly, not bottom loaded with the soph and freshman classes. we have almost zero experience and no upperclass talent, because there are no upper classmen.

Given the intellect, and insight provided (even at "fan boards" like this), and around the blogosphere, I put a lot of credibility on user generated content; sometimes more so than what you would call a "reputable writer"

Just because a lot of user generated content is easily accessible doesn't mean people's opinion should be devalued as garden-variety "fan board" schlep. I think I'm capable of distinguishing between bias fan-boy opinions, and good logical assumptions based on fact and reason.

Any team hauling in talent the way ND has over the last 4 seasons, with the type of track record Weiss/Tenuta/Latina/Brown have, would be NC contenders in my eyes.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Given the intellect, and insight provided (even at "fan boards" like this), and around the blogosphere, I put a lot of credibility on user generated content; sometimes more so than what you would call a "reputable writer"

Just because a lot of user generated content is easily accessible doesn't mean people's opinion should be devalued as garden-variety "fan board" schlep. I think I'm capable of distinguishing between bias fan-boy opinions, and good logical assumptions based on fact and reason.

Any team hauling in talent the way ND has over the last 4 seasons, with the type of track record Weiss/Tenuta/Latina/Brown have, would be NC contenders in my eyes.

Actually, it's Weis...but do carry on...

 

[Junkhead]

I would say TE depth is razor thin now. Playing Freshman should be a last resort. Even with a future stud in Kyle R., I'd have been nice to have him learn in garbage time this season. It sucks will Walls out and Ragone injured. I just want the damn season to start before anything else happens!

 

[SoCalDomer]

Given the intellect, and insight provided (even at "fan boards" like this), and around the blogosphere, I'd put a lot of credibility on user driven content; sometimes more so than what you would call a "reputable college writer"

Just because a lot of user driven content is easily accessible doesn't mean people's opinion should be devalued as garden-variety "fan board" schlep. I think I'm capable of distinguishing between bias fan-boy opinions, and good logical assumptions based on fact and reason.

Any team hauling in talent the way ND has over the last 4 seasons, with the type of track record Weiss/Tenuta/Latina/Brown have, would be NC contenders in my eyes.

I browse a lot of blogs and read a lot of user generated content (its a web 2.0 world) if I didn't value the content I read as credible information, than why would I be posting here?

first, by reputable, I meant objective and non-biased; not ncessarily a professional writer.

second, you seem to again be going to the merit of the argument, not who is saying it. if you agree with me that it is simply ND fans, then we've got no further argument.

now, as to whether they are right, i disagree as of this point in time. FACT, we came off a 3-9 season where the only wins were against UCLA (who lost their #1 and #2 QBs and had to play a redshirt freshman), Stanford (who won 4 games last year) and Duke (who won 1 game last year, and approx 4 over the last 3 years). While that remains the last product put on the field by ND football, I'm saying there's no way they play for NC in 2009.

those are the facts. you can talk potential all day long. you can make arguments based on recruiting until you're blue in the face. but they are arguments. IMO they are very weak arguments considering the team won 3 games and lost 9 last year. when/if that changes this year, then those arguments become objectively more reasonable.

lastly, go back and read what the same prognosticators you're referring to were saying about 2007. how many of them were predicting a 3-9 season where the offense came in nearly last in all offensive categories? my point is, a fan bases' bias wouldn't allow it, and it's the same fan bases' bias to give too much future credit to a 3-9 team.

 

[Freeman Ara]

Mike was the faster and better route runner compared to Yeatman, who has better blocking skills. so, regardless of Ragone's size, he is the kind of TE who is too fast for LB's, and too big for safeties. this is a big loss.

As someone else stated, Rudolph and Ragone have similar skill sets, and Rudolph was already pushing for playing time. I just don't think the drop off physically is all that great. As far as depth, you now have Yeatman, Rudolph, Schmidt, and Fauria. Not to bad.

 

[Junkhead]

As someone else stated, Rudolph and Ragone have similar skill sets, and Rudolph was already pushing for playing time. I just don't think the drop off physically is all that great. As far as depth, you now have Yeatman, Rudolph, Schmidt, and Fauria. Not to bad.

Except that 3 of those guys have never played TE in college and probably aren't ready to dive into the whole playbook. Blocking is often lacking in young TE's but hopefully Yeatman can take care of that.

 

[Golden Domer93]

I think the biggest surprise might be Fauria.

 

[Junkhead]

I think the biggest surprise might be Fauria.

You don't hear much about him, he's been overshadowed by Rudolph, probably unfairly. I remember wondering if we really needed 2 TE is the class. Now with Ragone out, Rueland transferred, etc, its a good thing we did take both!

 

[Freeman Ara]

Except that 3 of those guys have never played TE in college and probably aren't ready to dive into the whole playbook. Blocking is often lacking in young TE's but hopefully Yeatman can take care of that.

Schmidt and Yeatman are juniors, they should know the play book. Both have playing experience, even though limited, and are mainly going to be called upon to block. Rudolph is probably farther ahead as freshman then Ragone was, so I don't think he will struggle as much as Mike did last year. Fauria is a big body, who if need be can come in and block well. Bodies and talent we have. Experience, well we were going to be short on that anyway, even if Ragone didn't get hurt. Is it a big loss? Maybe, but I think we have the players to make up for it.

 

[Junkhead]

Schmidt and Yeatman are juniors, they should know the play book. Both have playing experience, even though limited, and are mainly going to be called upon to block. Rudolph is probably farther ahead as freshman then Ragone was, so I don't think he will struggle as much as Mike did last year. Fauria is a big body, who if need be can come in and block well. Bodies and talent we have. Experience, well we were going to be short on that anyway, even if Ragone didn't get hurt. Is it a big loss? Maybe, but I think we have the players to make up for it.

I hope you are right. Schmidt *should* know the playbook, but he is new at TE.

 

[Freeman Ara]

I hope you are right. Schmidt *should* know the playbook, but he is new at TE.

He should know it better then anybody, he'll be playing FB some too.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

1) Best of luck to Mike and fast recovery

2) Ragone is/ was the fastest

3) Yeatman has much more pressure on his shoulders now

4) We cannot expect Rudolph and Fauria to step in right away and produce as Ragone would have. They are in the same position as Ragone was last year.

Ragone is quicker, stronger, and more experienced than them. You can't put enough emphasis on the experience lost. And Yeatman was not playing spring ball.

I see ND using a lot of Yeatman and Rudolph together but Ragone will be missed

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

I know everyone is concerned about depth and how this affects the season, but can we not forget this young man has had an injury and he is going to have to face a tough year of rehabilitation and the frustration and hurt that comes with sitting on the sidelines for a whole season. I hope we can send him some good wishes to get well soon.

Lets all hope and pray he keeps focus on his studies and getting well during the tough months ahead.

 

[ACamp1900]

But Konrad Rueland wasn't needed... this is where transfers will kill us this year

 

[Golden Domer93]

well said GO IRISH!!!

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I know everyone is concerned about depth and how this affects the season, but can we not forget this young man has had an injury and he is going to have to face a tough year of rehabilitation and the frustration and hurt that comes with sitting on the sidelines for a whole season. I hope we can send him some good wishes to get well soon.

Lets all hope and pray he keeps focus on his studies and getting well during the tough months ahead.

What should we do? Set up a candle light prayer vigil, sit in a circle and sing hymns for him? I'm sure we all feel bad for the kid as he was being heavily counted on to contribute this season. With that said, we go live in 14+ days here fella so I think worrying about the depth chart is a very realistic thing. Injuries are very much a part of the game so let's not over-dramatize the situation, M-Kay???

 

[Freeman Ara]

But Konrad Rueland wasn't needed... this is where transfers will kill us this year

You say this like we had an option on whether he stayed or not. Transfers are what they are, nothing you can do about it.

 

[SoCalDomer]

You say this like we had an option on whether he stayed or not. Transfers are what they are, nothing you can do about it.

i think the first part of what Acamp said was mocking the common response fans have when a player transfers. i didn't look at the archives here, but i imagine many a poster said Reuland wasn't really needed and were ok with him transfering.

 

[Golden Domer93]

Reuland will also be missed.