Immigration

IrishinSyria

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Quite narrow indeed if you're talking about refugees (a few thousand) compared to millions of illegals whisked in by the Biden admin.

Before you criticize the current admin for their policies, you should criticize the previous admin for creating this mess and call it what it was...dereliction of duty. And the sole purpose was to import enough poor people from the third world to create a permanent, long term majority in elections. All in the name of righteousness, caring, and diversity.
I’ll criticize Biden for his early term immigration policies if you criticize Trump for urging Republicans not to pass legislation to fix it because he thought it was a good electoral issue for him (https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi.../trump-border-bill-arizona-visit/74898253007/).

I think the vast majority of Dems would agree Biden mishandled the border in the early part of his term, but it was largely under control by 2024 and were certainly not in the middle of a crisis that requires the relaxing of constitutional rights. Violent crime rates are at historic lows (again, continuing the trend from the end of Biden’s term) and the people ICE is getting have been overwhelmingly good neighbors/family members/etc (of course you can find examples to the contrary but nobody would’ve protesting if ICE was laser focused on those people).
 

drayer54

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I’ll criticize Biden for his early term immigration policies if you criticize Trump for urging Republicans not to pass legislation to fix it because he thought it was a good electoral issue for him (https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi.../trump-border-bill-arizona-visit/74898253007/).
That bill would have codified border traffic and cut Trump's border approach off at the knees. Saying Trump wanted it as a campaign issue is stupid. We already had a campaign issue with Biden's stupidity and he was deep underwater at that point. Some R's agreed to it only because it would slow down the complete insanity from Biden during the border hostage negotiations and was seen as better than nothing. Everyone knew Biden didn't need a bill to fix his own stupidity.
 

Polish Leppy 22

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I’ll criticize Biden for his early term immigration policies if you criticize Trump for urging Republicans not to pass legislation to fix it because he thought it was a good electoral issue for him (https://www.azcentral.com/story/opi.../trump-border-bill-arizona-visit/74898253007/).

I think the vast majority of Dems would agree Biden mishandled the border in the early part of his term, but it was largely under control by 2024 and were certainly not in the middle of a crisis that requires the relaxing of constitutional rights. Violent crime rates are at historic lows (again, continuing the trend from the end of Biden’s term) and the people ICE is getting have been overwhelmingly good neighbors/family members/etc (of course you can find examples to the contrary but nobody would’ve protesting if ICE was laser focused on those people).
R's didn't have control of Congress and White House until Jan of 2025, so Trump's urging of Republicans prior to that on any topic is irrelevant.

"Largely under control by 2024" doesn't erase the damage done from 2021 - 2024, Trump was elected, his biggest issue was immigration, and he's doing what he told people he was going to do.
 

drayer54

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R's didn't have control of Congress and White House until Jan of 2025, so Trump's urging of Republicans prior to that on any topic is irrelevant.

"Largely under control by 2024" doesn't erase the damage done from 2021 - 2024, Trump was elected, his biggest issue was immigration, and he's doing what he told people he was going to do.
Biden didn’t do anything on the border until it was blatantly obvious that he was way underwater on public polling and that was by far his worst issue. Even then, it was patch work. (also proving we didn’t need the bill)
 

drayer54

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Looks like they’re pissed at everyone not just Trump and ICE.


They were who they thought we were.

The left has clarified in this moment where they stand on the border though. Open. Wide open. Biden was what they want. They look at Europe getting flooded and say sign me up. It’s amazing.


All them walls have got to go!
 

Bishop2b5

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624285675_871222445743752_6563838304055217904_n.jpg
 

drayer54

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Fighting for the First, Second, Fourth, Tenth, and Fourteenth Amendments.
Fighting for criminals, no borders in Palestine or Mexico, and resistance to law enforcement from the sound of it. Dems pretending to support 2A rights is comical. It’s not some principled stand when you just reflexively oppose Trump and don’t want the millions you brought in deported. It’s a clown show.


Also- You and Reid Hoffman can enjoy your pedo party.
 
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drayer54

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All of which tumbles along with the rest of this country if it can’t get its shit together.
Right but defending an idiot who happened to be armed should not be confused for fighting for the second amendment. The left would one line that one tomorrow given the opportunity.
 

Bantry19

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I agree and sort of disagree.

I think a country thrives with a sense of national identity and shared values and beliefs with a common love of “country” or its people.

Recently (since the 90s) our values, goals, and identity have shifted. Why? Easy comparison for me.

As early as the 90s we were 80% white, 90% identified as Christian.

Today we are 56% white, maybe but not even 50% identity as Christian.

I’m not thumping my chest promoting Christian nationalism but what this county was even as early as the 90s isn’t what it is now.

So when you say Multiculturalism has not failed and say it’s because we are the world superpower, my response would be that we are a superpower not because of multiculturalism but we are a superpower currently despite a move to multiculturalism. Sure we had immigration before this but not at this level.

We have become tribalistic. And we have becomes tribalistic against the dominant culture… which happens to be and always has been? Yup, you guessed it.

This tribalism is what is eroding this country. People act like Christians or even wypepo are the issue and pulling the country down like we just got here. It’s a culture battle. I honestly think this country is on borrowed time.
I would argue the attitudes of a complacent culture and self segregated upper class, along with the acceleration of wealth to the upper class, has led to the erosion of values, goals, and identity moreso than a decline in a shared identity. I think we’re in an era of comfort level stagnation where we accept good enough.

This shows itself with lower risk-taking and a preference for stability over ambition. Easy access to information has contributed by which quick, surface-level answers (MEMES!) replace sustained learning and critical thinking.

So, how does the widening economic gap between the haves and have nots play into declining dynamism?

Modern daily life has become more insular, shifting away from active, community based participation toward sedentary, inward focused routines. This is not totally unique to the uber wealthy, who insulate out of comfort, while the lower class is likely to insulate out of a lack of resources to go out and participate. Even so, lower class is far more likely to live in multi-generational setting and rely on community for assistance and relationships.

Complacency affects different groups in different ways but shares common roots in comfort and convenience. Those with economic security may become more easily complacent because their needs are met, reducing urgency to strive for more. Then, there’s delayed independence, limited mobility, and avoidance of risk. Across society, people are moving less, switching jobs less frequently, and starting fewer businesses, reinforcing a cycle in which stability is chosen not because it is optimal, but because it is familiar and low-risk.

Meanwhile, complacency affects lower income people through hopelessness. As it become more and more difficult to strap those boots up and reach a higher economic plane (owning a home, starting a family), more and more people feel hopeless and don’t even bother to try.

May be easy to blame people for not trying, but fact of the matter is owning a home is more expensive than ever, going to college is more expensive than ever, and having kids is more expensive than ever by percentages of economic shares. Even those who do buy a house, start a family, perhaps are or reach middle class, have to fight for retention rather than strive for growth.

Just a quick anecdote. I went to a nieces JR High STEM competition this weekend that the Argonne National Laboratory put on in the suburbs of Chicago. Ten schools, 7 or 8 kids competing per school, and I could count on two hands the white kids. Latino, Middle Eastern, and South/Southeast Asian kids dominated. What’s, more, the girls easily outnumbered boys.

I laid out a very brief understanding of Tyler Cowen’s analysis of generations and classes. An antidote to complacency and stagnant growth IS immigration.
 
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Bantry19

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Right but defending an idiot who happened to be armed should not be confused for fighting for the second amendment. The left would one line that one tomorrow given the opportunity.
Absolutely 100% I would. Too many damn guns in the country. Especially guns of destruction that don’t have any place in hunting nor self defense.

But, as long as there’s a Second Amendment, it must be applied without bias.
 

TracyGraham

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Which is exactly what arresting Don Lemon is.
Aren't most against both pedophilia and harrassing people in a church? Do I have to pick one? Should we just stop enforcing all laws until the Epstein case is fully solved? Lemon did what he did on his own volition. Did Trump hypnotize him to violate the FACE act so he could distract from Epstein. What are you even saying?
 

Bantry19

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Isn't everyone against both pedophilia and harrassing people in a church? Do I have to pick one? Should we just stop enforcing all laws until the Epstein case is fully solved?
I don’t know. Kind of hard to tell these days.

People voted for the guy after he was found to have sexually abused a woman. People voted for the guy after 28 woman made credible sexual misconduct allegations.

I question where they draw their line. Especially considering all the other abuse and pedophilia in Magaland.
 

TracyGraham

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I don’t know. Kind of hard to tell these days.

People voted for the guy after he was found to have sexually abused a woman. People voted for the guy after 28 woman made credible sexual misconduct allegations.

I question where they draw their line. Especially considering all the other abuse and pedophilia in Magaland.
But even if you believed it was all a distraction, why would Lemon deserve a standing ovation? Not one person thought to boo? There was complete conformity that he was a hero for entering a church and harassing those people. The parishioners were pure class. Go back and watch the videos. What did the parishioners have to do at all with pedophilia?
All this shows is you guys are living in a completely different reality to think he is deserving of a standing ovation. How were his actions in any way praiseworthy let alone not flat out wrong?
 

Bantry19

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But even if you believed it was all a distraction, why would Lemon deserve a standing ovation? Not one person thought to boo? There was complete conformity that he was a hero for entering a church and harassing those people. The parishioners were pure class. Go back and watch the videos. What did the parishioners have to do at all with pedophilia?
All this shows is you guys are living in a completely different reality to think he is deserving of a standing ovation. How were his actions in any way praiseworthy let alone not flat out wrong?
I don’t know now, I’m not part of the Grammy’s. Didn’t watch the standing ovation nor the church video. I’m not a Don Lemon fan. He’s doing what he needs to do to keep his name relevant. I don’t give him much thought.

Trump’s Epstein issue and his efforts to distract from that issue are just as relevant as Don Lemon’s efforts to keep his name relevant.
 
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